How do I go about putting a soldier out, when everyone starts to notice the soldier faking and no one wants to do anything about it?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 01:03:39 -0400

Their a PFC in my platoon the platoon Sgt know about him malingering on pt test getting profiles the day before, the last pt test he had to take in the push-up event he " injured his shoulder " after 6 push-ups and go to the TMC and they gave him motrin and a sling every day at work I and others will see him with the sling on as soon as he get off I and the other soldiers won't see him in the sling until 0630 pt formation the next morning he also picking and choosing which details he wants to do, and I talk to his team leader and squad leader I was told it will be handle, but the situation isn't handle. Should I step on his squad leader and team leader toe and get on the soldier? Also this PFC think since he smokes with NCOs he's a NCO.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 1:20 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 01:20:59 -0400

Talk to your squad leader and platoon leader. This is demoralizing and generally bad for unit cohesion.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jul 28 at 2016 1:23 AM

SSG Trevor S. — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 01:23:13 -0400

If you're not in his leadership chain monitor it for effect on your troops but otherwise stay in your lane. If you see significant evidence that it is effecting your troops' moral, take it to the PSG or 1SG with documented info to back you up.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 3:22 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 03:22:32 -0400

I would talk to medical. If his doctor told him to wear a splint, he is required to wear that splint all day, not just on duty. If he disobeys his profile, he disobeys a direct order. This could easily prove malingering and subject him to administrative action with the help of his CoC. The fact that multiple people have seen him out of it off duty is just ammunition in your arsenal.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 4:12 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 04:12:07 -0400

Medic here, lots of experience with this type of situation.

Odds are, this kid's doctors and medics are just as pissed about his malingering as you are--if not more so. Remember, we're the ones who have to sit and listen to people like him lie through their teeth about how bad their pain is. But unfortunately, we are beholden to modern medical standards, in which we err on the side of caution and assume our patients always tell the truth to the best of their ability. It almost never happens (why lie to your doctor? Seriously, people) but we operate that way regardless.

This means that when a kid like that shows up whining about how he "injured" his arm six push-ups into an APFT, we HAVE to assume he's being truthful, and treat it accordingly (hence the splint/sling). The silver lining here is that the new profile system tracks how many days per year soldiers are on a temporary profile. Any temp profile longer than 14 days gets flagged as MRC4 (non-deployable until rectified). Additionally, commanders now have visibility of all profiles within their company through the e-profile system. No more hiding under the radar.

My advice to you is this: collect sworn statements. If this guy is clearly malingering, other people have seen it. Ask them to write a sworn statement about what they saw or heard. Is he adhering to his medical profile? Is he engaging in activities that should clearly aggravate his injury (bowling, sports, etc)?. It's a pain in the ass to do, but when this joker eventually tries to MEB out (trust me, that's his end goal), you'll have loads of evidence to either chapter him for malingering, or at least force him to ETS without MEB.

Good luck, and may the Hooah be with you, SGT.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 6:30 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 06:30:50 -0400

Best course of action, and I doubt anyone will disagree with me. Is to address the concern to that SMs 1st line supervisor, or level that your rank can handle. Let them know how it is affecting your soldiers, and let them know that they need to put an end to it, or you will have to step "out of your lane" to ensure that you eliminate this negativity in your plt/co
If not, best bet is to utilize open door with that soldiers psg/1sg. Use tact, be respectful, but also direct with the issue.

If that leader is ok with having this soldier do what he's doing, then they are failing as leaders.

Good luck!

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jul 28 at 2016 6:57 AM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 06:57:32 -0400

HOOAH! When you fail to enforce standards, you essentially are part of what creates substandard performers. You have the authority to counsel the Soldier, just give the immediate leadership a heads up (and copy) of the counseling. If the immediate leadership continues to take a passive approach then I suggest you elevate it to your Platoon Sergeant and ask for an open door opportunity with your 1SG (bring that original counseling statement(s)) to address the concerns and let the 1SG share the concern from the 1SG perspective.

I am glad you are operating with your eyes wide open!

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jul 28 at 2016 9:50 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 09:50:32 -0400

Professional ethical behavior , standards and Esprit De Corps have no bounds... you and "they" are doing it right or not. As your observing someone do it wrong, it is YOUR LANE, so well done for keeping your eyes and mind open. .

That said, tread lightly, enforce the common standards absolutely but be careful about taking the first line supervisor role on another leader's SM. Assuming the BEST...perhaps that other leader knows things about that SM you do not as just a casual observer. Anything from multiply suicidal ideations that are known and believed, to a CID investigation that's ALLLLLmost complete and due justice will be seen soon enough. If it s a lazy leader that is the root cause of the SM substandard performance, that's something that usually takes care of itself by just doing YOUR job right. As a Company 1SG, it is EASILY observed who is doing it well, and who is not..and those that are not doing it right will likley try and bring themselves and thier subordinates up to a level that surrounds them, if for no other reason it is the path of least resistance.

Observe directly, counsel as needed, work with your peers, if no effect, your peers supervisors, if no effect. the company 1SG.

Response by SFC(P) Tobias M. made Jul 28 at 2016 12:20 PM

SFC(P) Tobias M. — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:20:48 -0400

First you will need to stay in your lane. If you jump on this service members squad leaders toes you will just cause problems. Also what you can do is make sure that you are taking notes of every time you see him without his sling as this is breaking his profile. If you can take pictures of if. This is proof that he is breaking his profile. As SSG Smith said if this is effecting your troops then you need to take all the proof that you have to the PGS as he is next in your chain unless you have a squad leader. If you are just a team leader then you will need to go to your squad leader and have him address it with the PSG. You know how the open door policy works. If you don't get the answers your looking for from your squad leader then go to the PSG and so on and so forth. I hope that this helps.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 12:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:52:16 -0400

counsel, counsel, counsel, counsel, and counsel again, and after that soldier has received enough negative counselings, submit those counselings to your chain of command, things will start to happen , from there.

Response by SFC Roberto Garza Jr. made Jul 28 at 2016 12:56 PM

SFC Roberto Garza Jr. — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:56:15 -0400

He is a soldier in your platoon, guess what he is your soldier. His actions directly impact the platoon. As a leader you must enforce the standards on all soldiers. Talk to his first line and address the issue. If his first line fails to counsel or make corrective recommendations adress it to the platoon sergeant and explain to him how you feel this soldiers actions are negatively impacting the good order and discipline of the platoon. Tell the platoon sergeant you are going to counsel this soldier., however, have your ducks in a row prior to engaging in this battle. Malingering is tough to prove. You need to have well documented information with supporting statements from the medical personnel stating this soldier is faking it. Your in a tough spot. But my recommendation is to ensure he is counseled on everything positive or negative, before you know it you will have a packet on this individual. Goodluck SGT, thanks for carrying the standards and discipline torch, not seen much today. If you need further advice. Message me, but the bottom line is use your chain if comas and bring the issue to the forefront, they will catch on.

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Jul 28 at 2016 12:56 PM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:56:51 -0400

From your shoes engage the appropriate leadership. I saw this multiple times as a commander and the inventive fix was a bar to reenlistment and subsequent chapter. You may not be able to stop him from seeking profiles, but the commander can chapter him for the failure to overcome the bar. If he cannot take his APFT, he cannot attend his PME, and that is all the justicication needed for a bar to reenlistment. You'll push more Soldiers into the IDES process by doing this, but you just sped up the process for a non-deployable SM riding your books.

Response by SSG Jeremy Sharp made Jul 28 at 2016 1:05 PM

SSG Jeremy Sharp — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:05:49 -0400

Unfortunately, you are bound by the chain of command. If you are not in his, you are placing yourself at risk by addressing the soldier on his short comings. As an NCO you do have the responsibility to reinforce the chain of command. That having been said, what is your motivation for taking such interest in this soldier and his malingering behavior. Is it having a negative impact on your soldiers by them seeing his pattern of behavior and not performing up to to their potential. If that is the case than you should address your concerns to the unit 1SG as unit morale is his primary concern. If it is just you don't like the faker then leave it with his chain of command team leader/squad leader/platoon sergeant. They have a job to do and maybe they are laying the framework and paper trail to resolve the issue, unbeknownst to you. If you "step on his leaderships toes" you may be the one in the 1SG's office explaining your actions. Until it directly effects your ability do accomplish your mission or those that are directly subordinate to you then it is not in your wheelhouse. When it does, don't mince words, go directly to the 1SG with facts, examples and documentation. As far as him smoking and joking with NCO's you don't have to fall prey to that game. You can address that issue at the appropriate time by addressing him by his rank and name and reminding him that he is not an NCO but only in an atmosphere that the familiarization is causing an issue with you directly. Don not go out of you way to provoke confrontation. I have found in the past, that these soldier's substandard behavior usually resolve themselves through the unwanted scrutiny of unit senior leadership. Good luck, no one likes a malingering fake!

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jul 28 at 2016 1:15 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:15:46 -0400

Malingering is very difficult to prove. Get everything in writing. Copies of profiles, try to talk to his doctors. His last APFT could be considered a failure because he did not complete it. If his profile say that he needs to always be wearing his sling, get some statement from people that have seen this Soldier not wearing it except when he comes in for PT/work. The main thing is you need to check the profile. I've had 6 shoulder surgeries and didn't always have to wear a sling, only at work or away from home. At home it was not required. Also, you kind of make it sound like you are not in the joes PLT. If not, you have pretty much done what you can by talking to the SL and TL. If you are not in the PLT, maybe have your PSG talk to his PSG.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 2:14 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 14:14:26 -0400

If you're not in his leadership chain, there isn't a lot you can do about him. I wouldn't get his leadership's business, as someday they may be your leadership and you don't need that. Just use Snuffy as a bad example for your troops.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 2:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 14:18:46 -0400

A lot of people will disagree with me but I really don't care. Do what you have to do! Counsel him. Corrective my train him. I've read all the comments on this and it disgust me. Almost everyone here say "Don't step on your peers toes" are what's wrong with the Army. They are making the NCO Corp weak! You have a duty to be the standard and to develop soliders that can handle anything. I believe in being the best and that's what I teach my soliders! Do the right thing and develop that solider. If your peers are weak, then that's where you come in and be the backbone that is needed. Be the best and you won't have to step on theirs toes because they won't be in your way!

Response by SFC William Trent made Jul 28 at 2016 2:20 PM

SFC William Trent — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 14:20:19 -0400

Here is my 2 cents. The PT Test is the easiest day of any normal PT. meaning your only doing 2 min of PU. 2 min of SU and a 2 mile run. That's less then half of a normal day at PT right ? How is this soldiers at normal PT ? Not taking the PT test will catch up to him. But until it does. Smoke the shit out of him during normal PT. then he will be happy to take the PT Test.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jul 28 at 2016 3:23 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:23:56 -0400

Ervin, call me Pedro team name, best is to chill and let the chain of command deal with this troubled soldier, you will only harm yourself by trying to push the issue. I see that your are pissed but don't pissed others as you deal with how you feel about this soldier.

Response by SPC Tommy Dean made Jul 28 at 2016 3:47 PM

SPC Tommy Dean — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:47:49 -0400

Blanket Party. I miss the good ole days.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Jul 28 at 2016 4:42 PM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:42:57 -0400

wow...Good luck...good advice already given from others.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 4:44 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:44:20 -0400

Malingering is probably one of the HARDEST infractions to document and punish. I have had many Soldiers faking the funk and the biggest thing you can do is document and talk to the medics or docs.

If the Soldier isn't under your direct leadership or influence then I would carefully observe and talk to his chain of command about specific instances like you saw him doing 20 push-ups with a friend over the weekend. Don't get frustrated with his current leadership, I am sure they are just as fed up as you about it. Faking the funk and malingering is a age old game played in the military. Soldiers do it day in and day out and even get to the MEB process and paid for it then go right out and act like nothing is wrong.

Engage your Soldiers about his actions and talk about the failure of his Army values and ethics. Turn the situation into a discussion and I think you will find that your Soldiers understand your point of view. If the discussion is productive and your Soldiers understand and agree with you chances are they will engage him about his lack of integrity, values, and ethics. Peer pressure can be a very motivating factor in the end.

Response by CW5 Jack Gaudet made Jul 28 at 2016 6:03 PM

CW5 Jack Gaudet — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:03:44 -0400

Are you a Squad Leader? Have him put into your squad if you are, then you have impact on the situation.

Response by SSG Ronald Colwell made Jul 28 at 2016 7:09 PM

SSG Ronald Colwell — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 19:09:13 -0400

First I would notify your Appropriate CoC, squad, platoon etc. if it's your troop, constantly council him documented, not verbal, after 3 or probably more, recommend him for either Art 15 and possibly seperation. I'm sure when the 1sg and commander gets that you have all the times and counselings to back up. Hope this helps,

Response by SFC Bruce Pettengill made Jul 28 at 2016 7:48 PM

SFC Bruce Pettengill — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 19:48:06 -0400

My answer to your question "Should I step on his squad leader and team leader toe and get on the soldier?" is this soldier in your direct chain of command? as he has a PLT SGT, SQD LDR, and TL. let them do their jobs. Keep track of your subordinates let others keep track of theirs. The only time I would get involved, if the PFC said or did something that disrespected YOU directly.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2016 4:10 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 04:10:32 -0400

Sounds like a pain in the ass SGT. Granted I'm not 100% on how NCO's deal with issues like this involving each other but from a Soldier to Soldier perspective maybe speak with his TL and SL about your issues with the PFC again and if it doesn't yield fruit perhaps there's a way to get him some form of punishment.

If he's cherry picking details he needs to be slapped with a crap one, and if he's still doing it after that... Well Art. 115 is a great way to get a year of confinement and a BCD. Not that I advocate NJP or CM's but maybe if he understood the gravity of the punishment that can be bestowed it would have some positive effect.

Good luck SGT, hope the PFC improves.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2016 12:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 12:59:57 -0400

What is he faking? How long has he been in? Is there something that just started to happen? And why has he done for everyone to feel that way towards him? The issue people have with him is it personal or professional? Has he received initial counseling? Monthly counselings? Event oriented counselings? Corrective training?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2016 8:55 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 20:55:06 -0400

Good morning sir, how are you doing today? No sir, you shouldn't step on anyone toes. Remember key parts of the NCO creed. As NCO's, you guys are suppose to communicate with each other when issues arise within the platoon. From what you mentioned, I see favoritism and the possibility that the PSG, Squad Leader and Team leader never had to deal with this malingering situation and don't know how to go about dealing with the situation. My advice to you is to calm down and don't stress over nothing. The Soldier is already flagged for failing APFT, which means he can't re enlist. Since you have to have some proof of malingering, the solid bet would be sworn statements from fellow soldiers who witness the act or pictures. As far as doctors go, they can only tell you so much due to HIPPA. I can almost guarantee you that this Soldier won't escape without burning himself.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 29 at 2016 9:00 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:00:50 -0400

Sometimes a good ass kicking is much better than a formal council, it's a language most guys understand. Shit details forever is an alternative, but the real problem is just a lack of pride, most guys don't like being called a pussy. Why he even there then? I just don't understand this stuff, back in the day the Sgt would discipline as he saw fit, or his squad mates, and no one would say a thing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2016 1:02 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 01:02:30 -0400

SGT Ervin Williams, this is how i would handle it: Go to the soldier and have him get his battle buddy. Ask to see his profile so that you can verify the conditions of it (this is your general authority as an NCO). After you've viewed it, make the "on-the-spot" correction. Give him a verbal counseling explaining why. Follow up. If you continue to observe the same trend in his behavior then document it on a DA 4856 and notify his TL/SL along with your SL. If his behavior continues, document it again and notify the PSG (CYA). In the event that this doesn't resolve the matter, document it once more and get the 1SG involved. Now you have created a paper trail to support your claims against the soldier. Us NCOs are not authorized to seperate a SM. It would take a BC or higher with the recommendation from the SM's CO. But you can surely recommend that seperation actions be initiated in your counseling and you will have a trail to support it. Always be sure to utilize your NCO support channel and provide copies of all counselings. Also sworn statements (DA 2823) should be provided. This matter should and needs to be squared away swiftly as it could affect your soldiers as well. It is a type of cancer that has to be cut out.

Response by SFC Tiffany Salling made Jul 30 at 2016 4:13 AM

SFC Tiffany Salling — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 04:13:08 -0400

For things like this you really have to follow chain of command, however document everything you see. If your going to step on toes to shut down something that should have been shut down already, then make sure you have your facts or its their word versus yours. Remember if you arenet getting results, keep climbing until you do.

Response by SGT Christopher J Christian made Jul 30 at 2016 12:50 PM

SGT Christopher J Christian — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 12:50:52 -0400

If I saw him off duty without the sling doing stuff that he shouldn't be doing, and then wearing sling on duty; I would call him out. Also, I'm sure the NCO's are aware of this. If they aren't addressing it then shame on them, because nonsense like this can bring morale down fast.

Response by SFC Steve Renner made Jul 30 at 2016 4:38 PM

SFC Steve Renner — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 16:38:48 -0400

Also....sometimes peer pressure can be a big motivator....Do his fellow troops realize that every time he is off shamming or not being effective, one or more of them is picking up his slack?....If his leadership is failing, pressure from another direction may help.

Response by SFC Domingo M. made Jul 30 at 2016 8:42 PM

SFC Domingo M. — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 20:42:34 -0400

Do your homework. Consistent counseling of the individual on paper and make sure there are two signature boxes on it. He should also be recommended for counseling by your 1SG. Eventually, he will qualify himself for a complete medical evaluation. That evaluation should prove one of two things, one, he is fit for service or two, he is physically unfit to perform those physical duties required by military standards. While on Drill Sergeant status, AR-635-200 served as my road map. Pay particular attention to Separation Codes para III. This is on the internet, just google the AR.

Response by SFC Daniel Helms made Aug 1 at 2016 1:28 AM

SFC Daniel Helms — Mon, 01 Aug 2016 01:28:21 -0400

I would never assume that a Soldier is faking an injury. Some injuries can not be diagnosed until they have got too a point obvious symptoms. I am not saying that this Soldier is a honest actor. Take my condition for example, I herniated the L5/S1 disk in my back in my first year of service. Initially, I suffered through massive bask spasms, which my leadership thought I was faking just because the TMC physician did not have a clue on how to diagnose a herniated disk in an early stage. The disk was finally detected 4 years later during a MRI, which showed that the disc caused damage to the 4 disc above it. I suffered through massive bouts of sciatica during the next 15 years of service (even while seeing in Iraq and Kuwait). While on my last duty assignment in Kuwait I started suffering from what appeared to be a torn ligament in my shoulder, which I found was three herniated disc in neck pinching on the spinal cord. Have the Soldier get a MRI on their should and neck. You never know. If they are really injured then they can be medically retired. Be a real leader and serve the Soldier even if turns out they were faking then you did your best.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2016 4:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Aug 2016 16:34:46 -0400

He's in your platoon, so I'm not sure about the structure of the plt that you're assigned, but if the problem is that bad and you feel motivated, then take it on. I'm sure the PSG would like the break.
You should talk directly to the PFC and find out what he thinks of the Army and pull the Soldier in tight to get them where they need to be. There is a reason and root cause of these actions that you don't agree with.
More then often, I've noticed, we don't know how to put someone out or if it requires it. It's time for you to become more engaged with the Soldier directly and just talk to them as a person and get to the root cause. Then if mission or life directs that the command "cut the waste" then someone should have a considerable packet built on them, so the Company Commander can say no to reup, if the Soldier tries.
If it's not criminal and no one is taking notes (counseling) then separation is not going to happen earlier then expected.
So get to know them, understand them, paradigm the behavior you don't like and make them want to be a successful Soldier; a steward of our profession.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Aug 2 at 2016 8:13 AM

PFC Tuan Trang — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 08:13:08 -0400

I would sit down and talk to the soldier to see what's going on.

Response by SGT James Colbert made Aug 2 at 2016 8:15 AM

SGT James Colbert — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 08:15:43 -0400

NCO Support Channel time to go tobthe 1SG if bot the 1SG the CSM

Response by SSG Jeff Carlisle-Tierno made Aug 2 at 2016 9:00 AM

SSG Jeff Carlisle-Tierno — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 09:00:45 -0400

If the Army hasn't changed in this regard, good luck. I remember they'd kick out an otherwise good soldier who couldn't meet height/weight in a second, yet would bend over backwards to do everything they could to 'salvage' a shitbag.

Response by SFC Malcolm Haugen made Aug 2 at 2016 9:33 AM

SFC Malcolm Haugen — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 09:33:06 -0400

When it is time for promotion, he can not be promoted. They can not prove physical ability to perform the duties of higher responsibility. Must be able to perform to go to schools. If you cannot attend schools or meet they physical requirement, there used to be something called "failure to progress". Basically this is grounds for QMP. He can be denied for reenlistment but I don't think it sounds as if they even want to stay in.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 10:45 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 10:45:04 -0400

No, you should have a discussion with his leadership privately. You don't know the details about the Soldier's medical condition, but he should not hang out with NCO's or disrespect non commissioned officers. General military authority allows you to act immediately in that situation. You should talk with your fellow non commissioned officers if you feel something is not right. If the leadership says that it will be handled, why would you not have patience and trust them? Did the squad leader and team leader give any reason to not believe this other than general observations?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 11:19 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 11:19:56 -0400

Have you brought it up to your Squad Leader, so that your SL can talk with the PFC in question Squad Leader.

You have already done your due dilligence, all you can do is monitor; and do not let your Soldiers model said behavior.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 11:28 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 11:28:55 -0400

If you haven't started yet, annotate everything in their monthly counseling and it their is hard evident that the soldier is malingering, the you can start Chapter procedure under Article 115 in the Uniform Code Of Military Justice. Also, we need to look at the PA that keep given this soldier a profiles.

SSG Johnson

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 1:08 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 13:08:08 -0400

First, do not confuse TMCs with specialty care. They are not specialists, normally. I have had soldiers treated by TMCs with Motrin and slings for months before finally referring to a specialty clinic.

Just because he's not wearing a sling or picking which detail he can do doesn't mean there isn't an injury. If you have a soldier with this kind of situation ensure he is asking the provider specific questions.
1 what's injured
2 how long for recovery
3 when will I talk to a specialist if injury lasts beyond recovery time.
4 etc.
Many soldiers do not know how to navigate the military medical system and serve with serious injuries that only get worse.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 1:23 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 13:23:16 -0400

If a Soldier is on any type of profile or limited duty the Medical Doctor should provide a profile with limitations if not the Soldiers should be sent back to the TMC/MD to provide the proper documentation. This avoids member getting injured and also protects you as his supervisor.
Also, suggest giving the member an APFT at the end of the day if he goes to TMC again consider getting the limitations of injury.
As far as a E 4 acting like an NCO believe somewhere leadership allows that to happen and in all services E-5 trumps/out ranks E-4 have a Army Day SGT

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 4:23 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 16:23:02 -0400

You seem conscientious, well meaning and have some integrity....so I am going to give you honest feedback. You need to clean up your correspondence. Conjugate your verbs according to person and tense. Your post is difficult to follow and if your written word isn't concise and cogent, your message will not receive the attention it may deserve because of how it is written. I'm not attacking your point---you have a valid one. Pay attention to your grammar. This is a professional forum and respect for each other as service men/women also means being honest. I mean no disrespect to you on this. I want to see you improve and succeed. We communicate in email far too much for your ideas to be sabotaged by poor syntax. We don't have to write like Harvard literary professors...but we do have to write like military professionals.

I dealt with the issue that you are by simply enforcing the profile that the SM gets and when the year mark goes by and there is no record APFT, you submit the flag and refer the Soldier's packet to S1 for a med board.

Since this is not your Soldier, you may simply talk to that Soldier's FL and educate him/her on this process. Arguing about faking and profiles is a waste of your time and energy. Give that energy to your other Soldiers and make sure that the ones who are there are ready to train.

Remember- a profile is a standing order, so enforce it. Also--according to 350-1 a yearly record APFT is also a requirement. Do your homework and when that time comes up, you have the counseling and flagging documents to make sure this Soldier is promoted to civilian.

DO NOT INJURE YOUR PROFESSIONAL ETHIC OR MILITARY REPUTATION BY STALKING THIS GUY OR GOING TO EXTRAORDINARY MEASURES TO "CATCH HIM." 350-1 requires the Soldier take part in recovery. Arm his FL with the proper way to deal with it and let the process go as it will.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 4:54 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 16:54:20 -0400

If you see the troop violating any profile that he has been issued by the TMC, you can write him up for that. Ensure that you state which articles of the USMJ the SM has violated and state that. Just ones that I would say would be violating a lawful order and 134.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 8:31 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 20:31:22 -0400

Video him with a smart phone I know y'all have one. Also stop being a bitch man up as an nco and do your job. Soldiers don't not have the power unless you are a weak ass nco. Assert your dominance earn your respect and pish in some ass to get these bullshit mellenial soldiers to do their jobs.

Response by SFC Orlando Threadgill made Aug 2 at 2016 10:08 PM

SFC Orlando Threadgill — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 22:08:18 -0400

Well the commander and 1SG can contact the PA to have him evaluate for fit for duty that the first step. If he goes to the TMC and comes back with a profile that's really nothing you can do but monitor the SM and counsel him to ensure that he understands that he must follow the guidelines within his profile and once you see him not following the guidelines you can counsel him for not following his profile. There are several ways to address this issue but making assumptions about malingering will only frustrate you more. Counseling is a lost art in the military with corrective training. I would counseling the SM and ensure that he adhere to the profile and counseling outline in his plan of action and conduct the follow up and if his behavior has not changed then you can move toward separating the SM from the army. That is how I will deal with the situation but once again I do not know the SM just giving advice from my perspective.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 11:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 23:04:30 -0400

I think this situation is getting out of hand. Monitor it and let it be. The guys that have to take up the slack will get tired of his laziness and fix it themselves unofficially and effectively. Teamwork is enforced and the men go on "record" as not tolerating slacking in the platoon or company. The company suffers; the company fixes it. There is nothing to be solved by bringing official (higher ups) attention to a company problem. He may not be faking injuries the next time. Simple but effective.
The view of an old dinosaur.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 11:11 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 23:11:35 -0400

I suggest looking at FM 7-22, Para A-37.

Basically if they become ill or get "injured" during an event and cannot achieve a passing score in the event, they are considered an APFT failure. All it takes is 2 consecutive failed APFTs.

Also, malingering is probably the hardest thing to prove.

Response by LTC Chad Uhl made Aug 3 at 2016 12:24 AM

LTC Chad Uhl — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 00:24:22 -0400

If he takes an A PFT and is injured, he still fails a record. If he fails two, he can be chaptered, regardless of profile. If given the next APFT after his prifile expires.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 2:30 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 02:30:04 -0400

THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE A SITUATION LIKE THIS IS TO DOCUMENT THESE INCIDENTS ON YOUR UNIT'S INCIDENT REPORT FORMS AVAILABLE TO YOUR UNIT, AND AS YOU DOCUMENT THESE INCIDENTS BE SURE YOU MAKE COPIES FOR YOURSELF WHILE TURNING IN THE ORIGINALS TO YOUR PERSONNEL ADMINISTRATION COMMAND SUPERVISOR, ALSO VERY IMPORTANT TO FORWARD THESE INCIDENTS THRU YOUR CHAIN OF COMMAND, DOCUMENTATION IS THE ONLY WAY TO COVER YOUR COMPLAINTS WHILE ACCOMPLISHING THE OUTCOME OF A LEGITIMATE COMPLAINT. HOPEFULLY THIS ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AND BRING ABOUT A POSITIVE OUTCOME.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 5:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 05:32:19 -0400

We as NCO's do not put anyone out. We recommend only. This is a CoC function with your recommendation. You need to take it to the CoC and 1SG.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 6:46 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 06:46:19 -0400

Is he in your chain food, if so have you been documenting everything, i.e. initial counseling statements (What is spected from him) if all fails then you counsel the soldier for unsat participant or unsat performance.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 7:18 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 07:18:40 -0400

Repeated counselings on a Soldier for pt failures. After two failures you can start their chapter paperwork. As long as you have the counselings you can recommend separation to the company commander. Failure to adapt.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 8:45 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 08:45:34 -0400

Lots of great advice here, but I would add in one more thought, is there a possibility that maybe he needs a mentor? Someone to take this kid under their wing and "teach" him what right looks like if he is in fact malingering? Too often in this generation we as leaders fail to do this, and in turn, the Army is what ultimately pays the price.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 9:27 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 09:27:48 -0400

Do what you think is right if the platoon Sgt isn't doing his job step up and talk to the platoon leader. Had the similar situation when I was in put a big in the lt. Ear and it was handled

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Aug 3 at 2016 10:00 AM

LCpl Todd Houston — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 10:00:04 -0400

If you have already gone to his supervisors with no success, by all means stomp on their toes. They failed you. If you are still not comfortable you could inform your superior what you are about to do. This soldier obviously does not want to be part of the team and cant be trusted in deployment.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 1:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 13:21:16 -0400

First off you might want to read your post before you post it. I honestly don't even know what you are trying to say with how horrible your grammar/sentence structure is. You're an NCO in the United States Army, use professionalism even if its on an online forum.

Response by SSG Brandon Thrasher made Aug 3 at 2016 8:08 PM

SSG Brandon Thrasher — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 20:08:31 -0400

You need to request a medical assessment from the troop PCM and put every single infraction that he does on paper start logging a papertrail when you have enough counseling request at15 company level once you have 2 company grade 15s you can chapter

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 10:29 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 22:29:44 -0400

yes you need to step in if the Platoon Sergeant/Squad Leader don't uphold the Military Standard. Make sure that the Soldier follows his/her profile and keep track of when the profile comes off. The Soldier gets that much time to be ready for a Record APFT. It is not your responsibility to maintain every week it falls on the Soldiers. Talk to the Platoon Leader about this problem if the Platoon Sergeant doesn't want to follow through. Sounds like you are an Active Duty so you can pressure this Soldier and make sure that if you give him a counseling session. Make sure that you document every time you counsel this Soldier. This can be your leverage when time comes to discharge him.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2016 3:14 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 03:14:33 -0400

Well malingering is a pretty serious medical term. I recall one of our Doc's teaming an NCO regarding a Soldier malingering/not malingering.
Is anyone writing anything up? Providing feedback to the Soldier?

If his profile is steady then has anyone talked to the commander about referring him for MEB process?
With hard proof you can recommend everything, but the final call will be on that Commander.

Was the Soldier good at one time and then fizzled out? If so there could be underlying issues as to what's going on. Has anyone talked to the Soldier to find out what's going on, what their plan is?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2016 10:37 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 10:37:22 -0400

I would say make sure you know what his profile says just in case they only want him wearing the sling for a few hours a day. Also I would read AR 40-501 because they take about soldiers going on profiles multiple times for the same issue and how to go about getting them in front of a med board. Push come to shove he might get a lil bit of money but he will be out of the army.

Response by SSG James Sybers made Aug 5 at 2016 3:26 PM

SSG James Sybers — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 15:26:03 -0400

Annotate everything they do for a month along with counseling statements and submit to chain of command after all attempt have failed on your end to fix the substandard behavior.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Aug 6 at 2016 9:48 AM

SSG Mark Franzen — Sat, 06 Aug 2016 09:48:21 -0400

Well if that the type of soldiers we have theses days in military than it's time for them to be Chapterd out
Of the military for being unfit. The military has got so relaxed on Standards on there way of doing things it
Was never that way 42 plus years that when I was in. So if that's the Standards bring back the real military
They were tuffer and not a bunch sissy's.we were Army Tuff.

Response by SSG Eddie Montalvo made Aug 7 at 2016 1:22 AM

SSG Eddie Montalvo — Sun, 07 Aug 2016 01:22:56 -0400

Use your smart fone to document and or record circumstances. Insurance Companies do it why can't you. Back up every thing with evidence, from malingering to threats, to injuries. Always.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2016 1:53 AM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Aug 2016 01:53:24 -0400

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member definitely use your Chain of Command. Malingering is a very serious accusation and falls under the UCMJ - in fact it is court martial material. However, if a Soldier is in fact malingering, they do not belong in the military and are "stealing" from the American people. This Soldier needs to be reminded that he is in the military. Navy SEALs and Infantry Marines are living in the worst conditions, being shot, and going days without proper food, water, living conditions, and with broken bones - yet, it seems today's average troop exaggerate every little problem.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 12:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 12:33:38 -0400

Take note then call the PA

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 6:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 06:21:49 -0400

Document everything, you've got to build a paper trail.

Response by SSG David Bennett made Aug 25 at 2016 9:53 PM

SSG David Bennett — Thu, 25 Aug 2016 21:53:30 -0400

Oh hell no. I would bust that ass even though this is the kind and gentle military today. That crap don't fly. We came back from Afghanistan and had a or test. I was a grader and one of my Sgts under me. He had an ops SMG in his line. Afterwards he told me the CSM told him to write his time down after one mile and left. He did it. I lit him up. He said well SSG he's a SMG. I told him I didn't care if he was a general he would have been a no go at my station. Piss poor leadership prevents proper performance. Never forget lead by example. That boy needs a real mentor not somebody that's gonna drag him down when they fall

Response by SFC Ronald Burris made Sep 1 at 2016 12:30 AM

SFC Ronald Burris — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 00:30:45 -0400

First off you may want to check with the Dr and let the Dr know so He can do something to the PFC if he is not following the Dr's orders. He could rescind his order if he found out the PFC wasn't doing what he is supposed to be doing. Well, you could go over the squad and team leader IF you felt they aren't doing anything against this PFC when He is malingering. The First Sergeant should probably be talked to and let them know what is going on. Maybe the First Sergeant will light a fire under both Squad and team Leader.

Response by SGT Micheal Adams made Sep 7 at 2016 6:27 PM

SGT Micheal Adams — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 18:27:06 -0400

Light his ass up and his team leader and squad leader, light them all up. Each level is letting the other level down. If that kid can't do PT find something he can do during PT time. Stand at parade rest, make him flip the pt Mats between sets, make him show up In his dress uniform for first formation, when the change from p/u to s/u make home for get in his daily duty uniform, them before end of the run make home go to full on full battle rattle. Make him stand out side the barracks and count soldiers as they come in and out of the bld. CQ RUNNER. These things don't seem like much but I bet he gets the picture.

Response by SFC Craig Starr made Sep 13 at 2016 2:06 AM

SFC Craig Starr — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 02:06:46 -0400

Support the NCOs that he falls under. Professionally inquire on thier plan and time line to get the soldier up to standard as though you are learning from his example in case you have a similar troop some day. (You will). The profile system is soecific. They can't be given by a body and it can't be renewed without a tratment plan and proper diagnosis. Read the reg. Profiles are not valid until signed by the unit Doc and troop commander. They are a permanent document for the soldiers medical records and Smith file. It will come back to bite him because while he is non- current in PT he is not eligible for any favorable action. This includes, passes, college TA, awards, requested training and promotion to name a few. Read the REG. Show your fellow NCOs if they don't know. Help uphold the standard as a team,

I had a troop with a bone deficiency that legitimately injured him during almost every loaf bearing activity we did. Including PT tests. Others thought the same thing, he was malingering. I started to think so. I stayed on his medical appointments and ensured he was going on sick call. Almost 2 years later he was finally diagnosed and MEB'ed and was promoted to E-4 befor separation. If I wouldnt have stayed on him he would have lingered around for years. I combat deployment might have killed him, or worse.

He's doing OK as a civilian, VA disabled he went to school and Is an accountant.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Sep 13 at 2016 6:13 AM

CPT Tom Monahan — Tue, 13 Sep 2016 06:13:22 -0400

Use your NCO Support Channel. Talk with your Squad Leader and PLT SGT. Ask what you should do if you find yourself with a Soldier displaying this type of "milking it". You may be surprised and find out there is a legit issue. If they blow you off and your Soldiers are talking about it, consider talking with your 1SG. Remember, it's not about PFC Profile; it's all has to do with the unit.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2016 8:55 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Sep 2016 08:55:34 -0400

FYI. You maybe treading on light water.
what I mean by this; as always it's called a paper trail and if you are a NCO you should know this. It takes documentation. Unless, there are server circumstances.
His first line may already be gathering information, witnesses and statements.
There is a process an SOP which must be followed. The more you have the stronger you case.
But, by just going on having (and don't take this wrong) a hard-on for this soldier because you got butt-hurt and not having a file of documents i.e. Counseling statements, witness statements, Art 15's, and any other UCMJ's, and followed all SOP and Protocols which required action, you don't have a leg to stand on.
Okay... Yes, you maybe and NCO. But, you have got to have your fucks in a row and research the Army Regulations find what you are looking for study it make notes write up your recommendation based on your findings and only then take the next step by following your chain of command. And, I can't stress this enough but, you as a NCO should know about staying in your lane and following chain of command SOP.
So, to sum this all up in a short nutshell.
Stay in your land. (This is the new Army. Political Correctness. Remember this. Don't end up being a thorn in Cmds rear)
Follow SOP and Chain of Command.
Research what action you are going to recommend.
Have all your facts and pertinent information leading to back up what you're going to respesent.
Last but least. You can recommend. (But, don't take the glory away from upper echelon. They seem to get pissed when a subordinate tries to show them up or do their job.)
Note: It takes higher than a CO or BN to kick an one out. It has to go through a process where all the "t's and i's" are checked, double, checked, and triple checked before it can even be suggested for a blessing.

There's a lot more than wanting for just you as a lower NCO food channel to just say kick out a soldier because you say so.
There's a lot more and a lot of staff to include 100 and 1000's of man-hours
to any action in the military.
Others wise there would be a lotion NCO's and Officers booted out.
It's best to do your homework before tackling and chewing off a "BIG" chuck and end-up getting a black-eye
It's great to have initiative and being a hi speed soldier. But at the same time be careful whose toes you may be stepping on.
Good luck.

P.S. Sorry didn't mean to write a book. But trying to make sure I covered everything Because, I've been there, done that, and have the T-shirts. Wish I would of had a mentor when I was a young NCO going through the motions

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2016 2:56 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Sep 2016 02:56:29 -0400

This person is in your platoon and you're an NCO in this platoon. You have general military authority over this PFC to include everyone you out rank. If this PFC is malingering might be hard to prove, but if they are breaking their profile by not wearing their medical support brace that was issued by the TMC don't take hear say for proof - "take pictures and sworn statements" temporary profiles have to being sign by the doctor and CO if the soldier is breaking the profile take counsel them build a packet on every in fraction no matter how small and DON"T roll it up into 1 counseling make them separate - then submit for recommendation for ART15. you don't have to be their supervisor to do this but make sure you do the counseling's correctly and completely filled out - all you really need is three to show a pattern of misconduct.

Response by SSG Jason Allgood made Sep 21 at 2016 2:40 AM

SSG Jason Allgood — Wed, 21 Sep 2016 02:40:47 -0400

I wouldn't report to anyone. I would test the troop physically if you feel it's a honest issue. This can be handled in a candid manner. Throw em a drink if he's of age. What hand did he catch it with? What if we tried something slightly heavier, and at a different speed? Always throw to his weak side which would force them to use the weak arm. If it breaks whatever profile he has without them screaming in absolute pain. I would say that's enough for a valid case. If he can lift over 90lbs between both arms evenly he's faking it. For Motrin it's not a serious injury. At most a sprained muscle or a pulled muscle. It would have a deep purple color skin wise if pulled or worse. Consider it a bonding experience. Learn the person to learn the truth. When you have evidence with out question he's doing wrong. Leadership will have no choice but to listen. That's what you need and how. Make it happen.

Response by SFC Malcolm Haugen made Oct 5 at 2016 10:38 AM

SFC Malcolm Haugen — Wed, 05 Oct 2016 10:38:31 -0400

Document, Document, Document. This would make that soldier non deployable. Also may fall unable to complete physical requirement to maintain enlistment standards.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2016 5:10 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Oct 2016 05:10:08 -0400

You may have to talk to his medic about them. Although they are not allowed to give out any of his health care information, you maybe able to speak with the provider about your concerns and see what they recommend. Also he can not choose which details he would like to be on, the profile is not a get out of crappy details card. It is up to the commander if they would like to even abide by it, the profile is a recommendation not a right. If they continue to stay on a profile for an extended amount of time, they may be recommended for a medical evaluation board.
If it is an issue and other Soldiers see this, it ruins morale for the unit and encourages others to follow in their footsteps. If you do decide to address the Soldiers leadership, I would go to them as if you were "helping a fellow leader out". Most leaders do not like when other leaders "get in their lane". I would be respectful towards them and their position and let them know how you are perceiving this Soldier, we never know what is really going on with a Soldier unless we talk to them.

Response by SSG Michael Lougheed Jr. made Oct 17 at 2016 3:49 PM

SSG Michael Lougheed Jr. — Mon, 17 Oct 2016 15:49:34 -0400

Counsel them until you have enough for an article 15

Response by SFC Billy Huether made Nov 16 at 2016 9:46 AM

SFC Billy Huether — Wed, 16 Nov 2016 09:46:41 -0500

Extra training, within prescribed duty hours and it must match the infraction. Example: I had a Soldier that was chronically late. As the Section Sergeant, I told his team chief to fix him or I would fix them both. So, team chief fills 2ea 5 gal gas cans(Diesel cuz it's a little heavier than mogas) During TC's lunch hour, he walked and timed a route with 5 points. Soldier had to carry gas cans from one point to the next in the prescribed time. If Soldier didn't make the prescribed time, he started over at point number one. Needless to say, Soldier was never late again. If a Trooper screwed up, I would hold up a SkilCraft pen in one hand and a balled up fist. I then asked if they wanted paper or pain. The mostly took the pain of corrective training rather than a counseling statement.

Response by SFC David Sepeda made Nov 26 at 2016 8:16 PM

SFC David Sepeda — Sat, 26 Nov 2016 20:16:16 -0500

Also check AR 40-501. I'm sure in there somewhere it talks about medical readiness and the APFT is a requirement for standard medical readiness.

Response by SGT Jesse Marks made Dec 11 at 2016 9:43 PM

SGT Jesse Marks — Sun, 11 Dec 2016 21:43:29 -0500

Go to his chain directly and if they done deal with it then go to yours about the issue.

Response by SSG Gregory Robideau made Dec 22 at 2016 2:30 PM

SSG Gregory Robideau — Thu, 22 Dec 2016 14:30:13 -0500

Well your question is probably the bigger problem. Never in my entire 7+ years as a NCO had to "out a soldier out". Lead by example and mentor that soldier to meet and exceed the standard.

Response by SFC Jason Kerrick made Jan 2 at 2017 6:14 PM

SFC Jason Kerrick — Mon, 02 Jan 2017 18:14:05 -0500

I would ride his gold bricking ass all day long!!

Response by SGT Rodney Helms made Jan 23 at 2017 9:05 PM

SGT Rodney Helms — Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:05:14 -0500

Just keep everything in writing, (ie counseling statements. Since this am, isn't your soldier, it will be harder, his Squad leader will have to do it but you have to prove it to them unless they are doing something about it. Just talk to his Squad leader...

Response by SFC Ron Shaffer made Dec 19 at 2017 4:42 PM

SFC Ron Shaffer — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 16:42:08 -0500

In Germany I had a soldier that would get a profile for something lower body that I was sure was to get out of PT. He was shocked when he showed up one morning to hear I had talked to the doctor and he said it was ok for him to take part in upper body rifle drillls. After a week of smoking him that way, and seeing that doing regular PT with the platoon was the way to go, the trips to the aid station stopped.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Dec 19 at 2017 5:46 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:46:11 -0500

Are there no NCO's, seems he has a motivation problem

Response by SFC Wayne T made Feb 2 at 2018 9:03 AM

SFC Wayne T — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 09:03:38 -0500

Not sure if your a E-5 or a E-0? This troop is a PFC? And you the NCO is letting this happen. Crush this kids dreams and send him back to the block.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2018 11:07 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:07:58 -0500

In my experience, malingering is one of the absolute hardest things to prove and get someone out based on that...I don't know how many times I've seen it or how many times even the 1SG had seen it with Soldiers, even a SSG, and still could not do anything about it because legal said it wasn't enough, or they just didn't want to do the work. Either way, in ten years I have seen multiple attempts on numerous occasions and all had failed.

Response by SSG Arthur Gonzales made Mar 10 at 2018 11:34 PM

SSG Arthur Gonzales — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 23:34:49 -0500

Sounds like you have some POS NCO,s for allowing it.

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Dec 14 at 2018 9:46 PM

SGT Robert Andrews — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 21:46:48 -0500

Ok if a soldier received a sling knee brace or any other medical device they are supposed to be using that on and off duty. Otherwise they break the profile there are ucmj consequences for that. The government pays the medical bill therefore the regulations are in place for non compliance.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 9:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 21:34:35 -0500

When you can't leverage a UCMJ or Article 15, a bar to reenlistment backed up by negative counselings is an option. It gives the Soldier 90 days to shape up, then other actions can be taken if he doesn't. You have to be tight on closing out counseling statements on time. I've seen packets for chaptering out get overturned by JAG, because the counselings weren't closed out.

Response by SFC David Sepeda made Jan 1 at 2019 3:04 AM

SFC David Sepeda — Tue, 01 Jan 2019 03:04:10 -0500

Sounds to me that you are dealing with some misguided NCO leadership. I would recommend that you remain professional and use the commander’s open door policy. Be sure to read the COs open door policy so that you don’t step on NCO toes (you may need their support in the future) and utilize your formal chain of command to make this happen. Again, CYA and navigate this with all the professionalism and candor this will require. You might find that this will present an opportunity for the Senior NCOs concerned to “see the light” and simply do what the situation requires. Do not under any circumstances settle for lower standards when the Army is clear on what must be done and be absolutely sure you know the regulations covering this inside out. There’s nothing worse than a fool spouting off at the mouth when they cannot even reference what they are talking about. If you have a strong chain of command they will make things right. If not; there is always the IG route as well.

Response by SSG Jess Peters made Jan 11 at 2019 4:26 PM

SSG Jess Peters — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:26:06 -0500

Find a way to motivate the soldier. Their is nearly always some way to do so. Putting someone like that out is the easy way out. It is a failure of leadership when you do, as well as his failure.

Response by SGT Ron Egan made Mar 21 at 2019 2:39 PM

SGT Ron Egan — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 14:39:40 -0400

Damn I miss the old days. (Me) 10 days extra duty until you pull your head out your ass Pvt. (Him) You can't, put me on extra duty Sarge, only the Company Commander can. (Me) You are absolutely correct dickhead, but if the Ol' Man does it, you also get $125 fine, loose a strip, which comes with pay decrease, and for a bonus, you get to spend the next 15 days restricted to the barracks, your choice. (Him) When do I start.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Mar 21 at 2019 2:43 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 14:43:58 -0400

First thing you need to do is put your thoughts in writing, in a clear, concise and articulate manner, what your concerns are. If you cannot write a clearly concise and articulate report, it most likely will be ignored. Remember who, what, when, where, why, how and action taken. Once you turn it in, it's a legal document.

Response by SFC Salvador Fugrad made Mar 21 at 2019 10:04 PM

SFC Salvador Fugrad — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 22:04:02 -0400

Sounds like he's trying to get medically discharge so he can either be medically retired, or claim VA Disability. Both could be his motivator. Take it to JAG and ask if the soldier's behavior/action be construed as misrepresentation when he joined the military. He's out to milk the government, which is fraud.

Response by SGT Gary Stemen made Mar 22 at 2019 12:20 AM

SGT Gary Stemen — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 00:20:14 -0400

Do your homework, then bust his ass....

Response by Cpl Phillip Brame made Mar 22 at 2019 3:02 AM

Cpl Phillip Brame — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 03:02:26 -0400

In my day there was a thing called remedial PT which is in the evening after work for 1 hour. There was also a thing called alternative PT that gets around the profile system. It requires a soldier to do other forms of PT that does not break the profile. As an NCO you are called upon to be creative but within the regulations.

Response by SFC Jim Kolb made Apr 10 at 2019 8:05 PM

SFC Jim Kolb — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 20:05:01 -0400

This was posted a while ago, I want to point out one of our core values is duty, to our country, to our Army, and to our unit. We should never look at ways to get soldiers out, this is a disservice to our nation who will have to support this person when they are put on the streets, they could shape up with proper motivation. We could be putting out the next hero. We the NCOs are duty bound to make that soldier better, even if an exit from service is ahead. We should be exhausted at the end of the day because we expended so much energy leading our troops. Second, if he smokes with the NCOs the problem could be in because of undue familiarity. If this troop isn’t under your control directly, talk to their leaders, if they are...look in the mirror, give your balls a tug to make sure they are still attached (balls not gender specific) and make the Army and the nation a better place

Response by SPC John Decker made Sep 5 at 2019 7:31 AM

SPC John Decker — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 07:31:00 -0400

In my day, as a medic, it was frowned upon to issue bogus profiles. I would go around the issue to the profile-issuing facility. Determine what the term was. Follow that angle. There might be others. Money might be changing hands.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 23 at 2019 7:55 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 19:55:40 -0400

Where do the Docs fall on this stuff? They’re the medical experts, this is in their court, not usually within the unit structure to figure this out. Light duty, put him on every shit detail you can think of with his limits to the letter. Let the guy embarrass himself, then forget him, and work with guys who care about his team mates. Let peer pressure help you here, I would imagine it’s tough on a slacker with experienced vets ragging his ass.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 7 at 2020 7:00 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Mon, 07 Sep 2020 19:00:32 -0400

Send him to the doc with your concerns, let the doc out him. He’s on profile I’d have him policing the area, forever. I’d just embarrass him as much I could with pussy details.

Response by MSG Mark Million made Feb 15 at 2021 1:34 AM

MSG Mark Million — Mon, 15 Feb 2021 01:34:01 -0500

The first step is counseling, you need to document the problem to support potential future actions. Secondly, you need to verify the problem, i.e. ensure that the soldier is not just medically unfit and in need of a recuperation/therapy or medical discharge rather needing punishment or a negative discharge for purposefully failing to meet expectations. That being said, I would assume you have looked at the soldier's character and ability. You can ask the battalion medical staff for a recommendation on how to handle the soldier's problems (they can't talk to you about his specific confidential medical conditions), however, they can advise you on what you should be doing to enable the soldier to succeed, this will also bring to their attention your suspicions which will help them to identify any true malingering activity which they can document if it becomes obvious that the problems are not "real". This will also help the soldier should the soldier truly be medically unable to perform and in need of a medical discharge to protect their health.

Response by PO1 RIchard Petty made Sep 4 at 2021 4:10 PM

PO1 RIchard Petty — Sat, 04 Sep 2021 16:10:53 -0400

Well lots of advice about this one from everybody old school and new school thinking. Since you are in his chain of command you need to address this with him along with the platoon Sgt. and advise him he will be sent for fit for duty physical if he continues with his actions.

Response by CPO Randy McLaughlin made Sep 4 at 2021 6:28 PM

CPO Randy McLaughlin — Sat, 04 Sep 2021 18:28:17 -0400

First, punctuation and grammar. That is absolutely painful to read. I am retired navy, submariner, and we'd have definitely handled it differently, since our medical department (an Independent Du Corpsman) had to qualify Submarine warfare also. We didn't abide malingerers. But, that was yesterday. Maybe things changed on subs, too.
If your senior NCOs aren't handling it, either it's been taken out of their hands or they are the problem. Going around them won't solve it. How much pain can you tolerate? Do you want the spotlight on you? Of course, unit morale will suffer. But a periodic command climate audit will hopefully catch it, and if not, there's always PCS or EAS.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Sep 4 at 2021 9:16 PM

SFC Don Ward — Sat, 04 Sep 2021 21:16:03 -0400

Is it me, or is the 8th Grade level of writing presented here, along with a lot of the comments by SSG's in these posts rather disheartening? I understand we dropped the standards through the floor with the GWOT, but some of these people cannot possible be writing bullets for NCOER's and awards.

Response by PO1 John Crafton made Sep 6 at 2022 6:38 PM

PO1 John Crafton — Tue, 06 Sep 2022 18:38:31 -0400

While malingering is an issue, it typically happens in the lower ranks. At the NCO level, I've more often seen sailors pretend they're not injured. You know, people with actual injuries faking that the injuries are "not that bad", just so they can stay on full duty and not impact their units or the way their subordinates view them.

It's admirable, but if you can't lift a rifle and hold it at the ready, you shouldn't be standing an armed watch. If you're concussed and can't see the screen very well, you shouldn't be on an operations watch. If you have major ringing in your ears, maybe don't sit that SONAR watch. Or if you're so seasick you have to curl in a ball around the base of your chair, get that fixed ASAP so you can get back on watch and do your job effectively.