How can I attend the promotion board if my CSM has a requirement I can't meet because of a medical issue?

2015-08-28T13:08:51-04:00

I have been in my primary zone for awhile now and desperately want to go to the board my COC wants to send me also but my SGT.MAJ has made pre Ranger or ranger school a requirement for promotions to E-5 in his battalion. Due to the medication that I'm on I am ineligible for ranger school and must be off my medication for one year before I would be elligable. This is making my career progression come to a grinding halt. How can I approach this without making the head shed upset or personally tanking any thoughts of promotion in the future?

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Aug 28 at 2015 1:25 PM

2015-08-28T13:25:21-04:00

We sort of had the same thing when I was at the 101st although you could still attend the board without being Air Assault Qualified (which is what I did), not having your wings just meant you got it a little harder than most. Granted, I came to the unit with the TIS and TIG to attend the board and showed my Chain of Command that I was ready for the added responsibility early on in my arrival to the unit.

Maybe one of the more senior members on RallyPoint such as CSM Michael J. Uhlig or CSM Stuart C. O'Black can shed more light on this but as far as I'm aware, you should still be able to attend if you meet all the requirements set forth by the Department of the Army.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 28 at 2015 1:35 PM

2015-08-28T13:35:01-04:00

Sounds like it is time for a open door policy request for your CSM.

Ask your 1SG to make the request and ask him to be three with you so there is no he said she said or stoppage in the discussion where the CSM needs to "talk with " or confirm with the company COC.

Be ready to answer why you feel you are ready for the promotion and how you will accomplish the leadership duties as a squad or team leader without the exaperance of the army's premier leadership school.

Response by SSG Jamil Spruill made Aug 28 at 2015 1:40 PM

2015-08-28T13:40:01-04:00

Ranger is an volunteer school, it's not an Army requirement. I understand your leaders want the best qualified NCOs but that doesn't make sense to force a soldier to participate in something not normally requirement to attain promotional status. I say this from experience with ranger leadership in the infantry and special forces command, usually if you score really high on pt and range qualifications and have all correspondence courses fully completed and SSD1 they usually can't refuse you if your leadership recommends you.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Aug 28 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-08-28T13:46:36-04:00

In my era when I was coming up the ranks, an E-4 had an Enlisted Evaluation Report EER with personal and professional counseling to back it up. A board is just a board, depending on the leadership you gotta play the game son. Meanwhile, 4187 your butt to ranger school and work on getting off the meds. You have choices here. EERs for ranks E-4 should be re-instated to include personal counseling, which was lost in the late 70s probably before your BN CSM was in the Army.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-08-28T14:40:04-04:00

Seeing as Range School is voluntary I would say take it to someone higher up and use an open door policy. I understand senior enlisted want to have NCOs with all these qualifications but if it was necessary it would be a requirement. I don't think anyone has the right to tell you that you cannot appear in front of the board because you haven't been to a volunteer school. Just talk to the right people and stay professional while doing so, you don't want to burn bridges while trying to get promoted.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Aug 28 at 2015 2:44 PM

2015-08-28T14:44:33-04:00

I will echo what SGM Erik Marquez stated, talk to your PSG and 1SG. Inquire about an open door with the BN CSM. Be ready to answer the "why" you think you are ready to be an NCO. Do you want to attend Pre-Ranger once you are medically cleared? If so, then tell him. Your NCO Support Channel is there for a reason. Utilize it.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-08-28T14:47:58-04:00

Like many here have said, request an open door policy to talk to the CSM. it's not a requirement to enroll in Ranger or any volunteer school to be promotable to unless you are in an MOS that requires it.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Aug 28 at 2015 5:04 PM

2015-08-28T17:04:15-04:00

Sit down and talk to your chain of command and let him/her know. Also if there a slot open and your command feel you are right for the leadership, they'll promote you.

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Aug 28 at 2015 7:28 PM

2015-08-28T19:28:02-04:00

I am the Senior Medic at the ARTB, there is no requirement to "be off a drug for a year", have your PCM email me at [login to see] , I will let you know if you are good to go. Its only a 61 day course, just do it and thank your CSM when you graduate.

Response by SGT Brandon Bergeron made Aug 28 at 2015 7:33 PM

2015-08-28T19:33:30-04:00

Yeah open door policy your CSM. But first run it up the chain

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 10:19 PM

2015-08-28T22:19:20-04:00

If you use the chain of command right your 1sg can speak on your behalf to try to get you in

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 9:16 AM

2015-08-29T09:16:48-04:00

For starters, your CSM can't make that a policy. It's invalid, and just short of illegal. In fact, JAG would destroy that if it was actually in a policy letter. The thought is, "Army sets the standard for what is required for promotion, not a unit CSM." So, what you have is a very valid IG complaint that needs to happen. There's some dirty pool going on.

Secondly, I highly encourage you to go to Ranger School. Like the RTB medic stated, there's no requirement you be off a certain drug for a year, you just have to possess an up to date physical. Does your medication require you to be off it a year to pass a Ranger School physical?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-08-29T10:31:12-04:00

These word of mouth policies are dangerous to soldiers. I would request an open door with them stating your intent to go as soon as you can when you are medically cleared. If he doesn't agree with them I would do as some others here have said and take it up with those above him.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 10:40 AM

2015-08-29T10:40:27-04:00

As far as I know your CSM can't do that to a soldier that meets the time requirements for a board appearance. AR 600-8-19 clearly states what the eligibility requirements are for a board appearance nothing about any specialized school selection is listed. If this continues to happen utilize your units open door policy and see the battalion commander.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 11:51 AM

2015-08-29T11:51:17-04:00

Simple as this, you file an IG complaint. That is not allowed by army regulation unless you are in a Ranger BN. It is hindering career progression!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 12:00 PM

2015-08-29T12:00:19-04:00

Talk to your CSM using the open door policy and explain to him why. He/She might have an alternative, so be prepared, also you have to be counseled that it's pre-ranger requirement in your Battalion and therelated should be a policy letter stating it. If that fails then report it to IG because it's not a requirement by Army regulations.

Response by SPC Larry Boutwell made Aug 29 at 2015 3:16 PM

2015-08-29T15:16:37-04:00

Wtf.... Setting the bar a lil high foe e5 dont you think??? I mean seriously.....might as well make the privates take wlc before they can become spc..js...oh shit i think i hear the good idea fairy......

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 9:59 PM

2015-08-29T21:59:01-04:00

Use your chain of command go to your leaders and ask them. Be polite and respectful. Remember that CSM will be the president of your promotion board so don't do anything to make him not want to promote you. Show your leadership why you should be promoted. Lead soldiers now. Go to Soldier boards if you win them you will have a lot better leg to stand on to say that you are ready to be a NCO. If that fails normal not a good idea however think about trying to PCS and show up at a new place with a fresh start that is not going to be a requirement in every BN.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2015 6:02 AM

2015-08-30T06:02:43-04:00

Let me guess.....your CSM is a Ranger! Its time to get your COC involved. Don't stop until you get a response!

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2015 4:01 PM

2015-08-30T16:01:52-04:00

He's not allowed force a training or school that not everyone can handle in order to go to the promotion board. You can got to IG to make a report about this situation.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2015 7:10 PM

2015-08-31T19:10:11-04:00

Well,
I commend your courage to reach out and ask others that may have experience. It's a slippery slope when dealing with authority figures and their policies that are perceived as not being in line with military policy.
IMO, keep it in house with your immediate chain of command before doing any kind of complaint action. Work those channels in a tactful manner (be respectful).
Ranger school is not everything but it's an accomplishment that I value in my own life.
I hope it works out for you.
You have a sweet last name!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2015 10:04 PM

2015-08-31T22:04:12-04:00

It is sad to hear so many NCOs jump to conclusions after only hearing one side of the story. It also bothers me that so many are pushing the entitlement attitude.

The Army owes us nothing. We are in a draw down and the Army is moving to "Talent Management". Only the best will continue service and certain MOS's require Ranger school to progress.

BLUF:
Talk to your COC and hold your TL, SL, and PL accountable (as honest brokers) to tell you where you stand. Also look at your MOS's career map and show that you have the potential to lead and handle added responsibility.

Speak to your CSM thru the 1SG. There is always an exception to every rule or policy.

Last look inward and ask yourself if you are ready for Sergeant Stripes and ask yourself why you want to get promoted. If it is purely from a selfish stance, read the NCO Creed.

Thank you for your service and know that the life of an NCO is one of service to Soldiers.

RLTW!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 12:16 PM

2015-09-01T12:16:32-04:00

I'm not 100% sure they can do that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 1:03 PM

2015-09-01T13:03:44-04:00

We had a similar issue here and a call to IG resolved the problem. I understand what your CSM is trying to do but unless there is an official policy or regulation that you must have attended and passed a certain voluntary school he is going about it the wrong way.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 2:16 PM

2015-09-01T14:16:52-04:00

I recommend that you use your NCO support channel and request an exception to policy. One of the duties of your NCO support channel is to be an advocate for you. Your 1SG should be the one to talk to your CSM. If you don't get the problem solved then involve your chain of command. If you still don't get it solved at that level, then inform your chain of command that you would like permission to go to the IG's office. But you must give your chain of command the opportunity to fix it at the lowest level. If you go to the IG, the first question is "did you give your chain of command the chance to fix it at their level.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 3:50 PM

2015-09-01T15:50:23-04:00

Assuming this has been in "policy" for quite some time at your unit, does this apply to only the males trying to go to the board? (Yes, I know there have been recent female graduates, but I assume this "policy" was not put in place yesterday).

Response by SFC Frederick Roquemore made Sep 1 at 2015 9:50 PM

2015-09-01T21:50:20-04:00

SPC,
First realize that you need to write it as SGM (not SGT.MAJ) -- and the word is spelled "ineligible." Now that we have those minor points out of the way, you shouldn't worry about upsetting the "head shed" or anyone else. It's your career. Ask for a formal Promotion Counseling on a DA 4856 (counseling form). If the only reason stated for why you are ineligible for the Promotion Board is that you are not qualified for Ranger School, then you can take the issue to the next higher CSM (Command Sergeant Major). You need to have the intestinal fortitude to do this, state your case and why you think you should be allowed to go to the Promotion Board, and bring the counseling with you.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 11:04 PM

2015-09-01T23:04:45-04:00

I would just be direct about it. If they have an issue, they can ask the battalion medical staff.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 11:15 PM

2015-09-01T23:15:33-04:00

Making such requirements is completely unacceptable. No unit or person is authorized to add additional requirements above what is required in the Regulation. Ref. AR 600-8-19.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 12:16 PM

2015-09-02T12:16:47-04:00

I would request use of the open door policy to talk to him. Going to IG is only going to piss him off because you didn't talk to him first, and then he'll be told he's wrong and has to send you. You'll feel the heat sitting in the board. So talk to him first and outline your pitch to him. This is your chance to be your own used car salesman.

Take your 1SG, PSG, and Squad Leader with you to help back you up. Go in there, thank him for his time to see you, and start off with the all of the fantastic things you're doing with the unit. Use specifics on how you're knocking everything out of the park. Paint that picture on why deserve to be an NCO/Sergeant (Do not say E-5. You'll get tossed right then and there).

Transition into how you understand unit pride and where he is coming from with it. It's the same thing with 101st and AASLT//82nd and Jump Wings. But the Army set the requirements to attend the board. Tell him you want to go, but bring up your concerns about attending right now, and you'll submit your packet as soon as you can (because Ranger school, regardless if you pass or fail, will make you a much better soldier almost immediately and your peers & leaders will see how you change), but it's not a requirement to go.

However he responds, do not be combative with it. Listen to what he has to say, thank him again for his time, and move on to the next step with your NCO's & 1SG's advice.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 2:07 PM

2015-09-03T14:07:28-04:00

Have you considered writing a memorandum describing how your medication and the circumstances of medical acceptance to Pre-ranger effectively close the door on promotion? That, submitted with a request for a waiver of requirement should not only get you there, but prove that you have the fighting spirit necessary to be a good leader. That being said, waivers are always easy to accept if everything else about the candidate is overwhelmingly positive. Make sure you've got everything wired tight, otherwise your attempt will most likely end in failure. Good luck!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 2:15 PM

2015-09-03T14:15:24-04:00

Before knocking on any doors, find out what waivers if any are available and how to go about getting one. (Again if available) after you have a Solution or a SOLID ANSWER to your medication issue go through the proper channels (or at least notify your chain of command) your going to request a date on the CSM Calander using the open door policy. Important not to burn bridges in the Army these days, not to mention this is the right way and respectful way of giving your Leaders the opertunity to fix a problem that they can keep in house. I hope this works.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 9:17 PM

2015-09-03T21:17:56-04:00

Without reading through all the comments, couple of questions. Have you done everything you can on your end, i.e. SSD1, volunteering (yes I know don't volunteer...) to do the hard tasks that would be challenging and outside the norm i.e. making sure your vehicle and platoons vehicles are squared away, helping your peers and lower ranked Soldiers be squared away for field problems and getting them to follow your lead when leadership is called for? Are you teaching classes and leading PRT to the standard? Do you know, I mean really know, all the AWT for skill level one and most of skill level 2-3?

This list can go on and on, but the point is, your actions and their results will get you promoted far faster than trying to work around possibly unreasonable senior ranked people.

Not saying this situation may be unfair, I don't know the whole story, but be the go to SPC on your end and your leadership will push for your promotion on their own volition.

Response by SFC Toby Northen made Sep 5 at 2015 7:44 AM

2015-09-05T07:44:29-04:00

SPC Dakoda Mckinneypotter Are you flagged? Are you BAR'd from reenlistment? The Primary Zone requirements for a Specialist are 35 months Time in Service (TIS) AND 7 months Time in Grade (TIG). You must also complete SSD1 BEFORE going to the Promotion Board and then WLC before being promoted to SGT.
I'm not accusing you or saying you don't have any of these things done. But if you don't, then these are the things that are holding you back (without even touching job performance or PT record or anything else).

Response by CSM Carl Cunningham made Sep 6 at 2015 2:45 AM

2015-09-06T02:45:37-04:00

SPC Dakoda Mckinneypotter , I see a lot of great intentions but at the same time a lot of very bad advice for you on here. First, be sure to contact CSM Michael Chavaree to have him clear up the medical concern. I am sure you have done that by now with the timing of this post, so let me leave you with this one thing. When I was younger and even an NCO, I was guilty of pointing the finger quickly at the CSM and saying "off with his head!" (figuratively of course). What I have learned as I have progressed to the rank of SGM is that a LOT of comments become lost in translation. Remember, there are a few people between you and the CSM and comments can be "altered" to where they no longer meet the intent of what was initially said. CSM's do not make policy, only commanders do. There is nothing wrong with you using an open door policy (which technically a CSM is not required to have) to discuss your concern with the CSM. However, the IG is a proper route to clear up policy issues if you cannot resolve it at the lowest level.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 12:44 PM

2015-09-08T12:44:53-04:00

shame on all the NCOs who's first resort is to make an IG complaint. I was always taught work things from the lowest level up. Have a face to face with your NCOs, and have a solution ready when you speak to the Sergeant Major. I am just wondering, what is in the primary zone for awhile, 6 years ?

Response by SSG Ian Chapman made Sep 10 at 2015 12:37 AM

2015-09-10T00:37:09-04:00

CSM first off bub, now as many of those before me have stated it is a valid IG complaint if it is in a policy letter. On a side note if you're packet were to be submitted and was kicked back with that as a statement as to why then again that is a different valid IG thing. Either way, I went to both my boards on p2's and was later medboarded, for other stuff that happened in the Stan. Medical conditions don't stop you from leading.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Sep 11 at 2015 5:46 PM

2015-09-11T17:46:41-04:00

Unless you in a unit where Ranger training is required---I would say your Sergeant Major is an asshole, who spends entirely to much time reading his own press clippings. A senior NCO has a responsibility to see to the promotion, education, training and welfare of the soldiers. Someone should remind this idiot he has a responsibility to the soldiers first ---If he wants to shine the commanders shoes that bad--- he should consider retiring and make room for a real leader.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 5:47 PM

2015-09-22T17:47:26-04:00

There are alternatives instead of prescription depends why you need medicine and as long on prescription you will be temporary profile if you are. Must consult with your primary care physician if there okay with alternative. I highly recommend this system to wounded warriors because of their injuries and PTSD as I suffered with my injuries while I was in active duty. Get off the meds and profile and free to continue with military career.

Response by SGT Nicholas Womble made May 17 at 2016 5:05 PM

2016-05-17T17:05:25-04:00

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Mar 16 at 2017 9:50 PM

2017-03-16T21:50:10-04:00

The Only Way He Can Stop You For Not Having Your Tab Is If You Are In One Of The Ranger Battalions And Not In A Support M.O.S.

Response by SGT Mark Hasch made Apr 13 at 2022 6:03 PM

2022-04-13T18:03:07-04:00

I hope all worked out for you!!!