CSM Private RallyPoint Member 51244 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Has anyone really sat down and explained how as a board member they look at a record? I am sure<br />there are plenty of CSMs out there that have, but if not I am going to describe what I thought about a record. I am going to explain what I used for criteria when looking at records. Contrary to popular belief, there is very minimal board guidance given other than what is in DA PAM 600-25. (if you haven’t looked at DA PAM 600-25 you are already wrong) The criteria I looked for came from what I thought was important for the next level of responsibility. I have shared this with members of my unit as they prepared their records for validation as these are the things that are important to me, besides what DA<br />PAM 600-25 states. I am NOT stating that all panel members vote a record this way or taking away from what a mentor or chain of command has already told you!!!<br /><br />This is just general knowledge from my point of view.<br /><br />1. If you have an AR-15, GOMOR, or LOR in your official OMPF the board members will see it and it could be factored into your vote. Used to be that a board member did not get to look at restricted files, but this has changed for the FY14 SFC board.<br /><br />2. First thing I looked at was your DA Photo; do you look like a Soldier in uniform? Are all your accouterments worn correctly and by precedence? Can I see your overseas service bars? Are you at the proper position of attention?<br /><br /> a. If you wear a mustache ensure it is worn correctly!! A mustache didn&#39;t factor into my vote unless it was out<br />of regulation, however, some other board members did not like mustaches and that could have affected their score.<br /><br /> b. Ensure your photo is up to date and within a year of your board (my preference). Regardless of regulation<br />(5yrs, SSG, or ARCOM or higher), get a photo every time you are considered for promotion.<br /> <br /> c. Go get your photo in ASU’s. I know the wear out date is still valid, but seriously you might not be considered highly if you are still wearing greens.<br /><br /> d. Are you at the proper position of attention? Is your hair within regulation? I shouldn’t be able to see your fingernails except for your thumb when at the position of attention, if you are wearing nail polish (females) ensure it&#39;s within regulation.<br /><br />3. Next I looked at your ERB and I looked at seven different areas:<br /><br /> a. OS/Deployment Combat Duty; I looked to see how many deployments you have been on and if you are wearing the correct number of overseas bars based on the one for every six months rule. (If I had to guess to ensure you had the right amount you are making me dig) Don&#39;t make anything on your record!!!<br /><br /> b. SQI/ASI; what have you done that your peers haven&#39;t? Recruiter, Drill Sergeant, AIT PSG, Instructor, etc. Also what schools have you been to master your profession or the duty assignment you are currently in or have been in? Are you marketable to another organization?<br /><br /> c. Military Education; I looked to see what other training you have attended and if you distanced yourself from your peers as far as achievements. (commandants list, honor graduate, etc.)<br /><br /> d. I also looked to see if you were working on correspondence courses; how are you developing yourself professionally?<br /><br /> e. Civilian Education; Have you started college, do you have a degree? (I looked at this hard and if I saw a zero in college it made me question why?)<br /><br /> f. Awards and Decorations; as a SSG I expect you to have earned at least an ARCOM. If you have anything higher than that was a plus. I also went back to your photo to see if it all matched. (don&#39;t make me dig into your file if I don&#39;t have too).<br /><br /> g. Assignment Information; I looked to see if your assignment information was clean, not having any erroneous duty positions or multiple same assignments. Did not want to see incoming or known losses in this area. Also wanted to see all your times in a combat zone identified in parentheses as (IZ/AF or others FWD) and that it matched your OS/Deployment Combat Duty info.<br /><br />4. NCOERS; I looked to see if I could establish consistency in 24 months. If that was done with two annuals then I didn&#39;t look anymore. If that took five NCOERs than I continued to look. I wanted to see 24 months of consistency for your performance and potential. This is what I looked for:<br /><br /> a. How long was the rated period?<br /><br /> b. What was the level of experience of your rating chain?<br /> <br /> c. What was your duty position?<br /><br /> d. What was the skill grade required for that duty position?<br /><br /> e. Did you have any NOs under values?<br /><br /> f. I did not care about how many excellent blocks you had and to be honest I was more interested in your success bullets. Why did you achieve a success rating? I did read all the bullets, but it held very little weight to me. I was looking for quantifiable information to prove them worthy of an excellence.<br /><br /> g. I focused the weight of my vote on part V. Did the rater and Senior Rater block you and did it send a consistent message? What was the strong words the Senior rater said about you? Promote now, ahead of peers, etc… Send to school now, immediately, etc. Performance and Potential and how you did it, I especially liked when a SR used a number system, 1 of 15 NCOs that I rate, top 2% of NCOs in the entire BDE, etc… Again, I am only looking to establish 24 months of consistency.<br /><br />This is just a quick reference to see how I would have developed criteria to vote a record. This doesn’t mean everyone does it this way, this was only my criteria. 2014-02-04T17:00:47-05:00 CSM Private RallyPoint Member 51244

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Has anyone really sat down and explained how as a board member they look at a record? I am sure<br />there are plenty of CSMs out there that have, but if not I am going to describe what I thought about a record. I am going to explain what I used for criteria when looking at records. Contrary to popular belief, there is very minimal board guidance given other than what is in DA PAM 600-25. (if you haven’t looked at DA PAM 600-25 you are already wrong) The criteria I looked for came from what I thought was important for the next level of responsibility. I have shared this with members of my unit as they prepared their records for validation as these are the things that are important to me, besides what DA<br />PAM 600-25 states. I am NOT stating that all panel members vote a record this way or taking away from what a mentor or chain of command has already told you!!!<br /><br />This is just general knowledge from my point of view.<br /><br />1. If you have an AR-15, GOMOR, or LOR in your official OMPF the board members will see it and it could be factored into your vote. Used to be that a board member did not get to look at restricted files, but this has changed for the FY14 SFC board.<br /><br />2. First thing I looked at was your DA Photo; do you look like a Soldier in uniform? Are all your accouterments worn correctly and by precedence? Can I see your overseas service bars? Are you at the proper position of attention?<br /><br /> a. If you wear a mustache ensure it is worn correctly!! A mustache didn&#39;t factor into my vote unless it was out<br />of regulation, however, some other board members did not like mustaches and that could have affected their score.<br /><br /> b. Ensure your photo is up to date and within a year of your board (my preference). Regardless of regulation<br />(5yrs, SSG, or ARCOM or higher), get a photo every time you are considered for promotion.<br /> <br /> c. Go get your photo in ASU’s. I know the wear out date is still valid, but seriously you might not be considered highly if you are still wearing greens.<br /><br /> d. Are you at the proper position of attention? Is your hair within regulation? I shouldn’t be able to see your fingernails except for your thumb when at the position of attention, if you are wearing nail polish (females) ensure it&#39;s within regulation.<br /><br />3. Next I looked at your ERB and I looked at seven different areas:<br /><br /> a. OS/Deployment Combat Duty; I looked to see how many deployments you have been on and if you are wearing the correct number of overseas bars based on the one for every six months rule. (If I had to guess to ensure you had the right amount you are making me dig) Don&#39;t make anything on your record!!!<br /><br /> b. SQI/ASI; what have you done that your peers haven&#39;t? Recruiter, Drill Sergeant, AIT PSG, Instructor, etc. Also what schools have you been to master your profession or the duty assignment you are currently in or have been in? Are you marketable to another organization?<br /><br /> c. Military Education; I looked to see what other training you have attended and if you distanced yourself from your peers as far as achievements. (commandants list, honor graduate, etc.)<br /><br /> d. I also looked to see if you were working on correspondence courses; how are you developing yourself professionally?<br /><br /> e. Civilian Education; Have you started college, do you have a degree? (I looked at this hard and if I saw a zero in college it made me question why?)<br /><br /> f. Awards and Decorations; as a SSG I expect you to have earned at least an ARCOM. If you have anything higher than that was a plus. I also went back to your photo to see if it all matched. (don&#39;t make me dig into your file if I don&#39;t have too).<br /><br /> g. Assignment Information; I looked to see if your assignment information was clean, not having any erroneous duty positions or multiple same assignments. Did not want to see incoming or known losses in this area. Also wanted to see all your times in a combat zone identified in parentheses as (IZ/AF or others FWD) and that it matched your OS/Deployment Combat Duty info.<br /><br />4. NCOERS; I looked to see if I could establish consistency in 24 months. If that was done with two annuals then I didn&#39;t look anymore. If that took five NCOERs than I continued to look. I wanted to see 24 months of consistency for your performance and potential. This is what I looked for:<br /><br /> a. How long was the rated period?<br /><br /> b. What was the level of experience of your rating chain?<br /> <br /> c. What was your duty position?<br /><br /> d. What was the skill grade required for that duty position?<br /><br /> e. Did you have any NOs under values?<br /><br /> f. I did not care about how many excellent blocks you had and to be honest I was more interested in your success bullets. Why did you achieve a success rating? I did read all the bullets, but it held very little weight to me. I was looking for quantifiable information to prove them worthy of an excellence.<br /><br /> g. I focused the weight of my vote on part V. Did the rater and Senior Rater block you and did it send a consistent message? What was the strong words the Senior rater said about you? Promote now, ahead of peers, etc… Send to school now, immediately, etc. Performance and Potential and how you did it, I especially liked when a SR used a number system, 1 of 15 NCOs that I rate, top 2% of NCOs in the entire BDE, etc… Again, I am only looking to establish 24 months of consistency.<br /><br />This is just a quick reference to see how I would have developed criteria to vote a record. This doesn’t mean everyone does it this way, this was only my criteria.

2014-02-04T17:00:47-05:00 2014-02-04T17:00:47-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 51248

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM - great pointers and advice!  Thanks for sharing.  I'll be sure to put this in my KIT bag for future use when talking to my NCOs and Soldiers.

2014-02-04T17:07:11-05:00 2014-02-04T17:07:11-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 51380

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM, thanks for the advice. Since that is most likely the only advice I will get after this last board it really helps.

2014-02-04T20:27:04-05:00 2014-02-04T20:27:04-05:00 SSG Chuck H. 51383

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM,<div>This guideline is as others have said the most complete and concise answer I've ever seen. Thank you so much for the pointers. At this point it may seem premature for me however preparation is never premature when it comes to promotion records. I will share this with my rater and the other SNCOs in my section. </div>

2014-02-04T20:30:19-05:00 2014-02-04T20:30:19-05:00 SFC Brian Whisenant 51411

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM, I really appreciate the thorough detail in which you explained the board process, but the DA Centralized Board system is still very frustrating. I have always received stellar ratings (quantified, not fluff, top 2 of 30 SFCs in the unit, etc), have a Bachelor degree as well as two Associate's, working toward an MBA, multiple deployments, a wide variety of duty positions to include 1SG and many PSG duties, no UCMJ/GOMAR/Slap on the wrist, 3 SQIs, and I scrutinize my ERB constantly yet every year I look at a list with no sequence number by my name. I know it sounds like "poor me", and I'm sorry but that isn't my purpose. I just feel like venting to the public for a moment. 

2014-02-04T21:07:12-05:00 2014-02-04T21:07:12-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 51463

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM, Thank you for taking the time to share this information. My mentors have given me a good knowledge base thus far on this topic to keep me on track. I will keep your points in my ruck sack with the rest of the good info. It's good to hear what a person who has had to review board packets looked for.

2014-02-04T22:23:48-05:00 2014-02-04T22:23:48-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 51465

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>CSM Hockenberry, that is some excellent information you provided and the best rundown/insight I have received on what a board member looks for.  It was much appreciated.  Also, I would like to add something to what you were saying.  Firstly, DO NOT wait until you're notified that you are being looked at for the board before you start updating your packet.  This is a huge mistake in my opinion that many of my peers/friends have done in the past.  Things happen.  A deployment or TDY may come up.  You're gone for 6-8 months or longer and before you know it, your time has run extremely short or it's completely out.  This is a bad practice that I'm hoping to break with this message.  </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Also, and this is not just for those up for SFC promotion, a good leader of mine told me when I was a young PFC that I need to keep up with my OMPF.  Granted I came into the military as an E-3 but I didn't really know a lot about the army let alone what an OMPF was.  So he sat me down, showed me where to find it and that I needed to ensure that my OMPF was updated and matched my ERB.  I have been doing this since then and needless to say, when my time for SFC consideration arrived, it didn't take me long at all to get things straight.  So please, keep up with all of your school certificates, awards, civilian education, evaluations, etc.  Anything that goes on your ERB needs to be in your OMPF also.  It'll be a lot easier to keep up as you go along rather than try and remember/dig up what you've done a few years ago.  </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Also, stay on your S1/G1/J1 because in the end, it's your record not theirs.  I hope this helps...</p>

2014-02-04T22:26:56-05:00 2014-02-04T22:26:56-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 51472

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>CSM, </p><p>Good info to know. Thanks!</p>

2014-02-04T22:37:15-05:00 2014-02-04T22:37:15-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 51601

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>CSM Hockenberry,</p><p>Thank you for the down and dirty NCOPD on the board. </p>

2014-02-05T03:18:29-05:00 2014-02-05T03:18:29-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 52019

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM,<br /> The points you made are very helpful tips. I understand how the Army has leaned towards being that competitive organization and how one needs to constantly improve. I think many get frustrated when they've put their all into achieving the next level but no guidance really explains their deficiencies. I really appreciate the mentorship and counseling from the senior level.

2014-02-05T17:18:57-05:00 2014-02-05T17:18:57-05:00 1LT Private RallyPoint Member 52129

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I appreciate you putting down your methodology in writing so we can get an inside look at what is otherwise digested as "the board, the AAR, and the six-point-system."<br><br>Question:  I am sure you talked to your fellow board members.  Did you find a common ground on how you rated people and did they use similar criteria or was the entire affair a rather mixed bag?  I am trying to see if different Sergeants Majors and senior Officers from different CMFs still share a vision of what a DA select NCO should be at the respective level they're voting for.

2014-02-05T19:56:09-05:00 2014-02-05T19:56:09-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 67659

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM, please elaborate on Para. 3 sec. vii (Assignment Information).  My ERB is up to date with everything you mention.  However, you said "times in a combat zone identified in parentheses as (IZ/AF or others FWD) and that it matched your OS/Deployment Combat Duty info."  My ERB has all my duty assignments with the matching duty positions, but my combat and humanitarian deployments are only listed in my "OS/Deployment Combat Duty" section of the ERB.  While I am not yet board eligible for MSG, I would like to get this rectified sooner rather than later.  Thank you.

2014-03-02T08:54:37-05:00 2014-03-02T08:54:37-05:00 CSM Michael Poll 67660

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM is absolutly correct, I do the exact same things, but let me also add, Make sure your packet is up to date.  EXAMPLE:  An NCO looking for E-7 has an NCOER in his file stating "Recived Bachelors degree from XYZ University with honors of Magna Cum Laude."  Yet in the file, no degree, transcripts or certifitace recieved for the honors. Be sure your records are upto date!!!

2014-03-02T08:56:57-05:00 2014-03-02T08:56:57-05:00 SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL 67781

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is a good discussion, I wish my Chain of Responsibility would have looked at my record, I got passed up again for the MSG board, I found out that my DA photo was jacked up...my GWOTEM had a two on it, that little mistake might have caused me, who knows....just saying.  A double take would not hurt at all.

2014-03-02T12:54:20-05:00 2014-03-02T12:54:20-05:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 67831

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>Thank you CSM for your advice and words of wisdom.. hope everyone on the board panel thought the way you did.  I guess I will find out here in a couple weeks! </p><p><br></p><p><br>AATW!! </p>

2014-03-02T14:08:46-05:00 2014-03-02T14:08:46-05:00 SGM Matthew Quick 67845

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Thank you, CSM Hockenberry.<br><br>These types of personal AARs should be a standard for all centralized board members...these may serve as the single most important NCOPD for centralized promotion boards.<br><br>How one thinks or 'grades' a record can change one's approach on their own view on records.

2014-03-02T14:26:17-05:00 2014-03-02T14:26:17-05:00 CW2 Private RallyPoint Member 67856

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Thanks CSM for your words of wisdom. I am a young E6 but will continue to make sure my records are correct and up to date before my look comes.

2014-03-02T14:37:20-05:00 2014-03-02T14:37:20-05:00 CW2 Private RallyPoint Member 67857

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Thanks CSM for your words of wisdom. I am a young E6 but will continue to make sure my records are correct and up to date before my look comes.

2014-03-02T14:37:24-05:00 2014-03-02T14:37:24-05:00 MSG Sean Hendricks 67891

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The mark of a true leader is one that leads from the front.  CSM, you are a NCO's NCO. Thanks for sharing without reservation. Hooah...

2014-03-02T15:29:58-05:00 2014-03-02T15:29:58-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 68981

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM Hockenberry:<br><br>     Thank You so much for a true inside look at how an individual looks at a Soldier's record.  All I have ever received is the group sit down where the board AAR is read to us which we can get from HRC.  <br>     As a former Artillery guy I am now in an even more competitive MOS as a 92R.  I also have a break in service where I was in the National Guard.  I did have the prior service put on the ERB.<br>     I did find it difficult for individuals at the S-1 and Soldier Support Center to complete their job and update the ERB properly.  <br>     Thank You for your Mentoring.<br><br>Respectfully,<br><br>SSG Fay<br>

2014-03-03T22:44:31-05:00 2014-03-03T22:44:31-05:00 SFC Aaron Calmes 68991

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Best explanation I have ever seen CSM. I always read the AARs but when none of the major issues apply to you you're always wondering what else could you have done. I've always asked my 1SG what he looks for at a board but I always feel CSMs are looking for something way different than 1SGs are looking for at the E-5/E-6 board.<br /><br />Makes me wish the different CSMs throughout Brigades/Groups would do kind of a mock board for their soldiers to review E-7 and up ERBs, photos, NCOERS, etc.

2014-03-03T23:13:18-05:00 2014-03-03T23:13:18-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 69362

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM, thank you for the advice and pointers. I wish this site would have been around 4-5 years ago then I may have learned a lot of this then instead of as I'm on the way out. Unfortunately, I am being forced out because of the RCP. I have to agree with SFC Whisenat below with his frustrations. I will admit I don't have the things he does but I'm still a good NCO, care for the Soldiers and unit, and I do my job. I know of many others just like him (some even better) who still can't get selected, but then there are many who are significantly worse yet get picked up. Very confusing and frustrating.

2014-03-04T13:58:09-05:00 2014-03-04T13:58:09-05:00 SFC Robert Putzer 72579

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM Hockenberry,<div><br></div><div>     This is the most poignant advice I've ever heard or read on the subject.  I respectfully ask that you put this into an email and have the AKO folks send to all.</div><div><br></div><div>     Thank you for taking the time to spell it out; it answered many questions that I and some of my Soldiers have had.</div><div><br></div><div>Very Respectfully,</div><div>SFC P.</div>

2014-03-09T19:59:05-04:00 2014-03-09T19:59:05-04:00 SGM Private RallyPoint Member 74938

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><p>CSM HOCKENBERRY</p><p> </p><p>Good to see your still getting after it. I'm relatively new to RP so I'm still learning my way around the site. I sat on the MSG Board a couple of years ago and the advice you put out on this thread is great. Since sitting on the MSG Board I put together an NCODP that I give to all my Troops so they understand the board process. Sitting on a DA Level Selection Board is an eye-opening experience. </p><p> </p><p>Just to share with everyone out there, here's the only things I would add to the original post. First of all if you dont thoroughly scrub your records you are short changing yourself. Ensure you have valid transcripts to support any and all Civilian Education as well as Military Training in your records. It's causes me to cast doubt on you when I view your records and your ERB states you have 300+ (no exaggeration) semester hours of college yet, no transcripts to support that claim. Doubt is also cast when I see Appointed Duties on your NCOER that state SHARP REP, MRT, EO REP etc.. and again, no certificate of training to support your certification.</p><p> </p><p>One last thing, we have failed across the board when it comes to honest evaluations on NCOERs. Once again, I'm not exaggerating when I say this, easily 95% of the NCOERs that I reviewed showed the Rated NCO as AMONG THE BEST with the usual bullets stating "Promote immediately", "Promote ahead of peers", "If there is only one slot availabe for promotion it should go to this NCO", etc.....</p><p> </p><p>GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF YOU AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR TROOPS!!!!</p>

2014-03-13T00:25:46-04:00 2014-03-13T00:25:46-04:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 95300

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM,<div><br></div><div>This has been one of the most informative personal AARs and I truly appreciate you taking the time to post it.  You addressed one of my biggest questions. I asked a few of my senior NCOs if they would look in my restricted file and the answer varied between "no" and "*shrug* I don't think so...", I always got the response "Why does it matter? You mess up?". I would tell them the truth and say "Yes, I made a bad decision and it's in my restricted file." I always get the same response after that "Well, back in my day, resiliency was an important attribute, you couldn't make SFC without getting in trouble first". At times I wanted them to look at it just so they would see that I did show resiliency and learned from my mistake but I also know things are different today. </div><div><br></div><div>Now that it's a reality they will see it, I'm a bit more nervous than I was before... </div><div><br></div><div>But, I made my bed and now I've got to lay in it.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you again CSM.</div><div> <br><br /></div>

2014-04-06T22:03:46-04:00 2014-04-06T22:03:46-04:00 MAJ Steve Sheridan 109159

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Wow, great stuff, thanks for sharing.

2014-04-23T15:27:12-04:00 2014-04-23T15:27:12-04:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 137257

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Wow finally a strait shooter. I appreciate your information on this subject. I however think that is the wrong answer involving mustaches. How can you not give points or recommendation on something that is in regulation and is worn properly just because you don't like it? All the other information you put out is a great guidance. Thank you.

2014-05-28T20:05:28-04:00 2014-05-28T20:05:28-04:00 SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member 194489

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>CSM Timothy Hockenberry. Thank you for the detailed view of how the board works through your perspective. When I worked in the S-1 I had the privilege of organizing and working on the promotion board, hearing the discussion back and forth on packets but not really sure what it all meant. And with my packet now in for E-5 and still looking years ahead within the military I have a better understanding of what I'll be evaluated on. All of which makes sense, detailed and concise.

2014-08-05T00:29:55-04:00 2014-08-05T00:29:55-04:00 SSG V. Michelle Woods 245357

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="45001" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/45001-46r-public-affairs-broadcast-specialist">SFC Private RallyPoint Member</a> THIS is the thread I was looking up! I told you Rally Point was awesome lol, we're going to make the best SGMs ever! :)

2014-09-17T19:04:35-04:00 2014-09-17T19:04:35-04:00 2014-02-04T17:00:47-05:00