Has the deglamorization of alcohol hindered the development of camaraderie and team building efforts at the small unit level?

LTC Mark Gavula — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:47:03 -0400

During my company grade officer time (O1 – O3), major commands endorsed and scheduled on a training schedule “Bring Your Boss’” and “Right Arm Nights,” which were always standing room only events. The CG, CSM, and G Staff made appearances and made a few remarks. I thought they were always great espirit, and team building events. It provided an opportunity to socialize with my Officers and NCOs outside the place of duty, meet other peers within the command, and meet senior leaders within the command. Since the end of the Desert Shield/Desert Storm the conduct of these events have not been highly encouraged or not conducted at all. Has this hurt the NCO - Officer relationship, hindered the development of camaraderie and espirit?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2014 11:22 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 11:22:36 -0400

I'm not sure what the devil you mean LTC Mark Gavula . Small unit level team building should not be reliant on alcohol. Coming from an era where alcohol intake was the norm rather than the exception I can tell you the difference in unit cohesion is not dependant on alcohol - it's dependant on the interworking and networking of the troops. Officers and NCO's can learn to communicate in a more relaxed manner without the alcohol, but it takes (a) the Officers understanding when to accept the less formal method of communication and (b) the NCO's understanding and maintaining the why, where, when and who of the lesser formal communications. As always, it's up to both the NCO's and Officers to understand and accept the need. Some officers never get it.....

Response by MAJ Bill Darling made Oct 4 at 2014 11:44 AM

MAJ Bill Darling — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 11:44:02 -0400

I think it has. Despite the derogatory term "mandatory fun" I think a lot of bonding and good socializing comes out of after hours get-togethers. Never mind that the deglamorization was itself a mixed message (career ending DUI/DWI and/or inappropriate relationships at the same time there was high pressure to use the O/E-Clubs), in my first assignment from what resembled a deployed environment (ROK), with a very tight knit group, to a 9-to-5 at Bragg job in which people never saw each other after COB in my next. It was night and day.
Sure there are problems associated with alcohol, but I think the pendulum swung too far the other way by the time I separated.

Response by PO1 John Pokrzywa made Oct 4 at 2014 2:39 PM

PO1 John Pokrzywa — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:39:30 -0400

I feel it has definitely reduced camaraderie. The deglamorization program has gone to the point that rather than unwind and (gasp) have a beer or two with people from the unit who in much more serious situations they trust to look out for them, people instead go off by themselves, unsupervised, with people who often couldn't care less. Officers and senior enlisted alike are forced to live in a puritanical false reality, as if other people in their unit weren't the ones who might save their lives later, but we're instead potential career-ending lepers. Hence why the rise, I think, in alcohol or other drug related incidents. Joe civilian, who doesn't have random urinalysis, is quite happy to pass the spice, marijuana, or worse, but hey, at least we didn't let the troops have a beer with brothers and sisters they may have to fight alongside.
If you can't safely have a beer with the people who may be tightening your tourniquet one day, something is wrong.
I'm all for deglamorization, but only to a point. It shouldn't be the center of activities, but neither should making it unavailable, either. Moderation is good, abstinence? Seems like you don't want to let your hair down with the troops. Keep help available, but complete bans only serve to make parties away from work more desirable, and camaraderie suffers.
My thoughts, anyway.

Response by 1SG Ronald Philips made Oct 4 at 2014 2:59 PM

1SG Ronald Philips — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 14:59:10 -0400

In my time in, the unit would have BBQ's and picnics that were unit functions. The party usually included wife, girlfriends and was more of an organized off duty gathering.

When we had our out of the FTX or RTB party, it was just a celebration by the participates and was for a job well done.

I don't know if they still do the above but they were great unit and section events that really allowed old and new personnel to meet out of uniform and have fun.

Response by COL Randall C. made Oct 4 at 2014 5:54 PM

COL Randall C. — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 17:54:43 -0400

LTC Mark Gavula, I can understand your view that the pendulum has swung away from 'alcohol is encouraged', past a neutral point to an 'alcohol is discouraged' point now. As it is with everything in this litigious society, things have gone from 'personal responsibility' to 'someone else is responsible for your actions'. As such, policies have been put in effect that minimize those actions (while I don't like the situation we are in now, I can't disagree with the leadership's approach which is basically "if YOUR actions are going to negatively affect ME, then I'm going to minimize my risk by curtailing what you can do")

I do agree with PO1 Private RallyPoint Member is that team building doesn't need to be reliant upon alcohol, but I don't feel that we should go into the abstinence area that PO1 John Pokrzywa mentioned either. It shouldn't matter if your drink of choice is water, tea, soda or beer in a social setting, but it does. If you down a six-pack of water, tea, or soda it's not going to contribute to your wrapping the car around a tree (unless you neglected to visit the facilities before you left).

Punish those that can't drink responsibly? Yes. Deglamorize it? Yes. Impact everyone with policies because of those that can't be responsible? No. Make it 'unwelcome'? No.

Unfortunately, until we have a culture that swings back towards personal responsibility instead of blaming others because you made a poor choice, I don't see the current policies/view being changed.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Oct 4 at 2014 10:44 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 04 Oct 2014 22:44:28 -0400

Interesting Question. It was a significant part of the Military Culture while I was in and I do wonder what has happened with the Deglamorization of it.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 20 at 2015 7:48 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Mon, 20 Jul 2015 19:48:43 -0400

IMHO, yes. The new Army is like watching a bunch of girl scout events. If they were any more boring I would bring my sleeping bag to them.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jul 29 at 2015 3:50 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Wed, 29 Jul 2015 15:50:17 -0400

Hello Brother,

I enlisted in 66 into the almost "Brown boot army". That was a drinking, cussing, woman chasing army. The army changed through the years and was different when I retired in 00. At Fort Knox, as you know, there wheree command happy hours were "you will attend and you will have a good time". This we were a lot of fun and you got to unwind with your buddies. They could also get wild. If you've ever spent time at the Infantry Bar at Benning, in the old days, you saw wild.

The de-glamorization of alcohol has affected the army. We got the religion. We have the PT Nazis, frowning on anything but running. The loss of officer clubs and establishment of community clubs has had an effect on camaraderie. The old axiom "familiarity breeds contempt" comes to mind. The fact that drinking can cause negative feed back on an OER is another deterrent.

This is a new generation and new ideas are not always good ones. It was better when soldiers could be soldiers.

Stay on the tank.