Have females been set up to fail the USMC Infantry Officer Course?

LCpl Mark Lefler — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 10:58:10 -0400

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-players-abc-news/a-marines-story-women-set-up-to-fail-usmc-s-most-grueling-test-223033894.html

A Marine's story: Women set up to fail USMC’s most grueling test

2nd Lt. Sage Santangelo on why she failed the Marine Corps Infantry Officer Course

Response by SFC Christopher Walker, MAOM, DSL made Apr 22 at 2014 11:39 AM

SFC Christopher Walker, MAOM, DSL — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 11:39:33 -0400

Interesting

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Apr 22 at 2014 12:43 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 12:43:50 -0400

I like her attitude that the training for women should be made harder... instead of the infantry course being made easier.

Response by Capt Whitney Davis made Feb 4 at 2015 3:45 PM

Capt Whitney Davis — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 15:45:55 -0500

Lt Sangtangelo published an OpEd in the Washington Post back in March, 2014. The piece you've referred to references her writing, but I suggest reading the OpEd too.

With that said, I agree with the secondary point she was making. She's absolutely right, if a female service member can pass the standards, physical and mental, that have been set for a given position in the military she should be allowed to serve in that position. To that end, she is also right that females should have a second opportunity to take the course, because males are given one.

On her primary point, though, I have to disagree. The Marine Corps, and I imagine the Army, will train all to a certain physical standard. If she needs to surpass that standard to achieve her goals it is not the Marine Corps' responsibility to get her there. It is hers. The progression for Marine Corps infantry officers is: The Basic School (TBS) followed by Infantry Officer's Course (IOC). All officers attend TBS. Only prospective infantry officers attend IOC. No one, male or female, is trained differently at TBS. The male officers that did not wash out of IOC may have worked harder on their own time, but they did not receive special, more difficult, physical training in preparation for IOC. The failure here, was hers, not the Marine Corps.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 4:08 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 16:08:54 -0500

After reading several articles on this topic, I would like to state that Marine training is setup to create Marines and Marine leaders. If you cannot complete the training perhaps you were not meant to be a Marine or a Marine leader. Find something you can do well, and then... do it well...

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Feb 4 at 2015 9:34 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 21:34:14 -0500

She admits she failed because she could not perform the training regimen (along with some of the men). Then she blames the Marine Corps for having lower standards for women's physical fitness but she knew the standards for the course she was taking. What a load of crap. If the Marine Corps upped he women's physical standards across the board for all women then they would hear nothing but complains about it.

Bottom line, she failed. She knew the standards she would need to meet and failed to properly prepare then blames the Marine Corps for her lack of preparation. I think it is safe to say she is proving she is not a leader just based solely on her behavior here.

5'3" female LT in the infantry, really. She might weigh a 120 lbs. The full load for a US Marine is about 97 lbs last time I checked. That load is 80% of her body weight. Are we going to have to lighten the load or have someone carry if for her too?

She is the 14th to try and fail. How many women are we going to go through to find one that can do it? How much time, money and effort is it worth in a military constrained by budget cuts?

Msg Howell is right, Chesty would not be amused.

Response by 1SG John Millan made Feb 15 at 2024 11:20 PM

1SG John Millan — Thu, 15 Feb 2024 23:20:15 -0500

No standards were lowered to ensure success.