Freedom of Speech or inflammatory?

2015-05-05T18:02:34-04:00

This lone protester is standing outside the suspected gunmen's apartment complex in Texas' cartoon shooting. This picture was taken by a bystander, but because of his shirt, he is getting flack. What do you think?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 6:09 PM

2015-05-05T18:09:25-04:00

You take your chances and I would never do it. But that said, it is heartwarming and it does something to the cockles of my pacemaker. lol. Ok. I have no pacemaker and not sure of the heart either...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 6:10 PM

2015-05-05T18:10:55-04:00

How about "freedom of speech AND inflammatory". It's not an either-or proposition. He's trying to make a scene, which is inflammatory (even though I'm heavily inclined to agree with the sentiment he espouses), but that doesn't make it any less protected speech.

Response by TSgt David Holman made May 5 at 2015 6:10 PM

2015-05-05T18:10:25-04:00

The problem with free speech is this. In America, people have the right to say what they want. It is a constitutionally granted right. That being said, that right doesn't mean what they say is right, or even smart. This probably wasn't the smartest thing for this guy to do, but he was within his rights.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 6:11 PM

2015-05-05T18:11:23-04:00

Who cares? He could have worn a f*** America shirt, and my response would still be:

"Oh look, an idiot. Okay now, what was I doing?"

Response by MSgt Brian Welch made May 5 at 2015 6:15 PM

2015-05-05T18:15:05-04:00

It's both freedom of speech and inflammatory... but I'm ok with it. If the Westbourgh Baptist Church has the constitutional right to stand outside the burial ceremony of a fallen Marine with hate signs like "God hates you" then there really is no moral limit on free speech. It's certainly not for me to pick and choose. I can choose which to acknowledge and support, which to ignore and go on with life, and which might get my dander up enough to take a stand against it.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made May 5 at 2015 6:26 PM

2015-05-05T18:26:04-04:00

It isn't one or the other. He chose to use his freedom of speech in an inflammatory way. If they can burn our flag, and step on our flag, he can certainly wave our flag. Will he get shot for his actions? He is probably more at risk than someone else, but perhaps that is what he is going for. It is like many freedoms that we have. Just because we have a legal right to do something, doesn't mean that we should do something. We can either fight against different groups or work towards getting along together. We each have to decide what world we want to belong to.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 6:30 PM

2015-05-05T18:30:42-04:00

If it's freedom of speech to walk over our flag this is fine by me.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 5 at 2015 6:38 PM

2015-05-05T18:38:04-04:00

Might as well paint a big honking bulls eye on his chest that says "shoot me please"

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 6:41 PM

2015-05-05T18:41:13-04:00

I wouldn't say he was right....but if I saw him, I would honk and give him a big thumbs up

Response by MSgt James Mullis made May 5 at 2015 6:47 PM

2015-05-05T18:47:13-04:00

I bet he ends up on TV.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made May 5 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-05-05T18:53:17-04:00

don't care if it's inflammatory, as long as it pisses them off

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made May 5 at 2015 6:59 PM

2015-05-05T18:59:27-04:00

I believe the person is being inflammatory, just as the person the organized the Muhamed(sp?) cartoon exhibit. These people, in my opinion, are not being patriotic by baiting muslims. I would not burn a nations flag, nor would I desecrate religious icons and holy books.

Response by TSgt Christopher D. made May 5 at 2015 7:05 PM

2015-05-05T19:05:18-04:00

The founders didn't protect speech so we could chat about the weather. They protected speech so even controversial/inflammatory things could be uttered or otherwise expressed without fear of legal reprisal.

Response by SGT Kevin Gardner made May 5 at 2015 7:07 PM

2015-05-05T19:07:47-04:00

Freedom of speech is exactly that, what it is not is Freedom of speech untill you offend someone. If it was we would never have had the Declaration of Independence, ever wonder what the King thought of that? Nope me neither.

Like it or not this is our nation, our ideals our very rights will always conflict with Islam, as the two are incompatible.

For those who say just because you can say or do that doesn't mean you should, forget that say it because freedom of speech wasn't designed to salvage your petite sensibility's.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 7:09 PM

2015-05-05T19:09:48-04:00

I agree with SFC Mark Merino, SPC Private RallyPoint Member. It's freedom of speech AND it's inflammatory.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 7:30 PM

2015-05-05T19:30:32-04:00

Free speech is great but using it to incite hate is ethically and morally wrong. Love the flag waving, especially in light of recent desecration activities however, the shirt is definitely anti-American. All religions and groups have bad apples. We need to continue to strive for tolerance and understanding of our differences but we need first and foremost to be American. The generation of our founding fathers as well as their descendants and past immigrants came here and chose to be American.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made May 5 at 2015 7:30 PM

2015-05-05T19:30:50-04:00

I think the guy is foolish..... Why would you waste your time? First amendment right or not. I don't care who likes my post or not........

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 7:34 PM

2015-05-05T19:34:13-04:00

Yes on both counts. It may be inflammatory but he has the freedom to say it.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 5 at 2015 7:36 PM

2015-05-05T19:36:59-04:00

When ISIS are decapitating people for being Christians, and others for not being Muslim the way ISIS thinks they should, we should set the example for the entire world by being nice.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 7:44 PM

2015-05-05T19:44:30-04:00

Gasoline on fire, IMO. It's his right, yes...but things like this are sometimes simply meant to anger others, vice expressing free speech. If that's the intent, I would have to say that we are bigger than that. Why stoop to their level?

All that said, as SSG Private RallyPoint Member stated, I'd honk in support if I saw him while driving by! Is that right? I don't know, but I certainly agree with his stated views.

Response by BG David Fleming III made May 5 at 2015 7:45 PM

2015-05-05T19:45:25-04:00

In my gut I want to ask where can I buy the shirt? I understand that probably isn't constructive.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 9:45 PM

2015-05-05T21:45:01-04:00

Under the 1st Amendment he is allowed to wear that shirt, no less than someone is allowed to step on the U.S. flag. But like many of our Amendments, I think they are misinterpreted from their original meaning. Just because you can say something doesn't always mean you should or have to. There is no question this was meant to offend, yet he used his constitutional right do do so. I think he just needs to be educated on what he believes is the right thing to do. He can get his message across, and more affectivly might I add, if he were to educate himself on open dialogue. Just my two cents, afforded to me by the 1st Amendment.

Response by SPC Kerstin Janney made May 5 at 2015 9:54 PM

2015-05-05T21:54:34-04:00

Unfortunately we have lost our rights in this country. The only ones you have anymore come with strings attached to politically correct rules.

Personally if this was me, I wouldn't have worn that shirt.....I feel it would have been more effective wearing something else.

Response by SPC Dennis Yaste made May 5 at 2015 10:03 PM

2015-05-05T22:03:15-04:00

Free speech under the 1st Amendment was never meant to protect those who would be offended by it! I take exception with those who believe that just because we can doesn't make it right. Of course it is right! It is our right, our God given right, and that can not be wrong! I would back this young man in a second, with deadly force if need be, if anyone would be incited to violence against him for the fearless free exercise of his right as a citizen of the United States of America. I once took a solemn oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Be advised that no one has ever relieved me of my duties under this oath!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 5 at 2015 10:16 PM

2015-05-05T22:16:24-04:00

Isn't inflammatory speech the whole point? If we all agreed with each other and everything was all hand holding and kumbaya, the concept of "freedom of speech" would be pointless. Inflammatory speech is specifically WHY we need the freedom to say it. Everything is inflammatory to someone...

Response by CPT Jack Durish made May 5 at 2015 10:32 PM

2015-05-05T22:32:20-04:00

He is alone on the street but not alone in his belief and therein lies the issue.

Like every other religion, Islam does not come in one flavor.

Should all of Christianity be judged by the actions of the members of the Westboro Baptist Chruch?

Thus, I suppose, the individual right to Freedom of Speech applies, but ultimately everyone must take responsibility for the manner in which they wield that sword as individuals.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 10:47 PM

2015-05-05T22:47:13-04:00

I find it disturbing that the media and everyone else is focusing on the judgement of Pamela Geller instead of the two men that brought AK's with intent on killing people. I think she made a good point by saying Christians don't like when Jesus Christ is depicted in a distasteful way but they dont go out and kill or attempt to kill the one's responsible. Yes it may have been inflammatory, but It goes to show that Islam is incompatible with the US constitution. I dont want anyone to loose their mind. This is just my opinion.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2015 10:47 PM

2015-05-05T22:47:22-04:00

It's both

Response by SFC Gary Comstock made May 6 at 2015 4:57 AM

2015-05-06T04:57:46-04:00

God bless this man. He is in every right to do this. So what if people are giving him flack, just means he is doing it right.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 6:09 AM

2015-05-06T06:09:14-04:00

He has the right to do this but why? Does this really solve anything. Is this going to reflect well on him or anyone else. We all live in a community. If we intentionally put up walls and alienate some what do we think is going to happen? Does he think he is really helping anything? If it said to F--- Terrorists then I wouldn't have an issue but I think he is doing harm than good.

Response by Sgt Nick Marshall made May 6 at 2015 7:00 AM

2015-05-06T07:00:58-04:00

Would you be upset if he wore a shirt saying f#%^ Christianity?

Response by PO1 Jason Taylor made May 6 at 2015 8:28 AM

2015-05-06T08:28:02-04:00

We put our life's on the line for freedom of speech, that the public chooses to do with it is on them! We do not have to like it!

Response by MSgt Rob Weston made May 6 at 2015 9:06 AM

2015-05-06T09:06:29-04:00

I'll put it this way... Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom from Consequence of that Speech. Some will be for some will be against, but all should respect. Now that the PC answer was given....

I have no issues with this

Response by SFC Jeff L. made May 6 at 2015 9:09 AM

2015-05-06T09:09:46-04:00

Protected speech and inflammatory. So? And to all the people who come forward on threads like these to defend muslims, I say - Let them defend themselves. That is, rather than make excuses for muslims in general by saying things like "not all muslims are bad" (of which we are all aware), let them speak up themselves and decry radicalism, proclaim their own peaceful ways, join this man in waving the flag of their new nation, assimilate into their new society, rather than give tacit approval by their silence.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 10:22 AM

2015-05-06T10:22:54-04:00

It is indeed freedom of speech and it is also indeed inflammatory. That being said it is not illegal unless his speech or actions are directed to inciting, and is likely to incite, imminent lawless action. My feelings are that if someone can burn flags, curse police in their face and expect no reciprocation, spit on soldiers in the airport returning from war and praise the violent actions of a person in the name of whatever religion it is that they worship here in the United States, then this guy can do what he is doing. You have a choice to ignore it if you don't like it.

Response by SGT Curtis Earl made May 6 at 2015 12:00 PM

2015-05-06T12:00:56-04:00

He is free to protest, no matter how misguided he may seem. But his shirt is extremely inappropriate. I am really disappointed he chose to wave my flag wearing such hideous shirt.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 6 at 2015 12:10 PM

2015-05-06T12:10:39-04:00

I think that is how most Americans feel.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-05-06T17:02:15-04:00

I see this as no different than what Westboro or any other group says. But people want to talk crap because it says Islam on it. Who cares? Let him say his piece. Just like we do with everyone else. It's Freedom of Speech. We as a nation and as a military forget that our freedom of speech was meant to be protect things like this. Not just the nice stuff. If you can't understand that then why did you take the Oath? And why are you living in the U.S. ? I'm not saying this to tread on anyone else opinion, as this is mine. And as such it's protected by the same Amendment that protects this guy.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made May 6 at 2015 5:48 PM

2015-05-06T17:48:24-04:00

The shirt states how he feel about Islam. That is his "right" and regardless what we feel about it, it is cover by the 1st Amendment,thanks to the US Supreme Court.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Bly made May 7 at 2015 8:34 AM

2015-05-07T08:34:11-04:00

I see someone waving the American Flag as comforting. The shirt in combination is intended to incite feelings in people to whatever ends they may be.

Islam is not the problem. Radicals, however, are a problem. And every religious and political affiliation has them.

If people are so concerned, why aren't more people flying flags and showing their support for America?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-05-07T09:54:29-04:00

I truly believe it is Free Speech. This country was built on being able to say what you believe without fear of repercussion.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made May 7 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-05-07T11:09:37-04:00

It is morally wrong to me. But yes freedom of speech. Just as much as walking on the flag is morally wrong but freedom of speech. I don't think either shows Americans as smart people. It shows us as ignorant idiots that believe in freedoms...but only if they work for our personal beliefs. Freedom of speech and religion are two of the things our founding fathers wanted us to have. Not because we are awesome, but because to have a country by, for, and of the people you need to have every person have a voice. And you need to not say one person is better than the other due to religion or whatever. You need to have a country that gives a person the right to say FU to the president and not be dead within hours. The problem is everyone is not thinking for the people but instead they are tied up in politics and personal feelings. What has that guy above done to help America? He is holding a flag that to him represents America, yet he is rubbing a giant turd in its face by wearing a idiotic t-shirt that is inflammatory and against the same freedom that gives him the right to say that. Do you think this guy is what the founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the constitution? Do you think they thought people would be walking on the flag that represents the very country and beliefs that give them the right to walk on it? I believe these people are idiots. I think if people actually understood that the flag represents that they might instead of walking on it hold it up high as they protested. That would be using the rights and not pissing on them at the same time. I believe that if a guy wants to say if you mess with the bull you get the horns then say that but holding a flag and saying a specific religion is whatever and not welcome is again pissing on the very thing you are holding.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made May 7 at 2015 11:46 AM

2015-05-07T11:46:04-04:00

I am reminded of Walter Matthau in First Monday in October regarding a "F*CK THE WHITE HOUSE" t-shirt (or some such)
"Since the act can not be accomplished it can not be assault, therefor it is protected speech"

Response by MSG Morgan Fiszel, CPCM, CFCM made May 7 at 2015 12:11 PM

2015-05-07T12:11:33-04:00

It fuels a fire that doesn't need fueling. If you are so uneducated or unaware that you believe the issue is with Islam or Muslims then you seriously need to check yourself. There are better ways for a group of people to fix any alleged issue. Every religion and every culture has extremists. The KKK would go to town if able.

Response by 1SG Jason Smith made May 7 at 2015 4:37 PM

2015-05-07T16:37:04-04:00

The National Endowment for the Arts gave money to an artist that put a crucifix of Jesus in a glass of urine and to another artist that displayed the Virgin Mary surrounded by dung. How is this mans shirt any less an expression of Art or free speech than those so called artists? Double standard in society. I am not saying his t-shirt is art. I am simply asking where is the line supposed to be drawn on what is considered free speech? Of course you can't yell fire in a movie theater. But it is acceptable to stomp on an the American Flag?

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made May 17 at 2015 9:28 AM

2015-05-17T09:28:41-04:00

The flag part i'm fine with, but his shirt is not ok. For example, if we fighting korea right now, i don't want a protester or anyone wearing a shirt saying " f*** Korea".

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made May 24 at 2015 11:07 PM

2015-05-24T23:07:18-04:00

At least he isn't burning down something.

Response by SrA Daniel Hunter made May 24 at 2015 11:40 PM

2015-05-24T23:40:40-04:00

It could be both. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to do it. It also doesn't mean he is protected from people giving him flack for it. They are exercising the same right he is.

Response by SGT John Rauch made Oct 13 at 2015 3:44 PM

2015-10-13T15:44:12-04:00

yes.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 13 at 2015 3:51 PM

2015-10-13T15:51:24-04:00

I believe it all comes down to a corrupt government throwing out double standards and choosing to look the other way with this group of people and not for this group of people, just out of convenience to the Government and whats on the politically correct menu of the day. Looking back through history the government has always had double standards just as the US ARMY has double standards with its USAREUR regulations that they use when they want but resort back to ARMY Regulations when it suits their needs, saw it many times while stationed there... Sorry son, USAREUR regs supersedes Army Regs... oh except for that situation then it goes back to ARMY REG, unless its dealing with this then it..... Very confusing...

Response by CPT(P) David Thorp made Oct 16 at 2015 11:59 PM

2015-10-16T23:59:30-04:00

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2015 12:08 AM

2015-10-17T00:08:05-04:00

as distasteful as it may be, it is freedom of expression.

Response by PVT Roger Delgadillo made Jul 6 at 2022 11:23 PM

2022-07-06T23:23:10-04:00

Freedom of speech

Response by Sgt Joel Pedaline made Jul 27 at 2022 6:36 PM

2022-07-27T18:36:46-04:00

It's a viewpoint, nothing more. Do I agree with him? NO but that doesn't make his opinion wrong

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 1 at 2022 10:33 PM

2022-10-01T22:33:28-04:00

Both. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Response by SSG Steve Knox made Dec 30 at 2022 11:07 AM

2022-12-30T11:07:39-05:00

The truth in a man's heart is seen through his actions. It's every man's choice to reveal the truth in his heart whether there are consequences or not.