Hiding service from employer due to affirmative action?

SGT James Graham — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:19:59 -0400

Hey, y'all. Ive got a problem. I recently applied at an international company for an armed security position here in the states. They set up an interview for tomorrow, and said to bring all my DD214s. The issue is, I never disclosed any of my previous affiliation with the military. It wouldn't be a problem since I was only ARNG, that's easy to hide. But I have 3 deployments, and 4 DD214s on my record. This company is an affirmative action employer, and aside from my hatred for my "service", I don't want to end up getting hired just because of a law that requires it based off my part time employment with the state, and fed government. They're going to do a thorough background check, so they would find out anyway, but at that point its up to them whether to hire me or not, instead of some law requiring it. It seems though they've already found out. Even though I answered no on all the vet and military questions.
How do I politely admit to them I am "prior service" (even though I was just NG), while at the same time declining to make that a part of my resume, and not come off as shady? Should I email them back today telling them so? I've never had a problem before because the employers just did a very basic check if any. I really want this job, but I only want it if I'm hired for being me not because of an 8 year mistake I made after high school.
Do I confess to it, or just keep hiding it?
Thanks.

Response by PO1 Christopher Feugill made Jun 24 at 2019 2:36 PM

PO1 Christopher Feugill — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:36:13 -0400

You should never HIDE your service in the military.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 24 at 2019 2:39 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:39:28 -0400

Did something negative happen while serving? How is the company using affirmative action to hire folks?

Response by SFC Michael D. made Jun 24 at 2019 2:45 PM

SFC Michael D. — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:45:31 -0400

I'm not understanding why you want to hide it. Were you discharged with less than an honorable? Or is it just that you are trying to get the job on your own merit? I don't know what went on during your enlistment but it is part of your life and like it or not, it's out there for all to see if they look. I really hope you get the job and do understand what you are saying. When we do hiring, Texas says that we have to concider veterans preference. We do. If we see a dishonorable, you won't get hired. If it is not mentioned on the application, it still gets found out through the back ground check. Even if the person doesn't know, it is looked at. Much luck to you.

Response by SGT Javier Silva made Jun 24 at 2019 2:45 PM

SGT Javier Silva — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 14:45:42 -0400

SGT James Graham - You call serving your nation a "mistake," but you look to the very same community for help. Hm. If you didn't disclose it, that is/was completely up to you. The law doesn't require you disclose any of it. I would e-mail the company asking them to verify the need for you to bring the DD-214. A simple sentence should do. "Ma'am/Sir, I don't believe I marked myself as a Veteran. Do I need to bring a DD-214? Or is this just standard saying?" Or something to that effect. Remember that an employer does not have to hire you because of lying on an application. Being a Veteran is not protected under Affirmative Action. If the job is in the private sector they don't have to give you any preference, even after disclosing your "mistake". The federal, state, county, and municipal governments are required to give preference to Veterans, but only if that Veteran is also qualified for the position they are applying for. Also, certain levels of employment in government do not give preference at all. Hope this helped.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Jun 24 at 2019 3:08 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:08:38 -0400

Politely admit to them that you are prior service. If you wish to defer veteran's preference you can (in most states).
If I interviewed someone who did not disclose previous military experience I would be very skeptical.
Just curious, why downplay your service and the merits of serving to a group such as RP?

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Jun 24 at 2019 3:20 PM

MSG Gary Eckert — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:20:21 -0400

If your background check does not match your application or resume, most employers will either rescind the offer of employment or terminate you for cause. Good, bad, or ugly, your time in the ARNG is part of what makes you....you. Additionally, most employers have to consider other factors when making hiring decisions and one of those things they are often judged on in the market place, is whether they are Vet Friendly employers, so the chances of your 4 deployments affecting you employment to your dismay may be great. However, you indicated you really want to work for this company, why would you care if you get a leg up on someone who has not served.

Response by PO1 Christopher Feugill made Jun 24 at 2019 3:50 PM

PO1 Christopher Feugill — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:50:41 -0400

As a Veterans Employment Counselor, one of the first *suggestions* I make when assisting a fellow Veteran with their resume is that they lead off with their service. "US Navy Veteran with # years experience in 'xyz occupation/industry"

Response by SGT James Graham made Jun 24 at 2019 4:37 PM

SGT James Graham — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:37:31 -0400

Well I took some of you guys advice and confessed to it, but made it clear I did not want it being used in anyway in my favor. He seemed to understand, still doing the interview tho. I'll see how it goes. Thank you guys for the help!

Response by SFC Carl Olney made Jun 24 at 2019 4:56 PM

SFC Carl Olney — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:56:08 -0400

Well, you just touched on my 2 buzz words. See I have been told to my face that I could not apply for jobs because it was against Affirmative Action. Yes, guys no joke. And I was told by a black VA official to keep quiet or i would be blackballed. I spent over half my life serving the nation, and this was how i was treated. So what did I do you might ask I flipped the civilian world the bird. And went full blown retired I am done with idiots.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2019 7:56 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:56:04 -0400

A LOT of guys/gals didn't like what they did while in uniform. Needs of the Army, Corps, Navy, Air Force and all. And many of them do their four or eight and go do other things. You are a VET whether you accept it or not and I know there are a lot of people who still respect your willingness to serve, even if you didn't like the job. And in today's military, there is no such thing as "just" Guard or Reserves. We all have our part to play, and we all did our duty. Never asked anyone for anything more. Good luck with the new job.

Response by LCpl Darrell McGraw made Jun 25 at 2019 7:21 AM

LCpl Darrell McGraw — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:21:16 -0400

Yes!

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jun 25 at 2019 8:29 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:29:51 -0400

First, I don't think you really understand how veteran hiring preferences work in the civilian world. At best, it is if you are as qualified as their best candidates, you get hired. Most of the time on the civilian side, it doesn't even have that effect. What is more likely to bit you in the ass is blank spots in your resume during your deployments and most armed security jobs will at least require a national background check, where all of that stuff shows up.
Three deployments in eight years? That's one hell of an operational tempo for an active unit, let alone in the Guard. You apparently weren't happy in the service, I would see no reason not to at least list this stuff on your application.
Most employers simply look at military experience as a record that you know how to show up on time, work a schedule ,follow instructions and work as part of a team

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Jun 25 at 2019 9:21 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:21:32 -0400

Dude. If someone offers you a job and you want the job, take it. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I get that you want to be hired for you, but I really think you are overthinking it a bit. No employer is going to hire someone solely on a Veteran's preference. Its just one factor among many. You'll know if you're qualified or not if you make it and not get fired.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Jun 25 at 2019 11:08 AM

LTC Ken Connolly — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:08:08 -0400

I do not understand your reluctance to disclose your military experience. You should be proud of this experience. If they have a contract with DoD, they are required by contract to provide Veteran's preference. So, if you do not exercise your legal right, then a Veteran who also applied for the job maybe the one selected with all factors equal.

Response by SGT Chris Stephens made Jun 25 at 2019 12:08 PM

SGT Chris Stephens — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:08:33 -0400

At the end of the day, like it or not, you served. If a company wants to hire you based off of your experience, then let them. The point of the job is to provide for your family. Don't let your pride get in the way.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2019 12:48 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 12:48:40 -0400

Sgt, I read through your original post several times just so I could grasp what you are trying to say. Are you saying you want an armed security job that would directly piggy back off of your military service but you don't want the job based on your military service?

Also, calling your service to your country a mistake? I don't understand why you would want to hide that 8 years of your life anyway? This whole post confuses me.

Response by TSgt James Potter made Jun 25 at 2019 2:52 PM

TSgt James Potter — Tue, 25 Jun 2019 14:52:37 -0400

So, how did the interview go?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2019 1:50 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:50:53 -0400

What on earth is wrong with you?

Response by SrA Brett Stratton made Jul 7 at 2019 11:34 PM

SrA Brett Stratton — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 23:34:00 -0400

Honestly? If you have a hatred for serving, I'm not sure how comfortable I would feel as an employer of you hiding that fact. It's still experience, but you hiding that sounds shady as hell. Whether you liked or hated it is irrelevant in the end. While being a vet can get your foot in the door, I can assure you that even in affirmative action businesses, it's not a guaranteed thing that you'll be hired; it's just a foot in the door and nothing else. Personal experience talking.
Just come clean, admit you don't like talking about it, and talk about what you'll be able to contribute to the company. This is gonna be a fact of life, but as long as you make it clear you don't like talking about the past and prefer to focus on the present/future, that will satisfy most employers. If not, you don't wanna be working for those kinds of people anyway. Digging into your past like that is also pretty sketchy.

Response by LTC Philip Marlowe made Jul 8 at 2019 3:59 AM

LTC Philip Marlowe — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 03:59:25 -0400

Hey, guess what - there are two reasons they don't HAVE to hire you just because you're a veteran. Under the USDOL/OFCCP rules regarding VEVRAA, it only applies to Federal Contractors with CONUS and US Territorial contracts and 2, VEVRAA only establishes a bench mark of 6.9% VET hire (again in CONUS) as a GOAL - not a quota - therefore your military service is simply something they might want to know, but its not necessary. I know this because I work for the US Dept of Labor, Office of Federal Contracts Compliance Program, better known as OFCCP. However, as someone whose been in Security for 50 years - I suggest that if you present this kind of attitude to your potential future employer, and I was their hiring manager, I wouldn't hire you anyway simply based on the attitude you will probably demonstrate because you must 'confess to having served'. If you think the 8 years you served in the Service of and for your country was a mistake, I - as a Senior Security Manager and Leader - would not want you on my team - especially if my team was responsible for protecting the lives of our currently serving service members. I was a Deputy Country Manager - SECURITY in Iraq with 4000 Force Protection Officers/Static & Convoy Security and a Security Department Manager with 1000+ FPO's in Kuwait and the men and women who worked for me were predominantly veterans and a mixed bag of LEOs looking for a challenge - but NONE of them thought serving or protecting those who serve their country was a mistake and I would know - I am not a desk sitter. I visited EVERY post and spoke with EVERY FPO in Iraq and Kuwait. Part of my job as a leader. I suggest you find another line of work. Walmart might be hiring loss prevention guys.

Response by Col Jeffrey Swegel made Jul 18 at 2019 10:04 PM

Col Jeffrey Swegel — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 22:04:28 -0400

Something doesn’t smell right here.

Response by TSgt John Burres made Jul 20 at 2019 11:15 AM

TSgt John Burres — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 11:15:08 -0400

I think you should consider finding another job. Something that doesn't require the possibility of your having to aid service personnel. Besides, you have shown that you are willing to tell a lie about your prior service in the military..... what else are you willing to lie about? You don't "politely admit" to them that you originally lied instead of telling the truth the first time. You lied on an employment form, and doubt they'll take you now anyway.

Response by SGT Mark Daughenbaugh made Jul 22 at 2019 6:46 AM

SGT Mark Daughenbaugh — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 06:46:22 -0400

they will most certainly "find out" about your service during any background check (if they have not already). it almost sounds like you are trying to hide something about your service - in which case they may want to dig deeper to see if you had issues with authority etc. this would be something I would definitely (as an employer) want to be aware of especially in light of this being an "armed" position. Just a thought.

Response by SGT Jd Cannon made Jul 23 at 2019 2:09 AM

SGT Jd Cannon — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 02:09:41 -0400

As an Employer, I would automatically disqualify you from employment for falsifying your application. Might seem harsh but how can you be trusted bu not fully disclosing your work history. It sounds like there is something in your service record you are hiding. I’m in law enforcement so when people don’t want to disclose it’s for a reason. And to add to that, you stated it’s for security and your training is what qualifies you for the job; full stop. You probably should seek some professional counseling, and I’m not being crass or trying to insult you. The military should have left you with an “esprits de corp” attitude and if it hasn’t, your leadership failed you.

Response by SGT Andrew Pincsak made Jul 26 at 2019 7:51 AM

SGT Andrew Pincsak — Fri, 26 Jul 2019 07:51:45 -0400

Just NG died along side Army and SF.
Don’t lie.
The foundation of your truth will keep you standing and earning a living.
If they hire you and you slip and mention it to another employee Or the company finds out
They may have grounds to fire you after you moved and settled in. If you really want the job
Don’t lie or play games. If your discharge is Honorable be proud and stay Honorable.
Good Luck
Andrew

Response by SGT Daniel Durkovich made Jul 28 at 2019 6:40 PM

SGT Daniel Durkovich — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 18:40:08 -0400

There are companies that get money from the government for hiring veterans. It depends on your company

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2019 6:49 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 18:49:22 -0400

The fact that you refer to being "only National Guard" shows your skewed grasp of the strategic principles of national defense.
I wonder how your appointment went...?

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made Aug 5 at 2019 9:34 AM

SFC Michael Arabian — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 09:34:36 -0400

To the best of my knowledge they is no law requiring a company to hire you, if they was I know a lot of unemployed and homeless Veterans that wouldn’t be where they are now. Being in the military might give you an advantage over someone who didn’t serve. If you really want this job, bring them the information they want and if asked about your time in Service tell them in a professional manner that yes you serve but it wasn’t for you.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2019 8:46 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Aug 2019 20:46:01 -0400

As a current LEO, in a position to make hiring recommendations and decisions, I can tell you some of our best employees are veterans ( Active Duty, NG, and Reserves) they function well in a structured environment and are not satisfied with mediocrity. Extra points in my book for veterans. This comes from 34 years LE experience.

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Aug 25 at 2019 1:14 PM

1SG Clifford Barnes — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 13:14:27 -0400

Confess it don’t be ashamed

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Aug 26 at 2019 4:56 PM

SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 16:56:55 -0400

Why are you even in this forum if your military service was a mistake.. if its a bad episode in your life and you despise it that you want nothing to do with it or having it attached to your history, then why even try to get advise from us Vets here? Without your military background, what Civilian qualities did you have that will qualify you for that security job aside from being an air-soft ranger?

Response by SGM Michael Womer made Aug 31 at 2019 11:59 PM

SGM Michael Womer — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 23:59:07 -0400

Did you take advantage of any of your education or other earned benefits after leaving the service.

Response by SSG Paul Carrier made Sep 3 at 2019 4:08 PM

SSG Paul Carrier — Tue, 03 Sep 2019 16:08:02 -0400

At this point it would appear to the prospective employer that you have been lying to them.

Response by SSG Curtis Vaughn made Sep 12 at 2019 9:09 AM

SSG Curtis Vaughn — Thu, 12 Sep 2019 09:09:08 -0400

Think about it.....ARMED Security position! They must due a back ground check

Response by PO1 William Van Syckle made Sep 26 at 2019 2:13 PM

PO1 William Van Syckle — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 14:13:43 -0400

I have a question for you. What type of discharge did you receive.....

Response by Cpl David Ferguson made Sep 29 at 2019 6:55 PM

Cpl David Ferguson — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 18:55:35 -0400

You can always become a professional protester like one of the AntiFa jerks. I suspect you lean far left in thought based on your hated of your experience.

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Oct 6 at 2019 8:39 PM

CDR Tom Davy — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 20:39:48 -0400

First off, never say "just NG." Half the people I served with in Afghanistan were Guard and Reserve.
Second, Affirmative Action is for things you didn't earn. You earned your stripes and everything on your DD 214's.
Third, it's a security job,,military service IS legitimate work experience.
Fourth, never lie on a job or security clearance application.
Finally, When my first enlistment was up, I tossed my boonnies in the drink and yelled F**k the Navy. I then did another 30 years. In time you will cherish the good memories and friendships.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Oct 8 at 2019 8:23 AM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 08:23:47 -0400

If your DD214s had no derogatory information on then ie Dishonerable Discharge, there shouldn't be any problem. It's 8 years of *"related" work experience (yes, for Security, Law Enforcement, or "secure / sensitive" jobs ie finance, child care, etc). You DID earn it, & they care about it. Like they say in the casino:
"Let it ride."

Response by PO1 Bill Garner made Oct 9 at 2019 2:05 PM

PO1 Bill Garner — Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:05:09 -0400

Be honest. If they are doing a background check they will find you not being honest with them and you never will get hired. IMHO

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2019 11:27 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 11:27:55 -0400

This is a stupid question. Why would you hide your previous employment from a prospective employer? It's called background check, buddy.

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Oct 10 at 2019 11:52 AM

Sgt Charles Welling — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 11:52:06 -0400

You likely already sealed your fate, you lied on an employment form. I would not hire you and refused many on the same basis. Other than that, you get no respect from me for hating your service...… are you nuts or just another left wing nothing?

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Oct 10 at 2019 12:44 PM

SPC Robert Bobo — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 12:44:02 -0400

Very Strange, We always sought out veterans and members of National Guard and Reserve , I don't of any public or private organization that doesn't seek out military in this case I suspect the hiring manager is a jackass that's anti-military , he/she needs to be routed out and terminated , I did run into one anti- military mid level manager with one company a few years ago, he also hated ex police, I alerted his VP who was a retired E9, he transferred this clown to non-essential back office position with no employees

Response by COL Mike Walton made Oct 10 at 2019 2:29 PM

COL Mike Walton — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 14:29:09 -0400

There's a couple of issues working for and against you in this situation, Sarge.
You are applying for a "armed security position". What's your qualifications for applying for such a position? Is is based upon your "previous knowledge and experience" which in part, is your National Guard service? Or is it something else we don't know but you do?

Your Guard service -- and the deployments -- works borth ways for you. You're not required to provide them the DD-214s but if they are requesting them, you should give them up for their review. You can let them know that you can bring them in during the interview but you are NOT going to hand them copies.

Employers get "incentives" for hiring Vets, ranging from "credits" to outright "cash injects" to their firm for each Vet they hire, depending on firm, state and under which program or programs they are hiring you under. Federally, the VEOA Act (don't ask me what it stands for, I don't recall but a good internet search can find it for you) calls for employers to place Vets at the near front if not the front of the employment selection line. Doesn't happen all of the time but normally, if you ID yourself as a Vet and got a service medal for your service, you get hired. It's NOT "affirmative action" but rather "veterans preferences" which get you the job.

Good luck with this...it seems you want the job, so use all of the tools you have to grab that job. If you don't want the job, simply tell them that you're applying on your own personal skills and abilities and not just because you served in the Guard for eight years.

Response by MSG Edward Camp made Oct 10 at 2019 6:39 PM

MSG Edward Camp — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 18:39:42 -0400

First of all you answered no to the question. By doing so you lied on your employment application. Also in the employer's eyes you have shown a certain level of dishonesty that could impact your employment with that employer. Just remember in the future never falsify a employment application because it could come back to haunt you.

Response by SGT Mark Estes made Oct 10 at 2019 11:26 PM

SGT Mark Estes — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 23:26:36 -0400

Saying your just NG however 4 DD214s and hatred for your service is a joke bro, get off this site. And saying it’s affirmative action is BS, do you even know the law and what that is, 31 Bravo? What unit were u with? What years were you deployed?

Response by SGT Mark Estes made Oct 10 at 2019 11:28 PM

SGT Mark Estes — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 23:28:23 -0400

You’re so full of BS dude, get off this site and wasting good veterans time

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2019 11:29 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Oct 2019 23:29:24 -0400

This is a stupid assumption. I thought that everytime you apply for a job you should be proud of checking the box that says that you are or were in the military! Man up, Bro!

Response by SSG Brian Wilber made Oct 11 at 2019 9:53 AM

SSG Brian Wilber — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 09:53:10 -0400

I take great exception to your labeling of your service as "just NG." Nearly half of my twenty years of service was as a Guardsman. I have seen both sides. I would just as quickly volunteer to deploy with a NG unit as an RA unit.

During our time in Iraq, my unit set records that the 101st Airborne unit that relieved us was dumbfounded by. Our unit also had the privilege of bringing hurricane relief to millions of Floridians after Hurricane Frances. A time I will forever be proud of. Every time the Guard has been called to serve our nation or community in some capacity, it has answered that call.

As a former guardsman yourself, you should be ashamed of your disparaging attitude toward the good Soldiers of the Army National Guard. Please don't respond with the nonsense about it not being the people. The military, including the Guard, IS the people.

Response by CW3 Robert Steinen made Oct 11 at 2019 10:07 AM

CW3 Robert Steinen — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:07:55 -0400

If you answered "No" on all the vet/military questions you lied on the form. That in itself may be a disqualifying factor.

Response by PFC LaVada Strickland made Oct 11 at 2019 10:40 AM

PFC LaVada Strickland — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:40:57 -0400

Wow, this is just weird and yes it is shady not to disclose your professional work history, which includes military. Your disgust with your choice to join the military and disdain with affirmative action efforts comes off as irrational and perhaps security is not the job for you. Heaven help if you were tasked with securing someone or something that you had issue with.

Response by SPC Paul Weegar made Oct 11 at 2019 11:08 AM

SPC Paul Weegar — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:08:17 -0400

You probably have already been denied any further processing of your application. If they do a thorough back ground investigation, they will find your military service. And since you said you didn't have any, you lied on the application for employment. That will stop you from getting the job.

Response by MAJ David Kline made Oct 11 at 2019 2:30 PM

MAJ David Kline — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 14:30:31 -0400

You're asking us how to help you cover up a lie? Own it. Take responsibility for your actions, decisions and the consequences that come about, then maybe you'll get some integrity back.

Response by SGT Joy Henry Collette made Oct 11 at 2019 3:45 PM

SGT Joy Henry Collette — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:45:44 -0400

Are you serious? Serving your country is a mistake? You did something good for yourself right out of high school. Please, think about it. Do not be embarrassed or feel shame for military service. You should be proud. And, from my experience, they are not trying to fill an affirmative action quota. They are trying to fill positions with the best qualified applicants. Being former military makes you the best qualified, and you should be proud of that...the military made you a best qualified applicant. Hold your head up high.

Response by Sgt John Woolery made Oct 11 at 2019 5:36 PM

Sgt John Woolery — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 17:36:47 -0400

"Even though I answered no on all the vet and military questions." So why should they hire you for any position much less "Armed security" when you have already lied to them?

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Oct 11 at 2019 7:52 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 19:52:16 -0400

I found what you'd asked interesting, esp as to how you'd phrased it, certainly...truly, I don't know how to answer what you're asking, esp not knowing more than what you'd said about it all...that being said, I can only try to explain some stuff that might help place the whole thing in some level of perspective, if I might...I'd been three yrs Army ROTC, the latter two on scholarship, I hadn't finished, it really gnawed at me, both because our Dad had conditioned my next-younger brother and myself to go in quite literally from infancy, and, as that next-younger had gone USMMA Kings Point, which further made the whole thing gnaw at me...that being said, I went USAF OTS after my bach...the thing was, I'd done it totally the wrong way, going in line instead of on the clinical side, which, obv, meant I got nothing I'd joined to do, of course...that turned the whole thing into a total absolute disaster, ultimately, which is why I'm total perm disabled now, basically...now, having said all that, I beat myself up about it constantly, I try everything I can try to be able to contribute despite all the strewn wreckage and debris...I'd gotten my allied health clinical doctorate as well as a whole slew of grad school, I'd wanted to go back in active duty USPHS, needless to say, that didn't happen, one of my attendings I'd externed with had been a USPHS O-6...I'd wanted to go state defense force in NY, the NY Guard (NYG), obv, I couldn't do that, as NYS insurance rules forbade it...I've wanted to go Civil Air Patrol (CAP) and/or USCG AUX, I don't even know if I can submit for those due to all the total chaos I'd had, honest...I've looked at volunteering to help with STEM tutoring for mil youth groups like CAP, Navy Sea Cadets through Navy League, as well as Young Marines, I've also tried to get involved with Boy Scout merit-badge STEM classes, as well...now, the reason I tell you all that is this: You can obv be told all the stuff that's supposed to go right when you go on, regardless of svc, branch, MOS, AFSC, Navy field or rate, Guard, Reserve, AGR, Guard Tech, Reserve Tech, what have you...all I can tell you is, I've had my head virtually slammed figuratively into concrete pavement ever since going Army ROTC, then USAF OTS, for 44 yrs now...I saw some really amazing things, met some really amazing humans, did some really important work, even if not what I'd wanted and/or intended...do I kick myself for the whole thing and all that happened? Yeah, constantly...do I wail and bemoan the whole thing also? Yeah, constantly...I'm trying to volunteer to assist with ongoing clinical research at a VA hospital near us, I've had to beg, plead, grovel, prostrate myself, abase myself in sackcloth and ashes, honest, and it's still taking an Act of God, an Act of Congress, a papal dispensation, and a thunderbolt from Zeus, I kid thee not, despite all my quals, licensures that are shut off now, training, background, exposure, zeal, and effort...some days, ya just simply gotta accept that ya gotta try constantly turning your lemons into lemonade, honest...sometimes, though I know this is likely to sound cynical, I realize, I quite honestly think that the reason one joins, apart from all the good that's supposed to happen, if one does exactly as one's told, that what really happens is that all that happens in reality is that one is eventually disillusioned...I completely realize, in saying that, that the vast majority of those on here would disagree with me, which is why, as I'd said, I knew I'd sound cynical for saying it, honest...nevertheless, it's a conclusion I've reached about all I went through, that's all I'm trying to say, and is purely my own conclusion about all of my stuff...I can't tell if you'd think anything similar, honest, though what you'd said more than slightly kinda reminded me of all I'd emoted, ever since I'd had time to reflect on my whole debacle, that's also all I'm trying to say, OK? For all those reasons, I can both intellectually, as well as emotionally, at least basically understand your thoughts in what you'd said...that also being said, as you'd mentioned, they're obviously gonna know everything you did when you were in, all that happened, all of it...I'd accepted that everything that ever happened to me is known all the way back to when I was in utero, honest...so, candidly, what I genuinely think is, regardless of how you might view all that happened to you emotionally from when you'd been in, whenever I've had to beg, plead, and grovel for any kind of chance now, I just give up, and just tell everybody everything, my whole horror show and tale of woe, all the time...if only for the simple reason that, whoever I tell is obv gonna know and/or find out anyway, plus, it often helps break the ice, plus, at least occasionally, helps earn me the "sympathy vote", if you will, for whatever possible good that might do...does it always help? No, of course not...does it occasionally help? Yeah, sometimes, albeit certainly not all the time, of course...those are my thoughts about all you'd said, such as they are...if you'd ever care to chat, just lemme know, no rush, whenever you'd want, OK? Trust me, been there, done that (BTDT), as my next-younger brother often reiterates, it's a USMMA Kings Point favorite adage he's esp fond of...I hope all that was at least of some use, in any event, if gabbing about the whole thing might ever be of any help, just lemme know as I'd said...trust me, I really did have my own horror show doing the whole thing, despite all my genuinely best efforts, as well as good intentions...in any large, complex, highly-bureaucratized organization like a svc, any svc, any component, things just have a way of spinning out of control totally unpredictably, purely out of a combination of bad luck, bad planning, errant, chaotic chance, you can't control it, it just kinda eventually controls you, honest...if I'd been prior enlisted, as I've said on here many times, and as I'd known many at USAF OTS who had been, I might've adjusted to the role more rapidly, with more than half a chance of having gotten it all right the first time, instead of the total chaos that eventually ensued, and winding up totally sidetracked where I hadn't wanted and/or expected to be, I assure you, I've given more than a good deal of thought to all that, as well, honest, OK? Just lemme know if you'd wanna ya, OK? Just try to remember something, for whatever it might be worth, willya? The sun still shines, the world still revolves, the Earth and the other planets aren't spinning off their axes, continents aren't toppling into the sea, the San Andreas fault isn't slipping, and the stars aren't falling out of the firmament, honest...my wife and I have bills paid, food in stomachs, gas in cars, roof over heads. fixing my whole horror show would take time, as it clearly has...I gather you apparently had your own share of aggravation as well, from your description, at least...honestly, to me, ya just can't change all that stuff, it's in the Natl Archives till the end of time, and on every database on planet Earth...so, if it were me, as I'd said, I'd just tell 'em all what actually happened, and just let 'em judge you for the truth, since, as you'd said, they're all gonna know, anyhow, honest, OK? I hope, once again, that was all of at least some use, if nothing else, if you'd wanna yak more, just lemme know, as I'd said, whenever you'd want, honest, OK?

Response by MSgt Frank Askins made Oct 12 at 2019 9:56 AM

MSgt Frank Askins — Sat, 12 Oct 2019 09:56:13 -0400

"How do I politely admit to them I am "prior service" "! You DON'T! What you do is admit to them that you are a LIAR. You provided false information on your application. As a prior hiring manager, that would be my first clue that you are not trustworthy and I would pass on you for any position. If this job requires a background check, the purpose of that check is to determine if you are trustworthy. You have already proven that you are not. As an added note..... if it took you 8 years to discover that you had made a "mistake", you apparently aren't too bright either. Disgusting you are!

Response by SGT Thomas Seward made Oct 13 at 2019 12:15 AM

SGT Thomas Seward — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 00:15:36 -0400

You want to lie about your service, but be trusted with a weapon? Do you think that this is some kind of game?
If you’re not proud of your service and what YOU did, maybe you should reflect upon the dishonorable things that YOU did that make you feel that way.

Response by SSG J F Texas made Oct 13 at 2019 2:06 AM

SSG J F Texas — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 02:06:59 -0400

I'm confused. 1. You applied for this position, Do you want it or not? 2. You're on a military/veteran site but you hate your service?

How about you don't take the 214s. If they still offer you the job tell them your hatred of the service and prefer to decline if you are being offer the job because you're a veteran.

Response by SFC Brian Gillum made Oct 13 at 2019 10:47 AM

SFC Brian Gillum — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 10:47:09 -0400

You didn’t put relevant information on an application for a potential employer whom you were well aware would be doing a thorough background check, based upon a very, very flawed interpretation of what ‘Veteran’s Preference’ means.

Since you lied on your application, expect that you will be denied further consideration at some point in the hiring process.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2019 12:44 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 12:44:32 -0400

Affirmative action doesn’t normally apply to military status so they wouldn’t be required to hire you due to affirmative active solely based on whether or not you served. Since you are applying for a security job your background check would reveal military service. The DD 214’s are requested to confirm the discharge you received from the military. As a HR person I would definitely be interested in seeing the document if you’ve already lied once by not disclosing your veteran status.
If you truly want this job, and was discharged honorable from your duties I would provide the DD214s. Or continue to lie and say you can’t find them.
Either way, the cat is out of the bag and they know that you’ve served.

Response by SFC Ernesto Rowe made Oct 13 at 2019 3:11 PM

SFC Ernesto Rowe — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 15:11:25 -0400

Why are you even part of this group? The last time I checked, we weren’t drafting anyone.

Response by SGT Philip Klein made Oct 13 at 2019 7:18 PM

SGT Philip Klein — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 19:18:51 -0400

I wouldn't hire you, you are clearly a liar

Response by SSG Gerald King made Oct 13 at 2019 8:44 PM

SSG Gerald King — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 20:44:51 -0400

This is pretty much standard operating procedures for a security company. They want to know as much about you as they can to prevent making any mistakes in hiring someone who may cause harm or damage to them or their clients. I spent over 20 years working in the field of security and have never heard of anyone trying to hide their military service. If you try to conceal your service and they learn of it, they have every reason to deny your application for employment. Also, I think there is more to this than you are telling. I wonder if maybe there was some problem with your military service and you do not want them to learn about it.

Response by SMSgt Kent Brown made Oct 13 at 2019 10:11 PM

SMSgt Kent Brown — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:11:12 -0400

I don't think you should worry about working at that company or any other. You lied an a job application and that should make you unemployable. You are either honest or you are not. Who would want to hire a person who falsified a job application no matter the reason. It doesn't matter if you are proud or ashamed of your service it is still a part of your background and regretfully, for some of us you will ALWAYS be a veteran.

Response by MSG Johnathan Mathes made Oct 13 at 2019 10:32 PM

MSG Johnathan Mathes — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:32:59 -0400

Better question is how bad do you want the job? Are you qualified to do the job..? Why are you trying so hard to explain away your service ?

Response by LTC Gene Moser made Oct 13 at 2019 10:49 PM

LTC Gene Moser — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:49:02 -0400

I fail to understand why a person applying for an armed security position within the US would not list service in the NG. I also wonder about the DD-214. When I left the NG I did not receive a DD-214. When I left AD after attending the FAOAC for nine months, I did not receive a DD-214. I did receive a "substitute for a DD 224.' You sound much too young to think that the NG does nothing on drill weekends but drink beer and BS. I don't think your prospective employer would think that either.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2019 10:59 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 22:59:37 -0400

I'll skip past the office comment about 'hatred for your service,' because I don't know the circumstances for your hatred (poor unit experience, poor leadership, etc.). However, I will state that you lied on your application by answering 'no' to the military and veteran questions. As this is a security job, a job that requires trust, your refusal to tell the truth, regardless of the reason, makes you untrustworthy. When completing applications, especially for security jobs, it is essential to answer questions honestly. When/if you get an interview for the job, you should also answer honestly about your service in the National Guard and about the number of deployments. However, when pressed for more information on your experience, instead of stating your hatred for your time in uniform, just state that you served and are glad that you are out. Remember, you volunteered for the military, just as you are volunteering for this job (every job). Not all jobs are wonderful experiences and we leave them for various reasons. When pressed for details, just state that you determined that the military was not a lifestyle for you and leave it at that. Because bitching and moaning about the military or any employer makes you a bad candidate to just about every employer. Not every employee is worthy of being hired and those with poor attitudes are best left on the sidelines.

Hopefully, you will be able to look back on every job, even your job in the military as a life experience that taught you about what you wanted in life, what your strengths and weaknesses are and what you aspire to be. Not every job is exceptional and we tend not to be working the job we had at 18 for the rest of our lives. Drop the attitude and more forward, do great things, be happy and do well for others.

Allons.

Response by SMSgt Alan Saunders made Oct 13 at 2019 11:22 PM

SMSgt Alan Saunders — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:22:20 -0400

You served - own it. As you indicated, they will find out when they deep-dive your background.

Response by SGT Sean Moore made Oct 13 at 2019 11:42 PM

SGT Sean Moore — Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:42:27 -0400

FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO INDIA NOVEMBER GOLF BRAVO INDIA TANGO CHARLIE HOTEL!

Response by SSG Sapper Greg made Oct 14 at 2019 3:41 AM

SSG Sapper Greg — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 03:41:22 -0400

There’s more to the story... Thats all I gotta say. Maybe the mistake was them letting you in rather than you joining yourself... Js

Response by Sgt Steve Williams made Oct 14 at 2019 7:03 AM

Sgt Steve Williams — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 07:03:01 -0400

I've read this twice and can't figure out why you wouldn't bring your DD-214. Obviously they asked for it because they know you have it. Maybe they are testing to see if you will continue to lie or maybe clear up what was a mistake on their part.

And how is serving a mistake? You signed up, discovered it wasn't for you and did your time. You seem to have a strange belief that someone would hire you simply because you are a veteran. It doesn't work that way. Are you hiding something you didn't put in your original question?

Response by PO2 Mike Lloyd made Oct 15 at 2019 6:14 AM

PO2 Mike Lloyd — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 06:14:02 -0400

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought affirmative action was hiring minorities due to quota requirements not veterans. Also, why do you hate the fact that you served your country? Did someone hold a gun to your head and force you to join? I'd be willing to bet you use your veteran's discount every chance you get. Smh

Response by PO1 Frank Downs made Oct 15 at 2019 6:39 AM

PO1 Frank Downs — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 06:39:14 -0400

Most security firms are heavy ex military, I’m sure they probably won’t like your view that service was a mistake, you sir did 8 years sounds like your a slow learner then or you were the problem.
If the question of military service was on the application and you marked none then you already started off with a lie, you could have marked correctly and attached a letter explaining you wish no preferences on service.

Response by SFC Gerald Gatlin made Oct 15 at 2019 10:36 AM

SFC Gerald Gatlin — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 10:36:59 -0400

How to avoid coming off as shady when I'm lying..hummmm. Nope I got nothing. Just try being honest. Nobody said you had to be proud of your service time,but to attempt to hide it means I'm passing you over for employment.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Oct 15 at 2019 3:49 PM

PO2 John Driskill — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 15:49:33 -0400

Good God Almighty!! You served your country and you are ashamed of it? Grow a pair and take your DD 214's in with you.

Response by SSG Sharon Fields made Oct 15 at 2019 9:09 PM

SSG Sharon Fields — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 21:09:56 -0400

I would email them and tell them the truth. Would not mention you felt it was a mistake. I would just say this was my military service but I would like hired on my qualifications. Many companies like the qualifications the military gives you though. And what do you mean “just NG”. Sounds like you did more service than many RA!

Response by GySgt Jim Hart made Oct 17 at 2019 8:50 AM

GySgt Jim Hart — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 08:50:57 -0400

You say you lied on your application, you have a problem. Your opinion about your service doesn’t mean you should lie about past history, when the background is made it will be disclosed and then forget the job you wanted.

Response by MAJ Michelle Goodnight made Oct 17 at 2019 10:04 AM

MAJ Michelle Goodnight — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 10:04:12 -0400

Unless the questions were “Do you want to claim veteran status,” you lied on your application. Most companies will look at that lie and second guess hiring you. This applies to any lie- experience, prior work, degrees, etc, not just veteran status.

Response by MSgt James Norton made Oct 17 at 2019 11:46 AM

MSgt James Norton — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 11:46:48 -0400

Get over it. 30, 40 yrs ago most employers asked to see your 214. This was most likely just a standard request by the company (rather or not they know). Its part of the first level screening during an interview, similar to asking for college transcripts Vs you claiming a degree on your resume or going to Kinko's and printing a "Degree" on some quality paper. All they are going to do is look at your discharge and verify category of service, maybe weapons qualifications and training.

Response by MSgt James Norton made Oct 17 at 2019 12:05 PM

MSgt James Norton — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 12:05:33 -0400

Get over it. Thirty or forty years ago most employers asked to see your DD-214. This is most likely a standard request (whether they know or not) as the first level of screening. All they're going to do is look at your characterization of service (discharge), weapons qualifications and training. The request is comparable to asking for college transcripts. No one cares about your perception of military service or if you hated your last job. If you want the job, I suggest you take your 214 and keep your mouth shut. You're applying for a armed security position. Say there was 50 applicants and I'm down to 20 to interview, 4 have military experience...who do you think the company is going to look at hard? Maybe someone with maturity, experience, training, integrity, ability to show up on time and adhere to standards. These are qualities you gained in the Military regardless if you hated it.....you served (and only 1% of the population can say that now)!

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Oct 17 at 2019 9:35 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 21:35:31 -0400

Your posting makes me want to ask a bunch of questions. Why are you ashamed to have served your country in the U.S. Army? Did you have a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable Discharge from the U.S. Army? What is this so-called "International Company" with whom you are applying for work? Why would your honorable military service in the U.S. Army be a bad thing to disclose to this "international company"? Aside from the Peace Corps and some international aid/relief organizations, there are very rarely any negative results from prior honorable military service.
Are the people in this "company" anti-American or upset with the U.S. Army? If so, why? And finally, if you are ashamed to have been associated with the U.S. Army, as your posting indicates, then why are you asking Army and other DoD people for advice on how to hide your military service from this "international company"? You say you are ashamed to have been one of us, yet then you ask us for help?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 18 at 2019 8:10 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 08:10:07 -0400

I admit to having much negative feedback to your question, but I prayed about it. You should understand, your time spent in the service has helped you qualify for certain levels of employment. A career in security has allowed you to help others, for many years. You may not appreciate those service years, but I'm sure many families appreciate you being there to protect them. Be grateful for the skills you've acquired. Trust that a prospective employer will hire you as the best qualified applicant.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 18 at 2019 10:27 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 10:27:20 -0400

You lied on your employment application. The subsequent background check probably caught up with you. I wouldn’t hire you to clean the Johns! Tell the truth and your life will go much better.

Response by MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan made Oct 18 at 2019 11:56 AM

MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 11:56:06 -0400

My guess is that you originally joined the NG for whatever it could help you with in life. Now, you want to deny that reliance in some kind of "holier-than-thou" crusade to promote yourself for just you. We all want to be considered for what we are worth on our own merits, but you must that a part of what/who you are has been built on your time in the NG, whether you appreciate that or not. It si certainly not a blight on you for having been in the NG, and if that makes a difference in getting hired for the job you want vice not getting hired, then your experience is doing for you what you likely originally sought. I have never used my BS degree in the field that it covers, but being able to fill a square on a job application certainly made my time in college worth every dollar. If you really are willing to turn your back on the NG that served your needs, even though you may not have liked being deployed, then be willing to accept the lesser of the jobs and careers you are trying to build for yourself. What this boils down to for me is really this, if you are going to turn your back on your experience and lie about it then you don't deserve the advantages it can give you. There are lots of dead and homeless who would gladly have your situation of using their experience to advance themselves in life. You've ticked me off!!

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Oct 18 at 2019 2:41 PM

SGT Robert Martin — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 14:41:32 -0400

A SGT, and an MP and your not sure if you should continue to lie to get a job.? Really?? You've got much bigger problems to address first. Personal accountability, and integrity to start with. I will admit that it seems like a lot of people didn't do the right thing, and let you down In the past, but at this point it's on you. Grow up and get yourself together.

Response by MAJ Dave Robertson made Oct 18 at 2019 9:17 PM

MAJ Dave Robertson — Fri, 18 Oct 2019 21:17:59 -0400

There are many essays written in response to your original question, when in fact it boils down to you lied on an employment application for a security position. And now you want to take back what you said? Incredible! Your long winded explanation is called 'situational ethics'. "In this case, it wasn't really a lie, and even if it was, it was for a good reason". Good luck with that strategy.

Response by SFC Kenneth Goins made Oct 20 at 2019 4:07 PM

SFC Kenneth Goins — Sun, 20 Oct 2019 16:07:50 -0400

The military is a smaller world than you think. What you have written here has probably been or will be read by someone in the organization you’re attempting to gain employment with. You’re just not very bright, are you.

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Oct 31 at 2019 2:47 PM

Sgt Ivan Boatwright — Thu, 31 Oct 2019 14:47:28 -0400

YOU SERVED WITH HONOR, I ASSUME, HIDE NOTHING. I SERVED IN NAM 1965-1968 FOR 32 MONTHS, WHEN WE LEFT I WAS A CIVILIAN. I HAVE FELT GUILTY FOR NOT BEING THERE TO FIGHT UNTIL DEATH TO UPHOLD MY PERSONAL HONOR. I AM WRONG BECAUSE AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE, WE WERE WRONG TO HAVE BEEN THERE. THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF IF WE HAD NOT GONE. ALL MY FRIENDS WHO DIED FOR NOTHING AND ALL THE PEOPLE WHO I KILLED FOR NOTHING WILL HAUNT ME UNTIL I DIE. I BELIEVED IN WHAT I DID THEN. I HAVE AN EMPTY FEELING NOW. HOWEVER, WHEN I SEE THE COWARDS WHO PAY TO AVOID THE DRAFT, I AM MORE ANGRIER. I CAN STAND AGAINST TRUMP TODAY BECAUSE I WAS A MAN ABOUT MY SERVICE. I WAS BORN DEAF IN MY LEFT EAR, I HAD TO LEARN HOW AND THEN SNEAK PAST THE PHYSICAL TO JOIN THE MARINES AND THEN BEG TO GO. THAT IS MY EDGE AND YOURS AS WELL.

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Nov 1 at 2019 11:30 AM

SGT Jody Beach — Fri, 01 Nov 2019 11:30:23 -0400

Yea you pretty much wont get that job. You already lied on your job application. And I also am sure they are going to see your post on here if they are truly doing a background check.
And if you hated it so much why did you stay in for 8 years?

Response by SGT Andrew Ornelas made Nov 5 at 2019 8:02 AM

SGT Andrew Ornelas — Tue, 05 Nov 2019 08:02:08 -0500

Must not want or need that job too bad, ...but you've been there before apparently. If you're not proud of your service, then you were doing it wrong... no one to blame but yourself. Honorable service to ones nation is an achievement to be proud of, even if one disagrees with the mission.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Nov 8 at 2019 2:26 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Fri, 08 Nov 2019 14:26:58 -0500

You don't deserve help on this if you think serving your country in the Armed Forces was mistake.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2019 10:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 10:03:39 -0500

Hello James , you seem to be a real pathetic pos . I wouldn’t put you in the same league as bergdaul or manning , but I’m sure If you’re put in the right positions you could achieve their status. I commend your dubious attempt to besmirch those who have served proudly , but I don’t think you’ll find anyone as fucked up in the head as you, who would be able to sincerely reciprocate your twisted , bizarro “situation” . Now please go forth with your miserable fucking life.

Response by PO1 Mike Meehan made Nov 15 at 2019 5:47 AM

PO1 Mike Meehan — Fri, 15 Nov 2019 05:47:31 -0500

As a veteran, and a retiree who has been a hiring manager for a while, don't hide things, that's not a privacy issue, to a hiring manager it's an integrity issue and will lose you a potential job.
If you cannot show me your very best in terms of honesty and integrity in the interview process, how are you going to perform under REAL stress? I would file your resume in the "we are required by law to keep it on file for 6 months" pile and not schedule an interview.
Speaking of required by law, employers are required BY LAW to ascertain Veteran status of their employees, especially "protected Veterans" and comply with certain mandates regarding them. They don't get a choice in that, and you should cooperate. And stop being ashamed of your service, it's most likely what got you the experience to get to the interview you're trying to screw up.

Response by SFC Bryan Stetzer made Nov 16 at 2019 9:16 PM

SFC Bryan Stetzer — Sat, 16 Nov 2019 21:16:13 -0500

Not even sure where to begin with this. BLUF: You lied on your application, and now you're going to get caught, and you're trying to weasel out of it. Does that about sum it up? Lets be honest. This is NOT about your service. FYI, in a private-sector company, there is NOTHING that requires that they give you any preference whatsoever due to military service. The fact that you consider it a "mistake" but stayed in for 8 years, well, I don't know how to comperehend that. All of that aside, to get back to the real issue, you lied on the application. To be honest, alll other things aside, if I were hiring for an "armed security position", I would probably give you points for the military service. Not strictly for the "support the military" thing, but because in theory that means you know how to handle a weapon. On the other hand, once I found out you lied on your application, I would toss it in the trash, service or no, since "armed" means you have to be trusted, and lying on your application means you can't be. Suck it up, cupcake.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2019 2:49 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 02:49:22 -0500

So.....you lied on your application when asked about your military service. If you hated your service to your country.. why are you in this forum again???

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Nov 17 at 2019 10:46 AM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 10:46:06 -0500

N/A

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Nov 17 at 2019 1:08 PM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 13:08:46 -0500

What does,"I have 4 DD214's on my record", mean? When you get into your interview, make it clear that you do not want your military service to have any bearing on your qualification for employment . Also make sure you know where your local unemployment office is. Eight years??? When did it dawn on you that it was a mistake??? Did this epiphany (look it up) come before or after pay day? Be honest, what is there in your service record that you don't want your potential employer to know?

Response by 1SG Cj Grisham made Nov 17 at 2019 1:47 PM

1SG Cj Grisham — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 13:47:38 -0500

You joining the military was the mistake. Your service was not unless you were a complete douchebag for eight years. By saying that the military is a mistake, you wage a giant middle finger at every veteran here. I often joke that I only retired because I kept forgetting to get out, but nothing about my service was a mistake. I say this despite the fact that the Military almost ruined my life during my final three years. There are people I hold accountable, but not the military itself. The "mistake" I made was retiring because I felt bad leaving behind soldiers that weren't in as good a position to fight against idiocy than I was.

You need to take a step back and evaluate what you're really mad at.

Response by Stephen Hipp made Nov 17 at 2019 2:30 PM

Stephen Hipp — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 14:30:52 -0500

A"mistake" why were you scared? Ashamed of your country? Sounds like you have an estrogen problem

Response by 1SG Enrique Serrano made Nov 17 at 2019 4:57 PM

1SG Enrique Serrano — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 16:57:17 -0500

Calling BS on this one, stop it!

Response by SPC Vonnie Jones made Nov 17 at 2019 7:31 PM

SPC Vonnie Jones — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 19:31:38 -0500

Smh, although you get vet preference it doesn't mean you will get picked above all those people that were honest on there application. No matter what the reason, after finding out you withheld information I wouldn't hire you anyway. Don't understand why you don't want to disclose your service? Most applications ask if you want to use your vet preference. Honesty is always best policy. Be thankful your not a felon that really needs a job and made mistakes after high school. It's Thanksgiving be grateful.

Response by MAJ Roland McDonald made Nov 17 at 2019 10:08 PM

MAJ Roland McDonald — Sun, 17 Nov 2019 22:08:54 -0500

Since this a job for an armed security position. One can only assume you will have a deep dive background check done. Which will show you are prior service. If their job application ask if you are prior service and you answer no you are lying on the application. Leaving info off your resume is ok but when you fill out the paperwork they require for the job you need to answer truthfully and not omit. For that is grounds for not hiring you or if they found out later you lied either outright or by omission that is grounds for termination. Almost sounds like you want to be hired but on your own terms. Furthermore, if an international company is looking to hire you for an armed security position, that means they will do a very complete check. Your prior service shows you are more mature and easier to clear you for possible clearances that your job or future jobs will need. So you need to be truthful with them.

Response by SFC Steven Harris made Nov 18 at 2019 4:05 AM

SFC Steven Harris — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 04:05:00 -0500

Are you sure you are just not trolling this site

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Nov 18 at 2019 8:58 AM

A1C Riley Sanders — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 08:58:39 -0500

Wouldn't try to hide it, they already know, unless your service wasn't an honorable discharge , they will likely be checking your integrity with a one-on-one Interview.

Response by LCpl Dan McTiernan made Nov 18 at 2019 1:52 PM

LCpl Dan McTiernan — Mon, 18 Nov 2019 13:52:24 -0500

So you lied on your application for an armed security position with an international company. And you still say "that's easy to hide". Well, I know my hiring decision. What would cause me to hire someone who would be "armed" to safeguard people and / or facilities. Recommend some counseling.

Response by Capt Bill Gordon made Nov 19 at 2019 5:49 AM

Capt Bill Gordon — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 05:49:57 -0500

The olde 8 year enlistment; too bad you didn’t have a decision point part way through to correct your mistake.

Response by SPC Sean Weaver made Nov 19 at 2019 9:59 AM

SPC Sean Weaver — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 09:59:36 -0500

Were you drafted? Was this a choise you made. Stand behind your choises and own them. You chose to serve now to stand back and omit your service this place should not hire you for grounds your trying to hide employment information from your past.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2019 4:14 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 16:14:13 -0500

I love how you openly state that you hated your service, yet you came to the very people you said you hated working with to ask for help. Sounds like a personal problem.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2019 9:43 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Nov 2019 21:43:40 -0500

3 deployments,8yrs. Definitely surprised if that is the case. Would almost have to be 18 series, or ridiculously great at volunteering.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2019 12:46 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 12:46:52 -0500

Just NG? I’m pretty sure the men and women who died fighting were more than “just NG”

Response by SPC Mark Stevens made Nov 20 at 2019 6:04 PM

SPC Mark Stevens — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 18:04:47 -0500

Regardless of your feelings for or against your service, this is one you HAVE to comply with, as it is past job history, as well as security related. Anything less, and it will look as if you are deliberately hiding your service, leaving your prospective employer to read subtext that may or may not be there. The fact that you have multiple separation papers may also cause issues if you aren't completely open and up front with them (most of them will understand two or three, as Active, Reserve, and NG all require their own paperwork). Good luck on yor application!

Response by PV2 Noel Potter made Nov 20 at 2019 7:22 PM

PV2 Noel Potter — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 19:22:44 -0500

Consider this James an employer has the right to term you for lying on your application. Not including your service time. You may regret your time in the service but as an employer I have to wonder what else are lying about on your application

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2019 10:42 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Nov 2019 22:42:38 -0500

This entire post is confusing to me. the fact that you think that serving your country is a mistake. Is hard for me to comprehend, especially Because you’re on rally point seeking answers and advice and some sort of feedback from military members like myself. I think it’s a slap in the face that you consider that some sort of disgrace or mistake given the fact that there are men and women who are serving their country abroad and putting their lives in danger every single day. And they don’t think it’s a mistake, they don’t think it’s a disgrace, and they’re not here with their families during the holidays and they’re not complaining about it. With all due respect SGT I don’t think you’re asking the right questions, and I certainly don’t think that it’s appropriate to call your service to our country a mistake. If that is the case then I am so sorry for you, because it is an honor. Now to answer your question about your security job I think you need to contact them and ask them the very question that you are asking us, maybe ask them what sources they used and how they found out that you were just in the National Guard. That’s where I would start.And another thing you were not just in the National Guard the National Guard employees all of the time along with the reserve and sometimes takes the place of active duty units overseas and has the same amount of work and does the same training and provides the same success that all units in the army and other branches of our great. Nation

Response by CW2 Glen Caldwell made Nov 21 at 2019 5:05 AM

CW2 Glen Caldwell — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 05:05:01 -0500

If you tell them you made a mistake it’s better than them thinking you are hiding info. Especially since they will be doing a thorough search of background.

Response by PO3 Christine Reed made Nov 21 at 2019 9:58 AM

PO3 Christine Reed — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 09:58:30 -0500

Affirmative action doesn't mean they're required to hire you. It means that if two candidates are equally qualified we are going to hire you over the other one because you've been previously disadvantaged. The point is you have to be equally qualified.

Response by PO1 Cliff Heath made Nov 21 at 2019 3:12 PM

PO1 Cliff Heath — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 15:12:19 -0500

Do you have something to hide? Like an "OTH" or "BCD" or a RE Code that is not complimentary? And to me to say (even though I was just NG." is a slap in the face to all NG and Reservists who have and are serving, if it wasn't for them doing multiple deployments as you say you did yourself, the strain on active duty personnel would be a never-ending cycle of deployments, and it is already bad enough for all concerned. If you are looking for a job as an "Armed Security Position" your prior service would be something that would give you an edge, so why wouldn't you want them to know, doesn't make any sense to me anyway, something smells fishy.

Response by 1SG Jason Almond made Nov 21 at 2019 5:24 PM

1SG Jason Almond — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 17:24:07 -0500

Not to pile on here....Well, yea- I’m going to pike on. There’s so much stupidity here to address.
- you appeal to a veteran board for advice but you are ashamed of why you are here.....and I assume of us too?
- you hide the most relevant experience that made you hireable
- you lied to a SECURITY COMPANY about your background, knowing they will do a check
- you keep stating ‘just NG.’ What....AK-47 has a ‘NG class’ round that won’t kill you? You- and that idiot a$$ attitude is why R/NG dudes get crapped on.

What a stupid, mealy-mouthed pile of crap. I get it- you had a bad unit, squad leader, PSG (or more likely, your unit got a crappy Soldier) and things didn’t go your way. Welcome to the military. You obviously hung out for 8 years, was it all a ‘mistake?’

I think the one that made the mistake was the recruiter.

Response by SMSgt Bob Branchfield made Nov 21 at 2019 6:26 PM

SMSgt Bob Branchfield — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:26:46 -0500

Whether you were in the Guard or Reserve, guess what, you are military. Not sure why you’re embarrassed about that but I probably wouldn’t hire you just because you tried to hide it. Good luck snowflake!!

Response by CPO Nanette Johnson made Nov 21 at 2019 6:29 PM

CPO Nanette Johnson — Thu, 21 Nov 2019 18:29:19 -0500

You probably just failed the background check. JS. No matter what never hide or lie about anything, period

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2019 1:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 13:04:05 -0500

SGT James Graham - Looks like you already resolved the situation you're asking about, but I wanted to give you my two cents for future reference, because this is going to come up in your life again. I think you're looking at this the wrong way.

First, you say you want a job because you merit one, not because of a label. Good on you, that's a great attitude to have. Employers want to give jobs to people who merit them, because when someone gets a job who doesn't merit it, they're throwing away money and dealing with problems they wouldn't otherwise have. The problem is that if you're not applying for a job at a mom and pop operation, then you're not being interviewed directly by the company owner, and the only way for them to get good employees is by assigning managers to find them, and by giving those managers guidelines within which to operate and the simplest way to make sure that people fall into those guidelines is to evaluate them on paper and check education, training, work history, references, etc. Statistically, certain jobs like to hire former military because if you can get through it honorably, that says a lot about basic things like your ability to show up on time, do your job, pass a drug test, successfully complete training, and apply that training in a high-stress environment.

This is where my second point comes in. You sound very bitter about your time in the National Guard, and that's fine. I've served in the Guard and the Reserves in two branches of the military for over 20 years, both in full-time and regular M-day positions. I've had outstanding leaders, good leaders, mediocre leaders, and a few leaders that were flat-out incompetent and even toxic and abusive, or careless to the point of getting people killed (yes, there were investigations and consequences for those people). From my time in Afghanistan I deal with PTSD, and anybody who knows me can tell you I carry a lot of emotional scars and am very distrustful of leadership at times, and on more than one occasion the only thing that kept me in was that I had a mortgage payment and a family to feed. I absolutely know why soldiers kill themselves, and I know what it means to feel like years of your life have been thrown away by a military organization. If you're this angry about your time in the Army, I have no doubt you have good reason for that.

That said, you're letting your anger cloud your judgement. Your time in the Army may have involved a lot of wasted time. It may have involved a lot of pointless boredom and suffering. It may have involved you losing large amounts of money you were entitled to. It may have involved incompetent, toxic, or abusive leaders. But like I said, it also displays your ability to show up on time, pass a drug test, successfully complete training, and apply that training in a high-stress environment. Even if you hated every last minute of it, if you honorably separated, then you committed to and completed something that less than 10 percent of the adults in the United States will ever do, and that says a lot about your character. If you let your anger make you lose sight of that, then the people that wronged you win again, because they won the fight to shut down your mind. You're giving them space in your brain rent-free, and they will rule you for the rest of your life.

I'm not telling you that you're right or wrong to be angry. What I am telling you is that you went through some very difficult times and survived. If you take the right mental approach to those hard times, then you learn and develop because of those hard times, and it ceases to be wasted time. Acknowledge the bad stuff that happened, but also acknowledge the strength and character you developed, because you were stronger than the forces that tried to drag you down. If you can't be proud of what you did or the organization you were a part of, be proud that you survived and kept your honor. Put your service on your resume proudly.

Response by Col John Madison made Nov 22 at 2019 2:36 PM

Col John Madison — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 14:36:38 -0500

Of course, they'll find out about your military service, if they have any fundamental background screening whatsoever. The fact that you admitted publicly here that you tried to hide it, and that you hated it (for whatever reasons), will be duly evident to their HR department. Why in the world would you come onto a military forum asking for advice when you were not proud of your service? I would think you were probably a F/U and had something to hide. Is that so? Or did you get squared away due to some epiphany or life event?

Response by William Drummond made Nov 23 at 2019 10:25 AM

William Drummond — Sat, 23 Nov 2019 10:25:16 -0500

Strictly from an employer's point of view, lying on a job application is grounds for termination after you hire the person. If everything were equal and you, with 8 years of service, and an ex-con with 8 years of prison, applied for the same position, and:

- you answered "no" to questions regarding military service, and
- the ex-con answered yes to having a criminal history and was otherwise forthcoming;

I would hire the ex-con and send you packing, while adding your name to our internal "do not hire" list with a listed reason of "lack of candor."

I fully understand that serving in the military is not always an enjoyable experience. Sometimes circumstances outside of your control make your service miserable. Perhaps your chain of command was full of jerks, but it is highly unlikely that you served with the same jerks all eight years. (Perhaps NG service is different: almost all of my real life experience is regular Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines.)

I believe you will find most employers very forgiving of those with a criminal mistake in the past and who are truthful about it. THAT person will appreciate having the job and will work that much harder to keep it. The dishonest veteran who is ashamed of their service, perhaps there is LTH discharge, will whine about every less-than-desireable assignment, will think he/she is entitled to the higher profile, or most desirable assignments. In essence, the equivalent of a kid with a high school education and no ambition expecting to land a job flipping burgers for $15 or $20 per hour. The world owes nobody anything.

My suggestion is to seek counsel from a veterans group and find the positives that you acquired from eight years of service. Even if your discharge was LTH, you did something right to stick around for eight years. Just as I find it distasteful to define a person by their worst action without first looking at all the prior poditive actions, I find it equally distasteful to allow a trying moment in time (in the greater scheme of life) define your service. Certainly, there is some pride in there, otherwise the embarrassingly shameful act would have ended at the conclusion of your first enlistment. Only a truly cognitively challenged person would voluntarily continue to act in an embarrassingly shameful manner which causes them such inner angst and disgust.

Regardless of your perception, this country, and I appreciate the sacrifice you made and the many unseen sacrifices made by your family and friends. Have you considered how you dishonor their sacrifices when you make such derisive remarks about your service?

Response by MSG Dale Manning made Nov 25 at 2019 7:20 AM

MSG Dale Manning — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:20:12 -0500

You are already coming off as shady, since you originally tried to hide information from them. Also, if you served years, and it took that long to realize it was a "mistake", you have very poor judgement and I wouldn't hire you anyway.

Response by AN Donald Miller made Nov 25 at 2019 12:05 PM

AN Donald Miller — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:05:23 -0500

My mom was fired when her employer found out she lied on her application. They told her I'd she would have just been honest up front it would have been no big deal.

Response by SPC James Seigars made Nov 27 at 2019 7:31 AM

SPC James Seigars — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:31:34 -0500

The first thing I would do is verify with them that you are indeed the person they are meaning to interview for the job since I know from experience that James is a very common name as is Graham. They COULD be looking for a Graham James, or even a different James Graham who also applied for the same position and disclosed his status as a Veteran. Since you didn’t disclose your service by your own admission it seems strange that they are asking for paperwork that shows your service & discharge status, don’t you think? Also if they are meaning to hire you even after it was found out you didn’t disclose your service as long as you are willing to provide the DD214’s at the interview I would be very careful because they are either checking your character to see if you will admit to serving and tell them why you didn’t disclose it or they are looking for people who have served but have a problem with the Military, Government or Country as a whole for whatever reason.

Response by SGT Bruce McDonald made Nov 28 at 2019 9:45 PM

SGT Bruce McDonald — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 21:45:26 -0500

Don't worry, you're not getting the job. Lack of cander on your part.

Response by AB Edward Mondini made Nov 29 at 2019 12:32 AM

AB Edward Mondini — Fri, 29 Nov 2019 00:32:45 -0500

Suppose you were working for a company you decided you didn’t like, so you quit and applied for a job at another company. My question to you is:
Would you omit working for the company you “made a mistake working for”?
And if it shows up on the new company’s investigation & they asked you about it, are you going to tell them “that other company sucked & I made a mistake working for them”?
Because if you do, good luck finding a career with any hopes of advancement. Any company you apply for will regard you as too radioactive.
Cut the BS attitude. The only words out of your mouth should be positive, yes, even about your military service.
Geesh.

Response by CPL John McCulley made Nov 29 at 2019 3:45 PM

CPL John McCulley — Fri, 29 Nov 2019 15:45:55 -0500

Well, maybe you'll get lucky & they'll solve the problem for you by not offering you the job. After all, you stated you answered "no" to all the prior service questions, so you've already lied on your application. I would worry more about that "mistake"!

Response by SGT Chris Bennett made Dec 1 at 2019 12:10 PM

SGT Chris Bennett — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 12:10:15 -0500

It seems like you have a problem you miserable pouch

Response by SGT Chris Bennett made Dec 1 at 2019 12:18 PM

SGT Chris Bennett — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 12:18:48 -0500

It took eight years to decide
Exactly when did you convert

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 1 at 2019 11:15 PM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sun, 01 Dec 2019 23:15:38 -0500

Having served in the Military for 22 years I can't think of a reason not to include it. One place i sent a cover letter and resume they received 458 and picked mine out for a interview above all the others. I turned it down as the pay wasn't high enough even though the interviewer argued for more. .Another job of over 850 applicants I was picked and hired. As Management Myself in the civilian I preferred hiring Veterans' i already know they could work as part of a team and did things without complaint because they knew they had to be done. There also is nothing wrong with Veteran's preference, those that weren't Veteran's had more years to look than You did nor did they offer some of the experience You did and in the Military could be entrusted with duties as a younger person that a civilian of that age group would be very unlikely to have experience with. There was no eight year mistake after High school either, You had a full time job which also included serving Your country. This would not be a confession as You put it but laying out extra qualifications many do not have.

Response by SSG Richard Hackwith made Dec 2 at 2019 7:06 PM

SSG Richard Hackwith — Mon, 02 Dec 2019 19:06:33 -0500

Since you are applying for an "armed security" position, that entails a thorough background check. If you conceal anything about your background, you will not get the job. It's called living in the real world, just do it.

Response by CPO Nate S. made Dec 3 at 2019 8:33 AM

CPO Nate S. — Tue, 03 Dec 2019 08:33:19 -0500

SGT James Graham While you posted your "request for guidance" > 5 months ago I am STILL going to be very harsh!

If you feel you made a "mistake" in serving your country then if you lie to them or not is of not concern! I would not consider you a veteran!!! If you are ashamed of your service or your country please move to another country. If this company has a job in another country move their and don't come back! Be a "Man without a country!"

However, if you feel that in your eight years you did some good, and you must have in 8-years, else why would you have wanted to stay so long? Besides you made SGT!

The purpose of a ready reserve is to be ready to serve when their nation calls. You took advantage of the training that the military provided that set you up for the job you want. So, if your service was a mistake then deny it. But, if you have any shred of honor, which they are looking for in this "armed security position" them proudly tell them!!! If you lack honor (a.k.a. a spine that will be required for your "new job") then I am not sure people, least of all me, cares.

The decision is yours. Your choice is a little like Peter's choice a story as told in Luke 24:54-62 -
(https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22%3A54-62&version=ESV)

FYI, I applied all the time using my DD-214. Only once it did me any good as from 1996 when I retired to 2016 when I got hire by my new company it appeared to do me little good! But, I NEVER regretted my service. I regretted retiring too early!!!

My wife's father served in WWII (US Navy - Retired Submariner), my father (US Air Force - Service Connected Disabled 100% Retired) in Korea, my wife is US Navy (ret) and I am USN (Ret). Our fathers passed respectively in 1982 and 1999. My son attended The Citadel until he was injured.

I don't know what medals you have and don't care!!! You could have the MoH and you'd be dishonoring the men who earn it and I be calling into question who made the decision to afford you such an honor. If you give a damn at all about your nation and your own family's honor - TELL the TRUTH and DON'T be ASHAMED! But if you are ashamed of your family, your nation and yourself - just lie!

Here is a theme song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh-JoW_8qw0) from a movie you might try watching for perspective! Listen to the words carefully. Again, if you having any level of honor - DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

Luke 22:54-62 ESV - - Bible Gateway

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Response by Maj John Bell made Dec 5 at 2019 3:52 PM

Maj John Bell — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 15:52:34 -0500

I used to run a placement service. My advice, NEVER lie, misstate, or omit on an application.For most hourly positions it will stop you from getting hired if it comes out beforehand. If it comes out after the hire it will damage your reputation.

For salaried positions, especially sensitive ones, or positions of upper management it will result in immediate dismissal.

Response by Capt John Schmitt made Dec 6 at 2019 11:51 AM

Capt John Schmitt — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 11:51:47 -0500

Since they get credit for hiring you as a veteran, it's to your advantage to have your "paperwork" in order. Either it's a standard blurb requesting you have your proof of employability ready to present when interviewing, or they are on to you being a valid veteran. Only your most recent or up to date DD-214 is valid, it should contain all service credited to you. In that you state you "hate" your service, and want to "hide it", along with seeming to not want to be hired, you should also seek professional mental health assistance.

Response by PVT Cyrel Moore made Dec 13 at 2019 4:14 PM

PVT Cyrel Moore — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:14:06 -0500

HUH Why would you deny that you was in the service? Why would you ask the question if you know they are going to find out. What are you really hiding? Im not sure if I understand what your objective is. If you think it was a mistake to be in why did you stay in for 8 years? Why not just tell them up front that you had been a soldier. Not sure that they will see it as a mistake. did you not get an honorable discharge? I was not a exceptional soldier by any means but I was proud to serve.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Dec 13 at 2019 5:01 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:01:28 -0500

Graham, #1--Do you have something to hide? Your comments indicate that. #2--Affirmative Action means we hire the most qualified regardless of race, etc. So, after the interview, it is up to the company to decide if you are a "fit for the job". #3--A DD 214 will give them a indication if you can handle a firearm.

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Dec 15 at 2019 12:00 AM

SGT Joseph Dutton — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 00:00:29 -0500

Any employer thinks that serving your state & country is a mistake then I wouldn't accept the position your applying for. It tells me that they are ungrateful for your commitment for serving your country. Also it is illegal to deny employment based on your active service with the reserves / national guard. Because by law the employer has to pay you while absent for summer camp. Also if your are deployed they must pay up to 14 days and your position is paused until your release from active duty and returned to civilian status while still / if maintaining reserve / guard status. There has been a few cases where employers didn't hire or rehire reservist / guard members because its a lose to the employer even though they get a good tax credit if they did. Those that did ended up in some hefty law suits and the employer lost. In closing: never hide your service, be proud of it and let no one ever tell you it was a mistake to include thy self. We don't need V.N. all over again.

Response by SGT Doug Blanchard made Dec 17 at 2019 12:49 PM

SGT Doug Blanchard — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 12:49:15 -0500

I would tell my perspective employer that you did not mark the box for prior service/Veteran on the grounds that you are seeking or applying for the job on your personal qualifications or merits. If they are doing as thorough background check on you as you stated, they are going to find where you were in th ARNG. It is best to be honest and upfront when you apply for any job, as employers have wats of finding out the truth. Just be frank about it and let them know that you do not want Veteran preference to be used in hiring you.
As to why you reference your time in the military a mistake, they is between you and your maker, that is if you are a believer.

Response by SPC Melanie Vancegonzalez made Dec 22 at 2019 11:43 PM

SPC Melanie Vancegonzalez — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 23:43:41 -0500

If you really want the job you should not lie on your application. You stated you checked no to all military related questions and when they do the background check they will know you lied. Most applications have a disclaimer before you sign your name saying as much. It's considered a criminal fraud offense in most cases. Next time leave the box blank. As far as them knowing your prior military, there are a number of ways they can find out online. I guessing you put some sensitive information on your application like name, DOB, Social, address, etc. That is all the information someone needs to look you up on a number of sites online. Plus most employers do check out potential employees beforehand. They can check you Facebook, Twitter, and any other online sites open to public access. But most likely they have so many prior military that apply for that job that they are used to just telling everyone to bring their DD214s. Just a little advice, if you hate your military service then you probably don't want a job where most of your coworkers are prior military. Because most of them are most likely proud of their service and when they find out you are not then it may make your work environment unpleasant. You might want to find a job in a company surrounded by civilians who don't know anyone in the military. Also, I think you are confusing affirmative action with veteran preference. Affirmative action is favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously, for instance, giving minorities a job to meet regulations on having a certain number of minority versus white employees. But while Veteran preference gives eligible veterans preference in appointment over many other applicants it does not guarantee the veteran a job.

Response by SPC Bill Schatzman made Dec 23 at 2019 8:56 AM

SPC Bill Schatzman — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 08:56:30 -0500

A few thing strike me about your Service. "an 8 year mistake" "hide My Service" was there something which caused you to be disciplined you want to hide? There is NOT a law forcing the employer to hire you! USERRA is a federal law which says they can not discriminated because of your service! This law supersedes all Employment rights acts, federal and state, it says so in the first paragraph. It applies to all employers in the USA, to include foreign companies and governments operating in the USA, if the job is on US soil (Embassies are not US soil) If I were a HR or top person in the hiring of employees, I would not consider you! A top Security person must be Honest, not "hiding" previous experience.... It would not be because of your service, but your lack of candor when asked and your lying on the application about your service. Those things remove you from the position of Trust you seek.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Dec 23 at 2019 3:30 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:30:07 -0500

Most employers want to know who they may hire and what they've been doing prior to their application. Just because you disliked serving doesn't mean you should hide it from an employer. Of course recieving a bad discharge may have some bearing on your employability. Also, you are applying for an armed security position, and that places a lot of liability on the employer. They may want to know how you responded to strict rules and close supervision, particularly with firearms.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2019 11:24 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:24:53 -0500

Wtf did I just read?

Response by CPL Jay Kirwan made Dec 24 at 2019 11:40 AM

CPL Jay Kirwan — Tue, 24 Dec 2019 11:40:45 -0500

If they're doing a background check, they will see your service. And if they're doing a background check and you'll be "armed" I doubt they'll hire you regardless because you lied right from the start. Why would you come here to ask that question anyway? Sounds to me like you should be asking all of your other "service" hating friends out in the world, not us Veterans that are proud of our service and our Country! On that note, I'm sure there are plenty of security positions available in other countries, maybe you should try that so you don't have this dilemma again. FFS

Response by Sgt Michael Schillling made Dec 24 at 2019 12:15 PM

Sgt Michael Schillling — Tue, 24 Dec 2019 12:15:53 -0500

What ah dumb ass

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2019 6:11 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Dec 2019 18:11:52 -0500

HR Manager here. Their is no law requiring someone to hire a veteran. There is only a tax advantage to hiring a recently separated veteran.
If they don't hire you, it'll be because you don't meet their needs, not because of your veteran status.

Response by CPL Michael Moore made Dec 25 at 2019 1:50 PM

CPL Michael Moore — Wed, 25 Dec 2019 13:50:20 -0500

I don’t no where to begin so let’s recap.
You are applying for a position with a company in an occupation that most definitely require skills :
That you say were a mistake acquiring during service that you hated.
You wish to hide that service.
If you really wanted the job like you say , don’t you think it would be a better move to sell the skills and experience you have to help you get it?
Most companies require a background investigation to confirm you held at least a secret clearance or are eligible for one.
This costs between 12 and 18 grand.
You ain’t going to be able to hide anything.
So omission is not gonna get you hired.
So why don’t you come clean and admit the real reasons you want to hide your service ; and maybe we can give you some better options.
Because right now unless there’s a poison open for attention seeking drama queens you’re changes aren’t looking to good.
And on the off chance you do get hired do us all a solid and name the company that offered you a contract so the rest of us can avoid them.

Response by SGT Kenneth Partyka made Dec 26 at 2019 12:43 PM

SGT Kenneth Partyka — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 12:43:28 -0500

I'm confused on MANY levels here. I am a corporate recruiter and have been for 17 years so I am looking at this question through those glasses.
1) Why did you not disclose your military service?
2) Why do you "hate" your service?
3) How do you have four DD-214's?
4) If you hated your service so much, why did you re-enlist? No one does 8 years in one hitch.
5) Why would you come to RallyPoint and say you hated your service?
Something doesn't add up about this post and my guess is you never served. I get the feeling this was just posted to stir up trouble.
That being said, if you applied to any of the companies I have worked for, you would not be considered any further for lying on your application. You are in a very small world if you are looking for a company that considers Military Service as a mistake. Most certainly in an ARMED SECURITY field.

Response by Sgt Bob Barr made Dec 26 at 2019 1:18 PM

Sgt Bob Barr — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 13:18:14 -0500

If you think you made a mistake joining any branch of service then you should not ask for advice from this forum

Response by LtCol Dennis Ivan made Dec 26 at 2019 5:19 PM

LtCol Dennis Ivan — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 17:19:44 -0500

You lied on your application. Your are dishonest and pretty shallow. You wont get the job by default.

Response by SGT Skyler Bagley made Dec 26 at 2019 8:02 PM

SGT Skyler Bagley — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 20:02:09 -0500

Honestly, your not being honest about something. There is no way in private security where half the people served, you would be so bashful about service. Affirmative action is not an issue for a private security company, their may be a tax right off incentive for them but that is all. I guarantee that credit is already maximized by the sheer nature of the job and quantity of veteran personnel already employed. Ok benefit of the doubt given, you lied on your application/resume why? I think you have a bad chapter code, misconduct, or you portrayed yourself as something you know is wrong. That is what they think too trust me. If you don’t have the Integrity to simply fill out a resume and offer proof you should probably be self employed. No hard feeling but you don’t belong carrying a weapon or working private security. Your hiding something and in that line of work honesty is more important then experience. I can teach a man to operate but I cannot teach character. You sir seem to lack some of the major character qualifications of the industry.

- admittedly there is a chance your just stupid and presented the issue poorly. Making yourself seem like a shady shit bag but actually being a great guy idk.

Response by PFC Garry Tarvin made Dec 26 at 2019 9:45 PM

PFC Garry Tarvin — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 21:45:57 -0500

As far as I know, you can say you served or not, and that's all the info an employer can ask for. An application can ask if you served but can't ask for details like discharge character etc. You don't have to say you ever served. Depends on how much you want the job I guess.

Response by 1SG Charles Mickelsen made Dec 26 at 2019 9:52 PM

1SG Charles Mickelsen — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 21:52:53 -0500

Not being proud of your military service is a mistake!. Even if it was ( just ARNG). What an idiot!!. Being a soldier is an honor, service is what you make it.

Response by SGT Russell Chewning made Dec 27 at 2019 2:54 AM

SGT Russell Chewning — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 02:54:38 -0500

People, people, people.... Can you seriously not recognize a troll post when you see it?

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2019 11:17 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:17:03 -0500

You should always disclose military service. Not just because it is the law but it verifies you have experience. Leaving out pertinent military or work history means you will do the same on the job. Therefore, since you are applying for a security position you should be honest up front. If there is something with your service that comes up then it is better that you are honest up front rather than hiding 8 years of service to your country no matter what capacity it was that you served. If you wanna decline Veterans status then that is your choice, but employers should have a full picture up front, hence the reason for a background check. If it was medical reasons there are some issues that are now not disclosed due to law that would be mental health records as new laws makes this undisclosable except through expressed written consent. This would be understandable more than denying your service record. Hope this gives you some insight.

Response by Col Ian O'Connell made Dec 27 at 2019 11:40 AM

Col Ian O'Connell — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:40:04 -0500

Your history is your history, good or bad. As a retired military member, I know not everyone had a great time in the service. That's not a good or bad thing, just a fact. However, as a current hiring manager, any omissions or lies (like you are doing) is a disqualifier for hiring someone. Be honest, don't lie. You likely learned from your service, even if it was that you are glad you didn't go active duty. Learning is a good thing. Lying is not.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Dec 27 at 2019 1:22 PM

TSgt David Olson — Fri, 27 Dec 2019 13:22:16 -0500

In the good old days of the draft, if you were male and seeking any kind of employment, the application would usually say, submit a copy of DD 214, if a veteran. Obviously any type of government job, it was mandatory. Any government or civilian position, even today, that requires a security clearance will state attach a copy of the 214.

Response by SGT Dave Lanz made Dec 28 at 2019 8:11 AM

SGT Dave Lanz — Sat, 28 Dec 2019 08:11:01 -0500

Dont expect to get a job until the company has met their hiring quota for minorities.

Response by CPL David Widding made Dec 28 at 2019 11:07 AM

CPL David Widding — Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:07:41 -0500

I'm shocked to find out an international security company has access to background checks. They've probably run a background check or done a Google search on you already. The fact that they're considering hiring someone who lied on their application speaks volumes about their qualifications/ integrity. IF you didn't want to appear Shady you probably should have disclosed the fact you were in the military. Most security companies hire prior service not because affirmative action but because the skill and training are comparable to security work. Before you accept this job you really want just consider how many other Liar's they've already hired before you.

Response by PO1 William Van Syckle made Dec 28 at 2019 12:07 PM

PO1 William Van Syckle — Sat, 28 Dec 2019 12:07:46 -0500

You know? I’m still trying to wrap my head around the fact that a person that “Hated” his time in service is even on here asking questions such as this unless that person is just here to stir the crap. I don’t think he should be on this forum when he thinks he made an 8 year mistake after high school. Really? You stayed in for 8 years? Why?.....

Response by CPO Charlie Kessler made Dec 28 at 2019 6:52 PM

CPO Charlie Kessler — Sat, 28 Dec 2019 18:52:25 -0500

For someone who is ashamed of your service you have a lot of DD 214s. Why aren’t you proud of your service to our nation?

Response by SGT Montana Crawford made Dec 29 at 2019 12:42 AM

SGT Montana Crawford — Sun, 29 Dec 2019 00:42:47 -0500

Your military experience is directly related to the job you're applying for. If you didn't put it on your resume, and you're so angry about your service, then you're more than welcome to set yourself up for failure however you like.
Maybe show up late, because the military trains punctuality. Don't bring a resume at all, because the military trains preparation. Show up in dirty wrinkled clothes, because the military (normally) instills personal pride.
I'm sure there are a dozen other ways to say "Please don't hire me (because I'm a veteran)", I'll leave them to your imagination.

Response by SSG Paul Phillips made Dec 29 at 2019 1:17 AM

SSG Paul Phillips — Sun, 29 Dec 2019 01:17:54 -0500

You are not worth hiring if you can not be honest.

Response by TSgt James Warfield made Dec 29 at 2019 2:10 AM

TSgt James Warfield — Sun, 29 Dec 2019 02:10:20 -0500

I think you are missing a key point and have some miss understanding of affirmative action.
Missing the key point is that Employers want to see a persons whole work history, rather it's full time or part time, rather you think is significant or not. Also a company is not required by law to hire any one just because they have military back ground, yes there are incentives for company that does hire ex military, however it's not a guarantee that just because you were in the military you will get a job.
Your training in the military is just as important as someone whom gets training from a none military source. I can tell you security does seek qualified ex military due to there training, however I can assure you that you won't get the job based on this alone, I know from experience.
Finially I am doing some research but I don't know of any law that requires a company to hire someone just because they were in the military. There was a law that helped someone get a their job back they left when the joined the military that was only if one did one hitch and din't re-up, not even sure that law exist anymore. However if you didn't work for a company and you applied there i no law that requires them to hire you just because you were in the military.
This is statement found on google "Why do companies ask for veteran status?
The data allows companies to measure the results of their veteran recruiting efforts. ... This requirement is to ensure that companies doing business with the government are not discriminating against veterans or protected veterans and that they're taking active steps to recruit and hire them.Dec 5, 2016" So you see companies don't have to hire you, it doesn't guarantee you a job, in fact affirmative action is many for minorities and women

How well you fit the job and your back ground will get you the job. If you want the job then you will list all your training and your work including your military training and record.

Response by CPL Allan Suddeth made Dec 29 at 2019 5:48 AM

CPL Allan Suddeth — Sun, 29 Dec 2019 05:48:42 -0500

Sounds to me like you are already shady. Why in the hell would you feel the need to deny your service to your country. Just because a company offers "veterans preference" does not mean you will get the job any way. Personally you already lied on your application, so to me, that should be a hard no when it comes to you getting the job. You should probably rethink what you put on this site for other veterans and service members to respond to. I hope they light you up on here, because someone who doesn't take pride in their service to their country has no business soliciting advice from those who served their country proudly, with honor. It doesn't matter if you were a nasty girl, reservist, or active duty. You served long enough to make the rank of sergeant, and I don't see how someone with a lack of honor and dignity could have been promoted to E5. All I can say is your unit must have been desperate to fill slots, and you are undeserving. People like you should get punched in the face! POG!

Response by CW4 Robert C. made Dec 30 at 2019 7:18 AM

CW4 Robert C. — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 07:18:20 -0500

First of all why would you be thinking that you made an 8 year mistake? Serving is no mistake, it is an honor to serve considering that only 1% of our nations people serve. I think you have priorities all backwards. Boast your military service, unless of course you were forced out. Then that is why the law is there to ensure that you give a complete history and therefore will not be a burden to the company. So screw your head on right and be proud.

Response by TSgt Wayne Johnson made Dec 30 at 2019 10:00 AM

TSgt Wayne Johnson — Mon, 30 Dec 2019 10:00:46 -0500

If you hate the military so much, then why in hell are you on a VETERANS site? Personally, I hope you dont get the job. And personally I think you should never foul a veteran's group again. Take your hatred for the Military and put it where the sun dont shine.

Response by CPO Todd Boyd made Jan 1 at 2020 10:41 PM

CPO Todd Boyd — Wed, 01 Jan 2020 22:41:03 -0500

The entire situation sounds “shady.”

Response by SGT Danny Sr. made Jan 2 at 2020 12:56 PM

SGT Danny Sr. — Thu, 02 Jan 2020 12:56:28 -0500

Ok Question I don’t know of Any Veterans who wouldn’t want to show Their DD-214 unless it has some misconduct in it and you Are applying for an Armed security job.
Sgt Danny Paul Ret

Response by SGT John Graham made Jan 3 at 2020 6:37 PM

SGT John Graham — Fri, 03 Jan 2020 18:37:57 -0500

Armed security and you want to not be transparent on the application? If you employ subterfuge, lie, or try to conceal FACTS on your application you will terminated if hired at all. If you hate your military experience, that's fine. Most likely for a armed position, you're going to have to be Bonded prior to hire. Just be honest about it. Should you be hired (doubtful) and have to use your weapon, you will be under a microscope. In many cases a endoscope will be used so often your M.D. Internist will have data for years. This whole subject seems to be contrived, just saying.

P.S.: NO RELATION

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Jan 5 at 2020 12:29 AM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 00:29:33 -0500

Falsifying your application through omission is still grounds for termination. So the next job you can lie about your military service and your past termination for falsifying a job application. In certain states, employers who hire veterans get a state tax credit. Thus, you are denying them income. Plus, they could argue that they have a right to know your service and type of discharge. A dishonorable discharge can only be acquired for a felony (1 year and 1 day or longer potential confinement) and DD precludes ownership or possession of firearms. If they allowed you to carry a gun, their bond insurance carrier could cancel them, as well as their liability carrier and the state could come after your license. Suck it up buttercup, disclose your military past and your type of discharge.

Response by PO1 Ernie Johnson made Jan 5 at 2020 10:23 PM

PO1 Ernie Johnson — Sun, 05 Jan 2020 22:23:34 -0500

First of all you admitted here in this forum that you lied on your application for employment. Regardless that it deals with your hatred for being in the service which was voluntary on your part. The company should not hire you on the basis of lying. You obviously don’t want that job or you would have filled out the form correctly and then let them decide. If at the hiring point they gave indication that they were decisive because of your service, at that point you could have declined the job stating that was not a proud moment of your past and you can not accept a job based on that. Maybe next time think a bit more before you volunteer for something.

Response by SGT Drue Rockwell made Jan 12 at 2020 4:28 PM

SGT Drue Rockwell — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 16:28:40 -0500

Shame of one's service is a sad state, regardless of one's politics or personal beliefs, unless one's own service was personally shameful. Don't brag about your service but don't act like a shameful dirtbag and try to hide your service. Square your shoulders and move forward with your service and yourself being enough. Clear your conscience and move on. Don't whine and moan to those brothers in arms while attacking the service which made you such.
Also, I would posit that lying about your service (saying no to vet questions) is far more shameful than any service you may or may not have rendered.

Response by CSM Christopher St. Cyr made Jan 16 at 2020 9:39 PM

CSM Christopher St. Cyr — Thu, 16 Jan 2020 21:39:37 -0500

You lied on the job application. That is plenty of reason not to hire you.

Response by CPO Lou Oliver made Jan 23 at 2020 2:25 PM

CPO Lou Oliver — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 14:25:02 -0500

An 8 year mistake? Hiding your DD214? Sounds like you did not get the best discharge. As others have told you, it appears that you are not a good match for the job.

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Jan 24 at 2020 11:53 AM

MSG Allan Davis — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 11:53:02 -0500

Well it is clear that you definitely didn’t earn a moral compass while you “served”. RP is a place for military issues and to connect with PROUD AD and PS members of the armed forces. Please take your sniveling ass to the exit and don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Your lack of integrity, honor and morals have been noted.

Response by SPC Laura Mitchell made Mar 5 at 2020 7:32 PM

SPC Laura Mitchell — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 19:32:14 -0500

They’ve obviously checked YOU out, so why are you asking the questions. Is there something bad on your 214s? I’m one the veterans that’s not in a Priority class (77-81), although I usually get some credit for being the widow of a Vietnam era veteran.

Response by CWO4 Terrence Clark made Mar 23 at 2020 12:17 PM

CWO4 Terrence Clark — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 12:17:41 -0400

Following a nearly 28 yr Navy career, I worked 24 years in senior Sales/HR/Labor Relations/hiring mgr positions in construction sales, non-profit, food retail and private correction industries. Based on your comments, you have two huge hurdles to overcome. First, my broad spectrum civilian work experience has demonstrated a less than enthusiastic interest in hiring veterans. Your performance once you gain that first position will be your baseline criteria for your subsequent positions. For those subsequent positions your service will only be a footnote. Second, any hiring Mgr worthy of the name will immediately pick up on your "hatred" , shame or however the negative feeling is you feel for your service. They will not want to bring that attitude into their team.

Time for some real reflection on your part. Never, NEVER, allow negative feelings about a previous employer be anywhere near bubbling to the service during an interview. Nor later, after hire, for that matter.

There is a catch phrase that I've heard since I (service) retired that I kinda like. "Embrace the suck".

Response by SrA Arnold Costello made Mar 27 at 2020 10:01 PM

SrA Arnold Costello — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 22:01:13 -0400

If they're going to find out through the background check or, as you said, seem to have already found out it's going to seem way, way shadier if you don't mention it. Come clean. If they'll find it in the background check they might wonder why you didn't just tell them, maybe? It's best to be open about this stuff.
And, really, I'm just not wrapping my brain around why you'd want to hide it in the first place but I'm not going to assume anything.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2024 7:46 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 07:46:28 -0500

I done forgot all about this troll question until now