Has anyone noticed that male NCOs have a problem telling female Soldiers that their hair is not within regulation?

2014-03-26T14:41:39-04:00

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2014 2:49 PM

2014-03-26T14:49:03-04:00

It would seem that way due mostly to the fact that they are afraid it will result in a EO visit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2014 3:43 PM

2014-03-26T15:43:19-04:00

I have seen male NCOs tell a female Soldier that their hair was not in compliance with the regs.  I think the problem lies in the fact that many male NCOs don't know or aren't familiar with the female standards in the regulation.  It would be difficult to call out something that doesn't comply with Army regulation if you don't know what the regulation is!  As NCOs, we need to know what the standards are and enforce those standards.  If we don't know, then we go look it up!

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Apr 11 at 2014 11:04 PM

2014-04-11T23:04:18-04:00

The problem is 'education'.

Just like anything else, if a Soldier is educated on a subject, they can speak more intelligently on it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 12:23 AM

2014-04-12T00:23:18-04:00

Shouldn't just be females under the spot light. I see more males breaking regs than females.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 1:10 AM

2014-04-12T01:10:00-04:00

Being a female I have major issues with the lack of care that females put into their hair. They wear it like they are trying to look cute in uniform. I have spoken to many of my peers about this and they all seem to notice when a female's hair looks horrible and is very much out of regulation, but they are afraid that if they bring it up that they will have an EO complaint or a SHARP violation thrown their way. I have also seen male NCO's that do go and correct female Soldiers and get blown off. The female tries to spin 670-1 so that she is within regs and I don't think that males understand the standard enough to fight back. I think that the new 670-1 with pictures will help leadership overall keep females to the standards that are expected of them. <div><br></div><div>If you have a female Soldier and you can tell that she goes out of her way to make her hair look "cute", do her a favor and pull her to the side. When I spoke to a group of ROTC females, I asked them if they think that their uniform makes them look cute or if it flatters them? Of course all of them said no. I then asked them why they try to make their hair look cute when they do not look attractive in uniform? None of them had a good answer. I explained that as service members we are to look as alike as possible and that we are supposed to make sure that we can operate safely while in uniform. Having cute bangs or head gear that does not fit properly is not safe. Maybe this will help your young female Soldiers understand why the regulation is the way it is.</div>

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Apr 12 at 2014 7:53 AM

2014-04-12T07:53:08-04:00

As long you’re aligned with Reg, and your being a
professional you shouldn't have an issue with telling any soldier to correct
themselves.

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made Apr 12 at 2014 7:53 AM

2014-04-12T07:53:57-04:00

I agree that knowing the regs on this is super important.
But as a retired MSGT I found I very unnerving to correct a female just for the fact that I would get a vist from the EO, and unfortunately it happened to me as a young Lcpl in the Corps and from that time on I was very very careful

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 8:03 AM

2014-04-12T08:03:25-04:00

MSG Bailey,

I have to agree with the others - its education. I would point out that IF THEY WOULD NOT CHANGE the reg less than two weeks after it was published, we might have better luck.

Also, its not just males needing education, its females too. I am a paralegal and not a new SFC but I must have checked and measured my Soldier's bun four times in the last two weeks - to make sure she was right and that she didn't need to be corrected. That's ridiculous. What was neat in appearance and professional no longer matters.

Finally, I am so glad that the Army finally issued me long hair :-). I have been trying to get my shoulder length hair to "long" for years and overnight I did it! YAY me! :-)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 3:27 PM

2014-04-12T15:27:51-04:00

Yes, I have some NCOs that are willing to make the correction in the Soldier, but are scared of EO, SHARP or other compliant being dropped against them. I do have one SSG that if we are on shift he will either find a battle buddy, me or the other PSG and make the correction.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2014 3:52 PM

2014-04-12T15:52:41-04:00

How often does a junior leader attempt to correct a more senior leader and just gets blown off? I have seen it all over here and even attempted to correct a few soldiers because myself and fellow TLs have read the updated AR670-1. We were told "roger" or "don't worry about it" or my favorite "to stay in our lane". As leaders is our job to enforce the standards, but that is difficult to do when more senior leaders simply blow the regulations off.

Response by SFC Rob Wayman made Apr 13 at 2014 6:48 AM

2014-04-13T06:48:07-04:00

Having had EO complaints due to correcting female Soldiers, I am hesitant to correct a Female Soldier. Add to it that with the new additions to 670-1, and this may just be me but it's not easy to "get it right". Does this mean I am a poopy NCO? No but it does mean that I need to be better versed on the regulation as far as authorized hairstyles go. I should NOT be concerned with correcting Soldiers who are in violation but the fact of the matter is, we have become an Army of cry babies when it comes to complaints. If a Soldier gets his/her feelings hurt, then the NCO is wrong.....THATs what I have a serious problem with but that's a conversation for another day.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2014 12:15 AM

2014-11-27T00:15:46-05:00

The first issue is many people do not read the regulations or understand them. Some only read the regulations when it pertains to them and not those around them. I have seen NCOs correct females before on their hair and nails. I also have seen some male NCOs ask some high speed females to ensure that the regulation change did not change what they feel is being violated and if they are correct they will correct the Soldier themselves.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Nov 27 at 2014 9:15 AM

2014-11-27T09:15:50-05:00

I know i was told one time i needed to correct a women hair and earring that where not with in regs. well the problem is i did not know it. So i corrected it then after that i went and read up on it i did not realize that i was deficient with the regs.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Dec 9 at 2014 11:42 PM

2014-12-09T23:42:58-05:00

As a jr NCO, I found it was pointless to point these things out when senior, Staff NCO's won't back you.

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made Sep 15 at 2015 7:46 PM

2015-09-15T19:46:02-04:00

It is because we would be called racist or against women. We were told that 1SGs would take care of it. But the race thing is the biggest issue. I have seen senior NCOs not in standard. But nothing could or would be said. See what happened when the Army changed the regs? It became a race issue because "our hair is different so leave us alone". Coould get someone in trouble faster than sharp!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2015 8:16 PM

2015-09-15T20:16:55-04:00

I don't have a problem with it. I think the problem with a lot of NCO's, not just male NCO's, is that they are not well versed enough with AR670-1 and FM670-1 to have a leg to stand on when it comes to making the correction. So many of our NCO's these days are perfectly comfortable with being hearsay regulation leaders. We need to get in the books and learn just what it is that makes our Army function and stop being so reliant on folklore passed down from mediocre leaders who haven't put in the effort to learn the regs. We have a plethora of options to dig into the manuals and regulations with, not just the old paper back versions of regulations and manuals. USE THEM!

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Feb 18 at 2023 9:57 AM

2023-02-18T09:57:51-05:00

YES... Especially When It's Long Flowing, Braided Black Hair
From Under Both Arm Pits.