Have Soldiers forgotten how to use SINCGARS?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 17:59:32 -0400

I have become more and more astonished, at every Annual Training, just how many cannot set up these critical communication devices. The last time I looked at the list of required AWT, this skill was included. Are we relying on our phones, or 2-way radios (Motorola) too much during training?

Response by SGT Jim Arnold made Aug 10 at 2017 6:03 PM

SGT Jim Arnold — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:03:54 -0400

is that anything like a PRC-77? I have no clue of what SINGCARS is so I'm asking

Response by SPC Anthony Schepis made Aug 10 at 2017 6:04 PM

SPC Anthony Schepis — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:04:05 -0400

NCOs failed to train them properly.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2017 6:05 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:05:27 -0400

It bothers me that a 74D SNCO feels the need to ask this. I hope the situation that brought about this question at least were NG/R and weren't 25 CMF. Regardless it is an important task to know as it's an Army-wide piece of equipment. Don't forget the OE-254, M-40 (I'm not sure if M-50's are norm yet), JSLIST, and your ERB/PPW/iPerms data.

SFC Squires, how much of your story can you share without getting into too much trouble?

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 10 at 2017 6:06 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:06:53 -0400

For a reserve unit, are SINGCARS platoon equipment or does it have to be drawn from supply each time? Can you get FREQ Hop load sets and an ANCD commonly at drill, or is that something only available at AT?

I guess the question is...Is the equipment available at weekend drill and not being used? Or not readily available?
Is the training on the training schedule and not being conducted, or not being scheduled?
Are opportunity to use the equipment as supporting task being taken? Running a small arms range at drill, setting up and using radios? Movement from armory to training site for weekend drill, are radios being used in vehicle movements?

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Aug 10 at 2017 6:32 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:32:43 -0400

I was a reservist and had to relearn it all the time. It's a perishable skill. And as SGM Erik Marquez stated, the ANCD wasn't always readily availble - or at least someone with the clearance - to help.

Also I think it depends on the unit. As CBRN soldiers, our mission generally relied on iCom's and other commercially availble comms since we operated in level A or B during training and may have been in a situation where we need to quickly communicate with civilian units. I'd say the only time we actually used the SINCGARS was during our field exercises and convoy's. When we were deployed, the SINCGARS were used all the time for convoy's and everyone relearned to use them. The fact that we didn't during our TPU time had no impact on our mission downrange.

I'd say "yes" soldiers forget how to properly use the SINCGARS, or do not have access to the equipment, but I don't think it's a forgotten task. Given the limited training time during a drill year, I think it's reasonable to ensure the S-6 keeps the knowledge fresh but it's probably not mission critical in most units for every soldier to be 100% proficient all the time.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Aug 10 at 2017 6:43 PM

SN Greg Wright — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:43:47 -0400

Oh I can top that, 1SG Private RallyPoint Member : Unbelievably, the Navy has allowed celestial navigation fall to the wayside. Take out our satellites, and you'll have 300 ships around the world that can't fucking navigate. Baffling, baffling, baffling.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2017 7:08 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 19:08:33 -0400

To answer your question: yes, we have an over-reliance on phones and Motorola type radios. Its not a Reserve/ NG issue either. As a prior 31C (25C) I am almost personally offended when Soldiers can't load and operate a SINCGARS. Its especially egregious in "tactical" Signal units where in the emphasis is usually placed on WIN-T over any type of CNR-even basic radio procedure is neglected. Its something we need to train on.

Having said that, I grew up operating SINGCARS, but it is ageing technology. In garrison, using Motorolas and phones is much more convenient- and probably perform better. Superior equipment is out there, but until it is fielded to all the units we need to continue to train with what will deploy with.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Aug 10 at 2017 7:14 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 19:14:46 -0400

I went through training shortly before I went to Germany for a Warfighter Exercise. If I hadn't just finished my training in this commo system I wouldn't have gotten the awards I did for keeping it all working throughout the exercise. We were constantly restoring lost commo with our allied armies while in the middle of fire missions. It was mentally intensive trying to keep this commo up.

Response by CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. made Aug 10 at 2017 7:31 PM

CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 19:31:39 -0400

You think SINCGARS is a training challenge. JUST WAIT till you start getting fielded the JTRS family of radios!!! BE PREPARED. Be prepared to take it AND fielding training SERIOUSLY. It is 10 times as hard to mange a JTRS network as a SINCGARS network. Please take it seriously.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2017 10:29 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 22:29:38 -0400

Since we are moving away from the SINCGARS, there isn't much use in learning how to use it. It is legacy equipment. The ASIP radio that is being used now is easy enough to learn.

Soldiers have different tasks and as a NG member, there is not always enough time to do everything.

If an ANCD is used, the loads are rarely correct. Unless your BN has everything set up and accounted for in their 30, 60, 90s.

Cell phones are used much more now because it is an immediate way to get ahold of a soldier. Through calls or texts. Accountability is a huge part of the NCOs job, and if they are unable to keep their soldiers actively engaged they may need to be counseled.

Ultimately, if you are concerned about your soldiers not knowing how to set up a piece of equipment, bring it up during a training meeting and see if a class can be put in the training schedule.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2017 1:38 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Aug 2017 01:38:59 -0400

Most definitely.......last EIB was atrocious

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2017 4:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:26:29 -0400

I know that in the 6 years I've been in the NG I haven't touched the SINCGARS. Each month there are two soldiers that are with communications that do PMCS on the equipment, but I may self haven't messed with them. That doesn't mean that I don't have a print out of how to load a frequency in a pocket on my uniform but it's not something I could do without issue.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2017 4:54 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:54:31 -0400

I agree with you to a certain extent. If units are do not have these pieces of equipment, it is hard for soldiers to train on these pieces of equipment even if it is listed on the AWT. I get it, you can read a 10-level TM but without hands-on training it is very hard to keep skills up-to-date on equipment that units do not have. There are many units that do not have SINCGARS (especially if you are talking about RT-1523E or older versions), however these same units might have better transceivers that the ones mentioned.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2017 3:18 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 03:18:07 -0400

Correct me if I am wrong, but the PRC-119 SINCGARS is virtually obsolete. I mean it is all about the PRC-117G now right?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2017 12:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:30:33 -0400

SFC Squires, I can't speak Army-wide but for Hawaii Reserve units, it is a perishable skill. Administratively speaking, trying to cram a month's worth of requirements into a weekend, in addition to mandatory training events (in-person training, etc.) cuts into much of the time we could be using to actually spend time on much needed sustainment training.

There are other ways to maintain skills, such as logging into Landwarnet and downloading/using the CBT's but it's no replacement for actual hands-on sustainment training.

As a SSG, I've hit roadblocks trying to explain to young(er) Commanders between the O2-O4 ranks about how important it is to understand that SINCGARS is not an all-purpose, works-in-all-conditions communications system. SINCGARS is just one platform out of many other COMMO systems available. Knowing the battlefield, understanding the parameters which can employ the SINCGARS effectively is just as important as being able to install, operate and maintain the actual equipment itself.

Even within the Signal Corp itself, I find it very awkward that even seasoned Signal Soldiers (Warrants included) do not know how to properly plan a tactical radio network and configure the SINCGARS systems as an internet controller (INC), making full use of the ICOM features.

Response by CPL Mitchell Anderson made Aug 14 at 2017 9:24 AM

CPL Mitchell Anderson — Mon, 14 Aug 2017 09:24:37 -0400

As a veteran and now goverment instructor it is not only in reserve units I can not tell how many time I have been to a unit and they do not have grasp on 10 level commo the common tale is that entry level training ia not reinforced at units like it should be

Response by SSG Darin McNeely made Aug 15 at 2017 4:46 AM

SSG Darin McNeely — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 04:46:27 -0400

thats just piss poor instruction and adherence to operating standards plain and simple. comms ncoic or signal officer should be on top of it.

Response by SGT TheChad Alfson made Aug 17 at 2017 4:44 PM

SGT TheChad Alfson — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:44:33 -0400

SFC Squires,
I agree. It is amazing that soldiers do not even know how to use a locking bracket to secure a SINCGARS to a VAA let alone try setting up comms without FH. My efforts in National Guard, after active duty, were spent training and retraining SC PT and rarely had a chance to offer training with FH. Seems as though most of my 31U/25U career was ignored until real missions were halted due to no communication

Response by SGT TheChad Alfson made Aug 17 at 2017 5:00 PM

SGT TheChad Alfson — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:00:02 -0400

ANCD/SKL training can only be done when COMMSEC is handed out but Single channel plaint text operations can easily be done every drill. Issue out the radios to each section to secure on their own. Every drill when PMCS is being done, make sure that includes radios installed (locking brackets correctly set and locked) and a rep from each section to get a quick or if time permits a thorough reminder of operations in which they can relay to their section. With commo having radios hand recruited to sections, common will not have to spend every drill working with the accountability paperwork. This will give time for commo to work with the operators on issues they have while not taking alot of other training time

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2017 7:44 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 19:44:43 -0400

It's an issue I have had too. I'm in the National Guard(transitioning to Active Duty) and the last unit I was with virtually had no time for MOS maintanence as we were bogged down with admin and inventory every drill weekend. The only time we actually got to use our equipment was the drill leadinh up to AT and AT itself.

Response by SP5 Nicolas Agosto made Sep 5 at 2017 12:08 AM

SP5 Nicolas Agosto — Tue, 05 Sep 2017 00:08:36 -0400

In my 8 years in the reserve I only load the SINGARS once after AIT and maybe use it 5 times on Plain Text. I was a 25U.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2017 1:22 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Sep 2017 13:22:56 -0400

In the National Guard, we use them every other drill weekend for live fire shooting and that is all. We can get them set up for Comm's and no one will use them. They always say its easier to text or call on the cell phone so they get exactly who they want to talk to. It aggravates me so much, but there is nothing I can do unless I install jammers haha. But all my batteries under me all know how to load a radio and use them. They just choose not to.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2018 4:42 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 04:42:14 -0500

Yes. Sadly. Working that issue as much as I can, providing links to every resource I can find and training as much as possible.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 17 at 2018 4:52 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 04:52:16 -0500

What's that? ;)

Response by PFC John Johnson made Oct 12 at 2021 2:11 PM

PFC John Johnson — Tue, 12 Oct 2021 14:11:35 -0400

This can be fixed through training. If you are a reservist/ NG get at least a squad to get hands on training with you at each drill. If active duty, talk to your chain of command about training times. Show them how to do it once, then walk each soldier through the process as they perform the actions. Finally as final exam have them do the action by themselves to show that they have retention of what was taught.