Have we gone too far over the ledge with being "politically correct"?

CSM Christopher Irwin — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:34:19 -0400

In my 23 years of service, I have never seen leaders MORE afraid of saying things that could be PERCEIVED as offensive to other Soldiers. Our culture is one of closing with and destroying the enemy; I contend that NO successful Army has ever been so on the basis of being polite to every one and carrying themselves in fear that they might say something that offends a particular group of people. Women, men, LGBT, NAMBLA, NCAAP, unions (sic), etc.

My biggest fear is that, as we move forward our Army becomes weaker. I contend that in order for us to be effective, we need to stop kissing the ass of small groups of people and focus on the masses. I am a realist and believe that until we STOP recognizing people for silly things over which they have no control, (i,e, being black, a female, a Jew, and Muslim, etc.) and make then raise to the level of the Army - cut hair, shave face, no head gear other than what's authorized, no dreadlocks, etc., we can't bring the individuals to the standard vice the other way around. In the USASMA's Academy I was made to stand up and clap for all the females, blacks, etc. These things are NOT due to the influence or successes of the individuals being praised.....Just the color of their skin or their sex. Neither of these things deserve laudatory praise in and of themselves. I contend that we should recognize people NOT because of things they can't control (race and sex), rather because of their accomplishments.

What are your thoughts?

Response by LTC Jason Strickland made Mar 30 at 2014 7:59 AM

LTC Jason Strickland — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 07:59:08 -0400

Well said! Everyone is paranoid of a negative response and should instead focus on the content of what they say/do/order/etc. It's too bad that we've succumbed to the interests of small groups that don't have always have a vested interest in our armed forces...

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 30 at 2014 2:44 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 14:44:55 -0400

Well said. It mirrors a few posts I've made. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone in not celebrating genetic irrelevances.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2014 3:19 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 15:19:18 -0400

I whole heartedly agree. It isn't just the Army but the Air Force, which was already watered down compared to the Army, has been playing a little too much in "Make everyone happy" land. I joined the service expecting the no BS approach. I expected the mission to come first. I was gravely disappointed by how my leadership is so afraid of someone's feelings being hurt that they don't correct actions that hurt the image of all service members or worse get people killed. Before we consider going to war with a real enemy like the rumored war against Russia we need to find how strength as a military. Because right now we are MUCH too sensitive.

Response by SFC James Baber made Mar 30 at 2014 5:03 PM

SFC James Baber — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:03:31 -0400

CSM,

I couldn't have said it any better myself, as I have mentioned in other posts that have received varying responses, I think some of it is generational and most of it is related to politics. I would go even further and say if we get the politicians and PC police out of the military's business, we could all go back to what our primary goal is, defending our country and fighting against our enemies to the state, instead of constantly worrying about if how I talk to this Soldier or discipline this Soldier or if I am being discriminatory because I don't think we should make special waivers for someone that has religious requirements to be a member of the military, we are and have been an all-volunteer force since the late 70s, so if you can't abide by what the regulations stated when you wanted to join then don't join, and if you can't handle being yelled at or cussed at then you need to get out and find an easier job that it doesn't occur in, because your enemy that you will face in Iraq, Afghanistan, or some other hell hole we have been in the last 30 years is going to do a lot worse and is not going to care if your feelings are hurt, you need to seek employment elsewhere.

While I am not going to say it is right or wrong either way, it is part of military culture and service arenas, and if it is not for you, we shouldn't be looking to make repetitive concessions for every special needs or entity that feels they are special and should be treated that way, there is no men vs. women, black vs. Hispanic vs. Asian vs. Pacific Islander vs. Caucasian, Jewish vs. Muslim vs. Christian vs. Buddhism, gay vs. straight, and so on, we are all Soldiers, no special separation is needed or should be, you volunteered to serve and die if necessary to protect your country, not what can be done to facilitate my needs or wants.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2014 5:48 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:48:22 -0400

CSM Irwin,

I agree with you that the culture of the Army has changed thoroughly, and has bred ultra-sensitive soldiers. I believe that is a result of the American Culture changing to a more liberal mindset, as well as political agendas. For conversation's sake (since everyone is leaning one way, I'll lean the other), I contend that the EO push is not the cause of the Army becoming weaker, rather, I believe it is the inconsistent and low standards to which soldiers are held. A limited example, IET soldiers are only required to achieve a 50% on each event on the APFT to graduate from basic. We literally allowed them to accept failing as an acceptable score. Now we have ultra-sensitive, underachieving, and unmotivated soldier being allowed to progress.

In some cases, I believe some leaders in the Army have allowed the structure and discipline of the Army to erode. Junior enlisted are graduating from basic not knowing how to act and treat NCOs and Officers. I can't count how many PV1s/PV2s have walked by me and given me the, "what's up nod," instead of a salute and the greeting of the day.

As seen with any build up of force, standards decline in order to satisfy the numbers. We see now, that standards are starting to become more stringent in light of the draw down. I do not agree with the adjustable standard. If we as an institution set a high standard and push our soldiers to exceed those standards, I am convinced our Army will become as strong, if not stronger than it ever was.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Mar 30 at 2014 5:50 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:50:50 -0400

Yes.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2014 7:35 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:35:48 -0400

Amen brother. 1,000 thumbs up.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Mar 30 at 2014 8:01 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:01:22 -0400

Never been a big fan of the phrase "Politically Correct". Most the time I hear it is when someone wants to Ignore Common Decency and is looking for an excuse, "We are being to Politically Correct" (I want to treat others poorly and I'm looking for an excuse). Sorry I'm not jumping on your Bandwagon.

Response by SGT Brian Schell made Mar 31 at 2014 1:32 PM

SGT Brian Schell — Mon, 31 Mar 2014 13:32:49 -0400

CSM,

I absolutely empathize. I am thoroughly sickened by our currently declining standards. As a Profession of Arms, we should learn this simple philosophy - When you stand up, like so few before you stood up, and you pledge to defend your country, you are no longer and individual worthy of either victimization or attack. Every Soldier in the Army is green in my opinion. That being said, I feel that this Army should be a one-standard-for-all profession. For instance, Combat arms requires you perform at this level, period. Not males perform at this level, achieving this output; Females perform at a slightly lower level, achieving a lesser output - but that's somehow okay because we should be sensitive to their build and physical limitations or differences (depending on how you view the subject). Combat arms needs to perform on the whole at one pace or level to ensure total operational effectiveness. Enemies will not lower their aggression to facilitate any female Soldiers assault, and I don't feel like we need to be focusing on their involvement rather than our overall standard. To summarize - Let them in! But retain the current standards. Who cares what gear they pack, as long as they can fight.

To comment on 'politicial correctness' in general, however, I feel that it is an attempt to illicit a response as a country. The vast majority of citizens in this great nation have been trending away from the hard working people we used to be. With so many people pointing fingers at whats wrong with the nation, economy, social issues, foreign policy etc. it has become easy for people to allow themselves to become victims in need of assistance. In my opinion, I feel like less people in this country these days operate with the intent of building themselves to achieve the 'American Dream', and more people move toward circumvention. They build new ways daily to live their lives with their hands out, to develop ways to grow wealth and success based on the accomplishments of others without actually developing themselves. We are becoming a self-help society. Create a problem to demand a solution. It's a growing government to take care of the consistently growing 'helpless poverty-stricken' masses. If you can wiggle your way through the system to pick up a check, then you are now somehow successful and encouraged to continue doing so.

My response to this behavior?

GET A JOB! TEACH OTHER PEOPLE IN YOUR SITUATION TO DO THE SAME! Your situation is not without difficulty, but similiarly, it is not without improvement! There is nothing so wrong with this country that the government needs to feed your family or give you a cell phone. There is nothing so debilitating about the color of your skin, your national origin, your sexual orientation, or any other way you scrounge up to seperate yourself from the populace, that you can't take care of yourself and your family. Offending people now is so easy because people want to be offended! They want to find ways to stand alone and build a crutch based on support from others. You have twelve kids and no husband? I'm terribly sorry for your piss-poor planning and judgement, but I don't think your situation has anything to do with the color of your skin giving you a disadvantage in life. You don't need a government stipend, you need your children removed from your unfit home! Personal responsibility is key. Without it we will crumble - ARE crumbling.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 8:02 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 20:02:49 -0400

Very well said!

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Aug 13 at 2014 12:02 AM

SGT Suraj Dave — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 00:02:36 -0400

That's why I had to get out and ETS. The Political Correctness was sickening. EO and SHARP now take precedence over actual training, like ranges and CLS. I even saw an actual patrol get cancelled before so the soldiers could go to a SHARP briefing.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 22 at 2015 2:02 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sun, 22 Mar 2015 02:02:51 -0400

Being politically correct (PC) seems to be the key to how many things are done and decided today. I agree with the CSM, are we doing things because it makes it easier to comply with the special groups and keep their voices down, or are we doing things for the over all best of the services? Evolving goes with time. The services will always be shaping and changing, but how this is done and why it is done makes the difference if it is for the good or bad of the services. I wish we could block out the PC voices and just focus on "how can we make things better with the down sizing involved."

Response by CW3 Douglas Branson made Apr 24 at 2016 8:48 AM

CW3 Douglas Branson — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 08:48:21 -0400

Our entire society has gone too far in being PC. We are destroying America with our spineless accommodations for everyone's feelings. If more people were worried about what needed to be said and done instead of ensuring that no delicate little flowers were trampled then we could again be the America that our forefathers shaped for us.