How can I recover from a field grade article 15 when I'm facing my RCP date?

SPC Bradford Bolden — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 07:41:35 -0500

Hello to everyone, I was giving a fg art 15 under art 134 from my understanding is basically a general we feel you did somethings wrong we are going to punish you type of art. But I was demoted for a NCO to a SPC and put on 6 months "probation"?as well as extra duty for 45 days. My issues is that why didn't the chap me because I'm going to hit rcp in 8 months with my demotion. I don't want to get out, yes I made a mistake. But I don't want to get out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Response by SSG Clarence Blackburn made Jan 22 at 2016 7:53 AM

SSG Clarence Blackburn — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 07:53:46 -0500

Do some research not sure if you can get RCP if you were demoted due to Artical 15, also talk to JAG about this.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made Jan 22 at 2016 7:57 AM

SFC A.M. Drake — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 07:57:40 -0500

SPC Bolden,

Thank you for your ownership of the situation. I would ensure that whatever discharge you get ensure that is it honorable or honorable conditions. Depending on your discharge and I have seen this happen in the past. You may be able to apply to the NG and continue serving. Article 134 is the catch all discharge I am surprised that you did not request court martial. Unless they had a lot of stuff on you like counselings, verbals, etc etc. Your rights were to seek counsel, What was the outcome of that visit?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2016 7:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 07:59:21 -0500

I don't think I understand what your question is. Are you saying you would have rather been chaptered? I'm sure you could make that happen with some work.
With your new RCP you will be eligible for the Reserves as well as separation pay. If your ETS was after your new RCP, your ETS will be adjusted to your new RCP soon.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2016 8:40 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 08:40:26 -0500

Did you type this question from your phone?

Response by SSG John Caples made Jan 22 at 2016 9:26 AM

SSG John Caples — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 09:26:49 -0500

You may need to follow all the guidelines they want you to follow and be on time for your extra duty , in form your chain that you messed up and let them know you do not want to get out and if they let you get your stripes back that they can depend on you again as a Nco.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2016 9:51 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 09:51:51 -0500

SPC Bradford Bolden as SFC Private RallyPoint Member said, you'll be eligible for Reserves. We had a Soldier here with the same situation, he went on Reserve and had a pretty good deal, with bonus and everything. I think he signed for 3 years and a $30K bonus plus separation pay, which is not bad at all.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jan 22 at 2016 10:01 AM

SGM Matthew Quick — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 10:01:03 -0500

You're probably not going to be able to overcome this for active duty as the time requirement for board appearance as of the 1st day of the board month to SGT in the primary zone.

Recommend enrollment in SFL-TAP now, see your Reserve Component (RC) Career Counselor for RC eligibility and continue to live your life by the Army Values. When the Army begins in troop increase, get with your local Army Recruiter for prior-service enlistment.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Jan 22 at 2016 10:08 AM

SGM Matthew Quick — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 10:08:04 -0500

Not chaptering you actually helped you (hope you thanked your Leaders)...you'll be eligible for separation pay and may be eligible for transition to the reserve component.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2016 10:58 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 10:58:51 -0500

If you have an effective date of demotion prior to the 1st of the eighth month PRIOR to hitting RCP, you may have a narrow window to board in the primary zone before hitting RCP. AR 600-8-19 Table 3-2 and 3-3 leaves a little wiggle room. Undoubtedly your commander was aware of this. You will have to go very far out of your way to be a model Soldier in order to pull this off, but you might be able to salvage your Army career.
Failing that, I would encourage you to start planning your transition. You have been granted 8 extra months with pay and access to Army resources to help you with this process.
Believe it or not, they did you a big favor. They could have emplaced a Bar to Reenlistment or initiated a separation process, but did not.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jan 22 at 2016 11:34 AM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 11:34:54 -0500

Do your best and let be a chip on your shoulder to work your ass off. Whether it motivates you for military life or civilian life how you react to it will define you not the incident itself.

If you do RCP you can draw involuntary separation pay at 100% if you go reserve, guard or IRR. Don't make additional mistakes to be chaptered otherwise based on how the dd214 is coded you will not be able to get full separation pay.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jan 22 at 2016 11:57 AM

LTC Stephen F. — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 11:57:05 -0500

It can be very challenging to recover from a field grade Article 15 SPC Bradford Bolden. The best advice I can give is to do the best job you can in each assignment from now on. FYI I eventually recovered from a General Grade Article 15. That took over a decade but I was able to serve my country much longer than I expected.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 22 at 2016 12:24 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 12:24:53 -0500

Ask the S1 if it was filed locally of officially. Locally means you have a better chance of staying in.

Response by 1LT Ryan Millican made Jan 22 at 2016 2:47 PM

1LT Ryan Millican — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 14:47:11 -0500

Article 134 is an extremely broad Article under the UCMJ, and has several sub-articles. I was a Paralegal before I commissioned and I dealt with a lot of Article 15s and Courts Matial. The fact that your BC gave you a suspended sentence says something. Unfortunately since you were an NCO this will more than likely go into you "Permant File" and pretty much follow you around for the rest of your career, but it's not as bad as a Court Martial. You can always recover from these things, I've seen it happen before just for the rest of your time keep your nose clean and keep pushing until the suspended sentence is up then your BC will have the option to forgive the part he suspended.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 23 at 2016 12:46 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 00:46:42 -0500

SPC Bradford Bolden I don't follow your text... easily, but in answer to your actual question, I would say it is not likely you can recover from a FG ART 15 in the time allotted. But, I would always defer to smarter folks than I, like 1SG Private RallyPoint Member or SGM Matthew Quick . They both provide exquisite insight, advice, and perspective.

Response by CPL Harold Shepard made Jan 23 at 2016 1:51 AM

CPL Harold Shepard — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 01:51:06 -0500

It is time for you to get out I chaptered out many years ago. I can now retire from the Postal Service. You will have a much better life and make more money. One catch is you have to apply before you get out. I got all of my military time and can now get full federal retirement Say good by to the butt holes and move on with you life. Do not be afraid

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Jan 23 at 2016 9:14 AM

SPC Nathan Freeman — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 09:14:10 -0500

You might start thinking about civilian life.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Jan 23 at 2016 1:44 PM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:44:16 -0500

Hey brother, keep your head up. They are still looking at you, even knowing you have 8 months before you hit your RCP. You are on 6 month probation, check your attitude and behavior and show them that you want to stay in, as you will have a small window. Maybe it will work out for you. Sounds like they were pretty generous anyway...you got a Field Grade under a 134. You don't normally get a field grade for some minor step on your d#ck type stuff. They can't give you a Field Grade AND chapter you at the same time. Like I said, Commanders have a lot of power, so you do a 180 and you might just salvage your career. Good luck and stay strong!

Response by SSgt Robert Jorgensen made Jan 23 at 2016 2:14 PM

SSgt Robert Jorgensen — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 14:14:04 -0500

Sounds to me like you screwed the pooch big time and with the draw-down your an easy one to get rid of. Hate having to be so blunt but there are consequence for your actions or lack of.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2016 11:11 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 23:11:42 -0500

SPC Bradford Bolden Thoses benefits are extremely important.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2016 12:50 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 00:50:47 -0500

Switch to the Reserves and work as a civilian truck driver. You will make more money and still get to serve.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2016 11:03 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:03:37 -0500

I have read many of the responses to your question. In the short term, our forces are downsizing. You can't do anything about that. Given the situation, you may find yourself separated. Until then keep your performance outstanding. If you are separated, go to the Guard and Reserve.

My thoughts are that shortly, the need for a larger force will be needed. You may be able to reenlist then, possibly with a waiver.

There are a few "ifs" here an no guarantee. But, it is possible. In the meantime, keep doing things to demonstrate excellence and make yourself better....everyday.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Jan 24 at 2016 12:50 PM

Capt Walter Miller — Sun, 24 Jan 2016 12:50:04 -0500

Why didn't you refuse the Article 15?

Response by SP6 Regg Hanna made Jan 25 at 2016 12:39 PM

SP6 Regg Hanna — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 12:39:12 -0500

Have you talked to the Chaplain? If you have really reformed and became a model soldier, they can also help you out somewhat.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jan 26 at 2016 3:47 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 03:47:46 -0500

My opinion has always been that if you didn't do it, demand the court martial. When you accepted the Article 15, you basically said, I plead no contest. You wrote your own discharge warrant.

I was once threatened with an Article 15 for something I was not guilty. I refused it and demanded the court marital. They knew they could not win and reduced it to a letter of counseling which was subsequently refused for the same reason. It went away but not without a lot of harassment and a letter from JAG.

Point: Know your rights. If you don't know your rights, see a lawyer. Stand your ground if you are in the right and let your lawyer speak for you.

(Note: I am not a lawyer)

Response by CPL Jay Strickland made Jan 26 at 2016 7:01 PM

CPL Jay Strickland — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:01:36 -0500

It is doable but very hard. You have two avenues of attack A. get promoted in 8 months ( which might not be possible) or B. get an exception to policy from the Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel ( currently LTG McConville). The request will need to be immaculately written if you have an NCO with a masters in English get his assistance. You will need someone of high position to advocate for you. If you are on a large post the post commander might be sufficient to do so and the easiest way to get an advocate at that level is to win the corresponding board. Ask to go to boards now do not wait until your extra duty is over. Lastly even if you do everything perfectly you still might not get the exception.

Response by SPC Stephen Gerard made Jan 26 at 2016 11:12 PM

SPC Stephen Gerard — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 23:12:06 -0500

Been there personally. I got through it by working closely with my company commander and 1SG, who both seemed to like me. They went to bat for me, but I really sweated hard in the process. If you can get your immediate chain of command on your side, sometimes mountains can be moved. Not all of us make the best decisions, but if you can make the case - with your actions - that it was an issue that is passed, you have a better chance of remaining where you're at, beyond the RCP date. Trust me, I've been there.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 2:01 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 02:01:33 -0500

No, must have done something wrong, very wrong to be demoted from an NCO. It seems clear you still haven't accepted responsibility for that, based on your opening statement. You need to start planning for the future outside the Army. Making it back to SGT is going to be tough if not near impossible. Did the BC suspend any of your sentence? You must remained flagged while that suspension remains. If he suspended a portion of your sentence, say, pay for 180 days, you'll be flagged that entire time and won't have enough time to be promoted once that flag is lifted. Start you SFL now and take it seriously, lots of companies are looking to hire vets.

Response by MSG Richard Medina made Feb 13 at 2016 4:35 PM

MSG Richard Medina — Sat, 13 Feb 2016 16:35:49 -0500

If after the 8 months and you are in transition, suppose you come out with an honorable discharge. You will be eligible for the national guard or army reserve. Not a bad situation to be in, you can still salvage your military career.

Response by SPC Bobbie Betz made Feb 14 at 2016 12:26 AM

SPC Bobbie Betz — Sun, 14 Feb 2016 00:26:18 -0500

Then what your issue? Re-up. You were given a 6 month rip to E4 for doing something dumb. La-ti-da. You owned up to it. In a few more months your eligible for your 5's. As long as you passed your pt and did not fail a drug test you are ok to stay in.,

Response by SPC Wade Griffiths made Feb 24 at 2016 6:01 AM

SPC Wade Griffiths — Wed, 24 Feb 2016 06:01:32 -0500

I would say go to JAG, and if you feel this unit is giving you the run around, see if IG can do anything to help.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 11:01 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 23:01:59 -0400

i cant ask a question thought i piggy back on this disccusion...
if demoted and ets is adjusted accordingly to rcp
will ets be readjust to contracted date if promoted?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2018 6:27 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Aug 2018 18:27:43 -0400

That 1SG sounds like he's probably the best source of info you're likely to get, but forgive me for asking, but do YOU agree the Article 15 was JUST? Looking at AR27-10, there's several options available, in the event you were railroaded. (The reason I ask, is because I know I was charged with AWOL, when my command was literally not going to ALLOW me to perform my duty, which violated multiple ARs. They also charged me with Failing to Follow Orders (FFO) when the order I failed to follow, was "unlawful". Long story short, I requested trial by courts martial, my Trial Defense Service rep, completely failed, and directed me to voluntarily go back to the Article 15 process, where I was railroaded, and am now an E6, when I had just accepted an offer of promotion to E8. THAT turned into my request for "set aside" IAW AR27-10 para 3-28. SO.. since this is OLD news, I'm going to guess this may not help you, but MAYBE it can help the next SM faced with this and researching answers.)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2018 11:47 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:47:32 -0400

SGM Quick is correct, they did you a favor. Even if for some reason you get chaptered out for RCP, you can still come back in after a certain period, either in the Reserves or possibly active duty if you receive an R-1 on your DD214. (As long as they don't put a bar to reenlistment on you- you should be OK)

If you go into the National Guard or Reserves, you may be able to be promoted right away (or within 6mo. or so for an E5) and then apply to go back on Active Duty.

Response by SGT John Allen made Jan 25 at 2019 9:54 AM

SGT John Allen — Fri, 25 Jan 2019 09:54:25 -0500

I didn’t want to get out either. Go sign a National Guard contract and make sure you get a bonus. Do it before you get your clearing papers. Get out, take the RCP money. They can’t break your NG contract. Drop your promotion packet in the guard one month after your fist drill. Apply for full time position. Check the FMS shops. You’ll end up deploying in the guard most likely. You don’t really get out, you just change where your paycheck comes from. Enjoy.

Response by SPC Reggie Graystone made Jan 27 at 2019 11:10 AM

SPC Reggie Graystone — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 11:10:34 -0500

Same thing happened to me in Korea March 2017. It’s not the end of the world, Trust me. I was a Sergeant promotable waiting to go ALC after I would have PCSed with two weeks left. Got into a situation where I got hit with an article 15 too. All I needed was ALC to get promoted being that I had 780 points and my 91B was around 650 or so at the time. But one laps in judgment caused me to lose my ALC slot, my promotion status, and my rank which put me in RCP status. Mind you, I never was I. That situation. Just move forward onto better things. I tried to go back to the board after my six months but wasn’t willing or ready to kiss ass for it. Never did it and wasn’t ready to be one of those people. If anything, request a court martial and take your chances. If I could do it again, I would have chosen court martial instead of non UCMJ action.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2019 7:14 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:14:06 -0500

First, you don't need to guess that you did something wrong, you did. Don't partially own it, or you stand no chance of recovering enough to remain on AD, if time permits.
Be at the right place, at the right time, in the correct uniform, and ready to work/train. Even if you don't have time to go back to the board and get promoted, don't do anything that could result in a chapter and your character of service becoming one that excludes you from receiving VA benefits.
Plan for the worst case scenario, which, based on your post, is separation in 8 months.
Research education/vocational opportunities wherever you plan on living. VA has a webpage with a search function for approved vocational training--use it. Find one that permits you to work and go to school.
Save money to sustain you while you wait on any GI Bill benefits to kick in; security deposit; rent; utilities; etc.
Finally, once you own whatever you did that put you in this position, don't beat yourself up over this for too long. Whenever I had a Soldier come in for counseling or reading of an Article 15, I would tell them they had to fu@! up alot more to catch up to me. Everyone messes up; it's what you so afterwards that determines your character.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2020 10:50 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:50:42 -0500

Hey man I have a field grade and demoted too with the article 134 but I haven’t done anything including with lack of evidence which I went to TDS. It doesn’t meet the criteria which legal says. I’m still waiting on my appeal and it’s been almost a month and my ERB still says E5. I’m trying to figure that out is what going on. What people saying is true then go there reserve or ng. Luckily for both of us we not getting chapter out. My question is to y’all leaders or veterans is if Trial Defense Service say the evidence doesn’t meet the criteria of AR 600-20 what they giving me, should the commander go by the law?