How can I get intervention for former military member without involving local law enforcement?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:15:39 -0400

I'm worried about a former military member who is becoming withdrawn. Is it possible to have some kind of intervention without involving local law enforcement? Something like a health and welfare check. Does anyone know which social services might become involved?

Response by CPT Bruce Rodgers made Jul 6 at 2015 8:17 PM

CPT Bruce Rodgers — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:17:49 -0400

I would say contact the local VFW

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 8:37 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:37:07 -0400

there is a hot line out there now for veterans and military members needing help and someone to talk to. My agency had cards for those needing and wanting them.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Jul 6 at 2015 8:41 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:41:36 -0400

A "welfare check" will involve the police. Unless they're being outwardly abusive, social services will not put much effort into it --they're more interested in children and the elderly. Here's some ideas:

1.) Go to the local law-enforcement. Explaining the situation, appeal to speak to a fellow veteran to take the welfare check. There shouldn't be any reservations in calling the police.
2.) Stalk the vet's FB page. Find out who s/he served with --reach out to those guys.
3.) Dovetailing w/ CPT Bruce Rodgers' suggestion, there are a myriad of mental health organizations, specific to vets, with "hot lines." They may be able to suggest some avenues as well.

Prayers.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 6 at 2015 9:05 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:05:30 -0400

Does logic still drive the person's actions? Is alcohol involved ?

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jul 6 at 2015 9:33 PM

LTC John Shaw — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:33:22 -0400

Walk them into the closest VA MH clinic for an immediate appointment. If that won't work out then police to check on the soldier

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Jul 6 at 2015 9:59 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Mon, 06 Jul 2015 21:59:38 -0400

This former military member, first needs to see a psychiatrist; to make sure he's not suicidal.

Response by SSG Melvin Nulph made Jul 7 at 2015 3:09 AM

SSG Melvin Nulph — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 03:09:22 -0400

If the former member use to go to a church you may get them to help, they may have an answer? DAV, VFW or VA can also help in areas we may not know to protect the former member from any adverse reactions, asking them couldn't hurt.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 7 at 2015 11:40 AM

PO1 John Miller — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 11:40:22 -0400

I can understand why you don't want the police involved. There's all these stories on the Internet about police going to do a welfare check and end up shooting the person they're checking up on.

With that said, does the vet have family or battle buddies who can talk to him/her? Preferably fellow veterans as I can say from personal experience that I would much rather talk to a fellow vet if I was having problems.

Response by SSG Bruce Booker made Jul 7 at 2015 2:07 PM

SSG Bruce Booker — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 14:07:53 -0400

I spent 37 years in law enforcement. I dealt with a lot of similar situations, some involving veterans, others not. I spent many years as a hostage negotiator, until I started getting promotions up into the command ranks. Some of my HNT experience was with armed, barricaded criminals, but much of it was with armed and/or barricaded people who needed mental health help. One of my/our biggest fears was 'suicide by cop' situations, where someone would point a gun at officers or even shoot at officers, trying to get police to shoot them. I lived through a couple of those situations, eventually detaining the person without any shots fired by police. (My time in Vietnam seemed to help me build rapport with other veterans.)

I don't know where your friend is, but in most places there are mental health services available. Most city/county/state health departments have Mental Health Professionals (MHPs) who are well qualified to screen people for mental health issues and get them the appropriate help (the ones I worked with all had at least a Master's Degree in their field). The availability and quality of those services varies from place to place, but where I worked they were good.

We (police) generally responded in just a few circumstances.
- Someone was violent (assaultive or combative) and needed to be physically restrained (something that MHPs aren't supposed to do).
- Someone was armed and threatening to harm themselves or someone else.
- Someone was at immediate risk of harming themselves or someone else, needing immediate intervention, and it would be a while before an MHP could get there.
- Sometimes the initial report was vague and the MHPs were busy, so they would ask police to 'check it out' to get more details to see if the MHPs were needed.

We (police) have the authority to detain someone until MHPs can get there, or to detain and transport someone to a place where an MHP can meet with them. In my department (a large department in a major metropolitan area), those transports were done by ambulance, not in a police car. Those people are ill; they are not criminals.

Wherever your friend is, I suggest that you reach out to the VA, the city/county/state health department, and mental health 'hot lines' to see what services are available. Law enforcement is ready to help, but we don't have the training in that area that MHPs have, and we are just a conduit to get people to someone else who can give them the help they need.

Best of luck to you and to your friend. He/she is fortunate to have a friend like you who cares enough to help them.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Parker, DBA made Jul 7 at 2015 2:13 PM

Lt Col Timothy Parker, DBA — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 14:13:09 -0400

Try a pastor/clergy. Many have training in this sort of thing and have the clergy privilege - have the ability to keep things confidential in most instances.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 7 at 2015 4:02 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 16:02:11 -0400

Emergency room or mental health are possibilities.

Response by PO3 Steven Weingart made Jul 7 at 2015 4:37 PM

PO3 Steven Weingart — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 16:37:41 -0400

Each state has veterans employed(DVOPs & LVERs) to assist fellow veterans with just about any request. Yes, it is to provide at no cost to the veteran services that are requested by the veteran in need, medical, employment, training, housing etc. or just an empthetic ear. Veteran Service Organizations like American Legion, VFW, VVA etc all have Veteran Service officers to assist fellow vetrans in need, a hand up and sometimes a hand out. The VA is also a good source, local CBOCs (Community Based Outreach Clinics) employ veterans or veteran friendly professionals always willing to go the extra mile to enhance the life of a veteran.

Response by SSgt Darryl Glanders made Jul 7 at 2015 5:09 PM

SSgt Darryl Glanders — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 17:09:45 -0400

I am the Director of a non-profit program called Veterans' Works located in Idaho, we work with Veterans with PTSD as well as social skill issues. With that said, if this Veteran is at a point of harming himself or others there is no time to waste, you need to step in and offer assistance and be the friend you sound like you already are. Having a LEO who is also a Veteran check on him is a great idea.
I would be glad to speak with him and if he is a candidate for our program I would be happy to have him join us. Our program is free of charge to the Veteran and their family.
I can be reached at [login to see] or at [login to see]

Response by MAJ Mark Varljen made Jul 7 at 2015 5:25 PM

MAJ Mark Varljen — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 17:25:58 -0400

My first question is what can you do to help this soldier out?? You obviously know him and know about him. I would contact a number of people that are mutual acquaintances to check on him and try and get him to talk. Since it sounds as though you are still on active duty, contact your unit (or brigade chaplain) and ask for a confidential interview. If you are worried about the military part of the unit chaplain, contact your local church. If you know what religion he claims, that church would be best. I am catholic and I am sure the local priest would be more than happy to assist. There are also a number of civilian options to include wounded warrior etc. Finally contact you local Chamber of Commerce, Rotary, Masons, etc and see what types of resources they might have available. In all cases, your "friend" needs to want to get or accept the help, however, if he is becoming self destructive, you are doing more damage by trying to spare him now. If you think he could become dangerous to himself or his family, you owe it to him to take action if he will not accept your unofficial help. Can you live with your decision if you could have prevented a catastrophe and didn't? Good luck!!!!

Response by SFC Bill Graham made Jul 7 at 2015 5:46 PM

SFC Bill Graham — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 17:46:46 -0400

Call the VFW or similar veterans service agency in your county. Some do outreach.. otherwise law enforcement will do a welfare check but they're not all trained to recognize things like PTSD or other mental health issues. Don't let this soldier become one of the 22.

Response by MSgt Christine Crawford made Jul 7 at 2015 6:31 PM

MSgt Christine Crawford — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 18:31:30 -0400

VA's national hotline number is: [login to see]

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Jul 7 at 2015 7:08 PM

Maj Mike Sciales — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 19:08:12 -0400

I would not recommend calling the police. They aren't equipped or trained to help - not their fault, just not their area. I've read several accounts of Vets in crisis who were killed by the cops, some were unarmed. There are agencies, see the link below, including "live Warrior chat" where vets can get help. You can contact them, give them your concerns and have them reach out. Hope this helps.
http://www.mentalhealth.gov/get-help/veterans/

Help for Service Members and Their Families | MentalHealth.gov

Current and former service members may face different mental health issues than the general public.

Response by SSgt Daryl McClain made Jul 7 at 2015 7:26 PM

SSgt Daryl McClain — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 19:26:21 -0400

VA crisis hotline will do wonders, like any other professional they have to report if the person makes reference to hurting themselves or someone else

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2015 7:33 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 19:33:13 -0400

If the individual trusts you....you may be best off discussing your concerns with them and maybe encouraging them to seek help....one source, veterans hot lines, vfw, church....etc.

If they don't want to listen there is really nothing you can do that would not lead to legal being involved in some fashion.

If you have concerns that they are a risk to themselves or other you should take action.....better to have a friend pissed off at you than no longer around.

Good luck.....rock and hard place I know....but you know what needs to be done....you just want us to support you......which we do.

Response by 1SG Tim Gunst made Jul 7 at 2015 8:40 PM

1SG Tim Gunst — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 20:40:36 -0400

I am a law enforcement officer. Call local law enforcement and explain what's going on. Law enforcement will Baker act your friend. We are allowed to hold him up to three days unless a Dr finds he is OK and release him early. Either way he gets seen by a mental health professional. A Dr can also Baker act your friend. So you could go straight to a medical professional. You could also take him to a VA hospital to be seen. If you believe that he could hurt himself call law enforcement and explain what's going on. They will get him the help he needs. You could also talk with him and tell him you will go with him to get the help he needs.

Response by MSG Todd Black made Jul 7 at 2015 8:53 PM

MSG Todd Black — Tue, 07 Jul 2015 20:53:36 -0400

I say only go to the police as a last resort. The presence of police (unpredictable armed elements) will IMMEDIATELY escalate the situation. I can pretty much guarantee you it will end with at best an arrest - even if for "community safety reasons" - or worse, a shooting. It has happened before with mentally disturbed children getting shot and killed by police after their parents called them in to help with simple unruliness. In this day and age law enforcement are like pit bulls: you never know if they will be friendly and playful then suddenly get aggressive and bite - and the blame for the situation will ALWAYS go to the victim. Additionally, the police involvement will likely negatively impact their career, reputation, security clearance (if they have one), etc. That person will very likely resent your involving the police, feeling betrayed. Police are not psychologists - don't ask them to be.

I agree with one of the contributors - try calling the VFW and they likely have a chaplain. He/she may be able to help or point you in the right direction. Also, be very wary of involving psychologists, as many have a habit of handing the situation over to the police behind your back in order to raid the house and take away any weapons that may be present. Most psychologists, by virtue of their college affiliation, are liberal-leftist and anti-gun/anti-military. You have to do your research and find the right ones to help.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 2:40 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 02:40:20 -0400

Most mental health departments of V&As offer walk-in services/ triages. Also, Army One Source is full of resources that the member may find helpful.
Hope this helps.

Response by PO2 Jon Van Dop made Jul 8 at 2015 9:09 AM

PO2 Jon Van Dop — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:09:59 -0400

Captain - Start with your local community mental health or, if they won't do a house call, find a local pastor. If you can find a provider that is a veteran, all the better.

Response by Cpl Bruce Raftery made Jul 8 at 2015 9:17 AM

Cpl Bruce Raftery — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:17:22 -0400

Get ahold off your local Vet court and have them provide him a mentor

Response by CPL James Zielinski made Jul 8 at 2015 9:27 AM

CPL James Zielinski — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 09:27:57 -0400

You could do a personal intervention. Honestly more information would be useful. Are there kids involved? Drugs/alcohol? Is the soldier married? Is there any threat to the former military mrmber, is there any threat to the family involved. After I got out I became a doctor and I work with a lot of veterans. My first concern is the safety of the service member and their family, cops or no cops. I also understand the consequences of situations being blown out of proportion. You don't want him to end up with a criminal record. You don't want him ending up on a VA list of peope who lose their 2nd Amendment rights (which is VERY common). You don't necessarily even want VA treatment which consists mainly of drugs and SSRI's which oftentimes just make everything look nicer on the outside while the soldier continues to boil on the inside leading to inevitable worse problems down the road. We really need more info here.

Response by SSG Ronalda Frank made Jul 8 at 2015 10:35 AM

SSG Ronalda Frank — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:35:35 -0400

Contact the VA Medical in the area, tell them what you have observed, ask them to contact the person for their own safety.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Jul 8 at 2015 3:27 PM

SSgt Michael Cox — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 15:27:09 -0400

I would get in contact with the local Veterans Center they have transition counselors there that can help him/her. The good thing about the Veterans Center is they do not report any counseling sessions to the VA Medical Centers so it doesn't go into the patients file which is what most veterans with PTSD are afraid of because of laws in certain states were they may take your guns away or other things.

Response by SSgt Armen Mansouri made Jul 8 at 2015 5:30 PM

SSgt Armen Mansouri — Wed, 08 Jul 2015 17:30:52 -0400

There are multiple organizations out there that can step in.
I can refer two for you.
If this individual is suicidal, it is recommended they contact a veteran run organization called Battle in Distress.
If they need other vets in their community, just to rely on, or a battle buddy then I strongly recommend Warrior Pointe Inc. (http://www.warriorpointe.org) They create chapters across the nation where veterans can connect and help each other out.

I can honestly vouch for both organizations.

Response by SPC Leisel Luman made Jul 9 at 2015 9:34 AM

SPC Leisel Luman — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 09:34:50 -0400

"withdrawn" is not a reason to report him to the police or legal system. Cops in his home for a health and welfare inspection could be viewed as a threat and turn "withdrawn" in to a whole new level of emotional and financial "HELL". The VA, Vet Center and other veterans can help when he is ready. Sometimes I withdraw because I need time to process emotions or need time alone when overwhelmed. Maybe he has withdrawn to "check his head space and timing". Sometimes a call or txt to let them know you are thinking of them can help. Then he may be open to suggested veteran assistance programs. Don't break that trust by calling the cops to cover your arz..

Response by SSG Jerrold English made Jul 9 at 2015 10:06 AM

SSG Jerrold English — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 10:06:35 -0400

Grrr Leave me alone! I'll come out when the game is over???

Response by SSG John Erny made Jul 9 at 2015 12:02 PM

SSG John Erny — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 12:02:30 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member Do what ever it takes to get the help that person needs! The price of doing nothing or not enough is high, and a burden not easily gotten over. It can be something so simple at getting them out of the house for a day of fun. Get him involved with other veterans if he is willing.

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 11:57 PM

LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jul 2015 23:57:27 -0400

http://www.militaryonesource.mil

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 10 at 2015 8:40 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:40:46 -0400

How is this endeavor panning out?

Response by Amn Anne Hofferkamp made Jul 11 at 2015 9:16 PM

Amn Anne Hofferkamp — Sat, 11 Jul 2015 21:16:49 -0400

The veteran could end up in the psych ward or jail if not careful. In Illinois, a person can go to a psych hospital and be temporarily detained without doctor's orders. The Red Cross has Service to Armed Forces which has case workers who will do "wellness checks" via telephone. If a mental health caseworker needs to be sent to visit the veteran depending on where the veteran lives the Red Cross has mental health case workers that may be able to visit the person. [login to see]

Response by Cpl Vincent Infanti made Jul 12 at 2015 1:06 AM

Cpl Vincent Infanti — Sun, 12 Jul 2015 01:06:52 -0400

The veterans family needs to contact the closest va hospital and get in touch with the crisis people there they will confidentially help him..

Response by CPT Raymond L Pettersen SR. PHD made Jul 15 at 2015 10:34 AM

CPT Raymond L Pettersen SR. PHD — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:34:31 -0400

CPT Pettersen Here;
Being a Dr. of Psychotherapy let me field this one for you. There are many ways to get outreach for the individual. It Completely depends on what type of support you need for the individual and I can give you a more specific answer. E-mail me if you want at [login to see]

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2015 9:15 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:15:55 -0400

For any of you who may be wondering I've passed your information on to him. I heard back from one person that he had contacted them. Thank all of you for your offers of support and suggestions.

Response by CPT Erik Eriksen made Aug 27 at 2015 10:51 AM

CPT Erik Eriksen — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:51:52 -0400

I once had a situation where I was asked to provide help. I found that there were a number of former military chaplains in the area that were now civilian church leaders (pastors, priests, etc.). These people specialize in a lot of very difficult situations, they understand the military mindset, and they are out of the military so that they are not bound to report issues to the military. They are also bound, by confidentiality to not report anything to law enforcement except under certain specific conditions (when you would actually want and need to do so). They are also a non-threatening third-party arbitrator that most people listen to and accept.

Response by MAJ Michael Bressler made Aug 27 at 2015 9:43 PM

MAJ Michael Bressler — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:43:01 -0400

This sounds like the start of classical clinical depression and can be corrected as a chemical imbalance in the body... no big deal, see a good doctor. He will know what to do. With the right medicine you will see a profound difference in about two weeks! BUT SEE A DOCTOR, PREFERABLY AN INTERNEST...

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 28 at 2015 1:04 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 13:04:23 -0400

Does he have a wife and children?