How can we get a federal concealed carry for our service members and veterans?

2015-12-19T17:20:59-05:00

http://www.channel3000.com/news/police-respond-to-report-of-shots-fired-at-east-towne-mall/37047430

Once again the liberal left leaves us vulnerable and another shooting occurred. Here at the mall where my family has been shopping we had a shooting just one hour ago 15:00 19DEC15.

The letter of the law states that no weapons are allowed inside the mall. This means I had to take my weapon off my hip each time and leave it in the car. It defeats the purpose! Today, yet again, it defeated the purpose. So do these cowardly civilians believe signs are going to reach out and keep people safe? Maybe the fat mall renta-cops that couldn't get into the military or the police academy will do better than the signs. Again, no. Criminals don't give a crap about the damn signs other than knowing they can go into these "gun-free" zones and open season like the railroad days and the buffalo massacres.

We need to be able to put a stop to this. Maybe normal civilians should have some reasonable restrictions. However, I know that I was not the only service member around out of the thousands of people out there shopping for the holiday. I also know that we deserve a different standard, because we are not the same as civilians, even after ETS. It's a hard pill to swallow since everyone these days gets a participation trophy, but it's a fact.

So how do we get legislation passed to get a federal concealed carry for soldiers and veterans? I suggest we both go through specialized training and get certification before we do. Perhaps the certification should allow for us to be trained and certified as reserve deputy LEOs. We've been called out in places like Baltimore and Ferguson anyway.

One thing I know is that my weapon will not come off my hip unless I am at a courthouse, or an airport. My life and the life of my family come first, before any law of lesser power than the constitution. So should yours.

Police respond to report of shots fired at East Towne Mall

Police are responding to a report of shots fired at a Madison mall Saturday afternoon.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Dec 19 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-12-19T17:50:05-05:00

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Dec 19 at 2015 6:06 PM

2015-12-19T18:06:12-05:00

Capt Richard I P.'s post is timeless on this issue: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/arm-the-armed-forces

Arm the Armed Forces! | RallyPoint

The outcome of the discussion "Concealed carry for CAC holders?" by [~222148:SGT Bernard Boyer III]. Below follows my skeleton letter to congress, based on the edits RP members have suggested to the 10 points. Anyone and everyone is welcome to edit and personalize the letter for their own use in writing to their congressional representatives. We sent a mass email on 3 January, the swearing in of the new congress, now it's a free for all. You...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2015 6:09 PM

2015-12-19T18:09:59-05:00

Bro, don't even waste your time trying to get CC authorized until January 2017. And that only if a Democrat doesn't take office.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Dec 19 at 2015 8:01 PM

2015-12-19T20:01:14-05:00

The closest thing to this that will ever happen is LEOSA. Which is for current (after 6 years) and retired LEOs (military included).

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Dec 19 at 2015 9:42 PM

2015-12-19T21:42:40-05:00

Do you see a need for any additional training or licensing requirements or would a DD214 or CAC be enough? My issue with a blanket CCW permit is that only a minority of military actually get training on a pistol. I work with a Captain who has served 18 years (prior enlisted) and never fired a pistol. So I don't equate military service with small arms proficiency. I would hope that people who do carry take the time to train on their own weapon(s) but I would not feel that comfortable with just giving every SM or veteran a CCW based on service.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Dec 19 at 2015 9:48 PM

2015-12-19T21:48:13-05:00

I honestly don't think that will ever happen. The Federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act was passed some years ago. Most Agencies don't know that it exists. The part that chapped my drawers was where it includes those who supervise inmates are considered law enforcement. The state of Virginia does not consider Corrections Officers to be law enforcement. After 7 years in the Marines, and 24 in corrections, if I want to carry concealed in Virginia, I have to have a concealed carry permit, and be aware of the laws of whatever state I am traveling through.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Dec 19 at 2015 9:53 PM

2015-12-19T21:53:02-05:00

Or we could go with Freedom. As an American, I prefer Freedom as the default answer to questions of politics. If we were to truly implement Freedom in this matter, we would have Constitutional Carry across the Republic.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Dec 20 at 2015 12:36 AM

2015-12-20T00:36:47-05:00

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member - While I agree with your intent of a Federally issued CC, I disagree with your proposed implementation on two levels:
1.) While the military is charged with executing the political will of the people, we are not law enforcement.
2.) The last thing I want is [any more] federal "oversight" to programs that are currently being handled on the local level.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Dec 20 at 2015 5:56 AM

2015-12-20T05:56:26-05:00

To answer the question, make it part of defense spending bills. No one wants to look bad in the eyes of the military.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Dec 20 at 2015 8:21 AM

2015-12-20T08:21:39-05:00

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member A modification of HR 218 (the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act) seems the quickest path. Military Police, Air Force OSI Agents, Army CID Special Agents, and NCIS Special Agents are covered under LEOSA and this would be a relatively minor change as compared to creating new law.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 20 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-12-20T13:19:20-05:00

Elect better people to Congress and the White House

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Dec 20 at 2015 7:47 PM

2015-12-20T19:47:07-05:00

That I should be Judged by 12 instead of Carried by 6....... get my drift?

Response by LTJG Joe Nichols made Dec 22 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-12-22T11:09:49-05:00

Valid argument.

Response by CPT John M. O'Connor made Dec 22 at 2015 6:18 PM

2015-12-22T18:18:52-05:00

This will be a very interesting question and debate. I am just following it now. No strong idea of how this can be done in the right way.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Dec 23 at 2015 7:42 AM

2015-12-23T07:42:44-05:00

The answer to this question is NOT another law, but rather the repeal of existing State laws and Federal regulations that "infringe" on our right to "keep and bear arms".

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2015 8:20 AM

2015-12-23T08:20:47-05:00

For defense of those Fat Renta Cops, many of them are actually former or weekend warriors.

Response by CPO Ronald Ross made Dec 23 at 2015 8:49 AM

2015-12-23T08:49:28-05:00

CPL, I back you 100% my brother in your feelings and ideas. My Concealed weapon is just that, concealed. A sign on the door of a coffee shop, mall or any other liberal-rule-posted establishment doesn't mean leave behind my earned/lawful community protection. If I'm in line at Starbucks(which is very rare) and some crazed nut starts firing, I pray my Aim is good that day before he gets off to many rounds.

CHIEF

Response by A1C Paul Cowan made Dec 23 at 2015 8:50 AM

2015-12-23T08:50:54-05:00

Once again, it seems that our Corporal here seems to think that the left is taking away your chance to carry or even own a gun. Can we PLEASE grow up and stop behaving like children here? Why is it that you always seem to BLAME the left for taking away gun rights and the like. HOWEVER, let us take a look at a couple of facts that seem to have escaped the "Conservative" service members attention.
1. In the state of Texas, where the state has now told everyone that you can even carry concealed on campuses across the state, EVERY single NON STATE University has bucked AGAINST that rule, because of, umm... SAFETY!
2. You seem to think that the POLICE have nothing better to do than to answer calls about people carrying guns. Not to say that I have this completely correct but it has happened in several states and counties where concealed carry or even open carry is the PRIVILEDGE and they get calls because people, GOOD people, are afraid of people carrying guns.
3. While you may be a member of the military, you do not, sorry to have to tell you, above the law of the land, no matter who or what you are. You are accorded the same rights and priviledges as any citizen. Just because you are a member, active, reserve, discharged or retired does not grant you additional priviledges.
4. Hows this for a little information. I have yet to see ONE SINGLE PIECE of legislation from a Democratic Party Government Official (Congress, Senate or President) that has gone and taken away your guns. You all poke fun at Liberals for wanting regulations and rules for this, but not once have any of YOU who tout the 2nd Amendment, not once, come up with an idea on how to combat weapons getting into the hands of those who shouldn't have them, but you sure as hell will scream bloody murder when someone on the other side makes a suggestion. Yet every time there IS a shooting, all you are even willing to do, which is hypocrisy of the HIGHEST level, is offer prayers and condolences to the victims and their families?
As a former member of the United States Air Force, I fought and served this nation. But for people to sit there and say we need MORE GUNS (just ask any of the gun retailers out there, as their sales are getting better and better each time) and we are to the point where it will become like, if it hasn't already, like the OLD wild west. Maybe, just maybe, we need the NRA to get its head OUT of politics and be what it was when it was founded. It is the National RIFLE Association, not the National Firearms association. You can rant and rave all you want about it. However, that hasn't gotten us anywhere other than to the point where you lie about Liberals taking away your guns and all. Yet, again, it hasn't happened. But when is enough actually enough and you who tout the 2nd Amendment actually realize that maybe, just maybe, you too have to share in the blame and SHAME that is the gun violence in this country and actually HELP to find a way to reduce it, since eliminating it would be impossible. But since there have been a little more than ONE incident PER DAY, maybe we have to wait until it becomes two or three times a day before 2nd Amendment people decide that maybe a solution would be better than puffing up and screaming about your rights...

Response by Sgt Michael Oberline made Dec 23 at 2015 9:15 AM

2015-12-23T09:15:04-05:00

I see two possible solutions to the problem. 1) Stop electing these "gun ban" nuts. 2) Make prior service a requirement to run for President. Making a draft dodging gun grabber Commander in Chief makes our country weak and deteriorates our rights.

Response by SSgt Frank Lanford made Dec 23 at 2015 9:47 AM

2015-12-23T09:47:45-05:00

I am Former Air Force "Security Police", with 12 years in, six years active and six years active reserve, I was required to have a minimum of 10 years in an actual Law Enforcement position to get MY LEOSA, which I got in July 2015. It required many hoops to jump through, and FBI Fingerprinting and complete FBI, background investigation, then I had to qualify on my weapon with the county Sheriff's Dept. that I live in. My LEOSA ID is good for five years and the Sheriff's Firearms Certification is done yearly. The whole thing did cost several hundred dollars to accomplish, but knowing I am FULLY legal in all 50 states is very reassuring and it was well worth the time, trouble and expense. I would be fine with the Law including ALL Veterans with ALL of the same standards, handgun training, background checks etc. that are involved. I feel we need more good Guys with guns out there on our streets I do think that the (Air Force) ten years requirement is a bit too much however.

Response by MAJ Tex Hall made Dec 23 at 2015 9:48 AM

2015-12-23T09:48:05-05:00

Shaun, I agree with your concept and the requirement to screen and train us further for use as reserves. I'd go further and say that selected personnel should be required to carry and 'check in' with Airlines/Public Transportation as well as Military bases. Having a reserve force of competent and capable fighters when needed at all of these target rich environments - that's what a gun free zone is to many criminals - to reduce the ability of the bad guys to accomplish their mission. We've seen it in places like Texas where terrorist thought they could get away with an attach but didn't realize how many weapons were there.
Tex

Response by SFC David Welch made Dec 23 at 2015 11:03 AM

2015-12-23T11:03:04-05:00

don't ever vote democrat.

Response by COL John Hudson made Dec 23 at 2015 11:48 AM

2015-12-23T11:48:28-05:00

I understand this is a sensitive and potentially controversial subject, as well as being outright opinionated. I obtained one of the first "Concealed Carry Weapon" (CCW) licenses issued in Arizona when they became available...more for the novelty than any practical consideration at the time. 16 hours mandatory classroom training and a trip out to the firing range...wonderful walk down memory lane and welcome practice for an old Army dog like me. I am and have always been opposed to a change in local law that removed the training requirement. That said, consider...those of you wishing to exercise your 'rights' under 'open carry.' Exactly who do you think is going to be the first target when a nutter opens fire in Walmart? Obviously, those who can be immediately seen to have a weapon. I applaud your sacrifice as that will provide me the time I need to run away or defend myself if necessary. I taught my children that life is a compass rose with 360 degrees. When trouble is standing in front of you...you have 359 other directions to go and I hope 180 degrees is your first choice. For all the rest - if you and I had been standing in that church in South Carolina when Dylann Roof opened fire, killing nine innocent, defenseless human beings, whose name would you be calling...God's, or mine? I am, obviously, a strong believer in self-defense. I have the practical experience of being a boots-on-the-ground combatant in three wars (Vietnam, Balkan, Iraq), so have both the mental competence and background to use good judgment in the use of my weapons. And for the record, I have documentary records demonstrating that I fired "Expert" on every weapon the Army placed in my hands, including helicopter gun ships. Signs on a business door won't stop violence, nor will they act to prevent me from being capable of defending myself, my family and friends. The first word in "CCW" is "concealed." What don't you understand about that?

Response by Sgt Tom Derus made Dec 23 at 2015 12:13 PM

2015-12-23T12:13:08-05:00

need to find out why Mayor Bloomberg is so against concealed carry......what is his agenda?
Also back the NRA and other orgs. like it

Response by SFC John La Voie made Dec 23 at 2015 12:24 PM

2015-12-23T12:24:37-05:00

Sorry - to many to read and I don't have a lot of time today so if this has already been posted, I will apologize in advance. The best way to deal with this would be national reciprocity - meaning it would be similar to a Driver's License - once you qualify in and get a CCL in your home state, it is good in every state. That might mean a little extra work for people in states like VT and AK where they have Constitutional Carry - but it should be easy enough to add the step to the state licensing system. There is no perfect solution as some of the states have some very strange and restrictive laws that we would still have to follow, but at least it would not be an automatic criminal offense just to have my carry weapon in a state like my former home state - Illinois, the last state to allow CCL.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-12-23T12:39:57-05:00

what state do you live in? many states, the sign carries no weight of law. meaning its just a sign. in Washington state, the sign meant nothing, but if another person or employee found out you were carrying, they could ask you to leave. refusal to comply became criminal trespass. concealed means concealed. carry your damn pistol and know the laws. don't be a victim because of a stupid sign

Response by Cpl Bryan Tallmadge made Dec 23 at 2015 1:08 PM

2015-12-23T13:08:25-05:00

unless the sign is backed by a federal or state statute i disregard the preferences of a business. Not because I am a rebel, but because I place the safety of not only myself but those around ahead of the view and opinions of those who chose to allow themselves to become victims.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-12-23T18:53:29-05:00

The liberal left? Not exactly, it's a policy issue that transcends politics. Newsflash: not all Republicans believe in the 2d A, and not all democrats hate it either.
Can't carry in the mall? Vote with your feet, and take your money elsewhere. Make sure to drop them a note too:
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/kentucky-discussion-and-firearm-news/35259-gunbusters-no-guns-drop-them-card.html

GunBusters? No Guns? Drop Them a Card.

I found some "No Guns, No Money" Cards in a couple of forums, so I doctored up a Kentucky specific version as a .pdf file that can be printe

Response by PO2 Nick Burke made Dec 23 at 2015 6:56 PM

2015-12-23T18:56:24-05:00

It will never happen until it is too late. I like the idea about extra training but that is why they are afraid of Vets. We have scary training and discipline......2 Things that most lack.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Dec 24 at 2015 2:17 AM

2015-12-24T02:17:25-05:00

Didn't you get the memo? The answer is more and more gun restrictions! At least according to the Liberal Lefties.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2015 9:13 AM

2015-12-24T09:13:32-05:00

Does this town have an actual law that says the mall must be a gun free zone or is this a private establishment that has chosen to not allow guns on its premises? Do your rights supersede the rights of a property owner? Why not "vote" with your pocketbook as they say and take your money elsewhere?

But really, if you have a conceal carry permit what's to really stop you from still entering these gun free zones? Weigh the pros and cons of ignoring the signs. If nothing happens then no one knows you carried. If something happens maybe you do get a chance to be that good guy with a gun that stops the bad guy. There's still a possibility that you'd initially face punishment but then you've got to decide if that potential punishment is a risk you're willing to take.

That said, just because a person's in the military doesn't mean they know how to handle a gun. However, some states, like Virginia do allow members of the military to obtain a concealed carry permit by showing proof of service. No extra training classes required.

Response by TSgt James Arnold made Dec 24 at 2015 9:57 AM

2015-12-24T09:57:53-05:00

So your solution is for everybody to carry a weapon to decrease the likelihood that the will be less fun crimes? We already know criminals don't follow rules. The purpose of the signs is to prevent everyone from carrying guns so that when crimes do occur, the law enforcement professionals can accurately assess the situation. Picture this. A criminal pulls out a gun in the bank and tries to rob the place. Everybody else in the bank pulls out their gun and the shootout begins. If there are 20 people in the bank with guns drawn along with the criminal, then there are at max, 20 dead people in the bank. How does this fix the problem? Everybody wants to wield a gun until the shootout begins.

Response by Sgt Ronnie Mack made Dec 24 at 2015 11:00 AM

2015-12-24T11:00:29-05:00

Since the cowardly acts of 9/11. The HR218 has allowed all law enforcement active/retirees to carry though out the 48 continuous states and the 49th and 50th. Yet, as you stated. It defeats the purpose of me not being able to carry in such places as the mall when this (federal) law was passed to help federal, state, and local law enforcement battle crime!!!

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Dec 25 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-12-25T15:08:17-05:00

Sp4 Skinner. This was a dumb idea a couple of years ago and is even dumber now since San Bernardino. Out side of the combat arms and law enforcement MOS's most military personal are a competent with a hand gun as an other Joe. The though that you can draw a weapons on somebody that already has a drop on you is the height of utter stupidity. Solders on base carrying fir arms off duty is a disaster waiting to happen. Young people in their teens and twenties combined alcohol, drugs, immature temper tantrums, the whole male female thing to list only a few common conditions that exist on any military instillation. If there are any mature adults left in the military with any sense at all this is an idea the won't get beyond the wacko's of the brain dead NRA and Conservative press that doesn't want to pay law enforcement a fair wage, this idea should go no where.

Response by SGT Mark Seymour made Dec 26 at 2015 9:45 AM

2015-12-26T09:45:34-05:00

I agree this is a major national concern. I also really like you, I do not take my firearm off unless I'm going into an area that by caring it will indeed put me in the risk to go to jail. Changes need to be made.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2015 12:13 AM

2015-12-27T00:13:02-05:00

Well that is a good question, and don't get frustrated thinking no one is trying to get it approved. This was a clip from last May. "WASHINGTON – The U.S. House passed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the 2016 fiscal year on Friday, including an amendment that would allow military base commanders to authorize the concealed carry of firearms on military installations." Pull it up, do some research on who supported this and call them up. Or better yet call up the ones who didn't support it and give them a logical reason from your point of view. Just remember keep emotion out of it and be professional.

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Dec 27 at 2015 2:02 PM

2015-12-27T14:02:39-05:00

This is a classic Catch-22 where you're damned if you do (violating a local law) and damned if you don't (defending against an active shooter empty-handed). I don't frequent businesses that promote 'no self-defense zones'. Period.

Response by MSgt Doug Miller made May 12 at 2016 7:01 PM

2016-05-12T19:01:48-04:00

I am retired Air Force, retired LEO, and active with our sheriff's reserve. I was advised at Wright Patt in 2012 that I couldn't carry unless I was on official business. I haven't been to a base since then. I also don't see any big advantage of going to a base anyway. I'm doing quite well on the economy. Like American Express, I don't leave home without it. You ol guys will understand that.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Jun 2 at 2016 12:05 PM

2016-06-02T12:05:51-04:00

I've been around a long time. I'm well trained, two police academies, years on that job in all sorts of situations. Never had to shoot my gun. I left police work in 1980 and since then, in all my travels globally, to places nobody every heard of and some places people know about, I never had any reason to need a gun. I was an unarmed contractor working in the "Red" zone in Baghdad during the height of the insurgency in 2006. I saw VBEDs and IEDs go off, I heard gunfire in the distance, but never once needed one, never had anybody close threaten me so I wished I'd had one. In the USA, I've never seen a robbery in the mall, nor in the parking lot. I'm certain places get robbed and I don't know where folks live, but if I was scared to go someplace without a gun, I'd move because I wouldn't live in a crazy place like that - unless I really wanted a chance to get into a shoot out, then I'd carry all the time hoping.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Jun 2 at 2016 5:37 PM

2016-06-02T17:37:38-04:00

If you are an Army Military or Civilian Police Officer there is under United States Code.
http://www.leosaarmy.com/

Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act: Leosa

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is a United States federal law, enacted in 2004, that allows two classes of persons - the "qualified law enforcement officer" and the "qualified retired or separated law enforcement officer" - to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction in the United States or United States Territories, regardless of state or local laws, with certain exceptions.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2016 1:00 PM

2016-07-29T13:00:01-04:00

If you are a federal (retired in good standing) law officer with 10 or more years of faithful service, you can get an LEOSA permit, good in all 50 states. Just google LEOSA. If you are not a former federal officer/agent, I'm not aware of any permit.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Aug 4 at 2016 3:11 PM

2016-08-04T15:11:01-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner. I will disregard the nonsense from the poster, its just right wing bull shit, that is factually incorrect…Outside of Government Property Fire arms laws are not a Federal issue but a star issue and on the question of carry there appears to be 51 shades of gray (Washington for these purposes is considered the same as a state)…In California pending any Supreme court decision on a pending appeal, there is no open carry period and concealed carry is at the discretion of the County Sheriff. The state has has policy guide that the local law officials can consult and an appeal can be made to the State Attorney General, or taken into the court system but in general the local Sheriff has the latitude to decide as she/he may chose…On Military Reservations the law/rules come Under DoD policy. In regard to weapons and the last I've seen is the answer is No…Weapons owned by personal living in on base housing are what the Base commander says they are. Lose fire arms in the hands of troopers is a very bad idea. To many soldiers are temperamental, way to much drugs and alcohol consumption for caring a concealed weapon to not to lead to a tragedy.

Response by SFC George Smith made Sep 19 at 2016 8:42 PM

2016-09-19T20:42:30-04:00

I've seen this addressed before ... the DOJ used to Require The service members to Be part of the Military Law enforcement and or "Sworn Officers... " or "Special Agents" but that was in the past...

Response by PFC Harry Leuchen made Oct 17 at 2016 10:13 PM

2016-10-17T22:13:08-04:00

Let me just put it out there that the passing of concealed carry laws has caused a HUGE increase in violent crime.

A study from STANFORD University has proven that concealed carry actually makes the citizens of this country far less safe than before:

http://news.stanford.edu/2014/11/14/donohue-guns-study-111414/

Right-to-carry gun laws linked to increase in violent crime, Stanford research shows

Stanford research reaffirms that right-to-carry gun laws are connected with an increase in violent crime. This debunks – with the latest empirical evidence – earlier claims that more guns actually lead to less crime.

Response by SFC John La Voie made Oct 27 at 2016 2:58 PM

2016-10-27T14:58:18-04:00

It may very well be time to leave this RP all together. As members of the various services, it is not our place to be so politically out spoken. Beyond that, I believe there are more retired or former service members than active duty, which also means we can be more free with our tongues. To turn this into a huge the Left said this and the Right said that argument is ridiculous and gives to much ink to the very problem. Everyone doing the "Old Potomac 2-Step" (sorry, had to use that one from Clear and Present Danger), should be fired, regardless of what side of the aisle they are on as they are the problem and are definitely NOT providing any solutions. Should there be national reciprocity - most definitely yes. As for the argument about standardized training, any one care to show me the standardized training to get a DL? Other than Red means stop and Green means go, pick any 2 states and you will find different rules. For the "you can walk in, buy something and walk out" argument, please support yourself as I do not know of any LEGITIMATE arms dealer with an FFL that does not make you wait for a back ground check. Personal, 1 off sales are a product of the state, so a federal reciprocity rule might very well help those of you that think all sales should be registered - think about it. As for CCL's, please tell me what state does not make you renew so I can get a license there, and before you say, yes there are states that do not require a CCL, but that is not what your argument was based on. Instead of being part of the problem, be part of the solution, do some real research, get ALL of the facts, then comment on how to fix the problem instead of continuing to add to it.