Giving out awards even when people failed in their role?

2014-04-09T11:35:04-04:00

Picture this: You are in final formation and someone gets called up and receives an ARCOM. As you listen to the citation you realize that they are being awarded for the very thing that they failed to do and you had to hurry up and make it happen. They were getting an award for what you did. Picture this: You are in final formation and someone gets called up and receives an ARCOM. As you listen to the citation you realize that they are being awarded for the very thing that they failed to do. The mission was a failure and they did not plan properly. Both have happened to me and it made me question is the award system broke or the leaders that are approving these awards? Are people just entitled to awards for showing up to annual training now and because they are a certain rank they get a certain award? Or are leaders out of touch with reality and handing out awards to those who do not deserve it and neglecting those who do?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 11:42 AM

2014-04-09T11:42:37-04:00

I have had this happen to me as well, Sir. In truth, it does bother me, but not becuase the lack of recognition that I felt I should have gotten, but because that awardee was being applauded for someone else's efforts. That sets a precedent and teaches SMs that it's not only acceptable to take credit and abuse subordinates efforts, but encourages it.

It falls heavily on the recommender. If they recommend someone for an award, they need to know what exactly was done, not just the result.

This happens A LOT at the end of deployment award ceremonies, where some leaders who accomplish little throughout their deployment while their subordinates work thier asses off in all kinda of unforgiving environments. The leaders are given bronze stars and the e4 is given an aam becuase his rank isn't "high enough" to earn anything more.

Cliffs: yes Sir, the award system is garbage/broken.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 11:47 AM

2014-04-09T11:47:22-04:00

Side question: Should all Soldiers get an award for end of tour, PCS, and end of deployment?

Response by SSG Jeffrey Spencer made Apr 9 at 2014 2:08 PM

2014-04-09T14:08:37-04:00

It happens.  I avoided a major accident while driving a loaded Army bus.  I also jumped out to assist the injured driver and passenger ejected from the rolled truck.  I was shin deep in diesel fuel flowing out, evacuated the injured to a safe distance and performed first aid.
 
When reported to my commander, he refused to nominate me stating "That's what I expect from a soldier."
 
Yet the same commander gave an ARCOM to someone who was on guard duty and nabbed a thief.  That's why you're on guard duty!
 
Leadership itself is not the problem, but the lack of good leader qualities.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 9 at 2014 2:46 PM

2014-04-09T14:46:02-04:00

Very little pisses me off more than the Army awards system.  I have filed 2 IG complaints in my career and both have been about awards.  Every single place I have gone, awards were determined by grade, not achievement.  It infuriates me!!!!!!

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 28 at 2014 7:29 PM

2014-06-28T19:29:28-04:00

Picture this: An O-4 (so not me) receiving an MSM for narrating a GO change of command ceremony and their boss an O-5 receiving one for organizing it. I sh!t you not this is a true story.

Ever hear an entire HQ murmur W-T-F in formation, in unison?

Response by MAJ JohnK Wright, V made Jun 28 at 2014 10:25 PM

2014-06-28T22:25:49-04:00

I did not like the award system either. Sometimes you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. My LT time was up in an Engineer Battalion and I was moving across post for a Staff job (I was actually a 1LT to be going into an 04 billet). The person I was replacing was doing that job, but getting close to CPT and did not have troup time.
At this time, we got a new Bn Cdr. I was basically told that although I was deserving of an award for the time I served, he was not going to use his "assigned allotment of awards" for someone leaving his command. I think units had a certain number of awards they could give out in a year. I thought
it was grossly unfair, but shrugged it off.
I went to my next assignment, got promoted to CPT and before I left for my EOAC, I received 2 ARCOMS. One was for helping to coordinate logistical support for a JTF Exercise. The second organization valued my service and dedication.
I was the same Officer in both units. I guess one organization felt differently.
When I became a Company Commander for 17 months, I tried to be fair with awards. I did not like to submit awards for soldiers just doing their job (or bare minimum). I did not have a quota system in my Battalion. Go figure..

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 28 at 2014 11:03 PM

2014-06-28T23:03:29-04:00

if you fail to fail you have succeeded - you're doing your job, no award

if you fail to succeed you have failed - no award

if you successfully fail then your failure was successful - award for merit

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 6:36 AM

2014-06-29T06:36:52-04:00

LTC Private RallyPoint Member to answer your side question, awards can be given for, PCS, achievement(such as impact) or service so yes, I believe awards should be given at the end of tour, deployment or PCS. It is a way to recognize a Soldier for all of the accomplishments that are ABOVE and BEYOND their scope of duties. The real issue is how often Soldier are out in for awards and the write up sounds like your reading their job description! They didn't do anything above and beyond but yet someone wrote them an award. Commanders need to have the intestinal fortitude and hold the line. Commanders need to downgrade or disapprove poorly written awards, make that recommender write something that shows merit!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 6:51 AM

2014-06-29T06:51:22-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member it's a sad fact, although one that no commander will ever admit to. Rank has a factor in the awards approval process. It shouldn't, but it does. It can't be proven, but the statistics don't lie. In all my years as an S1, I can tell you I have processed over a thousand awards in various units across the Army. MSM and above are rarely ever submitted for SSG and below (including 2LT and 1LT). It seems CPT and above and SFC and above is the line for MSM. It was explained to me (unsuccessfully) that it had to do with the level of responsibility and impact of performance. Many commanders refuse to believe that SSG and below actually held enough responsibility to warrant that level of an award. And if you present that SSG or 2LT with an MSM, then what level should his supervisor receive? A BSM or LOM? My response was, why should the supervisor automatically get a higher award just based on what the subordinate received? I know of a CPT that was so angry that he received an ARCOM, that after the ceremony he left the award behind upon departure. He told my clerk to "keep it, I don't want it". His supervisor (O4) felt it was disrespectful that a CPT should receive the same level award as a SPC in our unit. I think it just shows how much (or how little) work he actually accomplished in the eyes of the commander.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2014 4:04 AM

2014-07-09T04:04:42-04:00

I was nominated for a Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal for the accomplishments as a Platoon Sergeant back in 2009 during cold mountain warfare training and it was denied, not even bumped down because I had made a mistake. That mistake was reporting that all serialized weapons, optics, lasers etc were accounted for of my 60+ Marines after a night movement in the snow when one of my men's PEQ-15 fell off his rifle. From then on out to include today, I do things by the numbers after any major operation, movement, etc to ensure everything is accounted for and never taking individuals words as 100%. That simple trust in my men cost me a NAM but I learned and I always tell myself to trust but verify. Awarding those who fail is a no go, it's only enabling bad behavior.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 2:41 PM

2014-11-06T14:41:57-05:00

CPT Maurelli--sure! The BROKEN SABER or BENT PROPELLER or some such for the most bone-headed thing of the week to try and use humor as a motivator. Whatever floats your cork.

On the other hand, if you believe an award is undeserved and you have facts to back it up, perhaps you have a moral and legal imperative to speak up. What the Award God giveth, the Award God can taketh away...just like stars, bars, and stripes. I know of several cases where that happened. That is not to second guess an awards board of the nominator, but hey, sometimes things get buy. I mean BY.

I really hate everybody buttons. Not a fan of 15 AAMs either. And I don't even like the mentality of perhaps getting your highest award at retirement like its a gold watch. I can hock the watch like people are selling my coins!

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 2:42 PM

2014-11-06T14:42:28-05:00

CPT Maurelli, I have had my entire NCOER plagiarized by a Navy Chief who took credit for everything I did in one DOD assignment. I got promoted and so did he. How's that for truth, honor, justice, and the American way?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 4:35 PM

2014-11-06T16:35:08-05:00

It is the recommender for the award that is the issue. They are either oblivious to what is going on, or buddy's with the awardee and therefore want to see them succeed.

I was Distinguished Honor Grad of my ALC class and got 2 COA's from the school house, and an AAM from my unit. I think it should have been more, but I am not complaining. At least I was recognized for it. The biggest slap in the face is people that get 300's on their PT test are getting AAMs as well. At least the new command team I have stopped 300 APFT AAMs, which warms my heart to hear.

Response by SPC Todd Hanson made Nov 6 at 2014 6:41 PM

2014-11-06T18:41:48-05:00

My PCS award was a AAM for three years in Alaska for being the IMO and Milpay clerk my BC said E-4 below only get AAM all based on grade not achievements.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 7:45 PM

2014-11-06T19:45:18-05:00

Not cool. Just as bad as 999Ms getting promoted after you've busted your a** for two years to get f%%c*&ng g#d@mn$d promotion list.

Whew. *deep breaths*

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 8:48 PM

2014-11-06T20:48:00-05:00

This will never change the enlisted will always get the lesser award than an officer. Everytime I deploy my platoon leaders got bronze stars and squad leaders, the ones that do all the work got AAM'S or an AR COM if we were lucky. As long as officers are always the approving Officials the system will never change.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2014 12:31 AM

2014-11-07T00:31:04-05:00

LTC Private RallyPoint Member You know, us losers need love too!! :) lol

Response by SFC Melker Johansson made Nov 7 at 2014 9:57 AM

2014-11-07T09:57:29-05:00

I'm a still a little annoyed that my NCOIC got the Driver's Badge because she was officially assigned to the vehicle I maintained and operated. I did all the work and she got the badge instead of me. Oh, well.

Response by PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith made Nov 7 at 2014 10:23 AM

2014-11-07T10:23:38-05:00

I knew a paper pusher e-4 who had 3 JSAMs and 4 NAMs before his third year in the Navy. That was in 2002. I gave up on the award system years ago.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2014 6:05 PM

2014-11-07T18:05:26-05:00

The system sometimes rewards those it loves regardless of their productivity. This is just as old as the world is.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2016 7:39 PM

2016-03-07T19:39:35-05:00

I have been in similar situations where a soldier received an award that by far was not deserved, the person who accomplished the mission that the other couldn't did not receive this award that was well deserved. I think the leadership in some situations pick their favorites and pretty much just screw the rest. It is sad when you can no longer have that bond of trust with your leadership when things like this happen.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Mar 7 at 2016 9:05 PM

2016-03-07T21:05:41-05:00

I think that the entire award system is a joke. A Marine NCO that I used to work with told me that the Army gave out so many medals that they must come in cereal boxes. That has not always been the case but it sure seems to be today. I don't blame anyone for taking one if it is offered but when everyone gets a medal it becomes sort of meaningless.

Response by Capt Michael Greene made Apr 26 at 2016 1:31 AM

2016-04-26T01:31:36-04:00

The higher commander doesn't know what happened, s/he just knows what the writer wrote on the recommendation.
I once received an USAF COM two years late. Everyone in my CoC had left, and the paperwork was found behind a file cabinet after a new CC rearranged the office.
Related: I recognize a couple of unpopular but sometimes reasonable facts: First, the award is only partly about the individual. Mostly, it provides an opportunity for the command to show everybody an example of desired behavior. "See this, hear this citation. That's the behavior we want you to emulate." So sometimes, dirtbags get awards because their TEAM did something good.
Also, there's an unpopular reality: There's a theory that if the worker bees did good, then the guy in charge of the worker bees had an even bigger responsibility, and deserves a bigger award. Sometimes that's true, sometimes not.

Response by SPC Kenneth Koerperich made Apr 26 at 2016 7:05 AM

2016-04-26T07:05:25-04:00

Chaps my ass! Active duty it happened all the time, but the worst was while in the Reserves, serving w/ 349th Gen Hospital. AT normally 14 - 16 days. For me it was 22 days. I was assigned to help w/ the weapons movement, as I was recently out of Active w/ a CIB, knew a lot of the armorers job, so I was tasked to assist. Did all that in the first 3 days before the rest of the unit arrived to the AT site. Then, again, due to my CIB, I was tasked to prep/plan, & brief the Bn. Col. on what security & patrol measures needed to be done, as the "mission" called for: Arrive to blah blah destination(some made up "hostile" zone), minus all support. Be self sufficient & get the Hospital up & running in 2 days. So I did all this, gave the briefing to Bn Col. & to the Gen. of the Hospital that decided to tag along & see how it was handled.

Needless to say, I was informed by the Cpt. & 1Sgt. that I had impressed. Self back pats.

End of AT, the unit held an awards ceremony. WEELLLLL! the armorer got an ARCOM for the quick moving of all the Bn's weapons/supplies, full accountability, and the "NEW" sign out procedures. LMFAO! It was everything I! showed him to do, to make things go smoother, that I had learned while ACTIVE.

Then, another ARCOM was handed out, to the Sgt. of the GUARD detail, for the nice maps & briefing given to the Col & Gen. Again, LMFAO, I did all the work, INCLUDING giving the flipping briefing, & making the "Roster" for the Security detail needed until the "support" units of MP's/Inf arrived to take over.

All I got was an Atta-boy w/ a 99cent medal attached to it. Then a bunch of ARCOM's were handed out to SM's for just doing their stupid jobs. I went above & beyond, working 18 hour days, ran the Sec Detail, & assisted the 1Sgt in staffing the Hospital/Sec detail w/o any over lap or loss of staff.

Yet I got nothing for it in essence. What a bummer....

Just makes me wonder how things like these are decided.

Response by SGT Keith Boettcher made Oct 23 at 2019 9:05 AM

2019-10-23T09:05:54-04:00

It happens all the time. In my 20 years of service I have seen a lot of Senior NCO's and Officer's receive awards they did not, or do not deserve. The troops who gave their blood, sweat, and tears, never receive the more deserve recognition.