Given the many posts about saluting Jr. Officers, what does/should it tell a 2nd Lt. (when he/she must return that salute) about their place?

Maj John Bell — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 16:21:44 -0400

Every time I returned a salute, it was a reminder of my responsibilities to every subordinate. For those who don't like saluting junior officers, it may help if you try to view it as reminding that young officer of their responsibility.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2017 4:45 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 16:45:17 -0400

Maj John Bell it "should" tell them that they are the low man on the totem pole. That, while yes they are officers of the military, they are just entering into said military, and owe it to the ranks above them to render the respect said higher rank deserves.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 18 at 2017 5:23 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 17:23:16 -0400

Junior officers should be honored that their being saluted, it means they earned that priviledge, it shows a sign of respect for their rank. When enlisted see them saluting senior officers that shows that the jr. officer is being respectful to his higher ups, and it should a sign to enlisted to be of like mind to any officer.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Aug 19 at 2017 9:52 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sat, 19 Aug 2017 09:52:14 -0400

Don't know if times changed, but as a newbie Ensign, I saluted anything because I didn't want to screw up or garner unnecessary attention. Even then, if you told me the O-4 was returning my salute out of respect, many sure as hell didn't act like they respected anything. Notions of high end values when you're a kid don't tend to compute. It was just something that was done. My wife quickly learned to walk on my left side to avoid the rapid fire arm. Years later, it was funny visiting West Point where you could see the walking patterns by both Cadets and Officers vary to minimize the saluting opportunities. Looked like a wallflower convention at the prom.

Response by Sgt Jim H. made Aug 19 at 2017 11:51 AM

Sgt Jim H. — Sat, 19 Aug 2017 11:51:09 -0400

Maj John Bell, I’m curious; how did you feel when a junior failed to initiate a salute to you? Did you take it personally? Did you believe it was a sign that that junior was implying that you were not worthy of your commission? Or, did you just assume some junior was just not paying attention to his surroundings?
You mentioned not seeing posts on RP where officers complain about saluting juniors or for those matter seniors. I’m sure you haven’t, just as there was not much complaining from the Lords about the feudal system. Officers are the beneficiaries of the salute and therefore don’t have the same perspective as an enlisted person. I’ve heard the justification for the salute, mutual respect and all that. But, as a former enlisted man I can tell you that’s not what it means to most enlisted personnel. It’s degrading, not the most degrading thing that could ever happen; but, on at least a microscopic level, degrading and it builds resentment.
Of course, not all salutes were the same.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Aug 19 at 2017 12:33 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sat, 19 Aug 2017 12:33:35 -0400

Sorry, had to chuckle a bit. As a fresh caught Ensign, I saluted anything lest I get "corrected". CPOs would smile at me when they saluted knowing I was new. I'm a Mustang so would always say "Good morning Chief" or similar. I made it a point to return salutes to ENLs properly because I remembered how I was (mis) treated as an ENL. Saluting seniors was a mixed bag. So many O-4s that really wished you weren't there so they wouldn't be bothered with returning a salute. So I guess my feelings have morphed over the years. One thing I did notice. My salutes were more deliberate and responsive as I rose in rank. Never too busy to spend a moment acknowledging juniors. That brief contact helps remember names to the faces. And it gives a moment for that compliment to percolate up. My chuckles surround my brief time at USMA where we Cadets would have different traffic patterns than the upperclassmen and officers to avoid having to damage the rotator cuff. When I visited West Point when I was an O-6, I laughed more. I could see the tradition of the Cadets continuing but noted the officers had their purposeful pattern too. Looked like a wallflower convention at the prom.

Response by SP5 Norman McGill made Aug 19 at 2017 4:23 PM

SP5 Norman McGill — Sat, 19 Aug 2017 16:23:18 -0400

A officer is an officer junior or senior. Why would you salute a Major and not a Lieutenant?

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 20 at 2017 2:58 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 20 Aug 2017 14:58:59 -0400

It tells them that they are an Officer in the United States Military and that they automatically glean a certain amount of respect based on their position and theat they should cary themselves proudly and respectfully while remaining humble in their person!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2017 12:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 12:39:30 -0400

It should tell them I know how to follow the rules...

Maj John Bell - I've read your take on the salute, and I respect that it held a much deeper meaning to you. I'd imagine this also came through in your leadership style as well. However, to the average enlisted Service Member, I very much doubt they will ever see it from your perspective, and the reason being that actions speak louder than other actions... There have been very FEW officers in my short career so far that I have felt your described type of "salute contract" with. Granted, it could just be confirmation bias causing my memories to ignore all of the neutral experiences I have had in-passing.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2017 6:03 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:03:54 -0400

One of my better Commanders once said to me "Weav, if all the respect I've earned from you can be summed up with some silly hand gesture... then you can keep it."

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made Aug 31 at 2017 6:06 PM

TSgt Tommy Amparano — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:06:15 -0400

Gawd if you have to justify why an officer must salute back, they shouldn't be an officer.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Aug 31 at 2017 6:59 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:59:07 -0400

According to his biography, Christy Puller, after observing a new lieutenant receiving multiple salutes from an enlisted man without returning them, asked the young lieutenant what was going on. The young lieutenant replied that the enlisted man had failed to salute him, and he was correcting the breach of military courtesy. General Puller advised him that he was exactly correct, military courtesies must be adhered to. He then told the young lieutenant that every salute must be returned, and to get busy returning those salutes.

Response by MAJ Albert McCaig made Aug 31 at 2017 10:57 PM

MAJ Albert McCaig — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 22:57:40 -0400

I guess I really am old school. To this day I find myself saluting people I respect as part of my greeting. Granted, those civilian salutes are not near parade ground, compared to when I salute for the National Anthem. I like to salute and always have. What's the deal? It is so easy to do.

Response by Sgt Mike Jacobi made Dec 24 at 2018 3:06 AM

Sgt Mike Jacobi — Mon, 24 Dec 2018 03:06:34 -0500

Saluting a 2nd Lt, emphasizes the fact that responsibilities run both up and down. Considering the NCO he returns the salute to may be crucial to his staying alive in combat tomorrow, that Lt would be well advised to return that salute crisply

Response by SSG Rob Lawrence made Mar 26 at 2021 10:32 AM

SSG Rob Lawrence — Fri, 26 Mar 2021 10:32:41 -0400

I am not sure a lot of veterans realize it, but if you are a veteran, saluting during the playing of the National Anthem is now accepted. Due to the fact I am retired from the IS Army I salute during the National Anthem even while in civilian clothing. So if you see an old guy rendering a snappy salute during the playing of the National anthem, it might be me.