How do I deal with a leader who shows no concern/welfare/empathy for his soldiers, while avoiding retaliation?

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 03:28:05 -0500

I currently have a team leader who when we first met after I got back from the cavalry scouts that I should take on more leadership. However, I have been cut below the knee constantly when trying to assert some form of leadership. He states one thing, but does something else. He does not try and get to know his men. I had a soldier who went to me instead of his line leader when he was showing signs of depression and possibly suicidal thoughts. I also experienced this where I couldn't trust him to tell him about my issues that is affecting my personal health. Yet, he states that he is basically a "gate-keeper" that we should talk to him first. How can a soldier talk to a leader about issues when it seems that he shows lack to concern for the welfare of that individual and empathy. Furthermore, public humiliation only hardens the soldiers distrust and anger towards that leader. I have been under many leaders where if they showed they cared that I would put out 110 percent and even go to hell and back for that individual to make them look good in front of higher chain of command. Loyalty a big thing for me. With the way things are with him, how can I confront him without the risk of retaliation? He only cares about going back to his previous unit as he does not like the current one he is in. It shows where his mind is at the moment. I am by no means the best soldier that would be put up for the best warrior competition. However, as I have said, I will go out of my way for a leader who takes care of welfare and happiness of his subordinates. In addition, by no means am I incompetent in terms of my ability to perform within my mos. It has caused me to be stressed out on top of current health issues and whether I want to re-enlist when the time comes up. I would appreciate from your experience and what knowledge you can provide. Thank you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2018 3:39 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 03:39:09 -0500

Report it up your CoC ASAP! The military, especially the Army, has no time or need for poor leadership. That kind of environment is the first part of why many soldiers feel lost and alone. It’s easy to start thinking that, if your leadership doesn’t care about me, then no one will. It’s a feeling no military member should ever have. Besides, we know for a fact he has been given plenty of leadership training to know better!

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jan 13 at 2018 5:29 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 05:29:31 -0500

Use your chain of command, and let them know that you are doing this for the good of the unit. Toxic leaders cause toxic followers.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2018 11:10 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:10:06 -0500

First of all, good on you for recognizing that there is a problem. I regret to say that some soldiers are not cut out to be leaders. Despite what we've been trained for, an individual is just that. Rank is probably an issue here, but nevertheless, I would have a heart-to-heart over lunch about this. Get to know them. there might be factors in his/her own life that distract them from being a good leader. While this isn't an excuse, it's certainly something to merit for motivating them into becoming what their soldiers expect them to be. SGT Gessner hit it on the head with "no time and no room" for that leadership, but I'd like to add that poor leaders can ALWAYS be presented with the opportunity to turn themselves around. I've sat down with a SGT who was not a leader and he has drastically improved his outlook. Whatever you do, do it respectfully, and with the welfare of the soldiers in mind, not the correction of the leader. Hope it helps.
Essayons.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jan 13 at 2018 11:18 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:18:38 -0500

1. Try a heart to heart talk with him, politely find where he is coming from. 2. If that doesn't work, then have the same style talk with your squad leader over your concerns with the TL. 3, If that doesn't help then approach your PSG carefully. If this TL i being toxic it needs to be brought up to the NCO chain, so they can correct or report it higher.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jan 13 at 2018 4:01 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 16:01:16 -0500

Davis, what you are saying is that you are facing an enemy that has gained a position of respect in your unit, and you believe that your chain of command is not aware of this behavior, that for that reasons you fear that if you approach your chain of command through the OPEN DOOR policy to report your concerns which if he is indeed bad mouthing your unit and affecting moral. I will advise you, because I have been in your boots, and the reality is that life is presenting you with a military life learning opportunity that forces you to face your fears by using the OPEN DOOR, or not using it, and you let this enemy harm your unit. As a company commander I was very graceful for soldiers that faced their fears and came to me with similar issues.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 14 at 2018 12:53 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 00:53:29 -0500

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member Focus on what you can control, and don't lose sleep over what you can't.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2018 1:14 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 01:14:19 -0500

One suggestion would be for you and a battle buddy who shares similar feelings go and address these things with the team leader. Don't mention names or anything he can use to identify a specific solider(s). If he dismisses your concerns then go up the CoC.

Another suggestion, since I do not know this leader as well as you, just go up the CoC. If multiple soldiers do not feel confident with his abilities as a leader, then there is a serious issue here.

Response by SSG Mark Tsunokai made Jan 18 at 2018 6:04 PM

SSG Mark Tsunokai — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 18:04:05 -0500

Toxic Leadership is alive and well. It's just like "cancer." I wished I would of known what to do, because I would of never retired in the first place.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Reese made Jan 18 at 2018 6:39 PM

SPC Jeffrey Reese — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 18:39:09 -0500

My first suggestion is documentation make notes dates and times you observe the occurrences and specifically what the occurrence was. That way when you do take it up the chain you have specific points to bring up and if possible have others that observed the issues initial that they observed the incidents. But always when dealing with Higher ranking individuals have your ducks in a row and documentation is always recommended. CYA is your mantra!

Response by SPC Zach Lockhart made Jan 18 at 2018 9:23 PM

SPC Zach Lockhart — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 21:23:14 -0500

90% of my command didn't care about us. I once asked a Colonel while I was still in ROTC what the Army's biggest problem is. He said leadership. He was absolutely correct.

Response by SPC Nicholas Bettinger made Jan 19 at 2018 6:11 AM

SPC Nicholas Bettinger — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 06:11:00 -0500

Incompetent leaders is why 75% of soldiers E-4 and below would rather Ets!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2018 8:22 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 08:22:19 -0500

I recently had to report a senior officer for similar type behavior. I had never had a bad O6 in my military career. After doing some digging I learned this kind of behavior had been going on for years. The sooner it is reported either through the chain of command or IG the better.

Response by SGT Leslie Robinson made Jan 19 at 2018 9:24 AM

SGT Leslie Robinson — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 09:24:20 -0500

Apply pressure with your boot as you pull on his shoulders when u hear a loud pop that will be his head coming out of his ass...need to do whatever is necessary to get rid of that cancer..toxic leaders should be sweeping the motor pool..

Response by Sgt David Hesser made Jan 19 at 2018 9:41 AM

Sgt David Hesser — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 09:41:07 -0500

First I am a little confused by your statement , are you worried about your own position or your troops, true leaders lead by example how are your troops ever going to know you have their back if you don’t display it, it looks to me you are looking for a leader and I think you need to be the leader, now I have been out of the Marines for a long time but I promise you that you did not mess with my men and I stepped in between many a jr officer and my men telling them to chew me out instead because if my men failed it meant I failed as their leader. Don’t look for a leader be the leader, the best people I met in all branch’s of service where willing to put it on the line to accomplish thier mission.

Response by Sgt Tee Organ made Jan 19 at 2018 9:54 AM

Sgt Tee Organ — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 09:54:29 -0500

This is a tough one, I have had similar experiences like this and for me it was a hit or miss issue. If what your troop is going through is in your best opinion serious enough to warrant immediate attention, I suggest you help him work laterally within the network chain to get this resolved. You have a first Sgt? In the Marines, we had a company 1st that would handle mostly barracks issues but was a great networking tool as well we could go to them to help with things like this. Another tool is a support element, Family resources, chaplain, legal etc, whatever tapped the issue at hand. I had a Sailor that was having severe personal problems and since we were at sea, he was unable to just go and fix them. He confided to me he was in an incredibly dark place and I knew this had been going on for a while without any relief. I set up a meeting with the Chaplain and he was able to get him where he could function with some clarity, and also helped him fix some of the issues he was not getting done via normal channels. My Chief found out about it and tried to reprimand me for it, but I had told him Look he's working directly under me and I don't want a Sailor hanging in the magazine because a chief felt that Sailor was just trying to get out of work. I knew better because this Sailor was working for me and doing a good job. Caused issues for me later but hey, I was looking at retiring anyway and helping a good Sailor like that was worth an ass chewing. A lot of times a leader don't want to do too much because it might make them look like they have no control.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2018 6:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Jan 2018 18:11:13 -0500

I know this NCO personally. I find a bit disconcerting that you do not have the personel courage to address the situation in a less public indirect approach. There are many options available to you besides putting a NCO who you “think” doesn’t meet the cut. SPC Davis, I have met A LOT of soldiers who do
Not meet the cut. However I do my best to resolve the situation without causing embarrassment to the soldier or unit. Also I would like to point out to the group that this is one perspective on an issue. There are always three sides in my experience, SPC davis’s, the NCO, and then the truth.

Response by SPC Nicholas Bettinger made Jan 20 at 2018 7:32 PM

SPC Nicholas Bettinger — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 19:32:03 -0500

Talk to your chain of command, call I.g, talk to your chaplin, the open door policy, use it! Let them know you're not getting the assistance you need!

Response by SGT Aaron Atwood made May 28 at 2018 9:45 PM

SGT Aaron Atwood — Mon, 28 May 2018 21:45:52 -0400

Don't worry about retaliation, and don't let your experience in the Army be ruined by one bad leader. Explain the situation to your chain, and stick-to-the-facts. Get everything you can in writing. As in the civilian world: if it wasn't written down it never happened. Doing what's right always outweighs the risk of retaliation.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Jul 11 at 2018 6:30 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:30:40 -0400

Had junior officers on field training and when cc mess call sounded, I found them at the head of the mess line. So, tactfully, I can called them out and ordered they serve the troops in order to get to know them better. The first shall be last valuable lesson for them

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Jul 11 at 2018 6:32 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 18:32:30 -0400

Agreed. If commission OER will eventually weed him out