Have your experiences with cadets (who've come to shadow in your unit as part of CTLT) been disruptive or inconsequential?

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 00:03:44 -0500

Many Rally Point members have likely encountered visiting cadets from ROTC programs or Service Academies who are shadowing a 2LT for CTLT. In your experiences, what has this been like for the cadet and for the unit? In general, is it considered disruptive or inconsequential? I'm on my way to an Infantry unit at Fort Lewis this summer and want to get the most benefit possible out of the experience.

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made Feb 24 at 2017 12:34 AM

CPT Jacob Swartout — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 00:34:32 -0500

2LT Private RallyPoint Member I have had plenty of cadets assigned for a few days in my past few assignments. They had an opportunity to shadow being a PL and XO for a day or two and even with the CO for part of the day. Once we took our 4 cadets to the range to shoot the M4 which they had a great time shooting, of course. Other times we showed them the vehicles at the motor pools and explained a BII layout, command maintenance and services. Our NCOs had the opportunity to speak to them on expectations as incoming 2LTs and what they needed to learn, take heed and how to react to situations. It was overall a great chance to meet the force while they were still at USMA or other institutions. When you do visit, do ask questions to the Soldiers and gain what you can.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Feb 24 at 2017 8:41 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:41:43 -0500

2LT Private RallyPoint Member "Have your experiences with cadets been disruptive or inconsequential?"
Both, and everything in between.
Some of that depends on the BN and BDE leadership ....If the Cadets are kept as mushrooms, then thats all they get out of it.
I also had a BN CDR who said "If there here they are doing the job" two weeks...Week one was ramp up, learn what you can in follow mode, because week two YOU are in charge.
That BN, who btw is one of the best officers I ever had the pleasure of serving with, also told the actual PL's and CO's.. How well you train them is what I will evaluate you on. Same was told to the NCO's.
Also had football players from a well known service academy that came as a vacation ideal..they thought like they had it in school their position as football stars (really??, you had the longest loosing string EVER) would get them a pass in the BN.... Off every night to Austin to party, then late retuning or hungover and useless. We had to pick one up for the local PD, arrested for D&D. The other 5 were marginal at best....and yes, that BN and BDE CofC pulled no punches not only wrote up the evauls as they should of been, but made personal phone calls to the school..
So in closing...We had some GREAT CTLT cadets that took the opportunity (and were given it, little bit of luck on their part for that, out of their control), and some useless ones that were disruptive or inconsequential.

There is some luck in timing as well..... if a Cadet shows up as the last of the unit equipment is being packed in conenxs and rail cars for an NTC rotation...the Cadet is going to see little but PT and accountability formations. Generally, the CORPS and DIV planners schedule so that is not the plan....but things happen.
So go, learn, listen more then you speak, there are DUMB questions.... those would be the ones you ask, you have already been giving the answer to, but did not pay attention and retain. If you need clarification phrase it as such, not a straight question..It helps to show you WERE listening, you just want to confirm.
So on day 5 it's not "SGT, what time is PT in the morning?" instead ask "SGT, PT formation, summers and 0530 for leadership yes?"

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Feb 24 at 2017 9:35 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 09:35:26 -0500

Entertaining.

We had one kid, er...cadet, come to our unit for one of our 6 week field problems where we were evaluating new equipment for the Army. This guy had the General Patton Complex bad! I can only imagine what he was being taught, but I digress. He demanded of us Active Duty Infantry guys that we treat him like an officer, show him respect and that we had better salute him. Respect is a fair expectation, but while he used the word "respect", I think in his mind it translated to "reverence". This cat was over-the-top.

It didn't take too long before things came to a head. I happened to be lucky enough to have the ringside seat when our platoon daddy had a "Come to Jesus meeting" with this cadet, and SFC let him have it, but good! This cadet learned some things not taught in ROTC or wherever he came from. He may have been a future Ring Knocker, but I don't remember anymore, but that explain the attitude.

But speaking of his attitude, once decidedly changed, for the remainder of the time we were saddled with the guy, things went well for everyone.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2017 10:03 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 10:03:42 -0500

Interesting and different with each different Cadet. Once when I was in the Engineers, we had two different Pointers come and shadow in my platoon. The first Cadet couldn't get ENOUGH training and briefings on what we did. He once asked me to explain the M113, its capabilities and the proper way to PMCS one. The other Pointer......yea he wasn't as high speed.......more like high strung and flaunted that he was a Pointer. He even managed to rub our LT the wrong way.....and my LT was a Pointer as well.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Feb 24 at 2017 10:36 AM

CSM Thomas McGarry — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 10:36:38 -0500

Having done a couple of ROTC support rotations at Ft. Lewis over the years in support of ROTC I found for the most part that cadets were respectful and eager to learn, even prior services cadets-Of course there are always a couple jokers in every group!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2017 6:28 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Feb 2017 18:28:12 -0500

In the Army National Guard we had ROTC cadets drill with us on a fairly regular basis. I rarely had anything to do with them, as they were occupied above my paygrade. However, I did observe that cadets who were there to pass time got treated differently than those who were there to participate and learn. I've seen cadets start and run a remedial PT program for APFT failures. We were short officers, so I've seen cadets get placed as acting PL plenty of times. Obviously, there's quite of bit of limits as to what they can do in that position, but it's definitely an immersion experience for them.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Feb 25 at 2017 6:54 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Sat, 25 Feb 2017 18:54:55 -0500

One got so drunk outside of Camp Casey it took me 1 hour to get him to his room. The second cadet thought he knew everything after Advanced Camp. "This one time, when I was in Advanced Camp"... The third cadet was awesome, well spoken, listening and learning from the NCOs and officers, level headed.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Feb 25 at 2017 8:35 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sat, 25 Feb 2017 20:35:33 -0500

It varies as SGM Erik Marquez says. I will add that many of the CSS units I was in we looked at this as a great opportunity to show cadets what CSS units do. It may be their only exposure to that world before commissioning. As a consequence we took great effort to select the right junior officer who we team you up with. So if you are headed to an CSS unit please consider yourself welcome.