Have any of you Marines seen anyone drummed out of the Corps??

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 09:58:26 -0400

There was a time when a Marine found guilty of serious charges at his court martial would have to stand in front of his company and listen to his dishonorable discharge declaration be read by his 1st Sergeant who also would remove his stripes and hand them to him. Then he would be drummed out of the Corps as Marine Band Drummers would beat their drums.

I witnessed one of these moving ceremonies for a Marine who had gone AWOL. Then he received a Dishonorable Discharge and had his Corporal Stripes cut off his uniform by our Top...

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2015 10:04 AM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:04:13 -0400

Does not happen anymore Sgt Tom Cunnally

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2015 10:16 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:16:40 -0400

No - but that would definitely wake up some of the young SM's today who have lost or are losing their way in regards to UCMJ.

I have seen a few "open" Captain's mast on the aft end of a certain FFG and one in the hull of a certain LHA. Our FFG captain was brutal to those who violated UCMJ and rightfully so, as he sent a loud and clear message to those who were teetering on the edge of UCMJ violations.

In the Army - the commander asks the SM if they want an open or closed ART 15. I've only seen one SM say they want an open ART 15 and even then, the commander just left the door open to his office, as he read the ART 15 to the SM.

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Oct 22 at 2015 10:17 AM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:17:06 -0400

Drumming out is the historical act of being dishonorably dismissed from military service to the sound of a drum. It may refer to any act of expulsion or dismissal in disgrace

Should the U.S. military bring back the Drumming Out Ceremony for those who have disgraced their buddies, unit, service and country and have been court martialed and given a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge ?

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Oct 22 at 2015 10:36 AM

Capt Mark Strobl — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:36:01 -0400

Sgt Tom Cunnally - You're definitely "Old Corps," shipmate. I've only heard about this sort of thing. I though it to be a sea-story --usually repeated in concert with "pre-weekend safety briefing."

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2015 11:17 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:17:43 -0400

Sometimes the old ways are the best ways.
Nothing like seeing the absolute shame and disgrace in front of your brothers to make a guy think twice before turning to jackassery.

Response by Maj Matt Hylton made Oct 22 at 2015 11:39 AM

Maj Matt Hylton — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 11:39:54 -0400

As other have said, I don't believe this happens in the Active Duty military anymore, but I do have experience with a similar tradition while at VMI.

Virginia Military Institute is a state run military school that operates much like the National Service Academies. We are very similar to West Point. We also have a very strict Honor Code: "A cadet will not lie, cheat, steal nor tolerate those who do."

Whenever a cadet is found guilty of violating the honor code, they are "drummed out" of the Corps of Cadets. Now the cadet is already gone when this occurs, but the ceremony is essentially this:
- All cadets live in barracks. It is four floors with three sections and open courtyards in the center of each section. Old Barracks is the largest section with the largest court yard.
- During the night, the Honor Court (Senior and Junior class cadets) assemble along with some of the drummers from Band Company in the old courtyard.
- The entire Corps is woken up (normally between the hours of 0100-0300) by the drummers beginning to drum in the courtyard. (rolling snares for several seconds followed by a thunderous bass drum beat - repeated until all Corps members are awake)
- The entire Corps is required to wake up and get out of their rooms to assemble along the railings on each floor facing the Old Barrack's courtyard. (freshmen are woken up by the Honor Court members and their Cadre by having their doors kicked in)
- After the Corps is assembled, the drummers stop and the Honor Court marches to the center of the courtyard.
- The Honor Court president loudly proclaims that "Cadet X has been found guilty of violating the honor code! As such, his name will no longer be mentioned in barracks after today!"
- The Corps turns their back on the courtyard (that is symbolic of course) and returns to their rooms to go back to sleep.

I can assure you that the first time you witness this as a freshman cadet it'll send shivers down your spine and instills the disciple required to ensure you do not violate the VMI Honor Code.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 22 at 2015 1:05 PM

SN Greg Wright — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:05:46 -0400

Sgt Tom Cunnally Oh come on, Sarge. In today's PC world? No chance. Everyone in that CoC up to the Commandant would be relieved. Can't go around hurting anyone's feelings.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Oct 22 at 2015 1:52 PM

SSG Keith Cashion — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 13:52:47 -0400

I witnessed a ceremony of sorts a long time ago when a Soldier was found guilty at a Court Martial and was transported from the Court Room to the Confinement Facility and before he was let in the building, his dress uniform was stripped off of him in front of everyone by the Confinement Facility personnel. Rank, ribbons, name tag, unit patch(s), just ripped off and thrown to the ground. But like someone else said...today, that would not happen...you could really hurt someone's feelings that way (Bit of Sarcasm) by doing that. This where the disgraced need to be made an example of for others to see and take heed.

Half nickel of the day.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Oct 22 at 2015 3:07 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 15:07:38 -0400

I remember in the "older" days with NJP the Solders ART15 was posted in the common areas with the SSN taken out as a way to show others what happens when you screwed up. It was an event that no one really looked forward to, but everyone knew when one was posted. In the PC world of today, it wouldn't happen, and it would be posted all over the net taking away the "learning experience" and making it more of a "joke". Could something like this drumming out come back? I doubt it (sounds good), but Punishment is made in private, yet Praise is made in public. And if someone was to get a dishonorable out of it, I'm not even sure if the Soldier would even be part of the unit vs. looking at bars while inside of them. Maybe someone with more experience could correct me if I'm wrong?

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Oct 23 at 2015 12:33 AM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Fri, 23 Oct 2015 00:33:14 -0400

Not the USMC, and not Drummed out, but equally humiliating for the dirtbag.

1987 - Chile Air Force Academy.

A 2nd year Cadet stole a calculator from another Cadet, was found and quickly tried and found guilty.

The entire Academy held formation in the Receiving yard, which is by the Main Gate. Box formation around the disgraced cadet and the Director of the Academy.

The Director reads the charges as well as the verdict, following this the entire formation recites the Code of Honor. Then each Class Cadet Major (6) take turns ripping the patches, badges, name tag, epaulets, academy insignia and finally his wings off his uniform.

Then the lowest ranking cadet took charge of the formation, ordered an about face and marched us off, leaving the disgraced cadet alone in the yard, steps away from the gate.

His family waiting to pick him up, their faces could not hide the shame.

Response by Sgt Nick Marshall made Oct 23 at 2015 9:21 PM

Sgt Nick Marshall — Fri, 23 Oct 2015 21:21:21 -0400

I would love to see that, I can think of several for whom it would be appropriate.

Response by SSgt Donnie West made Oct 23 at 2015 10:17 PM

SSgt Donnie West — Fri, 23 Oct 2015 22:17:39 -0400

This sort of stuff dose not happen anymore; given the times we live in I see no point in showing off someone's dishonorable discharge. just remember people; just because it seems the right thing to do while in uniform does not make it right. that person already knows they done wrong. all good things come to an end. for those of you still in uniform; just remember your day is coming when you will have to hang up that uniform and possibly go get a job. some of you would not last long on the outside. " what goes around; comes around"

Response by GySgt Ronald Wasilewski made Nov 2 at 2015 12:23 AM

GySgt Ronald Wasilewski — Mon, 02 Nov 2015 00:23:08 -0500

I never saw one but worked for a SGTMAJ who was a PFC in WWII SAW ONE. Quite demeaning. I have escorted Marines to the gate and told to never touch foot on Government Property with BCD's in their hand. Marine Barracks, 32nd St. San Diego 1968.

Response by Cpl Shawn B. made Nov 4 at 2015 2:08 PM

Cpl Shawn B. — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:08:27 -0500

We had one at 3rd AABN at Camp Pendleton sorta like this back around somewhere around 2003-2006 time frame I can't remember exact details there was no drums though just the call out / reading in front of the battalion, stripping and escorted to the main gate by a working party.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2015 10:26 AM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:26:38 -0500

Nope, now it's few and far between for a Commanding Officer to even to do public NJPs. Personally I think closed door NJPs are a mistake as they don't serve as an example for the entire command.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Nov 18 at 2015 1:26 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 01:26:54 -0500

I've seen a few public NJPs but never a public dishonrable discharge. Since all administrative and punitive discharges have to be reviewed, it would be jumping the gun to publically "drum them out" By the time they are reviewed the service members are long gone on appelate leave. The exception would be those doing long sentences, and they are away from their commands.

Response by Maj Michael StClair made Nov 21 at 2015 3:12 PM

Maj Michael StClair — Sat, 21 Nov 2015 15:12:24 -0500

In the early 1960's (62/63) there was someone at MB Norfolk who was literally thrown out. Whatever this guy did, he received a BCD; they marched him in front of the entire barracks; his crime and sentence were read by the SgtMaj; they then stripped him of his EGA's; then the entire barracks did and about face, and the miscreant was marched off the parade field. HQMC quickly informed the rest of the Marine Corps not to do that again. Don't know if they beat drums during the ceremony - but it would have been just the icing on the cake.

Additionally when I was in the 1st Recon Bn, every Friday when we were in garrison there was a battalion formation. At that time the Command Officer (LtCol Wheeler Baker) would read the results of any recent Office Hours (NJP) proceedings, and if a courts martial had occurred, the results of that. Then we would (everyone) would get down and give the Colonel 25 push up's. I look upon those days as be some of the best I ever had. Hooya!

Response by 1stSgt Donald Smith made Nov 23 at 2015 4:05 AM

1stSgt Donald Smith — Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:05:11 -0500

I witnessed a drumming out of three Marines back in 1960 while stationed at the Marine Corp Supply Center, Albany Ga( as it was called at the time) Marines got BCD's . The Company was in formation. A brig chaser marched them up to the Co. The Co gave the Company the command about face. The Co then read off the charges. The Marine had their belonging with them. The chaser then told them to fall in on the road and marched them to the front gate with a drummer behind them. I was a young PFC and never forgot it.

Response by Capt Thomas M. Rutherford made Jan 8 at 2017 10:11 PM

Capt Thomas M. Rutherford — Sun, 08 Jan 2017 22:11:12 -0500

I witnessed this during early 1963, at Marine Corps Base, Camp Lejeune, NC when I was in Marine infantry. It was a sad occasion. I don't know what the Marine did. I can still hear the drums roll and the "Marine" walking off base dressed in civilian clothes. You never forget something like this.

Response by Cpl David Wright made Oct 6 at 2017 12:22 AM

Cpl David Wright — Fri, 06 Oct 2017 00:22:44 -0400

I witnessed a drumming out of a Marine at the MP Barracks, HQ & Svc Co, H&S Bn MCB. Camp Lejeune, N.C. The date was sometime in June, 1961. The man had, on numerous occasions robbed his fellow Marines in various ways, and had apparently just gotten out of the brig.

The MP Company was in formation, the Marine was read the findings by the C.O. stripped of his jacket and his cover and the C.O. gave the order to the company to "about face" and he was marched off the base (Camp Lejeune) to the front gate by an MP chaser, one of his own company. His gear in his sea bag was transported in an MP wagon. He himself was not allowed the honor of being transported in the wagon.

I wasn’t in the MP Company; instead in the Base Communications Section which was quartered in the same barracks. The barracks was configured as a U, and the drumming out was conducted in the inside part of the U, with the windows of our squad-bay facing the whole thing with the troops ending up facing our window. I’d only just arrived from Communication school posted after boot and ITR so I was a boot with only 9 months in the Corps.

I believe I can still remember the guys name, an uncommon one, but it’s not something I should do; it would cast an aspersion on others of the same name, its so unique.

Response by Cpl Thomas Gray made Oct 29 at 2017 12:55 AM

Cpl Thomas Gray — Sun, 29 Oct 2017 00:55:01 -0400

This Marine has attended a "Drumming Out" held by 7th Marines in 1962. The formation and ceremony proceed as described (ripping off all military insignia and buttons, removal of the man's cover and reversal of his blouse), with the exception of marching the man ~ 6 miles to the Las Polgas Gate [with a Prisoner Chaser and Snare Drummer (drumming cadence) in the detail] and off Camp Pendleton Base.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2017 12:40 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:40:31 -0400

Not quite the same, but in the Antarctic the CO of the coast guard icebreaker held a public Captains Mast in the hanger bay. Dress Blues, set up like a courtroom, bells, whistles, the whole thing. All hands at that. All i’d seen up to that point in Navy was closed door masts, and only the accused was in dress uniform.

Response by GySgt Frank Kirk made Dec 3 at 2017 7:11 PM

GySgt Frank Kirk — Sun, 03 Dec 2017 19:11:57 -0500

I was stationed at Bogue Field and saw a POS drummed out.

Response by MSgt Stuart Sibitzky made Sep 13 at 2018 4:05 PM

MSgt Stuart Sibitzky — Thu, 13 Sep 2018 16:05:38 -0400

I was Air Force, dad was Navy. In about 1953 or so, there was a Marine found guilty of “something” at the Norfolk Navy base (Court Martial) and “Drummed out of the Corps”. It was “featured” in a Life magazine article and I understand somebody caught hell for it. But the pictures were taken and published.
After the sentence was handed down, he was marched with his company to one of the never used chain-link gates in the base perimeter fence. Then, just like others have stated, his rank, badges, etc were striped off. He was marched to the beat of a drum the last 100’ or so to the gate. As he passed the troops, they were called to “About Face”. Reaching the gate, someone opened it, he was marched through, his sea-bag was thrown after him on the ground and the gate closed once again and locked. The troops were marched away back the way that they had come.
As a 12 year old it sure made an impression on me!

Response by Cpl John Maguire made Nov 28 at 2019 1:10 PM

Cpl John Maguire — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:10:40 -0500

I saw 2 drummed out in front of my Battalion L/3-8 in summer on 1965. It was just after I reported for duty. They were brought in front of mess hall and we were in Battalion formation. They read the discharge orders and stripped them of Eagle Globe and Anchor and then we did an about face a single drummer was drumming from the time orders were read till they were put in back of little MP truck and thrown outside of base. We were told Jville police arrested them for being vagrents. SEMPER FI

Response by Sgt Mp Brown made Dec 10 at 2019 6:40 PM

Sgt Mp Brown — Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:40:28 -0500

I witnessed several of these while aboard Camp Pendleton as a Division and Base MP.
A number of MPs and a small contingent of grunts assembled at the main gate, always in the early morning, and the subjects (always more than one, normally 4-8) were bussed to the gate a short time later. They were marched to the white (government property) line with their sea bags and faced inboard while the officer in charge read their discharges. The OIC then stripped each of them of every Marine or military related patch, emblem or device.
At that point, he threw their sea bags across the white line, called them to attention, and ordered them about face. Marched them across the white line and about face again. He then read and handed each an Order and Notice (if you return to any military installation you'll be arrested) and then turned his back to them and ordered us all about face.
We all marched away from them, leaving them standing on the civilian side of the line.... all with a look of, "what just happened?", on their faces.

Moving?, no. Sad, gut wrenching, avoidable and illustrative, yes.

After seeing one of those, you found yourself appreciating the Corps a lot more than you thought, and you sure as h didn't want to be one of them.

I'm forever proud of my time in the suck, ..... they never can be again.

Response by Cpl John Maguire made Dec 19 at 2019 1:10 PM

Cpl John Maguire — Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:10:26 -0500

I did see 2 drummed out in summer of 1965 in front of 3rd bn 8th Marines mess hall. After reading charges while a solo drummer slow drummed they were stripped of all insignia and Battalion did about face. They were put in one of those small MP Patty wagons and taken to front gate and thrown out. I heard Jville police arrested them for being vagrents. Semper Fi

Response by SSgt Robert LeBlanc made Sep 21 at 2020 11:54 PM

SSgt Robert LeBlanc — Mon, 21 Sep 2020 23:54:19 -0400

I can tell you who the first one was. An Army Officer (Lt.) for sodomy (Gay) durning the Revolutionary war.

Response by Cpl David Wright made Apr 3 at 2021 9:40 PM

Cpl David Wright — Sat, 03 Apr 2021 21:40:06 -0400

I saw a drumming out at Headquarters Co, H&S Bn. Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, June of 1961. I was in the MCB communications platoon, and we shared a barracks with the MP company at MCB. It was the old U-shaped brick barracks and almost directly across from the Central Area Service Club which was next to the WM barracks on its west.

The individual was a chronic thief and had repeatedly dishonored himself and his unit. He was called out to stand in front of the company formation by the C.O., stripped of his rank, his blouse and cover by then C.O. who gave the command “about face” to the company, effectively turning their backs on him, and the individual restrained by two mp’s, was loaded into one of the olive drab M.P. paddy-wagons and transported to the main gate.

I had only reported in to MCB a month earlier, and it was a weird thing to see happen. I can still recall recall his last name and the fact that he was a Native American.

As far as I know that was the last one executed at CLNC.

Response by Cpl Gerald Tucker made Apr 4 at 2021 2:41 AM

Cpl Gerald Tucker — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 02:41:07 -0400

Please bring back the “Drumming the Shitbag out!”

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Apr 4 at 2021 4:45 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 04:45:47 -0400

I am a firm believer of public displays of shame as a tool. My initial posting at FT Hood, a pair of PFC's got caught shoplifting at the PX, and had to stand out front of the PX in dress uniform, and explain the consequences of shoplifting to everyone entering and exiting the PX.

Today, this would never happen, because whenever someone does something wrong, it is never their fault. There is always some form of blame shifting and deflection. SM pisses hot, well, the NCO's are hard on me, SM Beats their spouse, well I get stressed at work, and my spouse triggered my response. Personal responsibility, and accountability, are things of the past, tools of the oppressors, and how someone feels is more important then all else, depending on where you place in the oppression hierarchy.

Response by LCpl Andre Scott made Jul 20 at 2021 8:17 PM

LCpl Andre Scott — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 20:17:07 -0400

I witnessed one at Marine Corps Base 29 Palms in 1970.