How could I have handled a Soldier displaying gang affiliation on social media better?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 13:53:05 -0400

I came across a soldier who displayed gang affiliation on his Facebook page. Throwing up gang signs, flashing colors, etc. I messaged him on June 23rd and advised him that gang affiliation is illegal to service members, and that he should remove the posts and the pictures. On July 4th, I happened across the message I sent and noticed that he read it almost immediately after I sent it (time stamps were the same),but he did not reply, so I checked the profile to see if they had been taken down. They had not. I sought counsel with two DS (that were mutual friends) and was told to contact CID. So I filed a report with the MPIs, and provided them with the evidence. Did I handle this the right way? Or is there another way I should have handled it?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 1:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 13:56:27 -0400

100% handled it correctly.

Response by SSG Roderick Smith made Jul 5 at 2016 1:59 PM

SSG Roderick Smith — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 13:59:38 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member, there are a lot of things that you can handle at the lowest levels. Gang affiliation really isn't one of them. You did the right thing.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:02 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:02:33 -0400

Did he respond to your advice that it was illegal?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:06 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:06:51 -0400

Only comment I have...coming from the army where gang activity was a major problem...this might not be one of those situations where you might not have wanted talk to them directly...could make you a target. Almost the only time where I would even think that talking to a person might not be the best idea.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Jul 5 at 2016 2:10 PM

MSG David Johnson — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:10:32 -0400

There could have been a bit of a better way, but if you sought guidance about the issue and the course of action you took is what was suggested then you should sleep well at night.
Did you give the SM time to remove all the posts? Did they tell you to go fuck off? There is so much information missing from your question that the polling options really don't give much choice.
If you feel in your mind you went through the entire decision making process and this is the decision you made then you should sleep well at night and put this in your rear view mirror.
As I said, there is so much information not posted, how much time went by? Were the posts actually gang related, or just some wannabe? Just so many more questions that are not addressed in the question.

I'm sure you will get differing opinions on this post, I'm interested on what others think about the subject.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:21 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:21:25 -0400

Nope, you did right and good. The rest is up to CID and that Soldier's command

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:26 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:26:41 -0400

Good job, the only thing to add would be the actual regulation reference as to provide the individual clear guidance as to were it's written and that way the Soldier/soldiers cannot stand ground and argue back.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jul 5 at 2016 2:33 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:33:25 -0400

From the sound of it. You handled it just fine.

Response by SPC Rebecca M. made Jul 5 at 2016 2:34 PM

SPC Rebecca M. — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:34:33 -0400

Realistically, there is no "off duty" time when you're in the military. Service members are also bound to a different set of rules (UCMJ among other things). I run into this problem at work where I see my clients (who are also employees of my company) blatantly displaying things that are against company regulations, but as a civilian agency, I can't really enforce something that happens while not on the job site. That is not the case with the military. There are standards of conduct that apply 24/7, and gang affiliation is one of those. In my opinion, you handled it well, by first approaching the individual informally and unofficially with the warning/notification, but when there was no response and no action taken, you acted in accordance with the good of the unit - yet still tried to handle it at a level where there would be no official repercussions to this person's actions by posting such information on Facebook. You sought counsel from more knowledgeable and respected individuals, and followed their advice. This person had multiple opportunities to act on the information you provided and the request, yet still chose not to comply with the code of conduct. I say you did very well in your handling of the situation (and this is from someone who deals with reporting procedures and complaints daily, as I deal with ADA violations, EEOC complaints, and various investigations in my work, all of which have to follow proper handling protocols). The goal is always to resolve an issue at the lowest possible level of consequence unless it's something so huge that such is simply not feasible nor desired. Gang activity was a huge thing when I was in the Army and as such, it is good that you turned it over to CID for them to take action. Just watch your six. Sometimes, legitimately or not, those who are considered to be "whistle blowers" can end up being a target, being seen as a snitch. At this point it's out of your hands, and I'd leave it that way.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:35:58 -0400

SPC Italino Pietrantonio,

First, I will tell you great job on securing our Army's future! Secondly, I would say that the action alone to even want address was also as other could have just disregarded it. However, where I would tell you could do better is in your execution. After all, you have your job and MPIs and CID have theirs. What that means to you is the following:
ID the problem
ID the need IOT resolve it
Contact the proper authorities
Conduct a seemless change over of potential evidence

From there it is up to that entity to do their due diligence in ensuring they affect of the determinant solution. Unless you are an MP, MPI 0r CID agent you should not do any investigative work, nor should you alert the individual. It sounds like you wanted to square the SM away which is also commendable, but thing will square themselves away throughout the process. We simply I'd and report the proper authorizes.

Response by SGT William Howell made Jul 5 at 2016 2:40 PM

SGT William Howell — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:40:32 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Perfect in every way. There are things that get handled in house and there are crimes that the MPs handle. Gang activity on post is growing and it takes people like you to stop that kind of stuff. Well done!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 2:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:43:54 -0400

I believe you handled this very well. You allowed the SM to make the corrections and when that did not happen you took it up to the correct level. Well done.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jul 5 at 2016 2:44 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:44:26 -0400

Potential criminal activity is best left to those with the task of investigating.
More so when if proven true, the seriousness is much greater.
So, some SM says on FB, my wife left me for some dude, Im staying in housing till I PCS next year.. He might warrant a message saying, dude, look it up, thats all sorts of wrong and can get you in hot water. If he modifys his behavior, problem solved, if he does not and is investigated later, well the paper trail is as damning then as it was before and it's a mostly victimless crime.

If the SM is stating he is dealing, selling stolen property, in a gang, driving drunk every weekend... Thats a note to CID at his home duty station and links to where you observed the statements.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 5 at 2016 2:47 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:47:28 -0400

Unless you knew the Soldier I would have advised you to do what you did without direct contact. All after was fine.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jul 5 at 2016 3:11 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 15:11:25 -0400

With the facts provided, I see nothing wrong with how it was handled...be on guard yourself though...something we really should be at all times anyways...because you did make contact before this gets any bigger...if it does.

Response by SPC Jeff Zimmerman made Jul 5 at 2016 3:11 PM

SPC Jeff Zimmerman — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 15:11:42 -0400

I understand you messaged him, but why not face-to-face? I find that even in civilian life people will not take a written message as serious as in person counselling.

Response by SGT Nicholas Eineichner made Jul 5 at 2016 3:49 PM

SGT Nicholas Eineichner — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 15:49:26 -0400

To play devil's advocate if Facebook was left open on his computer it will say he read it even though he may not have seen it. Do you think said soldier is actually affiliated with the gang, or is he just flashing signs to be cool on Facebook? Lots to consider, but regardless gang ties to service members is a no go.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jul 5 at 2016 3:50 PM

PO3 David Fries — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 15:50:13 -0400

I believe you handled it in the only way possible.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 4:41 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 16:41:04 -0400

You made the right decision.

Response by CPL Reginald Gebo made Jul 5 at 2016 5:24 PM

CPL Reginald Gebo — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:24:08 -0400

You absolutely handled that correctly. Many SM's fail to realize that social media can more often than not get them in trouble. There a lot of things you can't say or post on social media due to your position. This pertains from fresh privates to seasoned SNCO's and Officers. Watch what you say on FB. Could come back to haunt you.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 5:54 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:54:13 -0400

You handled it by the book. Majority of people would have ignored it or not cared enough to follow up. Great work.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 6:02 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 18:02:54 -0400

you did right by reporting it

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 5 at 2016 8:33 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 20:33:14 -0400

Hell Yes....Call CID and push till it breaks. The Army is NO PLACE for gang bangers

Response by SFC Michael Smart made Jul 5 at 2016 9:07 PM

SFC Michael Smart — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 21:07:19 -0400

Q- Is he a friend or coworker that you work with? Personally as a leader, I would of confronted him face to face and ask questions of his involvement and advised him of his actions, and what action will be taken against him if he doesn't apply.
You as a specialist could of brought leadership in and controlled the situation with out personal involvement. Human nature is to listen and follow leadership, not your pier who stand side by side with you. (Sad but True) I found over time as a Soldier growing and learning, education is the best tool for any growing mind. A young mind is pretty much empty to many things around them until confronted and enforced. (Law)
You confronting him on the social network shows that you have knowledge of his actions, but of course he did not take you for your word. People are going to be people no matter how much we see wrong or right. Education is the key to so many wrong things going on around us every day. Huaaaaa!

Response by SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris made Jul 6 at 2016 1:15 AM

SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 01:15:04 -0400

Absolutely handled it fine. If he's just posturing, then the proper authorities will find out. If he's really into the gang banging life, he'll be tossed out. I'll share a bit of my experience: I was investigated by NCIS for being linked to a sailor overdosing on an illicit substance in the BEQ when I was stationed on a Naval Air Station. The sailor who implicated me was being investigated for gang activities and drug running himself, unbeknownst to me. I knew this guy through a friend of a friend, but we weren't friends. He dropped my name because I worked in the city where the Naval Base's annex was located, which is where the sailor got the drugs from. My name was dropped to provide him a cover.

So, I was questioned by NCIS & asked if I knew who Johnny Matthis was. After having a really good laugh because I thought they were referring to the singer, they told me why they brought me in for questioning. I started laughing again and had to explain that I'd be the last person on the base running /selling or doing anything with drugs because of my job. I worked with the Masters At Arms (Military Police) K9 handlers taking care of their narcotic/patrol, & explosive/patrol dogs. I had the Senior Chief (E7) & all the handlers vouch for me.

The kid who tried to set me up got kicked out on a bad paper discharge.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 4:39 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 04:39:10 -0400

Job well done

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 4:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 04:41:10 -0400

Nobody wants thuggish soldiers. Bad attitudes/disrespect turn toxic.

Response by SSG James Conley made Jul 6 at 2016 6:28 AM

SSG James Conley — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 06:28:30 -0400

One thing that should NOT be used with your soldiers is electronic counsel. Face to face that soldier and counsel on the issue.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 7:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 07:32:02 -0400

You handled it perfectly! You even went to the Soldier first. That is t required but it shows you did what was right morally in addition to what you had to do legally.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jul 6 at 2016 7:59 AM

SSG Warren Swan — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 07:59:08 -0400

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzDElw2FVQQ

Morris Day and The Time - Jungle Love (HQ)

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jul 6 at 2016 10:08 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 10:08:31 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member By all means you handled it correctly. The system needs to know of these folks so they can be checked out. Maybe he was joking, maybe he was serious who knows? At any rate the authorities need to look into him and inform his command. If he is a gang-banger he needs to be shown the door asap.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jul 6 at 2016 10:33 AM

1LT William Clardy — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 10:33:54 -0400

If you know the soldier, why not contact his chain of command before initiating a formal criminal investigation? Unless the investigators are seasoned enough to know when the best course of action for all is to let the soldier's command correct him informally, you summarily closed off the one course of action which could have resulted in the soldier being effectively disciplined without leaving any permanent marks on his record.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Jul 6 at 2016 10:50 AM

SSG Richard Reilly — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 10:50:05 -0400

Screen shots and report to command. telling them simply to take it down doesn't solve the issue that they may be gang affiliated. report and let the investigation give a commander a decision to make.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Jul 6 at 2016 2:26 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 14:26:16 -0400

Me personally, I would have minded my own business. Everyone wants to save the world. You're going to be that NCO that walks around the PX and makes every correction you can possibly make. Its exhausting and you should worry about the Soldiers you can actually make change in. You do this by investing time and hard work.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Jul 6 at 2016 2:49 PM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 14:49:34 -0400

Sounds completely appropriate to me. Good job.

Response by SFC Harry D. Sayles made Jul 6 at 2016 9:03 PM

SFC Harry D. Sayles — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 21:03:42 -0400

You did the right thing.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 11:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Jul 2016 23:51:33 -0400

Everything you did in that situation is wrong, that's fine. It's a learning experience. First of all what "colors" was this kid "flashing" and secondly what the in the h*ll do you know about colors and signs? should I be reporting you to CID BRO!?
Secondly... is this YOUR Soldier!? in the sense that you have actual counseling authority over him? Yeah. I didn't think so.
So why are you F**cking with this soldier? Did you report him to his own chain of command and let them handle the situation? No? Didn't think so. The bottom line is that it sounds to me like you're whoring out your social media for attention at the expense of everyone around you without regard to the fact that it's none of your business and you should let it alone. I don't know you so I can't say for certain but that's how it comes across to me. You're looking for attention at the expense of your battle buddies and you should knock it the hell off.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 1:47 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 13:47:01 -0400

I take it that you didn't personally know this Soldier? If you did, you could have gone to the chain of command. There's nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution. Tattoos are verboten but gang affiliation in and of itself is not illegal. You can also use IG and MI resources like iWatch to report these things. It's funny though that the RP picture shown for this article is a Marine throwing up the "Lance Corporal" hand sign.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 2:30 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 14:30:48 -0400

Does this still apply to Reserves and National Guard?

Response by TSgt Scott Hurley made Jul 7 at 2016 3:13 PM

TSgt Scott Hurley — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 15:13:42 -0400

You handled it correctly. All branches seem to be having problems with this. But, they are being handled in a way as to not disrupt unit cohesion. If they are still affiliated with the gang then they need to go. But if they have left that life behind and do not make contact with their former homies. Then it is a grain of salt. Criminal records are a different matter altogether in this situation.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2016 8:22 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Jul 2016 20:22:17 -0400

The first question you should (and did) ask yourself in any situation involving upholding standards is this: "Should I take action?" This seems simple, as the black-and-white answer is always "Uphold the standard, no matter what". However, some of the best leaders I've encountered understood intuitively that although we all WANT the army to have clear-cut, black-and-white standards, it won't always be an easy moral decision. For example, let's say I have a soldier who financially supports his terminally ill family member. This soldier fails to properly plan his finances and bounces a check at the PX. Do I uphold the established policy regarding bounced checks, and punish the soldier (and potentially his family) by taking his pay? Or do I uphold the moral standard and assist the soldier to better plan his finances? Or do I do both? The point is, there will always be grey areas--the hallmark of a good soldier, and a great leader, is the ability to navigate those murky waters.

I believe that in this case, you were absolutely right to take some sort of action. Inaction or silence on your part would amount to a tacit approval of gang association within the Army, which is clearly unacceptable. The next question, after "Should I act," is "How?". You had several approaches to this situation, which you clearly considered. The first, and easiest, is to be direct and address your concern with the individual. You did, and from the sounds of it, you did so professionally and impersonally, which is highly commendable. You also turned to other professionals for their advice, which again is laudable. However, when weighing their advice about taking the matter to CID, I think you should have considered reaching out to the individual again. It's entirely possible that he read it, and forgot about it, or disregarded your message as spam. It's also entirely possible he didn't fully realize the consequences of his actions. If it were me, I would've given him another opportunity to correct his behavior on his own. I would have reached out again, perhaps a bit more vigorously by pointing out that my next course of action would be to report his behavior to the appropriate personnel.

Either way, you handled it well, and ultimately your final course of action was the right one--although I find that often the right solution and the best solution are not always one and the same.

Response by MAJ Seth Goldstein made Jul 8 at 2016 11:30 AM

MAJ Seth Goldstein — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 11:30:13 -0400

There is no place for gang affiliation in the military. I delt with this same type of behavior swiftly and harshly in Iraq.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jul 8 at 2016 5:37 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 17:37:19 -0400

It's hard to say why some guys tell stories, and pretend to be something their not. Many times its because in their own minds they don't think they measure up to everyone else. That their fellow soldiers the real thing, and their faking it. As a consequence of this, they try to pass themselves off as bad guys, or heroes by telling BS stories. Most of the time is comes from one, or both of their parents, or someone in their lives telling them they don't measure up. My old man use to call me --you---boy-- or on occasion ---hey stupid. Instead of encouraging me to achieve one of my dreams, he would ridicule me at every opportunity. I wasn't so much his son-- as I was someone for him to laugh at. We will all find soldiers in this situation from time to time, and you'll find a little praise will go a long way with them. They need to be told their as good everyone else. To put it simply, they need someone in authority to say the words. As a 1st Sergeant your job is to look upon the young men and women in your charge as your kids. I'm not suggesting you let them get away with murder, but be someone they can look up to and take their problems to. It goes for a platoon daddy as well. There's much more to leadership than just giving orders, and busting someone's ass for not following regulations. ----Before you act---find out why a problem happening, think it through before you act. NCO's are the backbone of any military. Decide what type of one you want to be.

Response by SGT Ty McBride made Jul 8 at 2016 6:17 PM

SGT Ty McBride — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:17:35 -0400

As previously stated, you did the right thing. Gang affiliation is nothing to joke about nor try to pass off as something you're not. I've had a couple of solider tell me about their "Past Lives" but that's a different situation as they were/are good Soldiers and represented the uniform in a professional manner and no longer had any affiliation with any gangs.

Response by SGT Eric Vazquez made Jul 8 at 2016 9:39 PM

SGT Eric Vazquez — Fri, 08 Jul 2016 21:39:32 -0400

good to go warning + time what more could you ask

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2016 6:29 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 06:29:25 -0400

You should it report inmediately instead of exposing yourself

Response by PFC Vicky Lynn made Jul 9 at 2016 11:19 AM

PFC Vicky Lynn — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 11:19:43 -0400

I had a friend from there, but he didn't acknowledge any affiliation with gangs. He was highly intelligent, he also didn't talk about his past living there either in Compton.

Response by SPC Andrew Quinn made Jul 9 at 2016 2:36 PM

SPC Andrew Quinn — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 14:36:32 -0400

We need to weed out the scum and protect the men that give honor to the uniform

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2016 7:07 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 19:07:44 -0400

Do Army personnel not take people out behind the woodshed anymore? Or take him on a run until he pukes? I mean there are an ass ton of tools at your disposal. Pushing it off on someone else is kind of sad. 'OMG Gang so scared" Is that how they train soldiers these days?

Response by SFC Roc Holland made Jul 9 at 2016 8:38 PM

SFC Roc Holland — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:38:29 -0400

Were you facebook stalking or had he sent you a friend request? If no friend request then I would question why you were on that soldiers page? If a request was made then I say you were good.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2016 11:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Jul 2016 23:31:16 -0400

Weed out the crap bags and the wana bees

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2016 6:40 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:40:35 -0400

Was he in your unit? Because if he wasn't and you were just trolling seems like U might have been wasting your time. Freedom of speech goes pretty far in America and there's no way U can prove this guy is actually in a gang... Seen plenty of people throw up gang signs jokingly for photos etc

Response by Cpl Danny Conniff made Jul 10 at 2016 6:54 PM

Cpl Danny Conniff — Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:54:33 -0400

He represents the U.S.A. and not the Crips.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2016 6:27 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 06:27:54 -0400

I've had a few true gang members who I've worked with over the years. And in almost every case they turned out to be great Soldiers who were thankful for the oppratunity to change their lives. If they talked about it, it was a story of how you can turn your life around and about making choices. Those guys are loyal and great leaders. I respect them. The problems are the wantabes. This kids don't understand why people join the gangs or what being in a gang means. They thinks it's a social choice and not about survival. As a team we would call mom and dad. Introducing them to real gang members work. If they don't get it turn them in to MPs, CID, etc. I had a suburban kid claim MS13. He got caught doing some stupid stuff. We asked if he was sure, he said he was MS13. So he got turned over to CID. He wasn't. He got chaptered out.

Response by SPC Tom Walsh made Jul 11 at 2016 9:15 AM

SPC Tom Walsh — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 09:15:17 -0400

If there is a gap between your handling and perfect, it is VERY narrow.
Your action plan is pretty much the plan I would have taken.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2016 11:02 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 11:02:16 -0400

As far as this goes, you did the right thing. Flashing gang signs and posting gang related posts has no business in the USAR. But this does remind me of an instance with the NM National Guard in Kuwait (I believe). I wasn't part of the unit that was targeted but some guy from a different states Guard unit saw a bunch of Hispanics with tattoos and somehow thought those tattoos were gang related and reported them. They had the whole unit strip down to their shorts only to find that none of them had any gang related tattoos. It was really embarrassing for all SMs involved. So the moral is, don't base a decision solely on a tattoo(s) that you may not really know what it means.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 11 at 2016 12:48 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 12:48:57 -0400

You can know that you did what you could should this person leave the Army and then shoot some police officers...

Response by TSgt David Brown made Jul 11 at 2016 5:44 PM

TSgt David Brown — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 17:44:12 -0400

I have heard about gang members joining the military so they can get weapons training to take back to the streets. Never sure anymore. Things have changed since back in my day. We took care of things off the record in those days.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jul 12 at 2016 1:11 AM

CPT Robert Boshears — Tue, 12 Jul 2016 01:11:47 -0400

You were in a very difficult situation. Some gang members join the military for the training to take back to the streets. If my memory is correct, there was a Lt. Comdr. (I think a pilot), stationed at Lemoore NAS...he was also a member of an outlaw biker gang involved in the sale of drugs. This soldier needed a severe intervention.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made Jul 12 at 2016 9:43 AM

SSG Brian Kresge — Tue, 12 Jul 2016 09:43:46 -0400

You never know. If he were displaying KKK or White Nationalist stuff, the reaction would have to be the same.
Unfortunately, social media puts leaders in a different space than 20 years ago. For a service member to be meaningfully engaged in an unauthorized affiliation, it required movement of feet and attending of events. Nowadays, you take a couple of pictures, like a few pages on Facebook, and abracadabra, you're a part of a hate group. It's both more and less alarming. More, in that it's easier to affiliate and identify with problem groups...less, because you have to wonder what that even really means.
Thankfully, we have the mechanisms to report this so we don't have to make the judgment call. From a "good order and discipline" perspective, if it smells like a problem, it probably is. All we have to do is report, let them investigate, and command can make the determination.

Response by Sgt William Themann made Jul 12 at 2016 10:35 AM

Sgt William Themann — Tue, 12 Jul 2016 10:35:35 -0400

No clue. I didn't serve in the PC Military of today! 82-86. They are outlawing full sleeve tats? Or all tats that show? We had dorm rats and could smoke in our rooms. People in today's military would faint if they knew what we did back then.
I guess what I'm getting at is I'm no judge of what you did.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2016 4:05 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:05:20 -0400

You didn't have to be a blue falcon about it. Let people f* up on their own. You're a specialist, fall back and enjoy the mafia life.

Response by SGT Matthew Schenkenfelder made Aug 30 at 2016 11:47 AM

SGT Matthew Schenkenfelder — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 11:47:29 -0400

Your actions were honorable. You did what was right regardless of adversity or outcome. Especially in today's Army most people tend to gloss over everything and when something arises they push it to the back burner and ignore it. They don't want to handle it their selves or they hope that it will go away on it's own.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Apr 18 at 2017 2:23 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:23:37 -0400

Apparently CID handled it. If they need you they will reach ut and touch you

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Jul 18 at 2018 1:20 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 13:20:52 -0400

Is/was he a good troop otherwise?

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jul 18 at 2018 5:37 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 17:37:26 -0400

And he's still in the military?

Response by SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott made Jul 19 at 2018 5:27 PM

SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott — Thu, 19 Jul 2018 17:27:52 -0400

You did it exctly the way you should have. Tried to give the guy a break by allowing him to take the correction and fix the problem himself. He chose not to so you did what had to be done. I commend you for it!!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 10 at 2018 6:55 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 06:55:24 -0400

Done!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2019 1:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:03:58 -0500

If you've never been in a gang yourself, you should have consulted a "leader" that has been. In his mind, you two had nothing to talk about.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2019 1:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 13:52:20 -0500

Gang infiltration of the US Armed Forces is nothing new. The least you can do is report it to CID, S2/G2, or Company 1st Sgt. There is no room in our brotherhood for those with skewed allegiances.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2019 8:51 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 20:51:37 -0500

You did the right thing. You identified the indications of gang affiliation, informed the Soldier that he needed to correct his behavior, and reported him to the proper authority when he failed to correct. Good job.

Response by SPC Charles Summers made Jan 7 at 2019 9:07 PM

SPC Charles Summers — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 21:07:53 -0500

You did the right thing. I'm from Compton, California. Had he been allowed to continue, he would have corrupted every black man in the Company. Had he completed his training, he would have made his Hometown a War Zone. No need for those types, in the Military.... I support your actions.

Response by LCpl Wesley Hall made Jan 7 at 2019 11:49 PM

LCpl Wesley Hall — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 23:49:48 -0500

Absolutely correct

Response by MSG Thomas Nelson made Jan 8 at 2019 8:50 AM

MSG Thomas Nelson — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 08:50:35 -0500

Sounds like you initiated the corrective steps properly, however, what I noticed that was absent in your message was your face to face discussion on the issue. Media time stamps are a good check in determining if the message was viewed, but no guarantee that "he" was the one to view it at that time. Most times, those tough conversations, done properly, can resolve issues before they become problems.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 2:36 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 14:36:43 -0500

You always start at lowest level. Confront soldier first. If behavior continues then take it further.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Jan 8 at 2019 3:09 PM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 15:09:16 -0500

Gang affiliation, do you mean the USARMY? If not you have a battalion formation and beat him, his family, and shoot his dog

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 4:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 16:50:08 -0500

There is no place in the Military for gangbangers, anyone who wants to be a “gangsta” should keep their criminal affiliation out of the Armed Forces, we are not rehabilitation institutions!

Response by SMSgt Ken Propes made Jan 8 at 2019 6:22 PM

SMSgt Ken Propes — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 18:22:11 -0500

CID would of been my first contact. I would not of contacted the member.

Response by PV2 Jordan Taylor made Jan 8 at 2019 8:01 PM

PV2 Jordan Taylor — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 20:01:03 -0500

You are a snitch ass little b**** for reporting something as harmless as hand signals. In my unit, you would have received a blanket party for that. Go f*** yourself if that's how you treat a fellow SM. You don't rat on your brothers no matter what. More so if you're his NCO. What kind of p**** a** little b****** are putting on the uniform these days?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2019 2:07 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 02:07:54 -0500

Anybody voting that he handled it wrong are part of the problem. To ignore his outward and public gang affiliation is a dereliction of your duties and responsibility to your fellow service members, regardless of your rank or the piece of trash gang members rank. Want to be a gang banger then stay a civilian.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2019 12:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 12:46:22 -0500

DODI 5500.07 covers behavior on social media. You did the right thing by trying the direct route first. The soldier is not allowed to be affiliated with extremeist groups or express sympathy to the same.

Response by PO2 Seth Carron made Jan 9 at 2019 12:47 PM

PO2 Seth Carron — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 12:47:01 -0500

Sending that to the authorities was the right thing to do. The last thing you need is a gang member in your chain of command. tlThat'll cause nothing but problems.

Response by PO3 Wyatt Hensley made Jan 9 at 2019 7:04 PM

PO3 Wyatt Hensley — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:04:58 -0500

Snitching bitch

Response by PFC Glen Dobbs made Jan 9 at 2019 7:50 PM

PFC Glen Dobbs — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 19:50:36 -0500

No gangs in the armed services , only soldiers

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2019 10:32 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:32:39 -0500

That’s not a gang sign, he’s using his fingers to make the rank of lance corporal, almost all lance corporals know this.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2019 10:43 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:43:38 -0500

Here is the issue with todays society, gangs, drug use and being a thug is cool. Today the best way to handle these kids is with a conversation starting with "if you are so proud of gang banging why did you join the Army?" Make them think about what they ran away from and how successful they can be. You will never convince a person raised in a gang society that banging is wrong because to them it's normal. Being a leader today is challenging, you have to be able to think outside of the box.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2019 3:29 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 15:29:10 -0500

I think you went beyond what is called for by advising the soldier directly of the violation and counseling him about the necessary corrective actions. Well done, Specialist.

Response by SGT James Taylor made Jan 10 at 2019 3:32 PM

SGT James Taylor — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 15:32:07 -0500

I belonged to a gang. It was called the U.S Army. And they took their orders from the CIC.

Response by SSG Ron McLane made Jan 10 at 2019 6:31 PM

SSG Ron McLane — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 18:31:08 -0500

Adorn the uniform walk the walk

Response by SFC Oliver Garnett-Young made Jan 11 at 2019 8:32 AM

SFC Oliver Garnett-Young — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:32:43 -0500

You should have grabbed your cojones and addressed the situation personally with the individual in question. Explain the policy that was violated and implement consequences for it. That no-nuts e-leadership is very ineffective.

Response by Robert Janisse made Feb 15 at 2019 12:36 PM

Robert Janisse — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 12:36:47 -0500

Think of it this way. It would be like being a cop and a gang member at the same time.

The military is the biggest, most powerful, "gang" in the country. (and with all the best toys!)
What gang would allow you to be a member of 2 gangs at same time? And with completely opposing objectives.

Response by SGT Anthony Smith made Apr 7 at 2019 2:49 AM

SGT Anthony Smith — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 02:49:45 -0400

One of the army 318 articles has it

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2019 7:27 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 07:27:48 -0400

I would have advised the same, my only concern would be possible retaliation and your safety.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jul 11 at 2019 11:41 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:41:16 -0400

Definitely did the right thing.