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Not trying to get any one in any trouble - just find it interesting that in the German military one can at times disobey an order - and in fact are required to do so if if an order denies human dignity to the armed forces member or the order’s target. Have you ever disobeyed an order or bent an ROE? Please feel free to use a "friend's" experience.
https://www.history.com/news/why-german-soldiers-dont-have-to-obey-orders
https://www.history.com/news/why-german-soldiers-dont-have-to-obey-orders
UCMJ
Orders
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 9
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One of the most insightful "professional development" classes I ever had started off with our squadron sergeant major telling the troop NCOs that the first question they should answer every morning is "Who will I disobey today?"
As the sergeant major explained, the reality was that the every-day combination of training and operational requirements meant we would never have enough time to meet every requirement coming from on high, so our most important decision would be prioritizing -- and deciding which order or regulation would be getting set aside, at least for that day.
As the sergeant major explained, the reality was that the every-day combination of training and operational requirements meant we would never have enough time to meet every requirement coming from on high, so our most important decision would be prioritizing -- and deciding which order or regulation would be getting set aside, at least for that day.
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If an order given is illegal you are not to follow it by law. Article 90 of the UCMJ outlines the crime of willful disobedience by a military member a superior commissioned officer. Article 91 covers willful disobedience of a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. Article 92 conveys what constitutes the crime of disobedience of any lawful order (the disobedience does not have to be "willful" under this article).
These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. Not only should an unlawful order not be obeyed, obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders.
Also I see you a lot haha MSG (Join to see)
These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. Not only should an unlawful order not be obeyed, obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders.
Also I see you a lot haha MSG (Join to see)
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SSG (Join to see)
PFC Jeffrey Herrington
What are you on about? You’re not making much sense at this point.
What are you on about? You’re not making much sense at this point.
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SSG (Join to see)
PFC Jeffrey Herrington - I think you’re missing the point. I replied with this because the OP said that “other countries are required to disobey an order that denies human dignity to the armed forces member or the orders target” I was just showing that it is illegal to follow an unlawful order. And at no point in my post did I ever say that unlawful orders were common or that they should be a concern of service members.
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SSG (Join to see)
PFC Jeffrey Herrington — This is going to be my last reply to this thread. No one here was barracks lawyering, this is rally point and it was a question of curiosity. Either way, briefly explaining what an article defines isn’t barracks lawyering. And as an MP I do need to know the UCMJ, how else would we enforce it.
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I have not followed through with some orders when they have been immoral, unethical, or illegal.
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SPC David S.
Commend the choices made due to your reasons - career or not we all sleep in the bed we make. As well thanks for responded to the question with an honest response. I think it demonstrates a lot of leadership to go against the grain at times especially if its in an attempt to rid group think from the decision making process.
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MSG (Join to see)
SPC David S. - Those orders I did not follow....granted I shall not speak of them here....were very much on the shady side and I felt (and confirmed when asked for clarification) unethical. When I challenged the orders, the powers that be did back down.
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SPC David S.
MSG (Join to see) - takes a lot of stones to be a good leader - more than just saying yes all the time. Kudos on seeking clarification - I think this would be much harder for some green 18 year old private giving an order by a E-7 or a LT.
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