Headspace and timing errors in the job search

COL Vincent Stoneking — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:21:40 -0400

In reviewing job applications today, I decided that it might be worthwhile to point out self-inflicted damage I see on a sadly regular basis. I'll update as I notice things. Feel free to add your own.

- "Can we contact this employer? No."
My spidey-sense is going off like the 4th of July. You have issues at your current place of employ, are about to be fired, or are generally held in low regard.

What is that you say? You don't want to telegraph that you are looking? Pretty much all employers get that you don't want to spill the beans to your current employer. And we wouldn't call them until after we interviewed you in the first place. If THAT is your reason, knock it off.

Moreover, if you do well in the interview, we are going to require that you sign a release (or give verbal permission, in other organizations, I guess) to check references/background - and that is ALL references that we can find, not just the ones you listed. You'd better believe we are going to contact the one where the red flags went up!!

That is IF you get the interview in the first place. Unless your resume & cover are exceptionally strong - or the candidate pool sucks, you may have just talked yourself out of an interview. Just because there is smoke doesn't mean there is fire, but it's the smart/safe way to bet.

Response by 1SG Chris Brown made Jul 7 at 2014 1:35 PM

1SG Chris Brown — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:35:11 -0400

I understand that someone might not want their current employer to know they are looking for a job. However, how else is a potential employer to find out about your job performance? I know your mom and wife and friends are going to tell me what a great person and hard worker you are, so why would I need to talk to them much? I've had people listing their friends as references on applications to my organization and had to let them know I need professional references. Your current employer is about as close as I can get to finding out what kind of worker you are today. So totally agree with you that anyone who puts that it's not ok to contact their employer on their resume is probably trying to hide something.

Response by SGT Brian Paine made Jul 7 at 2014 1:47 PM

SGT Brian Paine — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:47:02 -0400

I run into this all the time. After a few prying questions I find that most do not want their employer contacted due to retaliation. In other words the current employer either threatens to cut their hours, fire them, and/or tells the company that is calling that sm is a terrible employee just so they can keep them there. Most companies feel that they have spent time and money on an employee training them to work for them, not someone else. I admit I am skeptical about a would be employee if they say I can not contact their current employer.

Response by COL Randall C. made Jul 7 at 2014 2:30 PM

COL Randall C. — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 14:30:23 -0400

How about those that don't list 'minor' things that have occurred that I'm going to find out about five minutes after I take a bit deeper look (that's assuming your resume caught my eye and I dug a bit deeper).

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Jul 7 at 2014 6:06 PM

MSG Wade Huffman — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 18:06:04 -0400

Excellent points, Sir. Employment is at one of the most competitive points in most of our lives and you are correct that many end up shutting themselves out of a job (or better job) due to some of the issues you listed.
In my geographic area, statistic show that on average employers received approximately 300-500 applications for every vacancy. I know if I were a hiring manager, I'd be looking for any easy way to 'cull the heard' quickly.

Response by SGT Brian Paine made Jul 7 at 2014 7:59 PM

SGT Brian Paine — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 19:59:25 -0400

Another thing I really do not like is when a potential employee inflates their job descriptions with other companies for me to just find out what they actually are skilled at and they lied on their application. I have seen way too many resumes from veterans that inflate their job skills beyond what they actually know.

Response by LCDR Doug Nordman made Jul 8 at 2014 1:00 PM

LCDR Doug Nordman — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:00:00 -0400

Maybe you guys have your noses too close to the process. How does that question help you find a better candidate? Perhaps they're just randomly answering "No" without considering the issues. Do you have so many great candidates that you want to ditch one just on that randomness alone?

I've never had a "real" job (let alone looked for one) but if you're not getting the info you want from the "May we contact your employer?" question, then it's time to ask a different question like "May we contact previous employers (other than your current one)?" or just include a statement saying "After you interview with us, we may want to confirm your employment with your current employer."

Why contact the current employer in the first place? As a landlord seeking new tenants I never contact the tenants' current landlord. That landlord might praise their tenants to the skies in order to get rid of them without a messy lease termination or even eviction. So it seems that the only useful info you'd get from a current employer would be to confirm job title and dates of employment.

Response by Cpl Jonathan Nicodemus made Jul 15 at 2014 11:03 PM

Cpl Jonathan Nicodemus — Tue, 15 Jul 2014 23:03:32 -0400

Sir, thanks for this!! I have been putting 'No' on all my applications, for that exact reason--I do not want my current employer to know I'm looking for a different job until I have something lined up.
That being said, I'll quit checking 'No' now.
Thanks again.

Response by SSgt Chris Taylor made Sep 16 at 2014 4:03 PM

SSgt Chris Taylor — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:03:23 -0400

Perhaps there is a different way to view this challenge? What if the way we are looking for talent is broken, altogether? What if the interview process doesn't really result in the best fit for the company? What if the systems we are using constrain the ability for talent to find work, and companies to find talent?

LTC Stoneking's example is an interesting one; if I were unhappy in a job and were looking, why would I want you to talk to my supervisor, who, in fact, actually values my work quite a bit so that I have to deal with him while I interview with you?

The talent-opportunity continuum is broken, and has been for many, many years. We value process over eliciting the real value an individual adds.

If someone lies on their resume, that is a red flag, but what if the current system simply doesn't see them because they didn't use the right keyword?

There is a far, far better way to get exceptional veteran talent into great organizations - 15-second reviews of resumes will not lead us there.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2014 1:58 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:58:47 -0400

Instead of putting 'No', put 'Contact me first'. This lets the employer know that you want to give your manager a heads-up.

Response by CDR Kenneth Kaiser made Sep 29 at 2014 2:56 PM

CDR Kenneth Kaiser — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 14:56:50 -0400

Many years ago I worked for a company. It was an Aerospace leader. It had so many exciting areas and product lines it should have been a great place to work. It was one of the worst. As an aerospace firm they reduced the number of paid holidays and you were given two weeks of at Christmas so they could shut down, re tool and other things. However this was the time for the Christmas goose. They would lay off folks at that point to avoid paying them the two weeks. They hired young engineers out of college and would pay their moving costs. In return the new engineers had to work for the company for 1 1/2 years. The work conditions were so bad that many would quit one day beyond that 1 1/2 year point so the result was a bathtub manning curve, (i.e. a lot of young folks with less than 1 12 years experience and a lot of senior folks hanging on for retirement. If you tried to look for work with another group within the company or God forbid another company and they found out you were told if you want another job have at it and you were fired so the company particularly on the internal openings would loose qualified workers just on spite.

The point is that as a company or employer, you strive to keep your folks if they are good. However if someone is trying to escape and make themselves better and the current company does not want to recognize them, then of course I would not want you contacting my current employer. That would be like broadcasting your exit strategy. Oh wait, we did that. How did that work out?