"Harrisburg police officer wrongly accuses veteran, 75, of 'stolen valor'"

2015-06-04T10:05:04-04:00

This article was originally published on pennlive.com:
--
An Army soldier attending Artsfest on Memorial Day thought something was fishy with the Marine uniform worn by 75-year-old Robert Ford, who was strolling along Front Street.

Ford's hat bore some wrinkles, according to the soldier's assessment, and his belt buckle looked too ornate for his rank.

The soldier enlisted the help of a Harrisburg police officer working at the event, who was a Marine, and together, they accused Ford of being a fraud.

"He's not a real Marine!" the officer shouted to the crowd gathered for the PennLive/Patriot-News Artsfest of Greater Harrisburg. "Stolen valor!"

"I was humiliated," said Ford, of Marysville.

The only problem is Ford did serve in the Marines from 1958 to 1964. He earned the rank of lance corporal.

"He's as legit as you can get," said Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and archivist from Pueblo, Colo., who is nationally recognized for detecting military fraud. Sterner confirmed Ford's military service this week through Headquarters Marine Corps.

The incident in Harrisburg, Sterner said, represents a troubling trend across the country of veterans becoming vigilantes.

Veterans are angry, Sterner said, after a federal law about "stolen valor," was struck down in 2012 and a meeker version passed in its place. Under the new law, few cases are being investigated or prosecuted against people who falsely claim military awards or service, Sterner said.

"The veteran community, frustrated and upset, is saying, 'OK. We'll do it ourselves,' " Sterner said. "But what it's leading to is a bunch of hot heads. ... There's a lot of bullying going on in the community now. It's almost like hunting game, going out looking for phonies."

In many cases, veterans or others who spot inconsistences are rewarded for their efforts. In Pennsylvania alone, people outed Jim Moats, of Newville, for his fake Navy Seal story; Brian Khan, of Harrisburg, for pretending to be a Marine; and Mark Kauffman, a veteran who's disabled status became an issue in March.

B.G. "Jug" Burkett, a Dallas-area Vietnam veteran who wrote a book entitled, "Stolen Valor," understands why people get upset at fakes who try to gain respect by claiming they served "shoulder to shoulder with those who gave their lives for America."

Burkett has helped in numerous prosecutions of fake military war heroes. But he said what happened in Harrisburg was a shame.

"I think that cop was out of line, approaching him like that with no evidence," Burkett said. "This is an older guy and maybe they didn't dress the same way 50 years ago."

Sterner agreed.

"I'd rather see a dozen phonies get kudos they don't deserve than besmirch the reputation of one innocent veteran," he said. "Even if I see something totally outlandish, I'm not going to jump. ... You don't just go up and confront people."

Ford asked to file a complaint with the Harrisburg Police Department over the way the officer, Detective John O'Connor, treated him. Capt. Deric Moody promised an investigation.

But as of Wednesday night, no one had contacted Ford or apologized to him. Moody told PennLive he still was trying to confirm Ford's military status.

Anthony Flaynik, the commandant of the local detachment of the Marine Corps League, said his group was doing their own investigation into the police department's actions.

"He gives up his time volunteering for honor guard for veteran funerals every three weeks," Flaynik said of Ford. "He comes out in the rain, shine, hot, cold. We need to do what we can to help him."

The incident

Ford has a tradition on Memorial Day. He dons his dress blue uniform, visits the cemetery, plays "Taps" on his bugle in a wreath-laying ceremony along the Susquehanna River, then attends Artsfest, where he looks for presents for his granddaughter.

But this year, as he was perusing the artware, a uniformed officer approached along with a man in civilian clothes.

The officer asked for Ford's unit and his military occupation specialty.

Ford answered and noted he specialized in machine guns, rockets and flame-throwers.

"I have to investigate for 'stolen valor,' " the officer said, which Ford said he found insulting.

Still, Ford let it pass and recommended the officer attend the wreath-laying ceremony next year. The officer simply walked away.

Ford returned to shopping, but 10 minutes later was again confronted by the officer in front of The Patriot-News booth.

"Where did you go to boot camp?" the officer said.

Ford said he couldn't figure out why the officer was questioning his service. Ford hadn't claimed any war heroics and his uniform bore no combat medals.

"What am I trying to do?" Ford said. "Impersonate a lance corporal who never served in combat?"

Things quickly escalated.

"What is your problem?" Ford asked.

The officer reiterated his demand.

Fed up, Ford told the officer to leave him alone in terms that contained an expletive.

That's when the officer started shouting, Ford said.

"You don't know where you went to boot camp," the officer said, according to Ford. "You aren't a Marine."

Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!"

Embarrassed, Ford slinked away, but the men followed. When Ford stopped and turned to face them, Ford said the officer waved his hand over his holstered weapon as if he were ready to draw it on Ford.

"I was getting very nervous," Ford said. "I was afraid to reach for my wallet."

A woman working at The Patriot-News booth, who did not want her name published, confirmed Ford's account that the officer followed Ford and yelled that Ford wasn't a Marine.

The woman said the ordeal lasted about 10 to 15 minutes. She described the officer as being antagonistic and said she believed the officer was trying to get Ford to make a move.

Eventually, Ford did retrieve his wallet to show the officer his U.S. Veterans Affairs card. The officer motioned for the soldier to examine it, Ford said.

The soldier concluded that Ford's VA card was a "fake and that anybody can print those out," Ford said.

That's when Ford asked for the officer's supervisor. Ford walked a block or so to meet Capt. Moody, with the officer and soldier trailing.

Moody talked to Ford and inspected his identification cards by holding them up in the air and tilting them, drawing more attention and embarrassing Ford.

The kerfuffle attracted a television news crew.

"People were gawking at the scene," Ford said. "People must have been thinking this was really bad."

Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."

Ford refused. He merged back in with the crowd, but noticed the officer lurking nearby, arms folded with his eyes fixed on Ford. Ford said he was disappointed Moody had not instructed the officer to move on.

Ford had hoped Moody would set things right. Instead, Ford said he felt even worse after the encounter.

"I felt their attitude was like, 'So what.' " Ford said. "I've spent almost my whole life working on veterans' issues."

Ford said he has launched programs to help veterans, is active in his local Marine Corp League and occasionally contributes letters about veterans' issues to the Opinion section of The Patriot-News.

Moody said the officer didn't curse nor put his hands on Ford so the incident didn't rise to the level of an internal affairs investigation. Instead, Moody said he was conducting an informal review of the incident.

"There were inconsistencies in his uniform," Moody said of Ford. "If an apology is due, then an apology is due."

Get evidence first

Experts who advocate for veterans and root out military fraud say public humiliation is not the way to go when one suspects something askew about a military uniform.

Older soldiers can forget the proper order of ribbons, but "that doesn't mean they're a phony," said Sterner, who runs a website called Home for Heroes. "Even real heroes make mistakes."

Sterner has accumulated a database of top military war medals as one method to guard against fraudulent claims.

Even with Sterner's background, he said he has only confronted one person in 15 years over "stolen valor" and that's because he knew the names of all the medal recipients for a particular award being claimed.

Sterner recommended that people concerned with military fraud should simply take down a person's information and "get their ducks in a row."

"I'm not going to confront or accost someone," Sterner said. "I'm going to get my evidence first."

Burkett, who lectures FBI agents and government-fraud investigators, advises on his website how people can check their suspicions by requesting the actual military records.

"I'm just surprised at this cop," Burkett said. "Most of the time, a real vet would not do that. ... People should ask questions first, then go check things out later."

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 4 at 2015 10:07 AM

2015-06-04T10:07:39-04:00

Ah yes .. the other side of the coin!

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jun 4 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-06-04T10:11:35-04:00

I was wondering how long it would be before this would happen.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 10:15 AM

2015-06-04T10:15:33-04:00

"Ford said the soldier joined in, shouting: "Stolen Valor! This man is a fake!""

Unacceptable conduct. What happened to command presence? This looks more like he's trying to stir up a lynch-mob.

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made Jun 4 at 2015 10:16 AM

2015-06-04T10:16:08-04:00

There are ignorant people everywhere. I really feel for that Marine.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jun 4 at 2015 10:16 AM

2015-06-04T10:16:52-04:00

Interesting situation, police officers often go with the 'gut' instinct. In this case it does not serve him well.

I find it interesting how long it takes for the police officer to be convinced that his initial assessment was incorrect. Lesson learned on not jumping to conclusions.

Response by SGT Forrest Stewart made Jun 4 at 2015 10:17 AM

2015-06-04T10:17:58-04:00

Robert Ford deserves an apology at the very least, from the police department AND the Marine that rattled this hornet's nest!

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Jun 4 at 2015 10:20 AM

2015-06-04T10:20:34-04:00

Sad - I think it's OK to talk with fellow military members and even to ask questions like "Where did you go to "boot" camp?" - but before you accuse someone of "stolen valor" you better be DARN sure what you are talking about! This cop was way out of line!

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jun 4 at 2015 10:38 AM

2015-06-04T10:38:45-04:00

I feel sorry for this vet. This whole situation was obviously handled very poorly.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 4 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-06-04T10:43:10-04:00

What a POS, both the cop and the Army veteran.

If I were there I would have come to the Marine's aid and defended him. There's a difference between stolen valor and not remembering every little detail about how to properly wear your uniform after 50 years!

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jun 4 at 2015 11:14 AM

2015-06-04T11:14:11-04:00

Too insult this man and reduce his selfless service to that likened to a thief is ridiculous! However, I am sure this happens much more frequently than we know about, the one thing we learn as Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen, Marines and Coast Guardsmen is to be humble servants, humble servants to our country. Most of us will not boast of our service or brag about our accomplishments and for that reason, during that occasion which might motivate those that served before us to wear something patriotic, it is sure to catch the attention, and ire of the non hacker that will try to tear you down!

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jun 4 at 2015 11:58 AM

2015-06-04T11:58:40-04:00

This is exactly why I always approach with caution when it comes to suspected Stolen Valor. This is what happens when people just jump in and lose their professionalism. Yes Stolen Valor is a problem. Yes we should police others but we must maintain our professionalism. Running around and yelling things isn't the way to do it.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 4 at 2015 12:52 PM

2015-06-04T12:52:19-04:00

This is horrible. If he is a fake or real, he is treated like crap. It was a no win situation.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 4 at 2015 12:58 PM

2015-06-04T12:58:32-04:00

I wouldn't have made a scene which could escalate a volatile situation. There was another way of taking care of business. Also, he is 75 years old. He is going to forget how to do a few things.

Response by SFC(P) Aaron Fore made Jun 4 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-06-04T13:10:36-04:00

What ever happened to proffesionalism

Response by SPC Scott Cody made Jun 4 at 2015 5:11 PM

2015-06-04T17:11:38-04:00

So you have TWO former Marine police officers confronted with this reality they falsely accused a fellow Marine of stealing valor yet those two former Marines have not made this right? What does that say about the type of Marines they were? I feel like maybe their Marine buddies need to remind them what it means to be a Marine. For Marines being a veteran isn't the only club you join after service. To them there are veterans and then there are Marine veterans. These two former Marine officers need to remember that and make this right for their fellow Marine. And the notion that "anyone can easily print that", really dude? First you want proof and them you blindly discredit the best proof you're going to get? I have not heard one case of someone faking the VA card. I did hear a case about faked license plates but that guy had a lot more skill in faking records than 99.9% of stolen valor cases. Most 75 year olds don't know how to use the computer let alone create a fake id card. All three owe this man a public apology as big as the scene they caused accusing him. I also agree punishment needs to be dealt but I say let the Marine Corp League handle it.

Response by SGT Anthony Bussing made Jun 4 at 2015 6:27 PM

2015-06-04T18:27:46-04:00

from the pictures on that website...mr ford WAS wearing the incorrect buckle...as a lcpl, his buckle should be empty...the EGA is worn by NCOs and the EGA and a wreath is worn by SNCOs.....but other then that...no big deal....and as a former Marine...I really wouldnt care if he was wearing the wrong buckle or not...dude is 75 years old...

Response by 1SG David Lopez made Jun 4 at 2015 6:36 PM

2015-06-04T18:36:20-04:00

That dumb-ass cop should be made to PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE to Marine Veteran Ford. He should also be made to clean the yard of this Veteran, as a form of extra duty (filmed and covered by their local news TV stations). He should also be made to write a paper (which should be posted in the local newspaper) concerning the proper way to handle a situation if one comes across a potential stolen valor / fraud. This type of behavior is inexcusable to say the least.

Response by MSgt Jamie Lyons made Jun 4 at 2015 6:57 PM

2015-06-04T18:57:33-04:00

Had a guy approach me for parking in a veteran spot once. I had an Air Force plate cover. I jumped out with my now fat gut and graying beard and he must of thought I was faking. He said he was an army veteran, served for 6 years and went on 2 deployments and I was stealing his parking spot. So I calmly whipped out my 'blue' id, VA card, copy of my DD214 and popped open my trunk, pointed to my boots and said something to the fact that those have 20+ years, over 10 combat deployments stretching from Desert Shield/Desert storm to Iraqi Freedom/Enduring Freedom, over 200 combat sorties and have more sand in them than a beach in Florida. Told him to be careful judging appearances before going off. He apologized and offered a tank of gas.. I shook his hand and thanked him for his service and went on my way. Mistakes happen.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 7:23 PM

2015-06-04T19:23:33-04:00

I blame social media on this one. Facebook is full of posts featuring videos of service members punking out stolen valor wannabes. Everybody wants a piece of the pie in this new social norm and they want to be recognized as being the one to call some one out.

Instead of approaching the guy and asking with tact about his service he made assumptions that made an ass out of himself. This is why veterans get a bad taste as they show there ass in public just to try and be the cool guy. Well turd, good job on making yourself look like an idiot and demoralizing this guy. You are the 10% that make the other 90% look bad!!

Response by SrA Richard Cromer made Jun 4 at 2015 8:35 PM

2015-06-04T20:35:15-04:00

Should be terminated.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 9:13 PM

2015-06-04T21:13:58-04:00

Judging by this follow-up article, I doubt an apology is coming, and that's seriously embarrassing for all involved, save Mr. Ford.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_mayor_stolen_valor.html#incart_related_stories

Harrisburg mayor: Police officers 'acted appropriately' in mistaken stolen valor case

Harrisburg Mayor Eric Papenfuse issued a news release Thursday addressing concerns raised by Robert Ford, 75, a former Marine, who said he was accused of being a fake on Memorial Day. Papenfuse said an Army soldier

Response by SGT John W Lugo made Jun 4 at 2015 9:15 PM

2015-06-04T21:15:40-04:00

Sorry to you sir for the new ignorance of the military, this is why even though I know I served 12 years I rather avoid wearing my Dress blues to avoid flipping out on some wanna be jackass who thinks they know everything.

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made Jun 4 at 2015 9:33 PM

2015-06-04T21:33:22-04:00

This is why I very very very seldom will confront someone on this issue because I would rather be 200 % sure than wrongly accuse someone

Response by SGT Doc Abel made Jun 4 at 2015 10:20 PM

2015-06-04T22:20:14-04:00

As a veteran from the Harrisburg area I can tell you this is unacceptable. What's even worse is the unnamed soldier in this case is a local who claims to be a part of "Stolen Valor". This "soldier" is known for always threatening people with Stolen Valor which is funny since he claims to be a former 18F, Special Forces member, but has no proof of his MOS and no one at Bragg can confirm he was ever a Green Beret. This guy is a menace and is guilty of stolen valor himself.

Response by SSG Scott Burk made Jun 4 at 2015 10:25 PM

2015-06-04T22:25:23-04:00

Both are Jackasses.

Response by Sgt Bill Chapman made Jun 5 at 2015 12:51 AM

2015-06-05T00:51:06-04:00

I get really irritated at uniform nitpicking of veterans. I've been out for ten years and I sure as heck don't remember minute details about uniform regs. One common example seems to be the ega's the Marine dress blue collar and what direction they should face. I have no idea which way, I'd have to look it up. Recent marines just don't realize how much of that drilled in knowledge goes away when you don't need it anymore. That cop showed horrible judgment

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 5:47 AM

2015-06-05T05:47:51-04:00

Meh, I have more pressing things to worry about than to figure out if someone is being real or not.

Response by SGT Darryl Allen made Jun 5 at 2015 8:08 AM

2015-06-05T08:08:20-04:00

I absolutely agree with SFC Private RallyPoint Member that the abundance of videos on social media is certainly causing people to seek out these cases of stolen valor. Seeking the approval and accolades of fellow service members and that 15 minutes of fame that comes along with it, especially if the mainstream media scoops up the story.

As an afterthought reading these comments. Why are we so quick, as a society, to demand people be fired for their jobs any time they make a mistake?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 9:30 AM

2015-06-05T09:30:06-04:00

Saw this, sometimes it's easy to spot some times not. Make sure you have your facts straight before you run around accusing people

Response by CSM Michael Lynch made Jun 5 at 2015 9:40 AM

2015-06-05T09:40:16-04:00

Extremely disappointed in the officer and his supervisor that were former Marines also. Not at all impressed with the Soldier and his yelling. Thanks to many of these that have hit you tube and other medias it will only get worse, I'm afraid. Yes we need to stop these folks, but we need to do it professionally and in a leader style approach. You can get their information, pass it on to the PD and the Stolen Valor folks and let them handle it legally. This is a very unfortunate situation and my heart goes out to this Marine.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jun 5 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-06-05T09:43:58-04:00

Completely uncalled for. The police officer needs to be publicly reprimanded and owes this veteran a public apology. The MILITARY member that initiated the accusations needs some UCMJ, conduct unbecoming and anything else that fits.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Jun 5 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-06-05T09:54:08-04:00

Sounds about right

Response by SP5 Joel O'Brien made Jun 5 at 2015 10:37 AM

2015-06-05T10:37:16-04:00

I have carried a small, laminated copy of my DD-214 in my wallet since I separated in 1976.
Only once have I been asked for it and that was at the VA. If anyone wanted to verify my service it would not be difficult to do so.

Response by SGT Curtis Earl made Jun 5 at 2015 11:19 AM

2015-06-05T11:19:11-04:00

People need to mind their own business. It's that simple. We need to bring down the tension caused by stunts like this. I don't care what some civilian wears. Some guy could be wearing CSM rank on a Naval Dress uniform and I'll laugh and keep rolling.

Response by PO1 Howard Doll made Jun 5 at 2015 12:23 PM

2015-06-05T12:23:58-04:00

That POS cop, and Army vet should get throat punched.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Jun 5 at 2015 1:29 PM

2015-06-05T13:29:42-04:00

THIS IS MY OPINION:
I saw this and laughed. Not because how rude it was, but because that is what happens when people go willy-nilly and start trying to defend something that doesn't need to be defended. Valor and honor is earned. And it cannot be taken. People pretending to be something they aren't stealing anything from me or my valor. What is it doing is causing that person to kind of honor me. When someone emulates you they are rendering you a high form of respect. They have decided that their life is so shitty that they need to pretend to be someone they aren't to at least feel the honor those people have. If stores and whom ever give then stuff for it then truthfully that to me isn't stealing either that is just bad business. Why should veterans and/or fake veterans be responsible for what discount a store does or does not give? I don't care about a discount and that discount or whatever isn't why I served. And that discount being given to someone else doesn't make my service less proud. This whole stolen valor crap is just that. If a person claims to be a navy ranger who saved sea lion team 4 alpha then let them. It doesn't lesson my service or even yours. It just makes them seem stupid. Just as stupid as seeing actors wear uniforms wrong in a movie.

I guess I look at it this way…I do not lose anything if George Ucktard wears a uniform and gets 10% off a churro. My service isn't damaged and nor is the military. So why care? Why is it that important to catch a faker? Trust me I've seen them. On Veterans Day one year I was at golden corral (paying for my meal). I saw an idiot in ASUs eating. But he had SSG on his sleeve and had it hanging on the back of his chair. I notice he had no shoulder boards and SPC rank on the collar. I approached him mentioned his uniform issues and got another helping of bourbon chicken. I didn't need to do anything beyond telling him what he needed to do to fix his uniform and it wasn't to embarrass him. I just wanted him to know he looked like an idiot. I didn't feel like I was a victim nor was anyone else that might have been around him. He was an idiot that wanted a free meal maybe if he was faking it that bad he might actually needed it.

Ok I'm losing where I am in this rant so I will sum it up. Stop looking for a stolen valor. They really aren't stealing anything. Find more important things to do with your life like love your family and share what it really means to serve with them.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Jun 5 at 2015 2:12 PM

2015-06-05T14:12:35-04:00

These asshats need to make their apology as public as their accusation.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 5:23 PM

2015-06-05T17:23:35-04:00

That is why you should approach any situation with professionalism. If you're wrong, you didn't make a scene or embarrass yourself or anyone else, much less the service.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jun 5 at 2015 5:27 PM

2015-06-05T17:27:48-04:00

Apologize, say "Thank you for your service" and move on.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 5:35 PM

2015-06-05T17:35:54-04:00

I would suggest reading the Stolen Valor Act of 2013 and paying attention to the wording of it. If you suspect someone of being a Stolen Valor do a Freedon Of Information Act request on them OR... REport them to Stolen Valor or Guardians of Valor. Bull Dog has his people look into all of the people reported to them. Let the professionals deal with this stuff.

I would sue the Police Department and name the Officer as a Defendant and Sue the "Soldier" and the News Paper for Defimation of Character and anything else my lawyer friends could think of.

Lastly, I would wear nothing but my dress blues all of the time. Mowing my grass? Ties and Taps! Grocery Shopping? Formal Dress! Movies? Mess Dress! I would go buck wild after this!!!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 5:36 PM

2015-06-05T17:36:47-04:00

This is the definite problem with calling these people out...

And why it is so so so so so so important to get your evidence together and lined up before you call someone out.

That's why I tend to stick with reputable Stolen Valor investigators like Guardian of Valor

http://guardianofvalor.com/

Guardian Of Valor

Outing those who Steal Valor from those that earned it.

Response by CPL Jason Jaggie made Jun 5 at 2015 5:38 PM

2015-06-05T17:38:02-04:00

I cannot believe what those two marines were thinking. They need to publicaly apologize to that veteran and they need to be punished. If I was in that situation and they did that to me, I would tell them to MIMD their own business. A VA card cannot be faked. Those two marines need to lose their god complex and apologize like any fellow veteran would. It just makes me sick. I am so sorry that veteran was treated like that. Most of my veteran friends are very humble and would have simply shook his hand and thanked him for his service. This story really makes me mad. I wish I was there!!!!!!!!

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Jun 5 at 2015 6:01 PM

2015-06-05T18:01:06-04:00

That's the problem, there is no risk in being wrong (provided whom you call out doesn't open up a big can of whoop-ass upon thee).

It all boils down to "Haters gonna hate". You got something they don't. Reality is that those who have impressive decorations didn't care to gain them when they were in the act of earning them. And you cannot just join thinking you're getting any. You just gotta be the first responder to a shit-sandwich situation and handle it reasonably well. At the time, you are just doing your job and whatever else you believe is expected of you. You cannot plan it.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jun 5 at 2015 6:05 PM

2015-06-05T18:05:38-04:00

It sounds like a pair of mental giants instigated an incident which has led to an instance of "Being a cop means I don't have to say I'm sorry."

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_artsfest_veteran_st.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Harrisburg police officer wrongly accuses veteran, 75, of 'stolen valor'

Robert D. Ford, of Marysville, served in the Marines beginning in 1958. He has remained active in veterans issues since his honorable discharge in 1964. He was shocked when a Harrisburg police officer called him a "fake" at ArtsFest on Memorial Day. PennLive confirmed his military service.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jun 5 at 2015 7:11 PM

2015-06-05T19:11:58-04:00

I hate Stolen Valor. I hate when someone turns up and is obviously a fraud.

But making a scene, especially when it comes to vets drawing Social Security, is some serious puerile crap. Number one, I don't expect a veteran over the age of 60 to go drop money on modern uniform trappings. Number two, part of my whole "the dude abides" motif is respecting my elders. My religious faith also places a heavy emphasis on NOT embarrassing someone even if you think they're wrong about something.

For the sake of not looking like a bunch of idiots to the overwhelming number of civilians out there, can we please, please, please reserve our public expressions of outrage for Stolen Valor instances that are part of a criminal undertaking, like VA fraud, etc? Or the more obvious instances, like when a guy puts SEALs down on his resume. Going after an old guy at a Memorial Day event is not "winning" anything, it's just making us all look like clowns.

Harrisburg is right up the road, and Mayor Papenfuse is an acquaintance. I will be writing a letter about this officer. The city, let alone HPD, owes this man an apology.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 5 at 2015 7:16 PM

2015-06-05T19:16:24-04:00

Glad you're back Wayne, we missed you!!

I read about this, very sad. They didn't seem to give this gentleman a break. This is like vigilantism gone wrong. I understand the concern but they should have at least checked out his story before attacking him. Social media needs to take a breath instead of fanning the flames that IMHO drove this situation. You can't ask one or 2 questions and then pounce.

Response by LCpl Nate W made Jun 5 at 2015 7:30 PM

2015-06-05T19:30:26-04:00

It is utter horse manure that this happened. What is going on that we are turning on our own these days? A few minutes of viral video fame? Add to this the bullying going on where some vets are marginalizing other vets service if they don't have a CAR. As veterans, we chose to enlist to be part of something bigger than ourselves, but some seem to be going out looking for the "gotcha" almost as a form of self-validation.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 7:39 PM

2015-06-05T19:39:54-04:00

Officer should be reeducated!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 7:45 PM

2015-06-05T19:45:44-04:00

How about checking credentials.

That is why I chose to register my DD-214 with the DMV. So my status is legally on my drivers license.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 7:56 PM

2015-06-05T19:56:16-04:00

I CALLED HARRISBURG POLICE! Told them they need to apologize to that old man! For Christ's sake, do the right thing, not the quickest...

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jun 5 at 2015 8:56 PM

2015-06-05T20:56:28-04:00

What if you're wrong? Well...you look like an a$$hole. Be sure.

Response by SSgt Daniel Aldridge made Jun 5 at 2015 9:22 PM

2015-06-05T21:22:05-04:00

What this officer did is criminal conduct and should be prosecuted as such, the results of which should appear in the officer's official service record: conduct unbecoming.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 5 at 2015 9:32 PM

2015-06-05T21:32:59-04:00

What if someone is wrong? Then its called a lawsuit.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 9:46 PM

2015-06-05T21:46:41-04:00

It's no different than any other sort of fraudulent activity. The few doing it make a bad name/image for the rest. It's unfortunate true vets like this guy get this treatment because of them.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jun 5 at 2015 10:42 PM

2015-06-05T22:42:18-04:00

Goes to show, you should never go off half-cocked; not that we all aren't guilty of that from time to time! If you're not sure, don't accuse, because it is NOT the accused's job to prove they are who they claim to be, it's YOUR job to prove they aren't. In this case, some people really should swallow their pride and apologize.

I have often wondered when a Stolen Valor incident will become violent; assuming it hasn't happened already. It could happen in any number of ways, but the scenario I see happening is a real vet or current service member wrongly accused by some glory hound with their cellphone camera rolling. Fraudsters can get defensive when confronted, but a real service member or vet might become more than just incensed, and things could escalate quickly.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 12:46 AM

2015-06-06T00:46:12-04:00

If a person is a suspected phony, the best approach is to feint interest with a few harmless questions that would likely trip up a fake. If after a few moments you're still not positive then it's probably best to just move on. If evidence mounts that they're full of crap then ramp up the questions and pounce.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Jun 6 at 2015 2:09 AM

2015-06-06T02:09:16-04:00

Well, part of the issue, as the gentleman in question noted, what exactly would his gain have been supposed to be?

It's one thing to call out some asshat who's basically begging in uniform - the guys who went after this fellow were simply revealing themselves as the asshats, especially since they declined to even hear his explanation.

And who hasn't been to a uniform inspection and not found some clown to be jacked up if there weren't the opportunity for a couple of pre-inspections? It should be no surprise if an old, or retired SM falls afoul of improper ribbon placement, and, as others have noted, any national guard ribbons will often confuse the issue as States will use the identical ribbon for an active duty award for a different State Guard Award.
As much as some of the new Stolen Valor hunters may not want to do so, you owe a potential veteran the opportunity to tell you about his awards and experiences; and to recognize that you may not know as much as you think you do about how the uniform was worn prior to your entry into the service.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jun 6 at 2015 2:16 AM

2015-06-06T02:16:15-04:00

I see these you tube videos and look like they are staged. I cannot understand a person going to all the trouble to buy a uniform to get a 10 percent discount at a store. And then why would you film the encounter. I've never ran into one of these civilian wants bees. And I'm not saying it doesn't exist.

Response by SR John Traphagan III made Jun 6 at 2015 2:46 AM

2015-06-06T02:46:09-04:00

Agreed. I had one Veteran call me out in the middle of a busy isle in Safeway. He was ranting and raving loudly at me until i pulled out my veteran id then he stood silent, shocked and embarrassed and sincerely apologized. I told him if you see someone in uniform and they dont seem to fit the persona, just wait and observe first. Check out the way they walk, how they hold themselves, check if their medals or patches are straight, aligned and in the correct spot on the uniform, if they are wearing one. If those curtain things are amiss chances are that they may be impersonators. Then approach them calmly and ask them a few questions. Such as "Are you a Veteran or Active Duty?", "What Branch and Division were or are you in?", "Where were or are you stationed?", "What was or is your rate?". If the answers dont jive or they struggle with answers then ask to see their id. If they cant provide one or say they dont have one then start verbally stomping their ass. Thats what I think at least.

I mean I hate fakes as much as the next Veteran but you also dont want to look like a fool in front of anyone, especially civilians who dont understand. Because then, to the civilians, you seem disrespectful and dishonorable and thats never a good thing.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 6 at 2015 3:18 AM

2015-06-06T03:18:27-04:00

Wasn't this story referenced in another thread GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad?

But yeah, I agree. Ask questions before you falsely accuse someone of Stolen Valor.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 7:36 AM

2015-06-06T07:36:41-04:00

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad, I saw this yesterday from a website I use for phonies. In answer to you question, before I post my scum bag selections, I check every resource available to me. I didn't do that once and I misread the post and posted it. It didn't take long before I got chastised. I checked, like I should have, and it wasn't about him being a phony. It was about him being approached and told he was a phony. Similar thing here. After I read the article, I was upset that the old trooper had to go through it. I can't remember his retort but it was classic.

Response by SPC Candace Leach made Jun 6 at 2015 12:34 PM

2015-06-06T12:34:49-04:00

I came across a few posers on Memorial Day and all I did was watch them and asked some questions and asked to see either their VA card or CAC Card and I get the most confused looks on their face til I show them my ID and told them it's best that they leave. Didn't make a fool of myself or the poser and as much as I want to stomp a mud hole up their....I was there to honor the fallen that day. If I came across a person who I though was an poser and they showed me proof, I'd say thank you for your service and apologize and carry on the rest of the day.

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Jun 6 at 2015 1:37 PM

2015-06-06T13:37:23-04:00

I can't say that I disagree with the statements here. I don't know about other states, but Virginia has an actual state issued I.D. card for military vets. Just show your dd214 at the dmv, give them 10.00 and you get a state issued I.D. card that must be accepted by anyone asking a vet for proof of service. All that aside, accosting a vet for any reason is just beyond ridiculous. I agree that the best policy is.........wait for it......trust but verify!!!

Response by CW3 Clayton C. made Jun 6 at 2015 1:45 PM

2015-06-06T13:45:35-04:00

Causing a scene because you think someone is parading as a service member is embarrassing at best. There are much more discrete ways of handling such things. I feel embarrassment and shame for everyone involved. Poor Mr. Ford had to endure such unprofessional and demeaning behavior. I can't even imagine how he felt that day, or even how he must still feel today. I can imagine he's lost faith in law enforcement in the area and what's worse, lost faith in his fellow veterans from our generation. Truly, this is a sad occasion. I'm not going to speculate as to the character of the two individuals that accosted Mr. Ford, because it's already very clear that they should hang their heads in shame all the way to his home to apologize. Not that they would without being forced to anyways. If I turn out to be wrong and they publicly apologize on their own, then I will have gained at least a little respect for them. Somehow, I don't think that will be the case.

Response by SFC Joey Jimenez made Jun 6 at 2015 3:52 PM

2015-06-06T15:52:02-04:00

Two little Rambo's trying to get famous on video.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jun 6 at 2015 6:18 PM

2015-06-06T18:18:09-04:00

The City of Harrisbug, especially the Police Department and the idiot who started this incident in the first place, owe Mr. Ford a HUGE PUBLIC APOLOGY

Response by SPC Ronald Collins made Jun 6 at 2015 6:30 PM

2015-06-06T18:30:14-04:00

How hard would it have been to say "Sir, I had a complaint about stolen valor. Can you show me your VA ID?" case solved... How hard would that have been? No this was one of those punk cops who feels they need to measure up the military. This is why we don't need paramilitary cops.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 6:46 PM

2015-06-06T18:46:59-04:00

This is exactly why I always say that the veterans who get up in arms about this stuff are a bunch of idiots. This is not the first incident like this one, and it won't be the last. In the meantime, all these jackasses screaming about stolen valor will continue to just look like children having tantrums. "Stolen Valor!" - Translation: "I'm super special, and deserve all your adoration and praise, but this guy is stealing the attention away from me! WAAAAH"

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Jun 6 at 2015 8:32 PM

2015-06-06T20:32:20-04:00

From my experience, no faker is ever just an ordinary guy doing his job. Nobody is just a mess cook, or, like Mr. Ford, a peacetime veteran. Fakers are always SEALs or other Special Forces, Top Gun pilots, Rangers, or Senior Officers or very Senior enlisted folks. They wear combat ribbons or badges and some pretty high-octane combat awards. An example: a local guy claimed to be a Naval Academy double-major graduate, SEAL, Commander, and his Facebook page showed him wearing the Navy Cross. In my 22-year Navy career, I met only 3 SEAL Commanders, not one of them a USNA grad, so this guy was suspect from the start. No faker is ever Joe Shit the Rag Man or even just a skimmer-qualified, staff weenie like me.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 8:38 PM

2015-06-06T20:38:27-04:00

That's okay I properly chastised say in effect, "you do not even apologize and you should.. a personal apology. I called them.......

Response by SGT Timothy Rocheleau made Jun 6 at 2015 10:51 PM

2015-06-06T22:51:08-04:00

Everyone is in such a rush to "disprove" someone as a veteran that they are making fools of themselves when it's shown that the accused actually did serve and served with honor. I think those that falsely accuse someone of "stolen valor" should be heavily fined and required to give a national apology to the veteran that they accused and to the entire military family for being an embarrassment to us all. The man is 75 years old and the rules and regs have most likely changed just a little since he served so it's understandable if he has something in the wrong spot. "Oh no, that man's hat is wrinkled, he can't be a true veteran. No veteran would ever wear a wrinkled hat". Get over yourselves, you're not all that important as evidenced by your need to try and publicly shame a 75 year old man who did actually serve his country.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Jun 7 at 2015 12:20 AM

2015-06-07T00:20:07-04:00

Maybe the LEO needs some professionalism training...and the Marine as well.

Response by SGT Kevin McCourt made Jun 7 at 2015 1:49 AM

2015-06-07T01:49:56-04:00

I have noticed this latest trend. It blows my mind. But, a lot of times it leaves me shaking my head. I understand where they (younger vets) are coming from. But, to go out of their way to embarrass this older Marine, is inexcusable. Especially a uniformed police officer on the job.

Response by PO3 Adam Finley made Jun 7 at 2015 5:12 AM

2015-06-07T05:12:59-04:00

I can understand the frustration that accompanies seeing a true case of stolen valor. The real tragedy here is the conduct of the police officer. He should be ashamed of himself. If he really doubted the guys service he should have got his own stuff strait first. I hope they hold this officer over the fire like he did this vet.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2015 11:29 AM

2015-06-07T11:29:47-04:00

As soon as people started making stolen valor youtube videos I began worrying that this would get out of control. I'm all for shaming people who stake a claim on valor/honor they did not earn. Better be 100% before you claim stolen valor. Can't wait to see the youtube video of some SF Vietnam vet who beats the hell outta some fool who wants to call him out because he can't remember some minor detail from 40+ years ago. I ask questions of people who claim veteran status to try to feel them out, but I feel that getting combative right off the bat is the wrooooong way to handle things.

Response by 1LT David Moeglein made Jun 7 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-06-07T11:53:03-04:00

Really? Regardless of the fact that the officer was flat out wrong on a factual basis. Mr. Ford is 75-years-old.

If a senior citizen had dementia (about half over the age of 85 do), and mistakenly thought they were a marine, what would be the harm? My America is one of compassion and respect for humanity. What's next? Are we going to start going after little boys who dress up as Superman?

Kudos to Mr. Ford for being able to still fit into his USMC uniform. It would take a lot of work on my part to get into my old service uniform. The officer, regrettably an army veteran, should take the stick out of his third point of contact!

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jun 7 at 2015 1:07 PM

2015-06-07T13:07:59-04:00

Instead of wasting times spotting the fakes, we should spend more time focusing on the real troops. The fakes will eventually get what they deserve.

Response by PO1 Curtis Connell made Jun 7 at 2015 4:48 PM

2015-06-07T16:48:18-04:00

I hate someone who claims that the were in the Military, when they were not. That doesn't mean that you beat someone up over it or jump to conclusions, until you get the facts. Alot of veterans, that didn't make it to retirement or medical discharge do not have an ID cards. The only other proof that one would have would be a DD-214 or a VA I.D. card. I don't know of to many people that take their DD-214 around with them.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jun 7 at 2015 5:59 PM

2015-06-07T17:59:23-04:00

Response by SGT Kristjan Rahe made Jun 7 at 2015 6:21 PM

2015-06-07T18:21:26-04:00

I have seenn it happen museld. I also take issue with chasing someone into traffic to call them out and threaten them. Tact is esential

Response by SPC John Decker made Jun 7 at 2015 8:18 PM

2015-06-07T20:18:23-04:00

Real vets get treated like this because of the frauds. True incidents of "Stolen Valor" should be treated more harshly. But only after valid evidence of fraud has been produced.

Response by SFC Chris Cook made Jun 8 at 2015 1:51 AM

2015-06-08T01:51:38-04:00

Young kids today.. You know, the 40 year olds and below, forget that there was such a thing as a draft.... Pretty much if you SEE a gentleman over the age of 60, there is a damn good chance that he served.. So leave him alone.

Response by Cpl Harold Prock made Jun 9 at 2015 8:16 AM

2015-06-09T08:16:24-04:00

I feel for Mr. Ford. I am not an outspoken veteran. I sometimes get embarrased for folks saying. "Thank you for your service". I am a disabled Veteran. I am also a retired disabled Police officer and would be horrified to see another Police Officer act this way? And did I reard right? He was also a fellow Marine. I served in the Reagan years.. 1983-1990 Semper Fi and the Police Officer definately did not follow protocol for The Marine Corps or for the Law enforcement profession. He is a disgrace.

Response by SSG Tim Thornton made Jun 9 at 2015 9:02 AM

2015-06-09T09:02:55-04:00

At 75, and possible mental issues, shouldn't they find out about someone first and ask around. When I have questioned possible military service, I have asked others first that knew the people. Yes out of a few I only found one but, at least I didn't embarress or harrass the others by opening my mouth to them.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 9:04 AM

2015-06-09T09:04:58-04:00

I am sick of "Stolen Valor" vigilantes. Not everyone who serves is Valorous in the first place. I hope this Cop is fired. How do we get the name of the "Soldier"?

Response by Sgt Chuck Haynes made Jun 9 at 2015 3:02 PM

2015-06-09T15:02:42-04:00

Pretty sad. I remember the one time at one of the local Legions I met one of the local WWII Marines during a veterans day event. He was wearing his Dress Alphas. His EGA's were on the wrong way. I fixed it, squared him away...no big deal. He was in his 90's and was on Iwo. Helluva nice man. As far as LE getting involved with what happened...wrong. Period. I am LE and wouldn't get involved in that. Lot of BS these days....

Response by SPC David Boerst made Jun 9 at 2015 3:41 PM

2015-06-09T15:41:52-04:00

it's embarrassing for both sides but at the same point why wear the uniform. I will never wear my Dress uniform or BDU's because I'm not enlisted anymore. I understand people are proud of their service buy get a tshirt or a hat that shows it, an official uniform is for those who are active duty. Yes its horrible that he got called out and the people were wrong but the focus needs to be on those who do fake their service

Response by LTC Brett Weeks made Jun 9 at 2015 10:06 PM

2015-06-09T22:06:03-04:00

This whole "stolen valor" thing is a ridiculous fad perpetuated by a bunch of insecure veterans and chicken-hawk politicians with too much time on their hands. There are already plenty of laws on the books that make fraudulent claims for veteran's benefits a felony, and if you are gullible enough to give money to a panhandler on the street just because they say they are a homeless vet wearing old cammies, too bad for you. I don't care if the guy was wearing the dress uniform of a Marshal of France, if he didn't try to use it file a claim for benefits, who should care?

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 1:39 AM

2015-06-10T01:39:14-04:00

Looks like the mayor will make it right:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/06/harrisburg_mayor_stolen_valor_1.html#incart_related_stories

Harrisburg mayor arranges personal apology, says police can learn from mistaken 'stolen valor'...

Harrisburg Mayor Eric Papenfuse said Detective John O'Connor and Capt. Deric Moody want to meet with Robert Ford, of Marysville, to apologize for the way they handled a "stolen valor" complaint by an Army soldier who was suspicious of the uniform worn by Ford at ArtsFest. Ford served as a Marine from 1958 to 1964.

Response by Cpl John Panico made Jun 10 at 2015 11:24 AM

2015-06-10T11:24:13-04:00

So he had officer's brass and his cover was AFU less than ideal when wearing dress blues but I have to inquire Detective Summers Eve who died and made you the IG... FOAD

Response by MSgt Raymond Grogan made Jun 10 at 2015 11:43 AM

2015-06-10T11:43:48-04:00

Why didn't this fellow Marine stand up for LCpl Ford?

Eventually, Moody, also a Marine, reportedly told Ford "it would be best if he just left, to avoid the camera and all the people that were now watching."

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 12:36 PM

2015-06-10T12:36:11-04:00

Insomuch as I loathe Stolen Valor, this is UNSAT.

Surely two Police Officers that are former Marines can conjure up a few calmly executed questions to validate the man's legitimacy as a Marine.

Great Caesar's ghost!! I am in the AF and I can come up with at least 5 questions that I know a Marine would know/render a fake speechless.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 1:43 PM

2015-06-10T13:43:15-04:00

This bothers me more than a cop involved in a beat-down.

Response by SPC Michael Rardin made Jun 10 at 2015 2:57 PM

2015-06-10T14:57:57-04:00

I don't even understand why people would do the stolen valor thing. I have seen it done, it just puzzles me. You want to be one then just join and do it. That's crap what these people did to this vet. They should be ashamed of themselves. They probably never seen combat either anyways.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 4:11 PM

2015-06-10T16:11:03-04:00

Disgusting behavior on the part of the police and the soldier. Who are you to say someones VA id card is fake. Get a life, they really had nothing better to do? Like catch a real criminal? People are fakers, yes, but at 75 years old, and no telling how much of his memory is 100 %, hell, Im 42 and my memory isn't that great. Geesh, Makes me mad!!

Response by Cpl Joe Robinson made Jun 10 at 2015 6:09 PM

2015-06-10T18:09:09-04:00

This Marine is pissed! Before you start making accusations you better check yourself. $#%$@ scumbags!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2015 12:07 AM

2015-06-11T00:07:12-04:00

Sounds like the the cop had a screw loose. I can understand confronting some young punk wearing a bunch of medals and a jacked up uniform but an older gentleman with no medals , thats uncalled for . Refusing to answer questions because someone is harrassing you is far different then saying some completely wrong answer like you went to Marine Boot at Ft Benning or something totally associated with a different service.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2015 10:59 AM

2015-06-11T10:59:51-04:00

Professionalism thrown out of the window.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Jun 12 at 2015 3:30 PM

2015-06-12T15:30:01-04:00

This was very wrong on the part of the individuals making the false claim.

Response by SFC John Prentice made Jun 12 at 2015 8:34 PM

2015-06-12T20:34:15-04:00

Maybe the police officer needs his military status checked on as that is not the way a real soldier would act. At least not in the units i served in,

Response by SPC Duncan Maciver made Jun 12 at 2015 9:38 PM

2015-06-12T21:38:03-04:00

I am a vet, and belong to an honor guard that consists of many different generations of service and also all branches. We where bdu's with our metals and any service connected accomplishments all different. They are not property displayed according to the military code, however I challenge anyone to walk up and try that bullshit because you'd have some very angry vets to deal with. After awhile we don't fit into our old issues but we where what we have with the utmost respect and love for our country

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2015 5:30 PM

2015-06-17T17:30:55-04:00

LCPL Ford,
I am truly sorry that you were treated with such downright disrespect. Those that mistreated you are truly lower than a snakes belly in a wagon rut. I wish that I could have been there to render assistance.

Response by SSG Ray Strenkowski made Jul 28 at 2015 3:32 PM

2015-07-28T15:32:55-04:00

This is just disgusting. Apparently the 'soldier' was an Army Officer who was never named. Shame on both of them for this.

This just goes to show that you better be sure before you accuse someone. People who victimize legitimate vets should be outed in turn. Publish their names so they won't do it again.

The unfortunate result of all these imposters is that real vets are forced to answer to folks who honestly just don't know any better.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2015 9:33 PM

2015-09-17T21:33:30-04:00

Sounds as if the cop was taking the word of a civilian claiming to be a marine (did they verify his creds?) over the actual marine in uniform. Since when do we challenge 75 year old veterans because their uniform looks out of sorts (I see them march in parades all the time and often times their uniforms are mismatched or aging)? As one of the respondents in the article states older uniforms can appear different if not altogether a different color. I would certainly not question an old man in Vietnam error uniform at a Memorial Day event especially considering there was no combat claims represented on the uniform, but even if so we were in SE Asia as early as 64. The ones to be concerned about are those in their 20's to 40's running around claiming valor in combat or otherwise claiming to be of some prestigous unit or earning a tab not honorably received, than to chase after Seniors. What happened to respect your elders? This cop needs an education at the most and at the very least to give a verbal appology to the veteran in public.

Response by SP5 Richard Maze made Oct 21 at 2015 11:34 AM

2015-10-21T11:34:38-04:00

There is so much wrong in this sad tale, beginning with this need to confront in public anyone who suspected fibbing about their military service. When we've reached the point of yelling at old men, we have gone too far.

Response by LCpl Dan McTiernan made Oct 22 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-10-22T14:46:44-04:00

This situation and some associated comments are a surprise to me. To get on this site I used my VA card as I have no clue where my DD214 is located. As a 65 year old I recall reporting to my first duty station in 1969, 8th Communications Support Battalion, Camp Lejeune, NC. Upon arrival I was assigned to a location that was designated the "new" Marine Corps. Barracks consisted of rooms with 4 Marines to a room, however, our new barracks construction had not been completed. Assigned to guard duty, I had no assigned room or rack to sleep in. A Corporal quietly volunteered to let me use his rack to sleep during the day. Shortly after being moved to the completed barracks the company formed for an "Inspection". The company gunny called out the Corporal who had helped me and proceeded to dress him down one side and the other in front of the whole company. Why? Because he did not have his decorations in order. The Corporal marched back to the barracks returning a short time later with 3 or 4 rows of decorations on his uniform. Gunny called him out again and proceeded to further dress him down calling upon the company clerk to bring the Corporal's personnel file out to the formation. Upon reviewing the returned personnel file, gunny's face seemed to turn a shade of pale along with our Mustang Company Captain who had since joined the formation. It seemed that this Corporal was still under represented in his decorations and after 3 tours in Nam was a genuine hero with decorations exceeding all career personnel. I have never forgotten his kindness nor humility. Nor do I when I see older vets at the John Basilone parade (Raritan, NJ) year after year. Oft times I seem many proudly displaying incorrectly military insignias. I do not jump to judgement based on a "reporters" typically biased article (referencing another stolen valor discussion on a college campus), nor jump to judge another, especially those who served before me. It is good to know that some take great umbrage to those who misrepresent their experiences, yet, not at the risk of anothers expense. Years ago in SF, with a friend, we entered a bar to have a beer or two after a tournament. My partner is short and slight of build and was challenged by a patron in the bar who immediately physically attacked him. Unfortunately for the patron my partner was a world ranked martial artist. We were unable to take the time to finish our beers. Who am I to judge another?

Response by PO1 Glenn Colby made Oct 23 at 2015 3:13 PM

2015-10-23T15:13:41-04:00

What is sad is that is has come to this. The dumbshits that wear every ribbon the exchange sells accompanied with medal and the highest rank they can buy are to blame. However like he said, who would steal the valor of a Lance Corporal that had served in no combat? This guy wouldn't even have been someone of interest unless he was one of those douches sporting a Medal of Honor and four stars with ribbons going around his shoulder.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2015 10:44 AM

2015-11-06T10:44:38-05:00

It appears that some of our brothers and sisters in arms are all too ready to assume someone has committed "Stolen Valor". It is not our place to police up these people. Especially in this case, look at how stupid two people made the military look.

Response by PO3 Brad Phlipot made Dec 7 at 2015 7:29 AM

2015-12-07T07:29:41-05:00

Logan I'm locked out. 4 attempts to get verified call the number I gave you

Response by Cpl Keith D Williams made May 29 at 2016 7:09 AM

2016-05-29T07:09:04-04:00

Last time I checked "Poop Police" wasn't on the list of any of our general orders. When on active duty we get plenty of extra duty assignments, maintenance details, chaser duty, mess duty, guard duty, duty NCO etc. As offensive as it is to many I can never understand why after leaving active duty so many who avoided extra duty at all cost when it could have done them some good, feel the need to take on this extra duty when there is in the end nothing to gain. There are much greater impostors hiding in the chain of command that actually cost our brothers and sisters their lives that deserve our attention. Semper Fi.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Sep 5 at 2016 2:36 PM

2016-09-05T14:36:18-04:00

Some cops are real punks, not all. The job seems to attract that type alot. I had noticed that since high school and seeing who became a cop.

Active duty or a Vet should care less if they spot a faker. Now if a faker is making money or getting favors then it would be time do something. Before that I could only laugh at such or just go "yea, whatever, fool".

Response by SFC Bill Snyder made Sep 5 at 2016 7:24 PM

2016-09-05T19:24:29-04:00

It's kinda hard to tell what is what with the decorations. I get to Ft. Jackson a lot and see Buck Sgts and some E-4s with more lettuce on their uniforms then Clint Eatwood in Hesrtbreak Ridge. I figure if there on an Army Base they are legit. More power to them.

Response by SFC Jeffrey Port made Sep 7 at 2016 10:02 AM

2016-09-07T10:02:06-04:00

Hello All,
I recall seeing that video, I am sorry this man had to go through that stress and public embarrassment. My father was in the Marine Corps a few years before him. I also work near Camp Lejeune and have many older vets who were drafted or first termers. Many were only in for a few years during this time period and still proud of their service. Most are looking for uniforms for parades or their burials and cannot really recall the uniform regulations for wear of the uniforms, medals, etc..

Response by SP5 Robert Ruck made Jan 31 at 2017 12:29 AM

2017-01-31T00:29:27-05:00

I can understand the concern for stolen valor. I cannot understand a policeman's harassing a person whom he thinks is not a true veteran. Even questioning the validity of his documentation when it is displayed to him. Outrageous behavior by a Law Enforcement Officer representing "We the People". Are we now at guilty before proven innocent?

Response by SSgt Allen Sorochiello made Mar 16 at 2017 2:20 PM

2017-03-16T14:20:04-04:00

I am appalled by the officer's actions and that of the Army Veteran.They both owe the Marine Veteran a apology.If I was Capt.Moody I would personally take that officer to the Marine. Veteran's home and both apologize .Then They should apologize to the Community they serve for being a embarrassment to the uniform they wear!

Response by Sgt Matt Dean made Mar 18 at 2017 4:31 AM

2017-03-18T04:31:47-04:00

You should never act as though you were a military member much less where the uniform. On the other hand there are certain questions you can ask especially if you were apart of that branch that can answer many questions. If it's found that a individual is a stolen valor he should be called out because that's a discrace to true soldiers marines airmen and navy! They trained, fought and earned the right to where the uniform but before you call someone out you need to be 100% positive they are a fake! God bless our warriors and soldiers. Be one don't act like one

Response by LT Pamela Jones made Mar 24 at 2017 6:28 AM

2017-03-24T06:28:49-04:00

I've never gone out of my way to "out" anyone. I'm not perfect and without hard evidence there's no way I could be certain of a person's veteran status. There's no need to humiliate someone just because of a little knowledge. I certainly would never "out" someone of a different service. I'm Navy. What do I know of the Army or Air Force uniform regs? I'm more knowledgeable about US Marines and Navy but with the passing of years, I don't know all of those either. best to keep my mouth shut.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Apr 9 at 2017 12:27 PM

2017-04-09T12:27:02-04:00

What is it about the old rule ; "Scold/admonish in private, praise In public" don't people get? Geez, all they did was make their self look to be arses..
When guys like Mr. Ford get up in years, their mind starts to slip, their thought process slower.. so give them a sprout, eh? Thank you !

Response by CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw made Apr 9 at 2017 6:56 PM

2017-04-09T18:56:25-04:00

The Officer was out of line!!! You don't rebuke in Public especially without known facts!!! These actions are shameful, disgraceful, and very embarrassing for a true veteran!!! Get your facts straight and if warranted, respond in the appropriate place!!! Don't disgrace a Veteran just because they served in a different time and era and at an elderly age! How shameful!!! I'm strongly against Stolen Valor of any type but get your facts straight before destroying the Character and Honor of A Veteran especially in Public!!! Just my Opinion!!! Doc Bradshaw

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Jun 5 at 2017 8:38 AM

2017-06-05T08:38:33-04:00

Stop complaining junior I am seventy myself

Response by SP5 Robert Ruck made Jun 5 at 2017 6:36 PM

2017-06-05T18:36:08-04:00

I've read this story before. Clearly the officer and the soldier over stepped their bounds. This is always a possibility when this type of vigilantism comes into play. Very poor decision making on the part of a supposedly trained law enforcement officer.

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Jun 6 at 2017 11:43 AM

2017-06-06T11:43:06-04:00

SHAME! what was outcome? who came out on TOP? I\d like to know the rest of story because the guy sounds like veteran who just did not know the uniform regulation. I wish some ass like that would try to bust me out like that. But I'm not going to parade around in my uniform to bring attention to myself, my duty is done.

Response by SrA Dean Updegraff made Jul 2 at 2017 12:58 PM

2017-07-02T12:58:59-04:00

I got out in 1978. I don't remember how to wear my ribbons. Hell I don't even know what happened to my dress blues. But I do carry my VA card. I don't feel a need to prove my non combat service. Most I wear and it is rare that I wear is is an Air Force veterans hat. Other than that I never wear any part of a uniform.

Response by LTC John Wilson made Jul 15 at 2017 12:05 PM

2017-07-15T12:05:34-04:00

As a former Police chief, I would be highly upset with any officer abusing his authority and trying to demean any service veteran in uniform. This officer would be reprimanded and forced to write an apology that should be printed in the local paper to get out to more viewers. I remember I was told that I was too short to be a Green beret and all Green Berets were 6"or taller. Lol. I was also told I was too young to be a Marine in my late teens (19 yrs Old). Things are changing all the time and just because you don't recognize the change doesn't mean it is invalid. Look at the Army Getting black Berets, and Rangers wearing Tan berets. Rangers used to be identified by their Black berets, now it is not so. Burgundy was a Paratrooper, Green was and is Army Special Forces Thank you all for your service and letting this old man rant on about the best years of my life. God Bless.

Response by SFC Jimmie McCoy made Aug 10 at 2017 4:00 PM

2017-08-10T16:00:59-04:00

What a jerk Moody was!

Response by SGT Thomas LaRochelle made Aug 10 at 2017 4:07 PM

2017-08-10T16:07:53-04:00

Hell, I just found out that my boss at Oreilly's used a fake social to get his first job in this country. That is what I was told, anyway.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2017 1:05 AM

2017-08-25T01:05:43-04:00

To all the well-meaning, over-zealous bozos out there, the first thing to know about this situation is that the Stolen Valor Act made it a crime to impersonate a veteran in order to receive a benefit. We still live in a free country where people are free to dress how they want. Second, as pointed out by other posters, better to let a dozen fakers go than wrongly accuse a single veteran - get your facts straight!

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Aug 25 at 2017 1:19 AM

2017-08-25T01:19:24-04:00

It is never a good idea to go vigilante without any evidence.

Response by SGT Jim Humphrey made Nov 17 at 2017 2:41 PM

2017-11-17T14:41:01-05:00

As a retired Police Officers I find this to be a example of what not to do. Time for a written apology from the officer who was acting as the city's representative.

Response by SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter made Nov 17 at 2017 4:14 PM

2017-11-17T16:14:08-05:00

I had a similar incident happen to me one day while waiting for the train after leaving my office. I had on a hat that said Air Force Veteran. Some idiot walked up to me and said hey you a Veteran I said to him yes. He said I don't believe you show me proof he went on to say give me times and places you served. I said excuse me are you a Veteran he said no I am not. I then said to him go ahead about your business sir. He again said no I am waiting for you to give me time and places. By this time the idiot had pissed me off I dropped my backpack and got in his face and said to him if you don't get away from me you'll going to be very sorry you had this encounter with me. He cowardly walked away. The nerve of this guy!

Response by SPC David Willis made Jan 5 at 2018 10:58 AM

2018-01-05T10:58:51-05:00

To anyone who has actually confronted a "stolen valor" case. What did you get out of it other than 5 minutes of fame and 20 likes on facebook? How about we all mind our own business a little bit more? 90% of veterans have no war stories or "valor" to steal, we all just did a job and came home and I don't know about yall but when I came home I decided the last thing I wanted to be was a uniform Nazi/stolen valor private investigator.

Response by SSgt Dwight Deatherage made Feb 3 at 2018 7:58 AM

2018-02-03T07:58:51-05:00

Correct on that. I spent 4 years active Duty in the Army - all CONUS. I qualified and wore a NDSM and Army Good Conduct and a Marksmanship Badge.

The next year I went in the Air Guard in the same job skills (Air Traffic Control).

When I went to get all of my uniforms they issued me a hand full of ribbons and a specialty badge. I inquired, even though I been in a few hours, I had an AF Good Conduct, AF Marksmanship ribbon, and all kinds of unit citations - now I had 7 ribbons and an ATC Badge, and looked like I must have been around half a lifetime

On my first

Response by MSG Robert Matias made Feb 3 at 2018 1:54 PM

2018-02-03T13:54:27-05:00

some take being gatekeepers to seriously. I was in Florida when a couple of young men took issue with a kid who was wearing ACU shirt and a ASU soft cap. The bartender and myself told them to let it go. Turns out the kid is proud of his mom’s service.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Hall made Feb 9 at 2018 11:22 PM

2018-02-09T23:22:39-05:00

Thanks for posting this.. as we ALL uniforms change over time.. my grand father who in ww2 did not wear the same army uniform i did.. hell in 2000 i worn a different uniform than i did in 2012.. bdu's look different than acu's.. thats just one example. Im sure there is 100s of other examples, so even if we carry a card someone can just say it fake, show them you dd-214 or state version they can thats fake too.. tbere has to be another way to get stupid people to back off, police officers as well as anyone else tbat acts that way..

Response by SGT Brian Lorkowski made May 29 at 2018 9:02 AM

2018-05-29T09:02:21-04:00

This is getting ridiculous.

Response by SPC David S. made Dec 28 at 2018 12:01 PM

2018-12-28T12:01:27-05:00

While I think both LEO's and the other stolen valor crusader's behavior were out of line there is an easy fix for all this. In PA vets can get a veterans designation on their driver's license or identification card that clearly indicates that the bearer is a veteran of the United States Armed Forces.
In IL we have a similar law and I have it. Very handy for getting discounts on ammo and range time as well the few times I've been pulled over.
Sure its a little bit of paper work but Mr. Ford could of easily stopped the officer in his tracks and demanded an apology in front of everyone with it.

The irony - "Janice Sample" is from "Harrisburg"

Response by SSG George Holtje made Jan 30 at 2019 8:05 AM

2019-01-30T08:05:58-05:00

Did anyone say Officer why don’t you go bust some meth snorting teenagers before I put my foot in your ass.

What is the charge for aggravated assault for stolen valor accusations based on ignoramouses

Response by SPC Korey Kilburn made Nov 3 at 2019 1:55 AM

2019-11-03T01:55:18-05:00

What a couple of disgraceful ex-marines in cops clothes. Not good cops and not good Marines. Captain Moody must have ate too many crayons, his Officer is just a sad excuse for a sack of shit.

Response by MSgt Michael Ivey made Nov 24 at 2019 6:03 PM

2019-11-24T18:03:32-05:00

Such a sad and pathetic thing to have happen. This veteran did not deserve to be treated by this police officer as he was. I hope the Police Chief at the least, gave him a good butt thrashing! But, probably won't happen. Police are always right! Never back down or apologize when they are wrong! It not in their DNA!

Response by A1C Michael Haggerty made Dec 26 at 2019 9:05 PM

2019-12-26T21:05:46-05:00

It’s getting out of control. Terrible behavior.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Jul 15 at 2020 1:02 PM

2020-07-15T13:02:46-04:00

Fire the 2 cops, simple solution. They overstepped their authority. And should be charged with assault.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Aug 30 at 2020 5:51 PM

2020-08-30T17:51:05-04:00

So here we are again two ASSHATS who don't know shit accuse a guy of stolen valor. I really think the fools that pull crap like this really need to look at themselves in the mirror and do some self evaluation.

Response by SPC Lyle Montgomery made Jul 2 at 2021 11:15 AM

2021-07-02T11:15:54-04:00

It sounds like The real vet ran into a couple of self richous dickheads. If more people would just mind their own buisness and don't appoint themselves as controulers of others The world would be a better place

Response by SGT John Graham made Jul 16 at 2021 3:59 PM

2021-07-16T15:59:24-04:00

As both a veteran and a retired Police Officer, I would like to apologize to Lance Corporal Ford. The actions of the OFFICER were out of line. They were unprofessional and not in accordance with standards of conduct or investigations. IF this officer is a Detective I question whether he has either the judgment or maturity to perform the job. As the Police Captain opined that the conduct did not rise to the level of an Internal Affair Investigaton, I strongly disagree. It is the duty of I.A. to investigate any potential misconduct. There is always the old CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER. On my personal journey from Patrol to Chief I encountered several C.U.B.O investigations. Some based on false accusations and some warranted. The thing is I.A. often will do a through job of investigations. Whether the accused is exonerated or found responsible, the record is retained.

Response by SFC Richard Hart made Aug 9 at 2021 5:21 PM

2021-08-09T17:21:02-04:00

I recently had a person on Facebook (one of the military groups there) accuse me of stolen valor when I told him that I had a service star on my National Defense Service Medal. He said that there was no such thing. I do not know when or where he served but since I served during Vietnam and the first Gulf War I was awarded the service star as anyone else that had been active duty during that time should have. I can actually show him on my DD form 214 where it was awarded. Unfortunately its too easy to scream stolen valor. Its sort of like accusing a man or spouse abuse it is guilty until they prove themselves innocent.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2021 5:33 PM

2021-08-09T17:33:43-04:00

A stain on Pa. I am not surprised. I live in the Scranton area.

Response by PO2 David Harlow made Sep 19 at 2021 4:30 PM

2021-09-19T16:30:08-04:00

Every time I read one of these stories, I'm baffled by the line "Well, that card is fake, anyone can print them out." Then why bother asking us for it? I could show him my DD-214 and the first thing out of this guy's mouth would have been "You just made that up in MS Word". I am sincerely grateful for finally having a card that identifies veteran status without having to carry around paperwork that frankly, random people on the street have no right seeing in the first place. Are we really going to have to go so far as to place holographic logos and microchips in this simple card just to placate these idiots?