Have you ever been straight forward with your leadership regarding a bad idea or decision?

2016-08-16T02:04:58-04:00

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 2:10 AM

2016-08-16T02:10:14-04:00

ENS Private RallyPoint Member In my civilian job, you did not bring problems up to management without presenting a solution. If you are going to point out a bad decision, it is better to present an alternative idea that is better than the original.

Response by TSgt Melissa Post made Aug 16 at 2016 4:21 AM

2016-08-16T04:21:50-04:00

Yes, and as Sgt Theodore Hallock stated, it gains more ground with a solution too. I have received mixed results. Mostly based on who I am presenting it to. I have trouble sugaring something up. I tend to just be point blank about it. "This is what is wrong, this is why it is wrong, and this is my solution." However, some individuals let their feelings, pride, ego, or whatever the case may be get in the way of the words I am saying. They either get offended that an E4 is telling an E6 or higher that "I know you are new here, and I have been here for 2 years through many leaders but what you are wanting to do-we have done before and it failed." You would think I had just called them the crappiest NCO in the entire military. I have had other SNCOs who took what I said only listened to the words, gave me better guidance on how to present it to the next person (if it was something that I had to present), and backed me 100%.

If your post on here is to gain ideas on how to handle being told that your idea is wrong, then my advice would be this: as difficult as it can be at times, try not to take the news personally. It may not be a personal attack and I would venture to say that most of the time it won't be. If the person talking to you is a blunt person, or struggles with tact, just listen to the situation and the meaning of the words. On the flip side of this, be wary of those who constantly praise you for your work. Yeah we all do good things and occasionally we do a great thing, but no one is perfect and no one makes 100% good decisions. If you are getting only praise you should be asking yourself, what do these people want from me or what are they trying to slip past me.

Response by Capt Michael Greene made Aug 16 at 2016 6:04 AM

2016-08-16T06:04:06-04:00

During my 20, I often questioned my COC. Whether I was right or wrong, I often paid the consequences. Sometimes, I was rewarded. Now, 21 years AFTER my retirement, I've had plenty of time to reflect and learn from those experiences. Some thoughts:
In your particular job, you must be the expert, and be decisive. But on all other issues, remember that the admirals, captains, and large ship commanders are about a million times more experienced and more well informed on the socio/political and strategic issues. Plus, they did not get to their level of responsibility by allowing someone to put a chink in their reputation for leadership. So before you question/suggest or just get involved in an issue, ask yourself Is it MY responsibility to be involved? If you decide that the ship is sinking (figuratively) and you feel you MUST get involved, decide what you want your reputation to be as a result of your involvement: Are you going to be the hero who helped solve a mission-critical problem or are you going to end up as the guy who distracted the COC from their priorities, just to satisfy your need for validation?

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Aug 16 at 2016 9:13 AM

2016-08-16T09:13:24-04:00

One day after having been roaming around Baghdad with the troops while they installed blocking positions all night the Commander ambushed me for an opinion on an upcoming operation in the conference room with everyone and their mother present,(we usually pitched developmental stuff with just the BC,XO and S3 and the conversations were brutally honest and frank) my arse was dragging and instead of constructive points I blurted out " that's the dumbest shit I ever heard sir " you could hear crickets chirping in texas and the BC looked like I kicked him in the nuts, I immediately felt like crap because the BC was an awesome leader.
Instead of getting pissed, the old man turned and said that's why he's the CSM, now where do you think it's assed up. Never skipped a beat, gave me an opportunity to snap out of drag ass mode and positively contribute to the plan.
That's just one of many instances, and the only one I ever felt bad about. NCOs owe it to their counter parts to be frank, honest and respectful about visits from the good idea fairy and dumb or risky plans, policies or TTPs.
Just remember they don't have to like, implement or incorporate your input and once the decision is made it's your job to aggressively implement what ever they come up with as if you owned it.

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Aug 16 at 2016 10:58 AM

2016-08-16T10:58:04-04:00

I used to be far more outspoken that I am now (can you believe it's possible?).

I often wondered whether the chain of command had any appreciation for it. When I left he Army, I joined the LAARNG. At the end of my service, the CO took me for a walk. He advised me that I would regret leaving (NOT!). He also expressed his appreciation that I was honest with him, because most people tell commanders what they want to hear rather than the truth. Until that moment, in all the 3 years I knew him he had never shared that perspective with me. We probably would have gotten along better if he had. I didn't tell him many things, but when I went to him I was ALWAYS honest.

He also offered me a promotion if I would stay.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:10 AM

2016-08-16T11:10:31-04:00

Command Master Chief = Salty

Response by SN Greg Wright made Aug 16 at 2016 11:25 AM

2016-08-16T11:25:16-04:00

I posted my most egregious example in another of your threads, I think. I refused a helm order from a harbor pilot, once, that had the potential to end badly.

Response by PO1 Richard Cormier made Aug 16 at 2016 1:16 PM

2016-08-16T13:16:23-04:00

YUP. The reply was that an E8 said "I looked at your record, you were recommended because you know your stuff and will tell it like it is. The E7 then told me if "I ever question anyone E7 or up, I will get an Article 15".

Wrong thing to tell me with just weeks left on my contract. I gave up my career at 10 years. Got a great job at a big corporation for 17 more years.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made May 21 at 2017 10:06 PM

2017-05-21T22:06:46-04:00

I've always had trouble sugar coating things. It was an aweful triat for an E4, but has served me well since. Besides, I need to practice up for my future career as a curmudgeon.

Response by SFC David Hoernlen made Nov 15 at 2019 8:38 AM

2019-11-15T08:38:04-05:00

I recall during a battalion staff meeting (I was the company operations sgt) the battalion commander made a decision to put all of the MPs on duty on 12 hr shifts in full body armor during the dog days of summer. His purpose for this was to free up a squad for (training) since he mistakenly told a superior officer that he had MPs in training which was not the case. All of the leadership in the room seemed to be supportive of the decision. I on the other hand did not. At the time I was also the unit safety officer, master fitness trainer among other additional duties. All of the available MP were already tasked with missions and this was an untenable order. I couldn't help myself and without hesitation or more accurately after a quick assessment about how what I was about to do was gonna affect my Commander and my 1SG I opened my mouth. I stood up and suggested that everyone in the room which equaled a squad should dust of their gear and personally stand in the place of our soldiers to assess the effect this decision would have on our soldiers to save face for the Bn Cdr. The glares I received from the leadership in the room was priceless. Except for another Sgt Morales Club member who happened to be the S3 operations Sgt everyone else was not supportive of my recommendation. The short of is the order was rescinded until I retired. I was sad when I saw a lone MP standing a gate the following year in full body armor on a gate which hits cat 5 heat by 9am. Hmm new army?

Response by Cpl Bill Johnson made May 21 at 2020 1:44 PM

2020-05-21T13:44:32-04:00

When I was a Corporal, I was a squad leader in an infantry heavy machinegun platoon. The platoon leader was an obnoxious clown who thought he knew things. During an exercise, he told me to set up a squad ambush against a company sized force. I told bbn him, respectfully, that it was a bad idea, as we wouldn't be able to hit and run. He had the nerve to call me a coward. I told him that one of us knows what we are supposed to do, lieutenant, and that person is me. He was super excited pissed, but he never spoke to me again. I finished my enlistment (my 2nd) just in time to find out that he would not be retained as a Marine Corps officer. I guess I was right.

Response by Lt Col Leslie Bryant made Sep 5 at 2020 3:07 AM

2020-09-05T03:07:36-04:00

Yes, repeatedly as a Forensic Science Officer. Often high ranking folks did not know what forensics or advanced proven science techniques could do to resolving a crime. Yes, in an arson of a dorm on a base with 450 persons living in the dorm, we can identify who set the fire. Yes, with 300 potential witnesses to an international terrorist attack, we can identify who saw something quickly.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2020 12:10 PM

2020-10-30T12:10:47-04:00

It’s wonderful when a leader facilitates a command climate for honesty and candor, modeling they can handle feedback themselves.

One particular situation reflecting this was at a meeting with the BN CDR & CSM, CO CDR & 1SG, PA and I had to discuss the care plan for a Soldier had been sexually assaulted the day prior. The BC quickly laid out a care plan that was well meaning trying to give maximum care a deference to the Soldier. But with my role, having training, worked with victims, and knowing the Soldier, I knew the steps discussed would further isolate the individual and remove
much of the individual’s structure and purpose—exacerbating the situation. When the BC finished, I blurted out, “Sir, that’s a terrible idea!” He looked at me for a moment then asked, “Ok, Chaplain, what should we do?”
From there I walked the dog with what counseling and care for trauma victims normally looks like, what we knew the Soldier needed at that time, and what the Soldier would likely encounter and need in the coming months. We collaborated on a plan and moved out to support and care for the Soldier.

There are times when we have to stand up to leaders who need but don’t want our feedback. It’s great when leaders welcome constructive feedback. That BC was especially good at receiving input, modeling what it is to listen to your team, look at what’s provided, and come to a decision—and not having to be the leader with all the answers. This is one situation of many where he modeled this well. He made positive waves throughout the organization’s command climate and facilitated subordinates learning to do likewise.

Response by CPL Sharon Fahey made Dec 22 at 2020 10:43 AM

2020-12-22T10:43:31-05:00

Yes

Response by PO1 Jack Burton made Jan 25 at 2021 3:09 PM

2021-01-25T15:09:34-05:00

Before the 1992 presidential election, while I was in the Navy Reserves, the Navy decided it was going to take a survey of all its members to see who was registered to vote. This was not anonymous, but an individual by individual question. The CO announced it a morning roll call, and went sailor by sailor asking if they were registered. I refused to answer. He asked why. I said that was outside the Navy boundaries. The right to vote is a private right, not to be bandied about willy nilly on an involuntary basis. Anything associated with that right is also protected under that right. He said he could order me to answer the question. I responded fine, and I'll refuse to answer and put you on report for issuing an illegal order. That's going to look worse on an O-6 record that it will on an E-6 one. He backed down and dropped the issue. I am sure he put me down later on his own as being registered.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Feb 16 at 2021 12:42 PM

2021-02-16T12:42:33-05:00

As an officer, you bet. If any ideas were presented that violated the UCMJ or resulted in a danger to the soldiers affected they I would always bring the situation to light.
Probably didn't help my OER but it made me honest and straight forward. Had an LTC who was taking over the battalion tell me that out of all the offers of the staff that reported to him, I was the most professional and straight forward. No smoking or joking around like the others.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Feb 16 at 2021 1:12 PM

2021-02-16T13:12:26-05:00

Absolutely.