Have you ever had to take a soldier/airman/sailor/marine to NJP? What was it for?

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 08:15:43 -0500

Many of you are high grade officers who have taken SMs to NJP or presided over them. What are your experiences with NJP?

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Dec 4 at 2017 8:29 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 08:29:27 -0500

Twice as a company commander. Once for a soldier that had disobeyed a direct order and was insubordinate to his PSG, the other for an AWOL while on active duty with the National Guard. The first one was a dirt bag that I hoped would ask for a court martial, I think his PSG would have kicked his ass if he hadn't committed the offenses in front of the whole platoon. Hell, I wanted to kick his ass by the time I was done dealing with him. The last was while in the Guard and had a soldier go AWOL during the AT period after we returned to home station. I have to admit that he had the best story I had heard as an excuse. Apparently he was living with his Mother and his Step Father and they had moved while he was at AT, hadn't told him they were moving and left his stuff in some boxes on the porch.
The 1ST SGT and I did have the courtesy to wait until he was out of the office before we fell on the floor laughing.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Dec 4 at 2017 9:02 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 09:02:39 -0500

That's actually an interesting question. Once while I'd been in, I was randomly tapped on a list where I was, to act to look into damage to a truck an airman had been driving on a cold, icy, snowy day. I hadn't expected that, however, I was given the task by the installation, I hadn't realized that such tasking existed till I'd been told to look into the !matter. Now, when I did, I found out that, in all good conscience, I really couldn't hold the airman responsible, in my own mind, for any sort of negligence, as he'd been in a parking lot where there'd been ice that hadn't been adequately removed, and, as a result, the rear wheels had lost traction, and the truck had slid into a guard rail, with some damage as a result, possibly a few hundred dollars worth, not horrible, though significant enough to warrant pulling someone on the tasking list for NJP assessment, which, in that case, actually happened to be mez which I'd been quite surprised by at the time, obviously. The airman had been facing possible Article 15, I believe, as well as restitution for damages, so, I'd also had to consider the possible hardship to him and his family, who'd been with him on installation at that time. I'd never had to do any court martial related tasks, that was as close as I'd ever gotten to such direct involvement, the list was to allow for an unbiased obkective assessment out of his supervisory chain, which of course made perfect sense. I'd heard of area defense counsels (ADCs), which were the equivalent to public defenders in a service, as opposed to JAGs, who represented a service. I was neither in that case, I was actually assigned to investigate, as I reflect in the matter, being an engineer, o often wonder if that might've had something to do with being assigned to do it, though thats merely a guess I'm retrospect. Of course. Separately, amusimgly, when my Dad had been in the Navy, I'd gotten his records many years later, and had been surprised that he'd actually once had NJP at a Captain:s mast hearing for something, I can't quite recall what at the moment, losing something, or falling asleep, something like that, relatively minor, it was the only instance of it in his file, however, I think I mughtve kidded him about it slightly at one point. He was amused, he'd also said that, when he'd been at Great Lakes for enlisted Navy boot camp, he'd been assigned to guard detail once, on a night when the wind had been whipping in off Lake Superior pretty wickedly, and one of his CPOs got on him at one point about keeping his hands in his pockets, or trying to stand in excessively due to the cold, I don't kmow if was amused at that time, though he had been, in retrospect, when we:d yakked about it yrs later. Once, also, when I'd been getting some mail for me at an enlisted barracks where I'd been, a younger airman had been out in a parking lot with a couple of more senior MCOs gabbing, while off duty. The thing was, the younger airman had his fatigue shirt open, and had an open can of beer in his hands, being some what boisterous. I just stood there staring at him, and the other two more senior NCOs, not saying anything, till they got the point, told him to close his shirt, and lose the beer can, as it was still duty hours, in an open parking lot, during the latter afternoon, and not at an approved function for that sort of thing. I'd realized he'd only been kidding around, though I'd also realized that wasn't the time and place, it was just that the other two more senior NCOs had been rather joining in, as part of the some what boisterous humor, that was why I'd had to intervene. It was interesting that I just stood there staring, till they all realized why, the more senior NCOs first, of course, then got the point across to the more junior airman. Once, too, I'd been spending a day with the airbase group commander, a Capt. I'd been under at the ti!e wanted me to get the exposure, he said to for God:s sake, dress properly, and conduct myself accordingly, which, obviously, I did. While I'd been with that Colonel for the day, which was quite interesting, at one point, we'd been going to a briefing with the installation Lt. Gen. For all the senior staff, and, as I'd been assigned to the Colonel to observe for the day, I'd gone with him, which was the only time I ever got to see the Lt. Gen. In person, though from a distance. I did salute him while driving another day, he'd passed !e in his command car, going I'm the opposite direction, he did notice and returned the salute, of course. Anyway, when the Colonel and I had gone in for the briefing, a younger airman had been outside the main headquarters building. With his uniform in some level of disarray. The Colonel called out to him, I recall now, "Young man," and obviously corrected him on the spot, I merely stood back a decent distance and watched how he did it, he didn't cite him, which I'd found interesting, I think the airman had been too startled to ever repeat it, obviously. Last, when I'd been a senior OT at USAF OTS, my family had visited me before I'd finished. We'd been walking around the Lacklamd AFB Medina Annex where the school was, and a more junior OT (officer trainee) happened by with a friend, just walking past. The problem was, he'd been wearing sunglasses despite a really strict rule there of no sunglasses for OTs, and I had to give him a verbal demerit. At one point, also, for me, I'd been recycled in my first class at USAF OTS at the nine week point, that was a short end of fiscal year class, and had to go through with a second class, for another six weeks, I'd been called into see a quite imposing Lt. Col., the group commander I'd been under, which was the only really serious thing that happened while I'd been in training. Interestingly, the Colonel who was the school Com!amdamt, basically a wing commander, often drove his staff car with his eagle plates around to train OTs to salute staff cars, he passed me one day while I'd been walking down the hill from the main class building, imdidmsalute of course, which he obviously returned, at least I'd gotten that right, lol, hope was of interest, many thanks.

Response by CSM Chuck Stafford made Dec 4 at 2017 9:02 AM

CSM Chuck Stafford — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 09:02:46 -0500

If it gets to the point where UCMJ is needed, don't hesitate or drag it out - get it done and move on. Keep an open mind and hear out the mitigating circumstances and be consistent in both recommendations and punishments.

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Dec 4 at 2017 10:30 AM

LT Brad McInnis — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 10:30:37 -0500

I have taken a few sailors to NJP. Never fun. Sometimes there is no choice, though. I had a policy as a Department Head that there were certain things (Gun decking logs, dereliction of duty) that I would not put up with and were automatic NJP. Made that standard known to all of my sailors.

My biggest advice.... after NJP, make sure to get the sailor "back in the saddle" soon after punishment. There are those sailors that are just not fit for service, but the others that get in to trouble you want to make sure that you explain to them that the punishment is the punishment, now get back to work. Otherwise, you get into a snowball scenario, where the sailor is down on themself and think that their career is over. Not the case.

Also, you have a say in the punishment. I always recommended punishment that would affect the sailor and not the family if they had it. My thinking was by punishing the family, you make it a bigger problem. So, I recommended extra duty, never docking pay if they had family.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Dec 4 at 2017 10:34 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 10:34:49 -0500

I have had to take several to NJP. A couple were for misuse of government vehicles...pretty cut and dry as they were using them for personal use. Again the NJP was most of the time up to me as to what happened. Prime example...you have two people at different times misusing a government vehicle. One is using it after hours to make deliveries for his wife's business and the other was using it to get his 4 kids to school and to buy groceries and errands because his wife lost her job and they fell on hard times and lost their car...only used it until they could get their car back. One intentionally misused the vehicle knowing it was wrong but continued to do it to further a business up until he got caught...the other used it to survive. Both got punishment but the second got a lesser punishment and help to get him back on his feet. I had another one for adultery, which I had handled it internally with the individual until the military spouse of the other filed charges which forced my hand. I had another one for lying...blatantly lying to his flight chief, First Sgt, and me.
The rule of thumb for me as a commander was always get the facts...period. Don't ever go on initial information because most of the time it is wrong or at least partially wrong with half truths. If I was going to offer NJP I always had enough to take it to courts martial. I never tried to bluff any of my folks...if it was offered you knew I had enough to send you to trial. You did what you did and now it is time for accountability. No one situation is a cookie cutter. You have to take all facts in before administering. In the example above with the cars, If you took a stripe or money from the individual you would have made the situation worse for the family and created a a whole other problem. Each situation is unique and has to be approached with that mindset. As CSM Chuck Stafford stated below, get it done and quickly. People in your unit need to know something was done but they don't have the right or need to know what was done...they just need to know as a leader you can and will take action decisively and quickly.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2017 10:38 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 10:38:11 -0500

I've had to be present for this twice. Both times it was with Soldiers that were drunk on duty. Not something that anyone enjoys.
I do my best to make recommending UCMJ action the absolute last resort.

Response by Maj John Bell made Dec 4 at 2017 11:27 AM

Maj John Bell — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:27:24 -0500

NJP was evidently more common when I was in the service because your question took me by surprise. Most Platoon sized units had 4 or 5 NJP's per year. The first NJP I witnessed, I was the officer conducting it. I presided over my first NJP two months after hitting the FMF as the acting Company Commander. The Battalion CO, XO, and Sergeant Major and the Company First Sergeant and Company Gunnery Sergeant all spooled me up the day before and the First Sergeant and Gunny positioned themselves where they could signal me if I jumped the tracks. As best I can remember, no one died, no one was physically injured, no one laughed, and no one cried. The First Sergeant and The Gunnery Sergeant were the last to leave the office and they both gave me a thumbs up on the way out.

Here is guidance I gave my NCO's about NJP whenever I took over a unit.

1) Have your ducks in a row. If you do not have your ducks in a row, you will not get a second bite at the same apple for the same offense. Make sure you understand ALL of the elements of the offense and have done everything humanly possible, in a reasonable time frame, to get to the truth. I want the ALL the evidence and I want it BULLET PROOF. The easiest way to piss me off is to leave out factual evidence that exonerates or to bring me false evidence. If you do either their will be a long, loud, one sided conversation after the NJP is over. You will not be happy when that conversation is over.

2) Do not bring a Marine to Office Hours (Marine Lingo for NJP) unless you are DONE with him and want him out of your unit, and out of the service. (Out of the service wasn't going to happen for one NJP, but it communicated where I wanted the NCO's mind to be,)

3) If you want to keep YOUR stripes, do not EVER bring a Marine to NJP and tell me he is a "good Marine." If he is a good Marine, why the hell is he standing in front of me facing potential punishment. If he is worth defending, punish him some other way. If someone else charged him and you didn't want him charged, you may defend that Marine, but only then. And do NOT surprise me that you are going to defend him.

4) I expect the entire chain of command between me and the Marine being charged to present a unified front at the Office Hours. If that is not possible, I better know BEFORE we get started and BEFORE the Marine is in the room.

5) Marines talk trash. I want three of his peers from separate teams, squads, or platoons that know the Marine, in the room to witness the proceedings. I don't need him walking around BS'ing about how tough he was, unless there are some peers around to throw the BS flag.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Dec 4 at 2017 11:38 AM

MSG David Johnson — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:38:40 -0500

As an E-5 I was the guard shift NCOIC when a Soldier came into the guardhouse with sunglasses on saying he was going out to his post early. If he hadn't had sunglasses on I wouldn't have thought anything about it, It was dark out.
When all was said and done, this Soldier was Court Martialed for being drunk on duty and several other offenses related to this incident and investigation.
He was convicted and was given a BCD.
What came out later was that the Sergeant of the guard, an E-7, had been up to the same barracks room drinking with this Soldier and a couple others, all were black.
I received a bit of backlash from some of the Soldiers in the company, but mostly from short timers.

Response by SSG Maurice P. made Dec 4 at 2017 11:40 AM

SSG Maurice P. — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 11:40:49 -0500

I had 6 over a 34 year period...I did 20 active 14 reserve (25july1975---28feb2009)

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Dec 4 at 2017 9:33 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Mon, 04 Dec 2017 21:33:40 -0500

Several Summary Courts Martial (steroids, DWI - marijuana, 2xDUIs), company grade + chapter (FTR and APFT failures- same guy), recommended field grade (insubordination/border line mutinous behavior during OIF). Recommended GCM (sold drugs to CID for my soldier attached to another unit.

Response by SSG Daniel Brewster made Aug 6 at 2018 11:02 PM

SSG Daniel Brewster — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 23:02:15 -0400

I was a young E5 at Fort Campbell in the early 80s and had one instance where I participated in a UCMJ action (can't recall the specific name of it - it was more serious than an Article 15, yet I can't recall the name of it). In any event, there was a guy in the unit that today we might kindly say was like Lennie from Of Mice and Men. But, you know, back then he was a classic screwball. Never on time, never followed orders, couldn't lace his boots without help, if he could get in trouble over something stupid, well, sure enough he would. All in all, definitely not suited for service - probably should have never passed through MEPS. In any event, he ends up going through this UCMJ action and ends up with a General Discharge and something like 30 days in the brig. I was one of the witnesses for the man and we all come in and say what we had to say. It was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he was history.

So we're all sitting there at BN afterwards and they come out and need to take the guy to the post brig at Fort Campbell. Whoever was in charge comes out and sees us sitting there and says, "Sgt Brewster, you need to transport Pvt Snuffy down to the post brig". Ok, off we go. Now the guy wasn't malicious, didn't have a mean bone in his body, but was that classic goofball. We're in a jeep driving down to the brig and he says to me, "Sgt Brewster, I haven't had lunch or dinner - can we stop at the post Burger King?"

Well, I thought about it for a few minutes and then said, what the hell, he's happy to be getting out of the Army, he's gonna do his thirty days and he'll be gone. I tell him ok, but if he tries to run, I'm gonna have to shoot him (with my trusty issued .45) and he thinks about it for a minute and then looks at me real seriously and says, "Sgt Brewster, I ain't gonna run. I just want to get something to eat." So we stop for dinner and have a burger and sit and talk for a bit.

I get down to the brig (or jail or whatever they call it in the Army) and the guy behind the counter is like, "hey, where you been - we've been waiting for you guys and were getting kind of worried" and now I'm thinking, "oh oh". So I tell the MP guy that we had to wait around to get a jeep form the motor pool and I'm thinking that I'm glad they didn't come looking for us.

lol.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 6 at 2021 10:03 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 10:03:30 -0400

I was MAA to Chief of Staff COMSPAWARSYSCOM, Yeah I've taken a Few In Front of the Admiral. The Two I Remember was One a CTASN Gun Decking PT Paperwork. Lost His Rank Rate, Sent to Sea to Chip Paint. The Other a DP1 that Made a Sexist Rude Comment of a LTJG's Going Away Card. Admiral Just Chewed On His Ass for Awhile. Had Him Shaking Like a Leaf.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2021 1:33 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 13:33:31 -0400

Yes. A GySgt on the ROAD program, for UA and false statements. I was a Company CO for several months. The T/O billet was for a Major. He had a history, and I called his home for some facts. His section got fed up with him. He lied to me so I held Office Hours on him. He'd been calling in and going diving, and should have known better. I took no pleasure in it.