Have you ever felt like you were faking it until you made it in a leadership role? How did transitioning (becoming a PL/SL/PSG/CO) affect it?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 10:44:26 -0400

Doing research on new leaders!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2019 11:08 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 11:08:02 -0400

Not really. I’ve been lucky enough to have leaders who allowed me the opportunity to train two levels up throughout my army career. Of course, there were intricacies of each position that I wasn’t fully prepared for, but they were relatively minor and easily learned thanks to peers and superiors who had the experience that I didn’t.

That’s not to say that I was the best I could be when assuming the roles. I learned a tremendous amount during the daily execution of my daily duties, but the transition was relatively simple.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 19 at 2019 11:08 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 11:08:26 -0400

I personally never felt that way. From very early on in my career I was fortunate enough to have leaders who actually sought to develop their subordinates, it was often under fire, but none-the-less development. Between NCOES and strong leaders I believe that I was ready for each role. That is not to say that there weren’t learning curves in each. Some specialty assignments cannot be accounted for until one arrives. To dummies, ensurebthat units actually have developmental programs that compliment both OES and NCOES while aligning with the mission of the organization. Thank you for your service.

Response by GySgt Thomas Vick made Apr 19 at 2019 11:30 AM

GySgt Thomas Vick — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 11:30:40 -0400

My biggest fear always was I good enough to lead the ones working for and with me. Decisions way heavy when you are in charge of others Lives.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2019 12:31 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 12:31:48 -0400

I never felt that way. I was fortunate to have great mentors/leadership that were willing to teach me the right way of doing things. In addition, as leaders, it is our responsibility to seek and apply the truth especially when lives are at stake.

Response by SFC Marc W. made Apr 19 at 2019 12:36 PM

SFC Marc W. — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 12:36:20 -0400

Unlike most of these other gentlemen, each new role has required me to fake it at least for a little while. 50% of what I know as a NCO, I taught myself. 30% of what I know came from the what 'not' to do from poor leaders. The remaining 20% came from actual mentorship. Previous leadership positions could have been much easier with a mentor instead of a 1sg who tells me to "google my job" or gives a round about answer when directly asked. This I speak about from the NCO side of the house, in terms of officers I had one great CO who showed everyone what to do by his actions, the rest were just waiting to become XOs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2019 12:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 12:53:43 -0400

I think that I have taken on a few roles that I had to fake it until I had more confidence and respect of my peers.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Apr 19 at 2019 1:09 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 13:09:18 -0400

I definitely felt that way when I became a platoon leader, and then later an XO. Having great NCOs around me made all the difference -- they taught me so much. I was a sponge. We worked great together and talked openly about how we could improve as a team.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Apr 19 at 2019 3:54 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 15:54:25 -0400

Every. Single. Day.

I am completely and totally uncomfortable leading. Full stop. As a SPC, I had to be ordered to attend the promotion board. I signed at least 5 dec statements for centralized promotions. I was (and still am) fully capable of providing good-to-great leadership.

But that is and was a large part of my problem. Our Soldiers don't deserve good-to-great leadership. They deserve OUTSTANDING leadership. I was above average, often well above average. But unless I was the best possible leader, then I wasn't as good as my Soldiers deserved.

So, yes, every single day, I felt like I was taking it. I was pretending to be the leader my Soldiers deserved. I continuously worked to be that leader, but never made it.

Response by SFC George Smith made Apr 19 at 2019 4:24 PM

SFC George Smith — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 16:24:37 -0400

Most Interesting.... Thanks for the Share

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2019 7:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 19:54:36 -0400

Yes, and that's one of those moments you either continue to fake the funk and act like you know, or do some inner searching and ask for a helping hand and admit you just dont know what you dont know. I had a very embarrassing situation occur to me as a SGT E5. I was on Staff Duty, and as the Post Colors retreated, I realized there is a very specific way to fold Old Glory, yet I knew I didn't know how to do it. It's one of those things, that unless you had a detail, such as funeral detail, it really isn't a skill done on a daily basis.

I swallowed my pride and explained to the young trooper who was my runner, "this is not how this is supposed to be done, but we will fold this flag in a most respectful manner, ensuring it doesn't touch the ground, and we will both pull up a video detailing the process". He didn't know any better, and I could have said nothing, but I didn't like the feeling of "faking the funk" just to save face and have the young trooper think that is how you pay respect to the flag

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2019 3:32 AM

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Apr 2019 03:32:57 -0400

I didn't feel like I was faking it when I was a PL. I had so much training and simulations prior to becoming a PL.

I'm an XO and I 100% feel like I'm winging it all the time. I'm faking the faking, yall. I never figured I'd be an XO--I assumed I'd end up staff. I'm sucking as an XO and faking it so hard.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2019 7:12 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Apr 2019 07:12:44 -0400

All the time!

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Apr 20 at 2019 1:12 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Sat, 20 Apr 2019 13:12:21 -0400

I never faked anything from a FNG in Vietnam to a Delta Force Team Leader. If I didn't know, I asked a mentor or someone above me in the chain of command. I took every correspondence course the army had for Infantry starting from the pre-commissioned course, Basic, Advance NCO, IOBC, IOAC, and Special Forces Operations after I had a break in service. I went to NCO Academy after Vietnam which at the time was for E-5 to E-7. When the SQT Books came out. I studied mine and the books of my subordinates. I was a Squad Leader at the time which my squad had the highest average in the army and received an ARCOM for it. Our team was the Best Squad in the 8th ID at Baumholder in 1977 and had the most EIBs out of the battalion. We went to Bad Tolz and won best platoon at the Platoon Confidence Course. I was Platoon Sergeant. I beleive in positive mental attitude is the base factor of leadership. I was taught this by a mentor, the late CSM Tom Berry who was not in my chain of command but a fishing partner. I asked a lot of questions and got a lot of answers. I was fortunate in having an outstanding Chain of Command during my career. I took what ever advise as important. I learned fotm others success as well as failures.. My personal motto was "you can't soldier off a reputation," You have to seek ways of improving yourself. You can't fake a a leader, you have to demonstrate. No soldier gets away with faking. You adapt and improvise. I saw a lot of NCOs get reclassified from support jobs after Vietnam. I believe 80% of them were doomed because they tried to fake their expertise. The ability to navigate was what set a leader apart. Everthing after that was common sense as long as you could run, shoot and communicate. At the time I was the best I could be; Now I am just a has been............

Response by COL David Turk made Apr 21 at 2019 8:49 AM

COL David Turk — Sun, 21 Apr 2019 08:49:24 -0400

I suppose it depends on the term “faking it”. I never felt I was faking it in any of my leadership positions (civilian or military). There were times when my lack of experience, and/or subject matter expertise led me to rely on general knowledge/experience/input from others to get through the situation (less sure of myself). A lot of times, a cool head, and decisive action can substitute for expertise and experience (obviously not all of the time or in certain situations).

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Apr 22 at 2019 8:14 AM

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Mon, 22 Apr 2019 08:14:06 -0400

I think that applied to just about every billet I ever held Major (ha!)

No one expects much from a new DIVO, even one on their second tour, but as an acting Dept Head, OIC, and later S-3 (while working on the "green" side), I always felt I was "playing a role" for bit until I found solid ground. I'm sure I drew a lot from watching what other folks did (good and bad), listening to SNCOs (again...good, and bad), and trying to use no small amount of common sense.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2019 8:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Apr 2019 20:31:04 -0400

I’m not sure if faking it is the correct term, but definitely winging it. The minute I made the SFC list my CSM had me take a platoon. While I felt like I was capable and could succeed, it was a little bit of a “faking it” for a little bit. Not sure that it affected me, or the platoon. Just stayed humble, accepted all the help and advice given and did something each day to be better than the day before.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2019 11:06 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Apr 2019 23:06:58 -0400

It’s a monkey see monkey do Army. I looked at the Leaders that I thought knew what they were doing and I emulated their methods. I bombarded them with questions just to see how they thought and applied their knowledge to solve problems. I hodgepodge everything I learned from multiple leaders and I just kinda became me. I am still growing and still keep trouble shooting the leaders that apear to be going in the right direction.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Apr 22 at 2019 11:33 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Mon, 22 Apr 2019 23:33:12 -0400

Never. Never ask a soldier to do something that you cannot do yourself.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Apr 23 at 2019 1:47 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Tue, 23 Apr 2019 01:47:33 -0400

For my last position, No problem, I was the best available. Then, I finally realized it was actually a Peter Principle promotion.

There are some positions that simply cannot be declined. One accepts, realizes and falls upon their sword; which was later presented at my retirement function!!

I also felt alone in the performance of my duties! Sure fix, I retired!

CSM Hayden

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2019 8:03 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Apr 2019 08:03:29 -0400

Every position both civilian and military I've felt that I've faked it till I made it. I've basically made it public knowledge within my unit. I'm fortunate enough to be surrounded by a good group of leadership and joe's who don't look down on me for it either. transitioning from Vehicle Crews back to the ground after 5 years as a squad leader I felt utterly clueless at the start. Even self doubted my capabilities as a leader. But I did what I always do. Study on my time off, ask as many questions as possible, make sure I don't fuck anything up and most importantly ensure my Joe's have what they need.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2019 11:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Apr 2019 23:39:31 -0400

Sir, i will admit that i have winged it alot. NCOES does nothing to prepare young men and women to become leaders. BLC is a check the block, ALC was a literal waste of time and energy and SLC taught me nothing about how to be a PSG or 1SG. I pinned july 1 on OCT 20 i was BDE OPS SGM for an ABCT rear detachment and read d 1SG for the HHC BDE with about 80 folks. I didnt even know how to be good PSG and here i was doing two jobs i didnt know. So yes i phoned a friend, 50/50, and just plain guessed when all else failed. But i made it. Someday i hope i will get some mentorship from a NCO that helps me become a quality leader because i believe i fail my troops daily. I always ask myself what did i do to make it better or what did i do for the army today. Ask what will i do or can i do for army today.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2019 8:37 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 20:37:39 -0400

Anyone who doesn't think they had to probably still doesn't grasp the weight of the billet they held.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2019 11:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 May 2019 11:59:50 -0400

If you are faking it until you become a leader, than the individual is far behind. In my opinion you learn your way to leadership and fit smoothly into the role.

Response by MSgt Andre Stringer made Jun 25 at 2019 11:49 PM

MSgt Andre Stringer — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 23:49:43 -0400

I was an LCpl infantry Fire Team Leader and then an LCpl grunt Squad leader. There was no way to fake it because the men would be aware of it. Your SNCOs and Officers would be aware of it and you would be relieved of that position. if you lacked Land Nav skills and got your squad lost in the swamps, can't conduct COD, lead combat patrols, call in supporting fires, prepare and carry out SMEAC Orders, set up defensive positions, etc. Your men and superiors knew and there was no way to fake it. It did not bother me to listen to and follow the advice of LCpls in my squad who were more experienced and had more time in the Marine Corps than I did. The men respected that. Any flaws I had in leadership my SNCOs corrected harshly. The cut me no slack, I did not expect them to and learned. They told me as a leader you have no friends. The PFCs & LCpls you used to party with is no longer your friends. They are now Marines you are expected to lead and some will resent you. You now have to set the example and no longer do the same stuff they do.

That was part of transitioning into a leadership role. It was a little difficult because I was not A NCO and some LCps thought they did not have to take orders from another LCpl. I found ways to... solve that problem. It took me 2.5 years to make Sgt. and had similar problems with Sgts that had more time in the service but less time in grade I did. In 1973 I was assigned the Plt. Commander of a Security Plt after the Lt was relieved. I instructed my Plt Sgt and Squad Leaders on proper leadership. That Plt was the worst in the Bn but I turned into one of the best. My CO, other Officers, and SNCOs could not understand how I accomplished this when others failed. They said my style of leadership was unusual and did not fit Marine Corps standards. I tried to explain my techniques and suggested the Marine Corps adopt them. In 1978 when I attended the SNCOA I was surprised to see some of them being taught there. A person should only be promoted to a leadership role if they have the ability to lead and not have to fake it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2020 11:31 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 May 2020 23:31:52 -0400

Idk about this one for others, but I just can’t fake anything. Soldiers can see straight through you!