Has the Army Reserve stopped doing lateral appointments from SPC to CPL?

2020-10-10T22:00:19-04:00

I had heard from my detachment NCO that our BN S-1 pushed back a 4187 that was submitted for a SPC to CPL action, on the basis that "the Army Reserve is not doing CPL promotions anymore." Now I'm not HR, but I definitely did my research in AR 600-8-19, the HRC website, and USARC G-1 for any policy changes and cannot find a single thing that supports this claim. I have seen plenty of CPLs in TOE or TDAs, and an FRST shouldn't be any different.

The basis for request was justified as the Soldier is 1) serving in an NCO role in an E-5 slot, 2) and cannot attend BLC at this time because he will be deploying in that above role and is essentially the ATLS NCOIC or Senior Medic.

Can anyone confirm or deny this claim that CPL is no longer an option for leadership to set apart a junior enlisted who have been been tasked with a leadership role and occupy that position on the UMR?

Response by SSG Brian G. made Oct 10 at 2020 10:16 PM

2020-10-10T22:16:34-04:00

Sounds like a BN S-1 needs to back up that statement with a directive letter. Cpl is a valid rank for the reserve just as it is RA.

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Oct 10 at 2020 10:18 PM

2020-10-10T22:18:45-04:00

Excellent question CPT Private RallyPoint Member! I was Army ADMIN and the only lateral orders I ever published were in Infantry units and that was 1986-87...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2020 10:19 PM

2020-10-10T22:19:46-04:00

Interesting. This would be the first I've heard of it. AR 600-8-19 (Enlisted Promotions and Reductions) dated May 2019 still mentions appointments to CPL in para 1-23. I'm unable to find an ALARACT or anything to state otherwise.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Oct 10 at 2020 11:10 PM

2020-10-10T23:10:58-04:00

I’ve been retired forever, CPT Private RallyPoint Member, so maybe things have changed, but I always thought that the position of corporal was MTOE driven. In other words, if the MTOE called for a corporal, then a specialist would be laterally appointed to corporal upon assumption of the position. Also, when I was a company commander, decisions about E-4s and below belonged to me. It would have never gone to battalion for disposition.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2020 11:59 PM

2020-10-10T23:59:58-04:00

The claim by your BN S1 is generally not a thing. CPL is almost always available, especially on the conditions that you mentioned. I have seen, however, memos from BDE level and above stating that lateral promotions shouldn’t be done unless certain additional conditions are met. That being said, if the AR says I can promote up to E4 and laterally to Corporal, I’m going to do it for a deserving Soldier.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2020 12:22 AM

2020-10-11T00:22:08-04:00

Sounds like S1 is throwing a bullshit line to cover up their inability to do their job.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2020 1:15 AM

2020-10-11T01:15:48-04:00

Unfortunately this is very true, at least under the 200th MPC, thus makes me believe other commands under USARC are doing the same. CSM’s at all levels pushing out that CPL’s will not be in “their” formations. They believe that if an E4 is going to serve in a leadership position, then they need to go to BLC and become an E5. It is flawed logic, I know. I believe another part of this is that many units do not laterally appointment CPL’s back to SPC when they are no longer in a leadership position. This turns into, “If you can’t do it right, then let’s take it away.”

Response by Wayne Soares made Oct 11 at 2020 7:12 AM

2020-10-11T07:12:00-04:00

Thanks for the question LT Coy

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2020 10:31 AM

2020-10-11T10:31:11-04:00

As of 1 JAN 2016, when the Army implemented Select, Train, Educate, Promote (STEP, Army Directive 2015-31 and ALARACT 143/2015), lateral appoint to CPL was relegated to E4s selected for promotion to E5, who were transferred to their promotion position but still had to complete BLC. Lateral appointment to CPL was effective the day of the transfer and held until BLC complete, or lateraled back to SPC and moved back to an E4 position if BLC was not complete by the deadline or otherwise lost promotable status.
Sadly, neither AR 600-8-19 nor 614-200 were updated to reflect that, they both still contain the previous paragraphs about lateral appointment.

I don't see the "flawed logic" in "that if an E4 is going to serve in a leadership position, then they need to go to BLC and become an E5."
If an E4 is going to serve in a leadership position, they absolutely should complete the Basic Leader Course. Especially considering the fact that it has never been easier to complete BLC, an E4 merely needs to sit on the couch and open a laptop, at least for the foreseeable COVID future.
An E4 should only occupy an E5 position for the minimum time required for that E4 or any other eligible E4 in that MOS to complete the requirements for promotion and promote to that position.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2020 6:00 PM

2020-10-11T18:00:54-04:00

Doesn’t make much sense to me. As an officer I would be talking with no first shirt and if he/she felt someone was worthy of the stripes but had not completed BLC then I would sign off on someone getting CPL and get some extra leadership duties to nurture those leadership skills while they completed BLC.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2020 8:36 AM

2020-10-12T08:36:18-04:00

I've always wondered why anyone would want to be a CPL. All the responsibility and duties of a SGT with the same pay as a SPC. I've never seen anyone pick up E5 faster just because they spent time as a CPL. The demands to benefits ratio just doesn't make it seem worth it.

I spent 8 months as a USAF buck SGT (equivalent to army CPL) and I got worked like a rented mule while all the SRAs were chilling.

It's just always seemed to me like the Army's way of getting an extra NCO without having to pay for it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2020 2:15 PM

2020-10-12T14:15:15-04:00

Not just anyone can be a CPL. Per the regs to get CPL stripes:
1) an E5 billet has to be vacant with no other E5's on the UMR that could fill the position
2) the E4 in said billet has to be MOS qualified
3) the E4 can't be flagged of course

All in all, it's just moot. Anyone able to promote to CPL could probably easily promote to SGT in the USAR.

My 1SG wanted to do this for a soldier, and we did, but at the end of it I was just left wondering why the SM just didn't submit a promotion packet to SGT.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Oct 12 at 2020 2:52 PM

2020-10-12T14:52:50-04:00

Major Problem maybe indeed that S1 is lazy. But check you UMR, there are only so many slots for each rank, I think I so 2 CPL's in my career in the IN. Saw several in non combat MOS's, but they were a rarity even when acting as TL's

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2020 1:33 PM

2020-10-13T13:33:05-04:00

This is untrue.
However, if you go to a line unit, you will see actual E-4 Team leader positions. That is not the case in most Reserve units.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2020 1:54 PM

2020-10-13T13:54:04-04:00

Sir:
Is the unit MTOE'd for CPLs? If the unit has no designated CPL slots, then S-1 cannot "make" one. If the unit does have CPL slots, then yes, bring it higher.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2020 10:38 AM

2020-10-31T10:38:46-04:00

I was promoted to CPL in August 2019 via recommendation by an O-6, so I’d definitely say it’s still an option that can be done.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2020 10:20 PM

2020-11-01T22:20:02-05:00

Its false. The regs still allow for CPLs and my det did two lateral promotions to CPL in sections where there were no NCOs. Nobody ever questioned it.