How can we improve re-adjustment training?

2015-08-01T17:42:36-04:00

I deployed in 1990 and returned in 1991. There were no re-adjustment training programs.

My son returned from Afghanistan a few months ago. I have witnessed and been following his division closely. It appears that there is a significant spike in DUI, substance abuse, domestic violence, and other disciplinary problems. Rather than work with the soldiers the command seems to just Chapter 14 and get rid of the soldier. This causes many good soldiers to lose access to benefits when they are returned to society. The punitive approach as well as lack of consistency is disturbing.

I welcome anyone who can shed some light on this issue.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2015 5:56 PM

2015-08-01T17:56:03-04:00

For startes look at the time difference, it's been 25 years. Also, we are in a massive draw down. Just those two things cause for concern. The generation gap from the average Soldier age to your command team age will always be there, so that is our constant. Fighting a war against an insurgent force and coming home is different than either world war, or even against Korea. Those were clearly defined enemies. Even the Republican Guard under Sadaam Hussein had a clear uniform. The restrictions on ROE and EOF are a lot tighter than they used to be, so that could be part of the problem. I have dealt personally with survivors guil, on why I wasn't there when some lost their life against an IED. We all deal with grief and loss in different ways and we always will. Another constant. The biggest problem today is the sense of entitlement. Soldiers feel they are allowered to do something because they are in the military. The Army pushes so much on SHARP, EO and MRT training, but really it only checks a box. If NCO's and Officers really invest in their Soldiers, these problems would not be near as large. Getting back to truly taking care of the person on you left and right is what needs to happen. But, the Army is a machine that will keep turning no matter the problem, and it will continue to knee jerk reaction to every pokitical problem as well. Taking care of our own is where it has to start.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2015 6:17 PM

2015-08-01T18:17:44-04:00

Largely laws and their enforcement has changed. 25 years ago a dui might get you a ride home in a cop car, worst case a night in jail and a headache from the legal system. Now best case it's a career ender. I would also argue that the "everyone gets a trophy generation" has drastically reduced American's ability to take a setback in life, resiliency in modern terms. The military is also undergoing a significant downsizing causing commanders to have a need to get rid of the more undesirables rather than being forced to not re-enlist the good soldiers. When I was a commander I told my soldiers, I will never choose you to be kicked out, you will choose you, I merely process the paperwork.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 1 at 2015 7:19 PM

2015-08-01T19:19:30-04:00

Some leaders only see the misbehavior and not the mental state of the SMs. It is critical that SMs ask for mental health help.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2015 7:21 PM

2015-08-01T19:21:24-04:00

Make it black and white. If you do those things you're gone. It's too much instances where you see some people "get off lightly" and other soldiers follow suite thinking they'll get off too. They get hammered, so blanket it across the board.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Aug 2 at 2015 1:11 AM

2015-08-02T01:11:26-04:00

While the early 90s, post desert storm, was also had a massive drawdown, I think this era is different, and here is why. We are also downsizing, but the Army is also trying to get a handle on what we called "a loss of garrison leadership" when the Army Gold Book and Red Book came out several years back in effort to figure out record suicides, sexual assaults and a myriad of other sweeping issues. Essentially they both said during the mid to 2005-2010, all the problems the Army had were due to a loss of discipline (mostly in garrison), caused in part part by lowering standards to reach recruiting and retention goals during the height of OEF - OIF. Starting in 2010/11 the Army started clamping down on all types of indiscipline, in effort to fix these issues. I am not sure there is more indiscipline now, but I know enforcement is up, to possibly zero tolerance levels, as Commanders at all levels are under scrutiny to right the ship. These are signs of the times; both the down-sizing, and also trying to restore discipline that we all let slip away.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Aug 2 at 2015 1:14 AM

2015-08-02T01:14:26-04:00

SGT Christina Wilder the reason for the quick boot is the draw down.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2015 11:36 PM

2015-08-04T23:36:32-04:00

There is help out there. After my first deployment, during reintegration I was advised to seek help for a few things. I placed my PCS and other things first. Before my second deployment I found myself seeking the help I needed. 9 years later, I still have access to help and still in with career progression. It's out there, they have to take advantage.

Response by SN Timothy Ehrenhaft made Aug 5 at 2015 1:26 AM

2015-08-05T01:26:30-04:00

I've read all the responses to this post, and all are right-on from each poster's perspective. As a Gulf War vet who imploded after coming home, I can tell you that, yes, help was available and easily accessible. Yes, family was there, and available to talk to. It didn't matter.
While everyone on this post is theorizing, you're missing is the reality of what's going on inside the mind of the SM who's imploding: It's not that we don't want help - we do; it's not that we cannot see that we need help - we can. Something we don't understand will not allow us to do it - in spite of our desire, we simply cannot engage to take the necessary action.
We cannot make you understand what we cannot put into words; this is not a lack of vocabulary or language skills, it's not "vapor lock" - it is the loss of an ability - a paralysis of communication. If you've truly lost an active ability, you understand.
While we appreciate our family or command caring enough to offer suggestions (guessing), it becomes chaff, and deflecting the chaff of everyone around us offering guesses just compounds the difficulty of our situation.
This is not "leave me alone to wallow in self pity" or "let me get a free pass" so don't bother climbing on that soap box of guessing - you'd be wrong again. Over the past 25 years, I've worked through all the emotion so that only the core problem remains. The simple, honest, fact of the reality that is inside our head at the moment, and 25 years later is "I cannot communicate that which I do not understand."
No one, at any level of education or rank, has that ability.
Perhaps if you've experienced trying to reconcile the phantom itching of an amputated limb, you'd have a clue to the frustration we suffer from kind of communication disconnect we experience. I can't even draw any parallels that fully convey the concept, so settle for cliche's such as "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". So i reiterate the mind of the imploding soldier: I cannot communicate that which I do not understand. No one, at any level of education or rank, has that ability.

As for solutions, I have none, because after 25 years, I'm still learning to cope with this myself so I can have a "normal" life. As none can help, this seems to be a path we must walk alone.

(the rest is a cranky rant, so you can stop reading now)

This is where we need our "brother's keeper" the most - to protect us from ourselves. You just need to figure out when to intervene and how much.
If you want someone you care about to avoid a DUI, take their keys (by force, if necessary) rather than just saying "Hey, don't drink and drive" while they are getting in the car. We'll hate you for getting in our way at the moment, but later, we'll thank you for saving our career or more importantly, our life. As someone stated earlier, if you wait for the event, it's too late. Your brother can stumble all he wants, but if your brother falls, you've failed to be your brother's keeper. Reactionary measures are not a remedy by design. Reactionary measures such as CH14 are just CYA for the brass because no one likes to admit they failed. I've acknowledged my failures - I didn't like it, but I did it. It put me on a higher moral path than most.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Aug 5 at 2015 12:37 PM

2015-08-05T12:37:15-04:00

SGT Christina Wilder - Sergeant; My suggestion was that there should be a mandatory "cooling down phase" following deployment where the troops remained under military discipline and were gradually re-introduced to "normal life".

I also suggested that this be coupled by a mandatory "directed leave" policy where the troops (and their families) would be housed in resorts and (loosely) monitored by the military.

I also suggested that there was no such thing as "IF the soldier is having problems." and that all returnees be advised that we EXPECTED there to be "re-adjustment issues" SOME of which SOME of them would handle on their own and SOME of which SOME of them would need assistance in dealing with but that what our goal was was to ensure that ALL of them finally dealt with ALL of the issues in a manner which provided for a successful continuation of their career.

All three of those would have cost a lot of money.

All three of those would have (helped significantly) to prevent the necessity for discharging valuable personnel and to prevent the unwanted consequences of undealt with "deployment issues".

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Aug 5 at 2015 12:57 PM

2015-08-05T12:57:39-04:00

One thing I know from my deployment to Bosnia in 95 and my deployment to the Stan in 08 is that upon redeployment, there is a "Doctor" that asks you screening questions to see if there is/was anything mentally wrong with you. The problem is that you have an entire unit that is waiting to get through and go on about their business and those that went in beforehand are now coming out and briefing those about to go in. What this does is fails those with real issues because instead of getting the help needed, they're giving the "right" answers to go to the next station. Afterwards the next thing you hear is someone dead, in jail, domestic violence, and a litany of other items that could've been caught had those friendly "briefing's" hadn't occurred. I cannot speak for the 101st, but I can speak for what I went through both times, and I'll bet a shiny penny your son and countless others have gone through also. If you really want your son to get helped, convince himself to help HIMSELF. It's bigger than his career, it's his life now, and he HAS to want it. And in some cases the CoC really doesn't matter; they can refer you to get help, but if the Soldier doesn't want it, then it's time wasted, and that Soldier is ripe for a medboard or a chapter. In the end everyone looses.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 8:48 AM

2015-08-06T08:48:03-04:00

I promise myself not to fall in the politic trap and be scared to stick up for good Soldier. I think from 2003-2010 everyone grew quickly through the ranks and never had the chance to deal with soldiers problems. It all depends on who's your leader some understand some don't. There many programs out there but we don't use them correctly. Officers don't understand cause their 1SG or CMS who IS STUCK between a rock and a stone when making these decsions

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Aug 6 at 2015 10:16 AM

2015-08-06T10:16:39-04:00

Understand that 'readjustment training' may take several years to complete depending on the individual. It may not ever be completed.

Response by SGT Hutch Dubosque made Aug 6 at 2015 12:15 PM

2015-08-06T12:15:18-04:00

Christina,
I am just about finished with a "Mandatory Military Separation Transition Program" I have been working on for six months. I would like to forward it to you when it's finished for your critique. My research has pointed to a very vague and elusive Program that is incredibly hard to sign up for. I think your son and all his brothers-in-arms could benefit from even half of my proposal.
I am an old Vietnam Veteran, Combat Medic, 25th Division. I have developed some good contacts in DC to get this type of program going. My email: [login to see]

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Aug 6 at 2015 7:59 PM

2015-08-06T19:59:14-04:00

Punishing anyone, never works. Soldiers, Airmen, Marines, Sailors- have to be told what they did wrong; and shown HOW to do things right.
I don't recall any counseling being given to us before I got out; during the Cold War. Even in the Psychiatric Ward.
I came out of the Army with a disability. I have a 100% service-connected mental illness/stress disorder.
I became an alcoholic (Just wanted to numb myself) ; and smoked like a fiend.
That was 15 years ago. I have changed 1,000%. :)
(I stopped drinking, smoking and taking drugs; at least 15 years ago.) The trick is TO BE HIGH on LIFE.
In answer to the question: there should be re-adjustment training programs; for school (AA, BA, MA, PhD degrees- or even high school or the equivalent.)
There should be re-adjustment training programs for vocational schools
And there Definitely should be re-adjustment training programs for Jobs and Careers.
When one is in the military- one is told what to do- every step of the way.
After one is discharged, it's a zoo out here.
I even asked my father: what's important in life? He answered that "a lot of things are automatic."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-08-06T21:24:48-04:00

We used to be more liberal with corrective training tools rather than send joe packing. A little brig time here, some CCC there (Boot-camp redeaux in the Marines), some sammich signs at red lights for traffic violations, a Flava Flav clock around the neck of tardy soldiers. Screwing up was an option but the consequences were fearsome. It made great stories. It is great that we have mostly eliminated straight up hazing, but in the process we have eliminated retraining tools. I guess my post sounds mean but I think if we made our soldiers disciplined again, a lot of these post deployment problems wouldn't exist.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2015 6:33 PM

2015-08-07T18:33:49-04:00

Vietnam, door gunner on a Huey, 66-67. I can only speak for myself. I didn't realize I had a mental problem. I drank a lot back then and worked shift work with all of the overtime I could get. This is one of the symptoms I had for PTSD. In 1999 I was forced to take a medical retirement because I could no longer function at work. I had a major meltdown at my job. I went to a psychologist for three years prior to my medical retirement. I went to the VA in 2000. I take twenty pills a day. Some in the morning, some at bedtime. I still have flashbacks, although not as often. I still lose my temper, get depressed, suicidal, don't like crowds, sit with my back to a wall, and can't take much BS from anyone. I get depressed having to take so many meds for my depression. I turned 70 in June. I've been fighting this since 1966. I've read or heard two different reasons why a current military member can't let their superiors know they are depressed or have suicide thoughts. What I understand is its because they will be discharged for mental health reasons, or discharged with a general discharge. I don't know if this is true or not. If it is, it doesn't give the member any options to get help for themselves. Our military medical help has come a long way, but it's still not far enough.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 4:47 PM

2015-08-08T16:47:50-04:00

I will say that I am returning from my third deployment. At this point the Army is doing a great job at this. When I deployed in 2003 it wasn't that way. But I don't even know what else the Army could do to make it better. I think we learned our lesson.

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 8 at 2015 6:24 PM

2015-08-08T18:24:28-04:00

I think all the resources are clear and defined when one is not in crisis mode however is crisis mode the help available gets lost in all the chaos. When a SM is self medicating and contemplating sucking on their 9mm chapter 14 is the last thing they are thinking about. As well approaching those in crisis in often not well received so getting the help on target is a problem as well. Having watched a friend spiral out of control this is not only an active status problem - as my friend was out for over a year before it began. I will say that being active does add a level that further complicates the problem. Kicking these guys and gals to the curb is just wrong.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2015 10:51 PM

2015-08-08T22:51:32-04:00

I am an MRT. This is the question that we are battling. The Army honestly thinks that it sunk a LOT of money into a program that is NOT working. I cannot argue it. Here is the problem, I can stand up in front of a group of people for 8 hours and teach MRT, or EO or SHAARP (yeah I have all three) and if the mind(s) I am teaching to are not open to the information, then it will do no good. Bottom line, we CAN'T improve it. We cannot improve it except to the people that are wanting to hear it. It is like FRG, my wife HATES the FRG, when I got hurt in Iraq, the first person she heard anything about it from was me when I called from Germany (I do not remember calling her). Her anger is directed towards the FRG. THEN, the commands that I have been in, cannot get support for it, so they make the meetings MANDATORY, so either I have to leave her and go, or I drag her to them. So there she is unresponsive, unwilling to listen and therefore it doesn't matter WHAT they say, she is NOT going to listen.
Redeployment training, if someone ONLY has on their mind, I cannot BELIEVE that they are making me sit through this, I just got back from a 6,9,12,15 month deployment and now I HAVE to listen to this, closed mind, NO hope of them listening.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 10 at 2015 8:06 AM

2015-08-10T08:06:49-04:00

Involve the family

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Aug 10 at 2015 8:51 AM

2015-08-10T08:51:01-04:00

1) Form a board
2) Make assessments what went right and wrong
3) Collect all the possible solutions for what went wrong
4) Present it to the Chain of Command for evaluation and approval
5) Implement training to salvage good soldiers/military personnel
6) Assign sponsors if needed based on the individuals

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 10:24 PM

2015-08-20T22:24:00-04:00

Ban powerpoints