Posted on May 17, 2015
General Odierno's awards are backwards/out of order. (Do you see it?)
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Responses: 10
Let any one of you who is without fault be the cast the first stone.
All of us, I am sure, have had things wrong on our uniform, despite our checking and rechecking. None of us intend to look bad. None of us, not even senior leaders, are perfect.
The CSA has many photos taken, so there are plenty more opportunities for him to be wrong.
Whenever I had a photo taken, for official purposes, I had someone check me; like a 1SG or CSM.
I remember when we first got ACUs, my kids used to move the stuff around. So, one day I missed there shenanigans before I went to work... I was a LTC briefing a bunch brand new 2LTs, and everything on my ACUs was reversed. Luckily, one of the LTs told me...
None of us want to be or look ate up.
All of us, I am sure, have had things wrong on our uniform, despite our checking and rechecking. None of us intend to look bad. None of us, not even senior leaders, are perfect.
The CSA has many photos taken, so there are plenty more opportunities for him to be wrong.
Whenever I had a photo taken, for official purposes, I had someone check me; like a 1SG or CSM.
I remember when we first got ACUs, my kids used to move the stuff around. So, one day I missed there shenanigans before I went to work... I was a LTC briefing a bunch brand new 2LTs, and everything on my ACUs was reversed. Luckily, one of the LTs told me...
None of us want to be or look ate up.
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MAJ (Join to see)
AR 670-1?
"Applicability. This regulation applies to the Active Army, the Army National Guard/Army National Guard of the United States, and the U.S. Army Reserve, unless otherwise stated. In addition, it applies to the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps and the Corps of Cadets, United States Military Academy, only when their respective uniform regulations do not include sufficient guidance or instruction. It does not apply to the Chief of Staff of the Army,
or former Chiefs of Staff of the Army, each of whom may prescribe his or her own uniform. Portions of this regulation are punitive. Violation of the specific prohibitions and requirements of specific portions by Soldiers may result in adverse administrative and/or charges under the Uniform Code of Military Justice."
"Applicability. This regulation applies to the Active Army, the Army National Guard/Army National Guard of the United States, and the U.S. Army Reserve, unless otherwise stated. In addition, it applies to the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps and the Corps of Cadets, United States Military Academy, only when their respective uniform regulations do not include sufficient guidance or instruction. It does not apply to the Chief of Staff of the Army,
or former Chiefs of Staff of the Army, each of whom may prescribe his or her own uniform. Portions of this regulation are punitive. Violation of the specific prohibitions and requirements of specific portions by Soldiers may result in adverse administrative and/or charges under the Uniform Code of Military Justice."
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Isn't this discussion irrelevant according to the following from AR 670-1?
"Applicability. This regulation applies to the Active Army, the Army National Guard/Army National Guard of the United States, and the U.S. Army Reserve, unless otherwise stated. In addition, it applies to the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps and the Corps of Cadets, United States Military Academy, only when their respective uniform regulations do not include sufficient guidance or instruction. It does not apply to the Chief of Staff of the Army,
or former Chiefs of Staff of the Army, each of whom may prescribe his or her own uniform. Portions of this regulation are punitive. Violation of the specific prohibitions and requirements of specific portions by Soldiers may result in adverse administrative and/or charges under the Uniform Code of Military Justice."
"Applicability. This regulation applies to the Active Army, the Army National Guard/Army National Guard of the United States, and the U.S. Army Reserve, unless otherwise stated. In addition, it applies to the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps and the Corps of Cadets, United States Military Academy, only when their respective uniform regulations do not include sufficient guidance or instruction. It does not apply to the Chief of Staff of the Army,
or former Chiefs of Staff of the Army, each of whom may prescribe his or her own uniform. Portions of this regulation are punitive. Violation of the specific prohibitions and requirements of specific portions by Soldiers may result in adverse administrative and/or charges under the Uniform Code of Military Justice."
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SGM (Join to see)
As this is a public photo, I would consider this something that can be discussed professionally. And I presume this wasnt an intentional uniform modification.
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SSG (Join to see)
MAJ Jager,You assume a lot with your claim about senior NCOs. Could it be that some consider this common knowledge since we live in AR 670-1 and not really worth the comment. I consider it as a question I would ask new troops during in ranks. I would never assume a general populace didn't know something based off lack off answers. I could say it is telling that a field grade officer is border line condescending with their comments, but I wont because it would be wrong ;)
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SFC (Join to see)
Telling who commented so far on this trivia? We could also say it's very telling that every time an officer sets up a uniform or takes a photo they ask a Senior NCO to go over it for them. Yet I can't recall ever seeing an officer asked to help square away an NCO or Soldiers uniform. Im sure somewhere it's probably happened, but not that I've ever seen.
Now back to the topic. The original observation was that awards were backwards on the CSA's photo. In other words the "order of precedence" is incorrect, not the spacing, location, or manner of wear. The brilliant observation that AR 670-1 doesn't apply to the CSA is completely invalid. AR670-1 governs the wear of the uniform and placement of awards on the uniform. (All the real info is in the DA PAM 670-1) It does state the order of precedence, however the actual order of precedence is set by an executive order or from congress when the award is created in an act part of those source documents dictates where each award falls in the hierarchy of military awards, that info is collated for us in AR 600-8-22 Military Awards; which conveniently does not have that little disclaimer everyone is so happy to copy paste here. Since the order of precedence is dictated by executive order or an act of congress yes even the CSA is covered by that. Now if he wants to wear his awards with different spacing or location on the uniform, mix and match accessories or choose to wear or not wear pieces of the uniform mandated in 670-1 then that of course is his perogative as CSA that sets his own uniform.
but congrats on reading at least one page of an AR, it's a good start.
Now back to the topic. The original observation was that awards were backwards on the CSA's photo. In other words the "order of precedence" is incorrect, not the spacing, location, or manner of wear. The brilliant observation that AR 670-1 doesn't apply to the CSA is completely invalid. AR670-1 governs the wear of the uniform and placement of awards on the uniform. (All the real info is in the DA PAM 670-1) It does state the order of precedence, however the actual order of precedence is set by an executive order or from congress when the award is created in an act part of those source documents dictates where each award falls in the hierarchy of military awards, that info is collated for us in AR 600-8-22 Military Awards; which conveniently does not have that little disclaimer everyone is so happy to copy paste here. Since the order of precedence is dictated by executive order or an act of congress yes even the CSA is covered by that. Now if he wants to wear his awards with different spacing or location on the uniform, mix and match accessories or choose to wear or not wear pieces of the uniform mandated in 670-1 then that of course is his perogative as CSA that sets his own uniform.
but congrats on reading at least one page of an AR, it's a good start.
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SGM (Join to see)
Rgr, his uniform is so high vis (in the public eye a lot) Im just surprised it was overlooked. Awards are a big discriminator on DA boards, Id just make sure yours are correct! And whats telling is when a senior leader appreciates the keen eye of an NCO who can make a swift correction to enforce standards, vice a leadership approach of negativity - erroneous at that.
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I would like to point out, that in this particular photo he was the Commander of JFCOM and not the CSA. You can tell by the presence of the JFCOM badge on his pocket between the Army staff badge and his FWS SSI badge. The Combatant CMD and Functional CMD badges are only authorized while assigned to that command and therfore sets the timeline. Instead of just reading AR 670-1, open PAM 670-1 as well and AR 6008-22. Personally I just let it go but yes, he would be in violation of AR.
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