Has the military gotten to far away from the Warrior Culture?

2016-10-29T00:18:45-04:00

Should we have more leaders such as real- world Gen Patton and LtGen Puller and fictitious Col Jessup (A Few Good Men) and GySgt Tom Highway (Heartbreak Ridge) or have the days of "Rough men standing ready to do violence to the enemy" passed into history? Can there be an effective blend of "sensitivity for others" and "warrior ethos" without compromise of combat capability?

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Oct 29 at 2016 12:34 AM

2016-10-29T00:34:42-04:00

As long as New Agers see the US military as a hand holding and song singing social experimental place. Not, a prepare to fight and win war place. There is very little room for real men. But, don't worry MSgt, after this election the PC nonsense should be over and we can get back to being Americans. Not globalists.
M. Morris RVT

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Oct 29 at 2016 1:25 AM

2016-10-29T01:25:53-04:00

Got to get rid of the PC culture first.

Response by 1stSgt Nelson Kerr made Oct 29 at 2016 1:36 AM

2016-10-29T01:36:14-04:00

Patton would have ended up fired and retired in disgrace if he had lived the murderous stunt he pulleded sending hundreds of men deep behind the lines to rescue his son-in-law (just his son-in_law) from a the POW camp that resulted in hundred of dead would not have been able to be covered up. BTW: The kid Patton slapped had more time in combat thant Patton had his two two wars combined.

Puller was a great commander and does not deserve to be put in with the other two. He was brave to a fault but not interested at all in silyl BS like glory,

Jessup was a fictional character who was utterly insane and a great example of the worst of the US military ethos. he was written as such.

I would rather see folks like Ridgeway, Arnold Gavin, ,LeMay Bradley or Eisenhower used as examples of what a militarily leader should be. Pf Folk who w concentrated on getting the job doe and their people home safely i with the least drama rate than those worried about glory. There is a good reason that Patton ended up so far down the totem pole in Europe.

The emphasis on warrior ethos bugs me a bit, because with very few exception when armies of soldier meet armies of Warriors the o warrior end up dead, Armies are machines that grind their opponents to dust methodically, That has been the beast strategy since Rome used it to build an empire The US army has had that as it prime battle strategy since Sherman and Grants days and is very good at it. That stratagem is how we won WWII.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2016 7:16 AM

2016-10-29T07:16:53-04:00

The character of Jessup's a poor example. He's supposed to represent the unethical and egomaniacal. But Nicholson's performance makes him seem a tragic hero. Too few remember the film's line about protecting those who can't protect themselves. There's better examples out there for your question. Jessup's not admirable, just cinematic.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Oct 29 at 2016 9:36 AM

2016-10-29T09:36:17-04:00

Yes... Simply said... Yes.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2016 10:01 AM

2016-10-29T10:01:51-04:00

The Warrior Culture is still there. It's just that the Warriors are stuck in mandatory classes/briefings and trying to get their DTS approved.

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Oct 29 at 2016 10:04 AM

2016-10-29T10:04:26-04:00

I'll admit that it's been a while since I was a young, horny Infantry Sojer who thought he was going to live forever. But I do remember the old guys (we had an 18 year PFC in our section) lamenting the passage of the Brown Shoe Army, also known as the Real Army, and how those values and standards had been compromised by the change to black boots and golden chevrons. Things were just better in the old days. That must have been when the Warrior Culture was in bloom. Then we went off to war. And we had rules of engagement to deal with, at one point the term "dink" was found to be insulting to certain groups and we were no longer to refer to the locals, friendly or not, as such; during my third tour we were given instructions on the proper way to search females. Had a company in the 82d where we received direction that the term "Leg" was no longer acceptable and not to be used, so we coined the term "NAP" (non airborne personnel). How insensitive was that? So I suppose that all of that was before the transition back to the Warrior Culture where there was none of this PC crap that interferes with todays Soldier's ability to perform the mission.

Response by Col Val Finnell, MD, MPH made Oct 29 at 2016 10:43 AM

2016-10-29T10:43:22-04:00

Great movie. I think Jessup was a bad example of an officer in many ways, but he is a symbolic character of an older way of looking at things that did not fit with the cultural shifts that came in the military. In that sense, he is a tragic character.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 29 at 2016 11:35 AM

2016-10-29T11:35:05-04:00

Not Yet ... but its getting close... Just Get Congress out of the Chain Of Command...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2016 12:19 PM

2016-10-29T12:19:06-04:00

I think something needs to be said of leaders. I know a lot of old Joe's blame the young generation of Soldiers but I counter with this, who's teaching us?

There are bad NCO's and Officers just like there are bad Junior Enlisted. Don't get me wrong I hate my generation and the next one. Bunch of time wasting, gimme now, worthless fuck sticks. However this issue comes from both sides.

Something I think that needs to be stressed is the concept of being a Warrior. There are Soldiers out there who are MOS first not Soldier first and that's not how it's supposed to be. Regardless of job we are Soldiers first.

Do we all need to act like high speed killing machines all the time? No. We do need to realize that we did swear an oath to kill people in close combat if called upon.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2016 6:07 PM

2016-10-29T18:07:20-04:00

Go SOF. Most of the barrel chested freedom fighters in the military are already there.

Response by SPC Jon Gibson made Oct 29 at 2016 7:55 PM

2016-10-29T19:55:50-04:00

There is no such thing as a bad student, only a bad teacher.

A student can't learn to be become a bad teacher unless the previous teacher instructed the student wrong from the beginning.

If this cycle happens then it continues to happen until it is broken and discontinued just like any other broken training.

Response by SSG Will Phillips made Oct 30 at 2016 6:01 PM

2016-10-30T18:01:51-04:00

Social engineering should never have a place in the military. The job of the military is to protect our population and culture through high recruitment standards and hard effective training. Not lowering said standards to meet a political agenda and weakening our ability to defend our country or interests abroad.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2016 10:49 PM

2016-10-30T22:49:53-04:00

How is it that everyone forgets that while COL Jessup was good at giving a tough-guy soliloquy, he was hardly the hero of that story? He was a jackass who decided the UCMJ didn't apply to him and gave unlawful orders, leading to the death of one of his Marines. Emulating this type of "leadership" will only lead to more dead Service Members, whether they deploy to combat, or not.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Oct 31 at 2016 10:46 AM

2016-10-31T10:46:54-04:00

It's actually funny that you mention Col Jessup because in my opinion, I think the perception of him is based on whether or not the individual has actually served. I remember watching the movie when I was young and thinking of how despicable the character of Col Jessup was. He was the bad guy, Tom Cruise was the good guy, end of story.

Then I enlisted. I saw the movie again and I hated Tom Cruise but I respected Col Jessup. I think as service members we come to have a deeper appreciation of the type of person Col Jessup was.

To answer your question, no, I don't think the military has gone away from the warrior culture of previous generations. If we did, I would probably still think of Col Jessup as a bad guy.

I do not believe the days of rough men standing ready to take the fight to the enemy have passed. Warriors will always follow another warrior. You can see who the warriors are by those that they revere. I don't know about other branches, but Marines are brought up practically worshipping the warriors in our ranks.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Oct 31 at 2016 9:41 PM

2016-10-31T21:41:06-04:00

We've been fighting for over 15 years in two theaters of operation. Millions of American service members, "Rough men standing ready to do violence to the enemy," have gone to war and done so. There are will soon be people joining the military, an entire generation, who have known nothing else other than GWOT. By definition we have a well established warrior culture with some of the most combat experienced Americans living among us.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2016 10:16 PM

2016-10-31T22:16:19-04:00

To answer your question No , try to watch American Sniper it might be out on VHS tape. does a bear shit in the woods? What kind of question are you asking. Who do you think trains the "new warriors". We continuously evolve and improve just because your old doesn't mean a guy today had he been your age back then was any more of a force to be dealt with. If anything the guy today volunteered and was not drafted.

Response by Troy Bridge made Mar 8 at 2017 8:05 PM

2017-03-08T20:05:19-05:00

Yes we do

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 14 at 2019 8:39 PM

2019-08-14T20:39:24-04:00

No. We are fighting’different types of battles!