Has anyone had any kind of luck with using their 5- or 10-point preference for Federal hiring?

2022-02-18T13:50:17-05:00

I got out of the Navy in 2007. I set up my USAJOBS in 2009, after I had my service connected disability. I was rated at 100% from 2010 to 2018 and 80% overall since 2019 (long story), and so I get 10-point preference -- or so they say. In 13 years, I've only ever had one interview, and that was a couple of years ago. I've followed all the tips and tricks they tell you for making sure your application matches the job description and duties. I just can't seem to break past that initial barrier to get a hiring manager to even return an email.

It's discouraging, and I can't seem to take the idea of veteran's preference as anything more than a bald-faced lie just meant to keep us from despairing of ever getting hired.

Response by SGT Matthew S. made Feb 18 at 2022 8:53 PM

2022-02-18T20:53:35-05:00

I've lost track of the number of jobs I've applied to through USAJOBS over the years; never once even got anywhere close to an interview. From what I've sen and had numerous people more familiar with the system than I tell me, it's all about your resume matching the keywords for the specific posting. Hopefully someone can provide some more helpful suggestions; good luck in your search!

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Feb 18 at 2022 9:32 PM

2022-02-18T21:32:11-05:00

I was a senior hiring manager for many years. Most don't understand what veterans preference actually does. BTW hiring managers won't call because it isn't their job. The HR rep handling the action does the up and down lifting. VP increases the possibility in moving an applicant from "qualified" to "highly qualified". You have to collectively score more than whatever the cut off to wind up in the group. So if 3-5 candidates have a higher score than you in the highly qualified group, you won't be with them if there is a breakpoint. There are a lot of Series VP won't apply to; most of them being the professional series like engineers, doctors, scientists, etc. HR types will have to weigh in on more details because hiring managers only receive a "Cert" from HR that lists the applicants by category. That's the cover sheet for the resumes. Evaluations and selections are made according to a "Hiring Plan". It basically is a weighted score sheet that has values for the resume and interview. So if I read your synopsis correctly, that tells me you either never showed up on a Cert for the hiring manager, or you were in the qualified group. Hiring managers must exhaust all highly qualifieds before moving to the qualifieds.
All that said, of the Vets I saw on a Cert and then interviewed, most didn't pass muster. Main reason was poor communications skills. Other reasons included ghost writing and resume (padded) not matching the interview. In general, I recommend development positions like Career Ladders that bring you on board and train you up as you go. We hired many Vets that way in the GS-7/9/11 range, mostly as Contract Specialists. You do need to meet a degree requirement for that.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Feb 18 at 2022 11:30 PM

2022-02-18T23:30:08-05:00

Yes, I have had plenty of luck getting hired with my 10 point preference. If you aren't getting past the hiring manager this means there is something flagging you before you are even referred to HR to schedule an interview. This could be documentation, lack thereof, poor resume, date gaps in employment, lack of documented skills for respective position. These are the things that get weeded out before prospects are referred to HR and your veteran preference doesn't even get looked at during this portion because they are looking for basic requirements needed by all applicants.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2022 2:30 AM

2022-02-19T02:30:54-05:00

It takes a while to get into the system, plus it favors civilian education as well. On top of that a lot of the jobs are only open to people already within the system. GS employment is definitely set up to promote from within.

I think the problem most vets have is they apply for the job they think they should get, or that they think most matches their skill set. For a lot of people, you have to apply to the lowest GS position possible and then work your way up by applying to new jobs.

Good luck

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Feb 19 at 2022 12:24 PM

2022-02-19T12:24:10-05:00

Never worked for the Feds as a civilian. I was told, many moons ago, that being a vet got 5 points added to the civil service exam score and having a Purple Heart added 10. Not sure if that still true or ever was, just what I was told.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Feb 19 at 2022 6:41 PM

2022-02-19T18:41:22-05:00

If a test is given to a group of applicants and a scoring system on that test is used as the basis for hiring, 10 points would be added to your score. Very few federal jobs are filled that way anymore. Your best bet is to get onboard with a Veteran appt. Look for jobs that are in the Veteran only pool. Once onboard, shoot for the moon.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Feb 20 at 2022 1:32 PM

2022-02-20T13:32:37-05:00

I was a Department of the Army Civilian (DAC) for 6 years and a hiring manager for that time. I recruited and hired one GS13 and one GS12-13 (upward mobility), and one GS14. As one of four GS14s in the Staff Agency, I sat on resume review and interview panels for over 10 GS11 through GS14 positions.

The result of an opening announcement that you see in USAJobs is a list of candidates. The Agency's (command, department, directorate, etc.) human resources organization (G-1, S-1, HR Department) applies the veteran's preference rules to the list of candidates before it goes to the hiring manager. Disabled veterans are first on the list. Disabled veterans who have the barest of minimum qualifications for the job are at the top of the list. They cannot be bypassed without specific justification to the HR Department supported by the most senior person in the hiring Agency (General Officer, SES). Even then, the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) may overrule and require the Agency to offer the job to the Disabled Veteran.

The hiring manager (somebody like me) is faced with a bit of a dilemma if the Disabled Veteran(s) are underqualified and will require extra resources to train them so they can become productive employees. As a veteran I wanted to hire my fellow veterans. I certainly didn't want to deny a disabled veteran a job. On the other hand, we didn't have extensive resources to train and educate civilian employees. The hiring manager can play "job offer roulette" with the Disabled Veterans. In our case, many people living on the coasts didn't want to move to the middle of the country, so we could offer them a job and they would almost always turn it down. You could then consider the other job applicants. If the Disabled Veteran accepted your offer and volunteered to move to the middle of the country, then he or she was your new employee. The remainder of the job applicants were listed by other groupings such as veterans, current government employees, non-government employees.

The job opening itself may limit those who can apply. Some jobs are open to "any US Citizen." These are the most open jobs and often mean there has been no success in finding an employee in previous more restrictive job announcements. Many jobs are open only to veterans and current government employees; even more limiting are jobs open only to employees of the sponsoring Service, command, or agency. The job announcements may have specific experience, education, or qualification requirements. These effect Disabled Veteran applicants only slightly. The fact the job announcement says applicants must have a specific qualification or education level will not prevent anybody from applying for the job and will not prevent the HR Department from putting an unqualified Disabled Veteran on the list. Once past the Disabled Veterans, the hiring manager may then eliminate candidates who do not meet required education, experience, or qualification requirements. If the announcement states candidates must have a bachelor's degree and 4 years specific experience booking ocean cargo, then the hiring manager can eliminate candidates who don't meet those requirements. If your application makes it past the opening hurdles, then your resume goes to a review process.

Resumes are reviewed by either the hiring manager alone or by a panel of employees who score the resumes against job criteria. The HR Department often leads this activity and requires a consensus evaluation of each resume. The hiring manager then uses the review panel scores to decide whom to interview.

The hiring manager sets up interviews. Often a panel of three or more employees conducts the interview. The interview questions are selected in advance. Normally the exact same question is asked by the exact same panel member to each interviewee. The panel scores the interviewees' responses to the questions. The hiring manager then works with the HR Department to select the best qualified person based on their resume and interview.

After that, the HR Department will collect any additional information from the top few (3) candidates such as copies of DD214, college transcripts, and request a background check. If the candidates check out, then the hiring manager can be authorized to make a job offer to the top candidate. If they accept the offer, then the person is hired. If they decline, then the next person down the list gets and offer.

In all I found the process took about 8 to 12 months from an employee leaving a job to the time we had a new employee on the job. Not trained and qualified, just a person in the position.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Feb 21 at 2022 9:39 AM

2022-02-21T09:39:07-05:00

I have used vet preference for both a federal job (USPS) and a state job (Tennessee). But both jobs I had to be qualified to begin with. And both jobs I likely would have been hired without it - because I was already highly qualified.

My current state job, we are DESPARATELY trying to fill positions. Of the applications that come in for each opening, 60% do not meet qualifications. The other 40% get interviews - and usually another 20% of the "unqualified" applicants who are NEARLY qualified, because MAYBE something will come out in the interview that covers their gap. The Vet preference folks are most likely to fall into the "nearly qualified but still interviewed" category.

Of the 40-60% who get interviews, half don't bother to show up, and 1/3 had padded the resume, so weren't actually qualified.

When I did my interview, I didn't think I had said anything truly remarkable. I even told them that I had no experience in the field; didn't have any particular passion for the field, the agency, or the state; and only applied because Indeed.com asked me to. And I got hired.

We often post jobs that go unfilled because after the interviews, we are left with 0 qualified applicants. If I interviewed and said I didn't even really want THAT job, I just wanted A job, and got picked up, that tells you what they consider "qualified.".

If you are not even getting call backs, it is because your resume does not match the qualifications. I have had similar problems with USA Jobs. I have applied to jobs that were almost identical to positions I have filled in the Army. I highlighted those specific positions and skills. No call back.

A federal resume for USA Jobs is COMPLETELY different from a normal resume. It is entirely possible you have all of the skills, attributes, and experience they are looking for. But if you didn't put it in their specific format with the right specific keywords, you won't be listed as "qualified." And if you aren't qualified, your vet preference won't matter.

If you are SERIOUS about wanting to get a GS type job, I would highly recommend going to a career center (to include a Navy transition center, if you have access) and ask for help with writing a federal resume for USA Jobs. And DON'T THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN THEY DO. (Which I, personally, did when I was transitioning, mostly because I knew what job I was going in to, and did not need to worry about it. But after getting shot at that job, suddenly I need to worry about it.) If they tell you that your job as the chief grand high master of the boiler room should be listed as "general labor" list it as general labor. If they tell you that your job as seaman basic swapping the deck should be listed as "customer experience engineer" list it as customer experience engineer. If they tell you to list hours per week or rate of pay, don't just say "varies" or "salaried," make a good estimate of what it averages out to. Etc.

And then, after all of that, once you have your resume, take it to a DIFFERENT career center to have them review your resume. If possible, an actual hiring manager for GS type jobs - even if it isn't the field you are interested in - is even better so they can look at your formatting and general language usage. Federal resumes all look more or less the same; the specific experience and qualifications change, but the verbiage, language, and formatting do not.

Hope that is helpful.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 22 at 2022 5:25 PM

2022-02-22T17:25:44-05:00

After 30 + in the Army then 10 as a Senior Manage for government, I have seen many and hired multiple. There are many factors tied to those points. One has to score hi enough in the organizations scale for the points to hold any great value. I have seen many resumes woefully la king and the individual asking why they didn’t get an interview.

I am not saying this reflects on you, only you know the system does work, I speculate on average over 30 % of my civilian hires were former military. You also have to remember you are also facing off with many other vets each time you compete. It is best to have a mentor in the system when initially trying to break into Federal positions. Have you sought support with the Veteran network in Linked In? There are many still active in the workforce willing to assist.