Have you ever served in a unit with a toxic command climate?

LTC Bink Romanick — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 19:53:32 -0500

These are the symptoms of a toxic command climate.

http://taskandpurpose.com/8-symptoms-of-a-toxic-command-climate/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=tp-today

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Nov 3 at 2015 7:54 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 19:54:13 -0500

I have

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 8:01 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:01:07 -0500

I've been in a line unit that fell under a Battalion with a toxic commander. The best part of that deployment was when our Brigadier General & his Command Sergeant Major visited with the troops. The next stop he made was the Battalion Commander's office!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 8:04 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:04:33 -0500

Yes sir.
8 for 8, right now. At least it will end soon.
Good God is it awful, and it shows up in everything. Retention. Training. Attendance.
If anybody needs a case study, I can write you a whole lexicon.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 8:17 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:17:12 -0500

I deployed with a unit that must have taken those 8 signs as a "How To."

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 8:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:34:14 -0500

Theres a MP Battalion in Korea that has good signs of it.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Nov 3 at 2015 8:49 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:49:50 -0500

I survived the toxic unit with a toxic Commander & CSM, unfortunately, many good people decided to leave the Army well before they should have left.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Nov 3 at 2015 8:53 PM

LTC Bink Romanick — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:53:28 -0500

I was in the best tank Bn in the Division # 1 of 4 by all criteria. Gunnery, IG inspections, Command inspections, COMETS, FUSA unannounced training inspections. You get the the picture.

Our commander retired and the new one couldn't lead water thru a pipe. He surrounded himself with the weakest officers in the battalion and had the fast movers transferred.

He and a very weak CSM ran the battalion based on their own evaluation of their own capabilities which were limited.

In short the successes slowed and eventually stopped.

The irony, this commander was and is a bullshitter, he made Bde Commander and eventually BG all on his own self promotion.

Response by PV2 Scott Goodpasture made Nov 3 at 2015 9:18 PM

PV2 Scott Goodpasture — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:18:54 -0500

No but had a company commander that needed detoxing. Whiskey man. A damn good thing we had a strong First Sergeant. Kudos First Sergeant Mansfield.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Nov 3 at 2015 9:21 PM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:21:51 -0500

Ummm yes! It is sad to hear that this seems to be a bigger problem than my last unit at JBLM. Why do leaders of toxic leaders continue to put up with it? Also, why have Command Climate Surveys if leadership doesn't do ANYTHING about the issues (esp. if they are legit issues).

Response by SMSgt Tony Barnes made Nov 3 at 2015 10:35 PM

SMSgt Tony Barnes — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 22:35:10 -0500

Yes...and the IG was doing an investigation of him during his last week in command. I was the 1st Sgt and he was the worst commander out of nearly two dozen I served under as a shirt.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2015 11:56 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Nov 2015 23:56:32 -0500

Been there, done that. Worst two years of my life. I didn't even want to come to work in the morning

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Nov 4 at 2015 1:25 AM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 01:25:03 -0500

Thankfully I never had a bad commander.

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Nov 4 at 2015 4:35 AM

CH (CPT) Heather Davis — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 04:35:10 -0500

I joined the military back in 1984, and I was one of the first females in my division. I was punched in the face in front of formation. Every situation that I have been through has provided me insight on how to use my chain of command. I knew my regulations and I maintain military bearing at all times. I encourage, motivate, and build strong professional relationships with my subordinates, peers, and seniors. I have a reputation of no nonsense and I am am an advocate for all that I serve with.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Nov 4 at 2015 6:38 AM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 06:38:05 -0500

I had a Bde Cdr in Germany who showed signs of schizophrenia and was a "fire-breather". Funny thing, he was replaced by a COL who had that reputation and who was outstanding.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Nov 4 at 2015 6:54 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 06:54:29 -0500

I never served in a unit I would have considered toxic. We did not use that word then to describe it either. I am surprised that an institution such as the US Army who prides itself on leadership, mission execution etc has so much of if about. Some of the points in the article sound chicken shit to me. Really, please and thank you in written or oral communication. Please Lance Corporal, assault that position...Thank you for doing that so nicely your efforts are genuinely appreciated.

Jumping chain of command is a no, no and we all know it. Just because your ideas are not acted upon does not meant they are ignored or not heard. Maybe they are just bad ideas, ever consider that possibility? A lot of this sounds like disgruntlement in the ranks. Some don't like the structure of the military and consider it "stifling". They are budding geniuses and no one seems to recognize it and allow them to make all of the decisions and promote them to the top etc.

Sometimes, change is not necessary. Change is not always good. Change is change. Some good, some bad. There is some wisdom in the way things are done or it would not have been done in that manner for so long. Just ask the folks at Coca Cola about "New Coke". They can tell you all change is not good.

There are bad leaders, bad NCO's, SNCO's, Officers and Commanders. In any organization greater than two people that will almost always exist.

Response by Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin made Nov 4 at 2015 10:06 AM

Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 10:06:09 -0500

Yes. I have served under an officer who was a complete "yes man" to our General. Despite my efforts to inform the leadership of the law, AFI, and contractual requirements, my leadership (a Lt Col) attempted to circumvent these "obstacles". I offered reasonable alternate solutions, many of which were better ideas all together.

Our General, while highly intelligent, was too arrogant to be challenged and preferred yes men. His Colonels did not respect his decisions and were consistently beat down for offering great ideas which did not go along with the General's vision. Unfortunately, his vision was flawed and I had to bring the JAG and IG into the mix to get his attention.

The Lt Col I worked for was all about promising we could do it all and essentially writing checks he could not cash without breaking the law, and AFI. In my 17 years in the Air Force, it was the first time I had to request an organizational change from my Deputy Commander, who also understood both the General's and Lt Col's ineffective leadership and inability to trust their people and their experience.

I ended up escaping the organization, but it wasn't until both the General PCSed and the Lt Col retired. This was 2 years of utter hell which I had to use my position to protect my NCOs from having their careers tarnished. Unfortunately one of them, a 2 time Levitow award winner from ALS and NCO Academy, had his career ruined by this Lt Col, preventing him from getting promoted to SMSgt. This MSgt was by far one of the best IT Project Managers I have ever known in the Air Force. While he has done well after his retirement, it still tears me up to know we lost such a great NCO.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 10:43 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 10:43:05 -0500

Sadly, yes. I had a commander that was extremely toxic. Luckily, we had a 1SG that balanced it out rather well and was able to keep our spirits in a better position. Although, we ALL (to include the 1SG) breathed a big sigh of relief when the CO left.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2015 8:06 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:06:07 -0500

I'm serving in one now.

Response by SPC Todd Hanson made Nov 4 at 2015 8:10 PM

SPC Todd Hanson — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:10:13 -0500

Yes I have seen so many IG and other investigations nothing done.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Nov 4 at 2015 8:13 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:13:47 -0500

Sounds like the first company to which I was assigned as an officer. My first two company commanders were the worst officers I ever worked for, worked with, or supervised in my 23 years on active duty. Their leadership styles and leadership climates displayed most of the symptoms listed in that article. If nothing else, I learned what "completely wrong" looked like, right from the start. Luckily, most of the officers on our battalion staff were great sources of guidance and mentorship.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Nov 4 at 2015 8:22 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:22:58 -0500

yes, the unit I was in was very toxic, mid to high ranking SNCO's about to retire and a few mid grade Commissioned Officers with no checks or balances.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 7:56 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 07:56:46 -0500

I've been in two units with Toxic Leadership. Unfortunately I'm in one right now. I'm biting my tongue until retirement.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Jan 22 at 2016 3:25 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 15:25:54 -0500

Does a health and welfare inspection and finding pot then being told to not report it by the B.C. just days before an I.G. inspection count?

Response by SGM Gregory Hoppe made Jan 22 at 2016 3:32 PM

SGM Gregory Hoppe — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 15:32:17 -0500

I did, it was a basic training Battalion in which the commander was so evil that they called him Darth Vader. Believe it or not. In 33 1/2 years in the Army. He is the only one that I can really say ran toxic command . In that career. He is the only commander that ever caused me to request a transfer. I learned an awful lot about handling commands in my period of time with that commander. After Darth Vader. I really was alert for signs of toxic commands and did my best as a 1stSgt to see that things remained on the up and up within my company and in cooperation with the other first sergeants that surrounded me. after my retirement. I ran into only one commander (Supervisor) in civilian life that I considered highly toxic and I worked on her for six years. She was a former Air Force person and out of all the supervisors that she harassed and controlled into the toxic environment, I was the only one that she was afraid of. I worked for her for six years before I had enough and went on a cruise as my reward for those six years. I've heard from friends of mine that still works there. Apparently the command (Executive Staff and Officers)'s finally had enough of her and fired her.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Jan 29 at 2016 7:14 AM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 07:14:17 -0500

Yes, in an ADA Bde in Germany, whose CDR was unhinged. We suspect he was forced to retire and at his ceremony he cursed us all out. Few were spared his butt-chewings. If you had to miss PT he went ballistic, but he never ran with the troops (a fact no one dared to point out).

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Jan 29 at 2016 7:17 AM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 07:17:23 -0500

About going to the IG: Consider the negative ramifications of a successful complaint. Unless the individual is relieved, there will be pay-back.

Response by PO2 Michael Berry made May 20 at 2021 1:53 PM

PO2 Michael Berry — Thu, 20 May 2021 13:53:37 -0400

I was assigned to a brand new Coast Guard Cutter in 1984. The command was so bad and the morale of the crew was so bad that the Commandant ordered an investigation. The Captain that dis the investigation was the CO of the previous new Cutter, so he new the issues that came with a Plankowner crew. He found the CO, XO & Ops Officer negligent on many counts & recommended disciplinary action against them. Nothing happened. After 16 yrs in The Coast Guard I got out swearing that I would never get stuck in a job that I could not leave. I had all intentions of making the Coast Guard a 30+ yr career. It is sad that so many careers were ruined.