How can I wear my rank without being harassed?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 14:05:01 -0400

I'm a SPC; well, my SRB says I am. The issues came to a SGT in my platoon who told me he had denied my advancement to SPC. he also said There was a computer error. I wasn't supposed to be SPC. also had me come back after lunch wearing PFC. I've asked for my counseling, stating I've been denied my advancement I've been told that I've been verbally counseled and to stop being a pain in the ass to my leadership. AR 600-8-19 mentioned nothing about verbal counseling, I talked to my 1SG and he was for having me promoted to SPC, I am clueless about what to do at this point.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2022 3:05 PM

SP5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 15:05:58 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Use your chain of command to get the issue clarified.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2022 3:09 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 15:09:35 -0400

This is wrong on many levels. It looks like you haven't been counseled monthly. Your commander can deny your advancement to SPC but if they did that you wouldn't have not been promoted. I would ask to speak to the 1SG. He should be able to navigate this. If the Army says you are a SPC and you are getting paid as a SPC then you are a SPC. Usually, you pin on a rank when your leadership pins you but it is not required. There is a chance that you were denied advancement but if you were then they should have counseled you.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2022 3:24 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 15:24:26 -0400

Yea, your NCO can't stop it. Can recommend to stop, but that's it. Your Commander is the one that signs the 4187 to advance you to SPC. Your NCO is a dickbag. Have an Open Door with your 1SG and Commander and ask for a copy of the 4187 with Commanders approval with signature. If your NCO still has a problem with it, they can take it up with them.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 20 at 2022 3:33 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 15:33:21 -0400

I would suggest that you see the Company zCommander under the open door policy.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 20 at 2022 3:35 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 15:35:06 -0400

Also what do consider as harrassment?

Response by SPC Thomas Bourland made Aug 20 at 2022 5:34 PM

SPC Thomas Bourland — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 17:34:41 -0400

At the end of the day the only thing that holds any weight is a paper trail as more learned individuals have suggested.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2022 5:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 17:52:28 -0400

Your NCO doesn't approve or deny advancement. They give their opinion. The company commander approves advancement to SPC. A CO may take into consideration the suggestions of the soldier's leadership or the 1SG. But they don't have to. It sounds like the CO approved your advancement so you should tell the 1SG you would like to have a discussion with him/her , yourself and your NCO to clear it all up.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Aug 20 at 2022 6:24 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 18:24:22 -0400

Many others have given you the textbook. Your NCO can't stop your promotion. And yes, you should absolutely go through your CoC to talk to 1SG/Commander.

But.....

If you are getting paid, there is almost no difference whether you have PFC or SPC on your chest. Does the issue need to be cleared up? Yes. Is it worth pissing off your SGT who can make your life miserable in so many other little ways? Nope. Not at all. It appears your SGT is not above being a dick for no apparent reason. How much worse will he be when you give him a "reason?"

So, yes, get it cleared up. But don't push it. Make sure it isn't *you* telling that SGT to pound sand, it is 1SG/Commander. And make sure that you don't rub it in after.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2022 7:34 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 19:34:12 -0400

Throw some fuel to the fire and get a new CAC ID. with SPC on it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2022 4:33 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Aug 2022 16:33:03 -0400

As CPT Private RallyPoint Member and MSG Private RallyPoint Member mentioned, wrong on a lot of levels.

In legal LPD's that I give to Officers and NCO's, verbal counselings are just on the spot guidance and expectations. Without anything written there is no proof, no documentation, nothing to follow up on. I can't even initiate an NJP with a verbal counseling because it means absolutely nothing to me or my JA's. Verbals are good to get to talk with your troops, and even give a verbal admonishment if it's warranted but not for anything admin related and your promotion is on a 4187.

Only your commander can deny your advancement to SPC, your NCO chain can recommend to the commander through the 1SG that you be denied but that is also done in writing because the 1SG and CO want to see why and see what's being done to fix any issues the Soldier has such as counseling and retraining. They want to see a plan of action.

SFC Casey O'Mally makes a valid point, not so much that I agree that you shouldn't make waves against a bad NCO but it's all about how you make those waves. Let Top and the CSM destroy a bad stripe wearer, you're just there to be professional and report accurately. Use a bad NCO's actions as a learning lesson for who you want to be as a leader when it's your turn, because you want to be the guy that takes care of your troops not plays idiotic games with them.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Aug 22 at 2022 2:36 PM

CSM William Everroad — Mon, 22 Aug 2022 14:36:01 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member, I concur with MSG Private RallyPoint Member, your SGT is a d-bag. Others have stated to go talk to the 1SG, which sounds like he is on board, but he needs to get a promotion ceremony together to get everyone to shut up about it. If he doesn't, go talk to the CDR. At the end of the day, according to the Army, you are a SPC and getting paid for it. The rest of your career you will have d-bag people telling you that you are wrong when you aren't, be the professional Soldier and just do your job.

Follow-up question: where is your Team Leader, and Squad Leader, and Platoon Sergeant in all this? They should all be your biggest advocates.

An aside, I do have to ask: Did you just log on to your SRB and say, "Hey I am a SPC now! I know I have seen countless promotion ceremonies since I joined the Army, but I think I will just pin myself today."?

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 23 at 2022 9:13 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Tue, 23 Aug 2022 09:13:50 -0400

Your NCO is entitled to their opinion but that doesn't make that opinion law.

What does S1 say? Do they have you down as a Spc?
Are you getting paid as a Spc?
Does the 1st Sgt concur that you are a Spc?

If you answered yes to all of the above then I believe you may very well be a Spc regardless of your NCO's opinion. If you need assistance speak to S1 or your 1st Sgt and they will set the record straight. You have June 2022 as your promotion date. I hope that's incorrect because it would be a shame that you had to sit and wonder for 3 months with your NCO bagging on you. Good luck.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Aug 24 at 2022 3:36 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Wed, 24 Aug 2022 15:36:05 -0400

1SG said what? If he recommended promotion it should be a done deal. However, don't take it upon yourself to pin on a new rank insignia. That should be done by a commissioned officer and you should be given a copy of the promotion warrant.
Until that happens, you are a PFC.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 23 at 2022 8:48 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Sep 2022 08:48:04 -0400

So, it's been a month. What's the update?

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Sep 24 at 2022 8:32 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 24 Sep 2022 08:32:38 -0400

While I concur throughout, I will say that there is a Squad leader, platoon Sergeant and Platoon leader between you and the CO/1SG. They should have the immediate answer, if not request an open door with the Company leadership, this does not require a quorum, it only requires the COs decision and corrective training amongst the Company personnel who allowed this to happen.

Response by SPC Rodger Bell made Oct 13 at 2022 7:57 AM

SPC Rodger Bell — Thu, 13 Oct 2022 07:57:11 -0400

Wear your shit I would take Sgt to the the carpet

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2022 12:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 12:25:39 -0400

The only way your SRB can show SPC, is if there is an order for it. Therefore it is an authorized promotion. Your NCO can indicate a disapproval, but it can be overriden by an approval from higher ranking.
Ask for a copy of the order (should be in your e-records). Once in hand, wear your rank with pride and keep the order in your pocket to show your NCO.
Congratulations!

Response by SPC Finley Looney-Pilgrim made Oct 25 at 2022 5:18 PM

SPC Finley Looney-Pilgrim — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 17:18:42 -0400

What does your LES say, go to S1 and ask for a copy of your orders, keep it in your pocket. Get ID card changed.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Oct 25 at 2022 7:31 PM

MGySgt Rick Tyrrell — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 19:31:20 -0400

If your record book says your an SPC then the proof is on the Sgt he does not have the authority to demote or promote for that matter. Where SPC until you Plt Commander says otherwise

Response by SPC Sam Williamson made Oct 27 at 2022 3:37 AM

SPC Sam Williamson — Thu, 27 Oct 2022 03:37:48 -0400

First off, in response to your question, my answer is "Damn, I'm glad I'm no longer under the Army's thumb. But seriously, yeah man, it's the CO's call. The guy giving you a hard time is what, a buck? E-5? Were you having trouble with the noncom before the promotion issue?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2022 3:50 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 15:50:19 -0500

Has this happened to others in ur platoon? Things went smoothly for me so I was under the impression that if u kept ur nose clean that promotion to Sp4 was automatic and u had to start testing to move up beyond that and have some classes.
I would follow the paper trail and write down everything that people tell u. Like that missing paperwork that u have been counceled. And get into the regs. Cause one of two things is going on. Someone made a mistake or ur on someones Sh** list and they need to be found out and removed.

I had a SSgt that didn't like me for some reason but everyone else did. I had been sent to boards and flown to training that was for people three ranks higher than I was at the time. And I was in charge of cleaning details that for some reason the Sgts that were supposed to be doing refused to do. So I drew up questions and went and asked people I worked with since he was someone I reported to and asked if they thought this person was doing that complaint to them and if they said yes I asked If I could put their name next to that and what I was going to do which was take it up my work chain of command. This is Risky. But me I was a decent athlete back in the day and didn't stand for crap like this and while I do not like to do it if u keep pushing I will push back. I did not run this through the company since I worked under DIO and ran that chain of command. The Higher level Sgt there looked at it and said do not do anything yet okay. We will look into it. Couple weeks later they called me back in and he said please do not do anything and End two careers. So I had something on the guy. He was moved to a different post three hundred miles away to finish his tour and I was happy and so were the rest of them cause the guy was gone and we got to do our jobs the way we were supposed to do them.
Again if u really push this u might come out okay like I did or it might come to bite u. So its up to u. I know what I would do but that was because u get me pushed to the point to act I just do not care what happens and will fight tooth and nail all of the way.

But at least check out the regs on each area covered under whats going on so u know u have the base info right. And in the regs take it EXACTLY like it is written. Words like Can take into concideration dose not mean they will but its an option. Have things changed for moving up in rank since I was in, possibly. And once u have gathered everything decide if u are going to drop it or move with it and then get with someone that out ranks u that u can trust and talk with them.

Response by SGT Richard Hanson SSP/CGS made Nov 20 at 2022 11:01 PM

SGT Richard Hanson SSP/CGS — Sun, 20 Nov 2022 23:01:34 -0500

You have Congressmen and Senators, use them. That's what they are there for.

Response by SP5 Donna Barr made Nov 21 at 2022 11:25 AM

SP5 Donna Barr — Mon, 21 Nov 2022 11:25:57 -0500

What's your paycheck say? Wave that in his face.

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Nov 21 at 2022 1:41 PM

SSgt W. Aaron Gregory — Mon, 21 Nov 2022 13:41:26 -0500

Last time I checked, unless there is some documented reason you cannot be promoted, promotion warrants come from officers. Officers *extremely rarely* smack down promotions, if ever. I'd pay a visit to the first sergeant who is more than capable of making issues like this go away.

Response by SPC Brian Bay made Dec 9 at 2022 12:46 AM

SPC Brian Bay — Fri, 09 Dec 2022 00:46:04 -0500

Go talk to CSM under the open door policy, but first, check with S1 to see what those records say. With CSM, be sure to state that you're not trying to get the SGT in trouble, just that you want the harassment to stop. That way you have a leg to stand on if you need to take things to higher echelons, to include a formal IG complaint. I'd also entertain a 4187 requesting a transfer out of your SGT's direct supervision.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Dec 28 at 2023 7:08 PM

TSgt David Olson — Thu, 28 Dec 2023 19:08:37 -0500

I had just arrived at my new unit from the repo depot. I had my 201 file when I reported to the CO. He glanced at it, asked how long I’d been in grade, PFC. I told him five months. He looked at me and said I was now an E-4, Spc 4. I heard later that was the reason the 1st sergeant did not like me, he wasn’t consulted. Fortunately, after ten days, the Opts sergeant sent me to the Pleiku detachment, to get me away from 1st shirt. I was also made acting corporal before I left for the highlands. This August 1964.