How can a civilian working in a military organization learn about military bearing?

Leigh Russell — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:42:00 -0400

How can a civilian working in a military organization (Air Force) learn about military bearing and other cultural things when we don't have the opportunity to attend basic training, officer training school, etc? Can anyone recommend books or other training avenues where I can get smart on military culture so that I can better fit in? Thanks for your help!

(The background motivating this question):

I was asked to be a supervisor, but within the first day, I had uniformed officers (who I supervised) questioning my decisions (in public, in front of everyone else). I reported it to the OIC, who counseled the officer(s). One officer then sent me a text message apologizing, saying "she was judging me because 'we military members have ways we are taught to communicate, act, handle conflict, etc., which you don't exhibit.'" While (thankfully), I'm not in that job any longer, I may be taking on another supervisory role sometime soon, where I worry the same thing could happen again. Ugh. Just trying to figure out my blind spots so I can be more effective in the next job.

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 13 at 2018 4:47 PM

SPC David Willis — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:47:40 -0400

Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about it. I would recommend learning the rank structure, but at the end of the day you're a civilian and soldiers shouldn't expect you to walk, talk or act like a soldier.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Mar 13 at 2018 4:48 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:48:00 -0400

Leigh Russell: I don't know to which branch you are referring; but, I read a book about the Army in the PX.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 4:49 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:49:14 -0400

Leigh Russell A very good question. This information will help:

http://www.citizensoldiersupport.org/lib/resources/ORNC%20Military%20Culture%20101%20Workshop%2014%20Sep%2012.pdf

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Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Mar 13 at 2018 4:56 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:56:57 -0400

Perhaps there are books and documentaries on the subject, but I think the best way for someone outside of military experience to understand military culture better is to simply ask questions and actively observe. Asking intelligent questions and being a keen observer won't make you military of course, but then again, neither will a book. Still, you'll probably have better understanding than the average civilian.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 5:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:10:17 -0400

"FRONT LEANING REST POSITION, MOVE!! IN CADENCE, EXCERCISE." HAHA

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Mar 13 at 2018 5:26 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:26:18 -0400

If you know someone that served about 10-15 years ago, they may have some manuals that were given to them when they became NCO's. They helped me out when I was in, and being an officers driver for a while you learned a few things also.

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Mar 13 at 2018 5:36 PM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:36:07 -0400

Plenty of books out there to learn about the military and military culture, but from the background you provided, that may only be a shading of the problem. Does it really matter that the individual questioning your decisions was a uniformed officer? Would you have handled the situation differently if it were not a uniformed officer?

There is a time and place for questioning decisions, and if you are in leadership position, it is your responsibility to communicate clearly, and early, when those times are, and when those times are not. I would recommend that if you find yourself in that position in the future, regardless of who is doing the questioning, handle the situation directly and immediately. It is always easier to be a hard ass up front, and then lighten up over time than it is trying to be a "nice guy" and then tightening the screws when that doesn't work out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 5:36 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:36:32 -0400

Working within a military work place has it's own military bearing structure. When I worked at the Naval SRF, there was a big sign that said, "Plan Your Work, and Work Your Plan. And, "Total Quality Assurance was the Theme."

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 5:47 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:47:42 -0400

Could you elaborate on the details of your example? It would help get a feel for the issue. For example, were the officers questioning your decision after you announced it as a decision, or had you said something like "I'm planning on doing this...". In the military officers are expected to state their honest opinion and try to find problem areas on proposed plans before they happen. But once the decision is made, they are to execute it as if it were their own idea. Also, you said this happened the first day? What sort of decisions were you announcing on day one? Had you sought any input on this decision from the officers prior to making this decision?

So without details of the type of decision, the level of the decision and the process you went through before announcing this decision, it's really impossible to give any useful advice about military culture. And it doesn't seem like this is a cultural issue anyway. It is not in the military culture to publicly oppose a leaders decision AFTER the decision has been made. So if that is what occurred you simply had officers failing in their duties, not exhibiting a culture you need to learn about.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 6:03 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 18:03:50 -0400

Leigh,

Much depends on the specific circumstances. Are these relatively "senior" officers (O-4+) or more "junior" officers (O-1 to O-3)? Are your working in a governmental capacity (i.e. congressional, DOD, etc.) or do you represent a contractor responsible for work on a military installation? I've been both a military officer working with/for civilians employed by the DOD, and a civilian manager in the private sector. My initial expectations are that these officers probably directly report to a senior officer while they perform duties within or involving your department. If that is the case, then you should be under no illusions that they consider this senior their true "Boss". They may have tasks that fall under your supervision (say, if you administer a LAN network at a base, or manage logistical operations), but their evaluations are written by the military superior. In this sense, you could do much worse than managing from the "top down"...form a good working relationship with that OIC and allow them to delegate to their staff. That makes your work...the OICs orders; a decidedly different relationship.

On the other hand, if these officers are working directly for you (which is a little difficult for me to envision, but I'm open to correction) and you either write, or advise to their evaluations, then it would be useful to understand military "culture" as it pertains to relations between officers of differing rank. For example, as an O-4, in an operational environment, I would feasibly have officers of junior grades answering to me as "department head". I would get my orders from the Executive Officer or CO (usually O-5 or O-6, but possibly a senior O-4), then relay them to the junior (Division) officer(s) who would then take these to the senior NCOs, etc...etc. An O-1 or O-2 would be unlikely to ever question these orders, and certainly not in "public"...but it is entirely feasible that they, or I, may request clarification or offer additional information (normally coming up the chain) relevant in private and with the utmost respect(which I've done countless times). In that sense, a Department Head would be unwise to take an order from the CO, directly to "quarters", in front of the enlisted, without ever allowing the Divisional chain of command to receive it beforehand...unless of course the nature of the order, or the time available to execute made it impossible to do so (which does happen). It's effectively making their role as leaders within the Chain of Command irrelevant, and has the potential to rob the senior officer giving the order of all the facts pertinent to achieving the commander's intent. Ultimately, this doesn't provide an "excuse" for insubordination, but when things are "hitting on all cylinders", every senior up the chain is issuing orders based on information flowing from both "up" and "down".

Finally, it is important to remember that officers are almost universally "Type-A" personalities who thrive under responsibility and accountability-you can use that to your advantage, or struggle in vain against it. The Military and civilian working worlds are not in any way imaginable "equal" in terms of compensation, leadership or development...I know; I've contended within both. There is a great deal to be gained in recognizing this, and rather than trying to "compete" with them...earn their respect for what you can teach that will serve them later on.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 8:27 PM

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Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 13 at 2018 8:40 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 20:40:35 -0400

The Air Force is a military Organization? Now I know why you are not picking it up. The AF tends to be the most lenient service out there, the other services tend to refer to it as the Chair Force. Their idea of hard times is no room at the Marriott, have to slum it at the Motel 6.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 13 at 2018 9:01 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 21:01:58 -0400

By sitting down with local service members. Thank you for your service.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 10:05 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 22:05:02 -0400

It appears they are just testing you. Like children they will make excuses for acting spoiled. If someone higher put you in charge of these officers then they must think you can handle it. Don’t let these poor officers disrespect your authority over them. Stand up to them and tell them if they have recommendations to voice them respectfully!

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Mar 13 at 2018 10:06 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 22:06:30 -0400

I am not into all that new age touchy feely stuff, I would "BE", "KNOW", "DO".
BE= if you are their supervisor OIC/NCOIC then be in charge. Sit them down and respectfully explain the chain of command with you as their first line supervisor.
KNOW= know your job be the best at your job if you don't know something find out how to do it. Making mistakes is part of the learning process, I would never trust anyone that hasn't made a mistake.
DO= go out there and do your job, if you screw up admit it, fix it and move on, that's leadership, take care of your team and they will take care of you.

I have had civilian supervisors before, some prior military some not while serving at an EOC on the staff. I understood that they were in charge and as long as they didn't want me to violate any regulations or talk disrespectfully towards me I did my job and made some new friends. Those that played games got very respectful and well thought out payback.

Officers and NCO's know better than to embarrass a supervisor in public. They wouldn't put up with it directed at them so they shouldn't do it to you, don't take that crap. Pull them aside and explain to them that that behavior is frowned upon and should not be repeated. I don't have all that much experiences working with Air Force Officers as most avoided smelly grunts except for those fine officer who flew MAC for our jumps :).

To distill all my BS down to simpler terms. Leadership is about knowing and doing your job even when you were not 100% sure. The leadership you display will reflect the way you are treated. If you know what you are talking about, show them that while remaining flexible enough to accept good ideas from the team . The tough nut is when to say enough this is the way we are doing it and then sticking to that. In the end the Military is not a democracy and as long as you accomplish your goal/mission and take care of your troops then that's the best you can hope for.

Response by PVT Mark Brown made Mar 13 at 2018 10:10 PM

PVT Mark Brown — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 22:10:34 -0400

Ask questions, pay attention, read blogs (Like Rally Point) and study the species. Military websites, like installation specific or MOS specific websites are good source of info.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 14 at 2018 1:28 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 13:28:05 -0400

As an Army Civilian I was required to take an "Army 101" on-line training course. It explained the history, structure, ranks, legal authorities, personnel policies, branches, corps, leadership philosophies, etc., of the Army. If the Air Force doesn't have a similar course, it should. I knew most of the information because I had served 22 years in the Air Force in jobs where I worked with the Army often.

As far as civilian vs military "rank" it's important to remember that both military and civilian employees have "grade", but only military personnel have "rank." Civilian employees garner their legal authority from their position. There is the tradition of approximate equivalency between military rank and civilian grade based on GS15 being equal to O-6. That leads some to think there is a descending order of grade and rank with GS14 equal to O-5, GS13 equal to O-4, and so on. I ran into this when dealing with a Unified Command Headquarters from a Component Command Headquarters. The Unified Command had executive level meetings populated mostly by Colonels, Captains, and GS15s, most of whom were division chiefs or deputy directors. The unified command expected their components to send equivalent grade representatives to those meetings. Our Army Component had very few Colonels or GS15s and those few were directors, e.g., G-3, G-6, etc. Our Division Chiefs were mostly GS14s. It took our Senior Civilian (SES-2) talking with the unified command's Chief of Staff to get them to understand we didn't have the manpower at the O-6/GS15 grade to meet their requirements. They would have to deal with our GS14 Division Chiefs. Things smoothed out after that.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Jun 11 at 2018 11:02 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Mon, 11 Jun 2018 23:02:59 -0400

I don't think it's intended, but Coast Guard officer culture is one of encouraging "heated" discussions. This may be a sailor way of doing things. I worked under senior merchant mariners and law enforcement officers for over 20 years. Gangster Rappers would blush with our business language. I find traditional bosses are less tolerate of debate. They want to be the alpha dog and don't understand how to control a pack of lone wolves. I believe a good boss of any cloth should listen to dissent, then make a decision. Only thing worse than indecision is making an obvious bad decision. As my ship's CO once said, "Don't tell me what you are going to do, do it, and it better be right."