How do I handle unprofessional Privates?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:41:27 -0500

Because this is social media I am posting this for a co-worker who is having issues with a new soldier in the Reserves.
I have a new junior enlisted soldier just finished AIT that seems to make an effort to disregard all rule and regulations when it comes to being a professional soldier. Some of the things the soldier has done include , addressing a E5 and O4 as bro, does not shave, fails to complete tasks, late to formation, frequently making inappropriate comments in front of females etc... I and others have tried talking to the soldier. I even spoke to my NCOIC about the issues but he appears to be avoiding confrontation when it comes to these issues. I am currently an E4 wondering what steps I can do to try and deal with this soldier. The Private and I have been told that I am his first line but he seems to not take my authority seriously.

Response by SGT Robert Pryor made Jan 6 at 2020 5:56 AM

SGT Robert Pryor — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 05:56:59 -0500

I guess wall to wall counseling is not longer PC. Then perhaps a long talk with some hardened combat vets on the importance of getting with the program. This youngster's unprofessional attitude can and will get folks killed when things get serious -- and I don't care what the MOS might be.

Response by PO3 Phyllis Maynard made Jan 6 at 2020 6:06 AM

PO3 Phyllis Maynard — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 06:06:25 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member this situation is tricky, in my opinion. You being his first line in the chain of command puts you in the position to get the situation to handle it at the lowest possible level. Start at the beginning. Bring him in for a formal counseling session and present him with a list of discrepancies. Discuss with him the corrective actions that must happen in accordance with the published regulations. Give him written directions. Give him a timeframe to make these corrections. Have 2 follow-up sessions. If he meets the required corrections or if he doesn't after 3 counseling sessions that should appear in hidms record, refer the file to your next in the chain for review and signoff. Determine a maximum timeframe to evaluate the overall success or failure of the new soldier and follow the next formal rules in place.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2020 7:02 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 07:02:01 -0500

You end up with one of two choices, the one you choose will indicate your level of leadership..
You can crush him and kick him out. Show him that this is not what the Army looks like it is willing to tolerate.
Or, you can show him what professional looks like and teach him. You're not wrong if you can't do the second one. I've helped kick out quite a few turd bags who might have had potential with the right leadership. I myself made some stupid choices as well. I once showed up to work after a massive rave with short, bleached blonde hair, back in the time of no hair dye and high and tights.

As for the inappropriate comments in front of females, chances are he was raised believing that was the right thing. You have to re-educate him. I find with re-education it helps if you change the frame of reference. For instance, take those comments and contact his mother and ask if she is aware of her son's comments. Ask him if he would be proud to have his parents hear those comments and then let them hear. Shame is a powerful social tool that can be used for good.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2020 8:48 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 08:48:03 -0500

This starts with counseling and a discussion with the commander and the UA responsible for payroll. Two things you mention can result in a U for drill and no pay, with the possibility of ending in a discharge for unsat performance after three drills.
Not completing assigned tasks is unsat performance, and not shaving is not in compliance with AR 670-1, and for the reserve pay reg, the MDAY or TPU must be in uniform, in compliance with AR 670-1.
So counsel the Soldier on paper, so he understands this kind of failure will result in no pay, and unsat codes that can result in a discharge if he accumulates 9 Us in a 12 month period. And you talk to the CO and UA, because they are the ones that put that U on the payroll.
Also include the SHARP class in that counseling, and remind him that anyone within earshot of that comment can file the complaint, and that you will do that the next time you hear it.
If he continues to fail for three drills, follow up and kick him out.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2020 8:56 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 08:56:23 -0500

This is all too familiar, the longer you go without counseling this young PVT, the worse your issue will become. I am not talking about just one single counseling, he needs a counseling on each individual thing he has done inappropriately. The important thing here is to educate him and discuss a plan of action with each given counseling. In the plan of action, you need to explain what actions he needs to show within a specific time frame to show that he has rehabilitated, and now understands the error of his ways. The key here is to follow up within the time frame given. If you do not, then he has learned nothing and shows that there are not consequences to his actions. I recommend having the "magic bullet" included in each counseling, so that the understand the ramifications of his actions. If none of counseling's work be sure to capture that during your follow ups with the SM. Continue to set the example and hand the counseling's over to your PSG so that he can keep a record of them. Once there are enough of these counseling's your CoC can then begin the process of showing him the door, and he can become a civilian and act anyway he wants, or so he thinks. This is not stressing out about, there are plenty of good Soldiers out there. If you have done your part and tried to help guide him and have sufficient counseling this will not continue to be an issue. Either he will change his ways, or he will continue to be disrespectful as a civilian. Either way, your good. Good luck.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Jan 6 at 2020 9:54 AM

MSG Gary Eckert — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 09:54:18 -0500

The first thing you can do is start making on the spot corrections. Tell him, "Soldier, that is Sergeant to you", send him back to shave, correct him on the inappropriate comments...to be effective on the spot has to be on the spot. Follow-up with written counselling that includes an appropriate action plan and then follow up with the soldier about the plan. One of two things will happen, he will adjust his behavior or you will have the documentation necessary to adjust his status as a Soldier.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2020 10:13 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 10:13:11 -0500

You can take this young troop under your wing and show what right looks like. Take this young troop and explain what right looks like. Also, document in an initial counseling what is expected and what is not going to be tolerated. If you need examples, ArmyWriter.com is an excellent source to check out examples. In that counseling, explain that inappropriate behavior/comments will not be tolerated and if continued, will recommend for disciplinary actions. If you want, when you have a draft written up, send it to me @ [login to see] and I can go over it and make suggestions....if needed.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2020 11:25 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 11:25:27 -0500

One shit detail at a time, until they change their attitude.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jan 6 at 2020 11:38 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 11:38:19 -0500

Kick this one up the chain of command. The PVT needs serious counseling. Your next level Sergeant should be happy to help. Failing that, take advantage of open door time with your unit first sergeant to discuss the problem, ways you could resolve the situation, and ways the first sergeant could help. Be sure to go to the first sergeant with a solution in mind, not just a problem in hand.

Response by SCPO William Akin made Jan 6 at 2020 1:11 PM

SCPO William Akin — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:11:00 -0500

I'm too old to comment on this problem..

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Jan 6 at 2020 3:34 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 15:34:46 -0500

Forget about him... since you aint an NCO... let the E-5's and up worry about him. That's why they get more pay. UNPROFESSIONAL Private..your joking..right... That's the nature of their rank. Or just hand him a broom and get him sweeping and swishing a toilet brush. FYI.. females have very foul mourhs themselves.

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Jan 6 at 2020 3:59 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 15:59:20 -0500

I find it funny that this matter is worrisome. Back in the 70's and 80's.. there were murders in the NG.. assults.. drunk driving... Gang problems with..Jail or Guard programs.. a soldier was murdered just outide my barracks during AT.. My SSGT was shot in the head and killed months later. vehicle roll overs.. being crushed to death by tanks... heat deaths.
Heart attacks... Aircraft and Airborne accidents.. assaults..fights.. I always concealed carry on Reserve and active time. Then many of my friends were maimed by roadside bombs.. some from my sister units were killed in action.. and you're worried about a Private... try loading caskets aboard aircraft or picking up human remains... Desk Jockeys...

Response by CPL Kevin Carns made Jan 6 at 2020 6:29 PM

CPL Kevin Carns — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 18:29:49 -0500

Wall to wall counseling implemented by the E4 mafia.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2020 7:17 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 19:17:48 -0500

From the perspective of another E4 who, as an E2 and E3, showed a disregard and almost disrespect for rank, get authorization from your NCO support channel/Platoon Leadership and smoke the ever-loving dog shit out of him. Nothing was more humiliating to me than to get my ass smoked by an E4.

Or you can find something that he absolutely hates, I. E. talking to him in a certain tone of voice, assigning him a certain task, holding him after formation until all unit personnel leave for the day.

If none of that works, confer with other NCOs for advice. if their advice doesn't work, if you can, start proceedings to get him chaptered. Some people just arent cut out for it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2020 7:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 19:51:35 -0500

Has he been counseled on all the individual issues at hand? Multiple times? Has your PLT leadership been informed or your company commander/1SG? These are important things you’ll need to do if you are having difficultly handling it at a lower level.

As annoying as it is, counseling is an important thing because it’s a paper trail of addressing the issue, and if you take your job seriously, an honest attempt to address the problems and turn him into a better soldier. If your command decides that trying to force him out after x number of violations or take punitive action against him, the paper trail shows you made an effort to fix the issue and couldn’t.

Response by SPC Leo Van Groll made Jan 6 at 2020 9:48 PM

SPC Leo Van Groll — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 21:48:18 -0500

has this Major who was addressed as "bro" not taken any steps ? If not, why not ? Is there something else going on that no one wants to confront this private ? Is his dad a General or something?

Response by SSG Kelly Melton made Jan 6 at 2020 11:45 PM

SSG Kelly Melton — Mon, 06 Jan 2020 23:45:04 -0500

All the comments I have read are good but the right approach all ways depends upon the person who is being disrespectful the right NCO made me a good soldier and the wrong one drove me the wrong way try to find out what is going on in his world to see if his background is the problem a helping hand and a clam word works most of the time but sometimes tuflove

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Jan 7 at 2020 1:02 AM

Cpl Rc Layne — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 01:02:28 -0500

Do your job. Document his behavior and refer him to the chain of command. Protect the investment the taxpayers made in everyone else.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2020 1:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jan 2020 13:54:27 -0500

Documentation is amazing. Start doing some paperwork on said PVT each time they mess up then take it to the chain of command. If nothing is done go above them. If they won't address it then go to IG. There is the potential for a lot of issues with the situation.

Response by SPC Sam Russell made Jan 8 at 2020 7:05 AM

SPC Sam Russell — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 07:05:50 -0500

Smoke the dog shit out of him.
Doesn't learn that way?
Paperwork.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jan 8 at 2020 4:54 PM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 16:54:19 -0500

Long story made short as possible:
_The Emperor wants a personal body guard unit made up of his 100 concubines.
General Sun Tzu appoints 2 Concubines Platoon Leaders, then tries to teach the concubines the manual of arms
_The concubines don't take it serious, and it turns into a giggle fest.
_General Sun Tzu ensures that the two lead concubines know what to do and how to do it; and that they are in fact capable of doing it.
_The General Sun Tzu then attempts to teach the two concubines the manual of arms. Once again, it is a giggle fest. This leads the General to the determination that the two concubines know what to do, how to do it, and that they are capable of doing it, but they don't want to do it.
_General Sun Tzu calls for the executioner. The two lead concubines now express their ardent desire to learn the manual of arms.
_General Sun Tzu has them executed anyway.
_General Sun Tzu then calls out the two next most senior concubines. He makes sure that the women know what to do, how to do it, and are capable of doing it.
_And no one ever had a unit that was as good at the manual of arms as those concubines.

The standard is immediate, intelligent, obedience. If a private understands what to do and how to do it, is capable of doing it, but just doesn't want to do it, the Army doesn't need him. Spend time and effort on the good soldiers.

Response by SPC Kenneth Koerperich made Jan 9 at 2020 10:03 PM

SPC Kenneth Koerperich — Thu, 09 Jan 2020 22:03:47 -0500

Already been "talked" to...find the nearest wood line for a good one on one session...bar that, since the Army has gone soft, you're left with:

Crush the mofo and put him OUT!

Response by CPL(P) Mark Fies made May 17 at 2020 6:09 PM

CPL(P) Mark Fies — Sun, 17 May 2020 18:09:18 -0400

Write it down. Counseling statements add up to AR 15 Hearings. Phuque 'em hard, fry 'em fast, ferget whom?

Response by COL William Oseles made May 17 at 2020 7:16 PM

COL William Oseles — Sun, 17 May 2020 19:16:55 -0400

The NCO is the one needing counseling.
Report the issue up the chain.
Bottom line, document everything.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made May 17 at 2020 8:35 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sun, 17 May 2020 20:35:51 -0400

Why did he join then?

It’s not a Boys Club, it comes with responsibilities, if he doesn’t want
to comply he gets the boot, and you dedicate your experience and time to those who are seriously trying to get better. Regardless though, if your in a jam you trust him to watch your back? No, he’s the guys who’s late, doesn’t clean his rifle, falls asleep on guard duty. He’s not worth the time or risk to good soldiers or Marines. Your there to lead the willing not to save one shit bird whose looking for an easy out, who’s supposed to act like a man not a stupid 16 yr old. Keeping him around punishes others around him, they have to pull his slack, they have to do his work. You wonder how these turds get thru basic.
.

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made May 18 at 2020 12:16 PM

SFC Francisco Rosario — Mon, 18 May 2020 12:16:47 -0400

It sounds like this soldier may be related to some senior leader or he may have something on one of them. Either way he needs to be chaptered out on a bad conduct discharge. Stop giving him any credence.

Response by Cpl Phillip Brame made May 18 at 2020 5:49 PM

Cpl Phillip Brame — Mon, 18 May 2020 17:49:16 -0400

As a Specialist you are going to find it hard for any Private. Now or Private First Class to take you seriously. In a reserve unit the young junior enlisted are still part time civilians. I recommend that you as a Specialist and a first line supervisor in charge of a section you should request a lateral transfer to the rank of Corporal. That will make you an NCO even if temporary that will give you the authority and the mandate to act as one. Now of course you will have to go to PLDC to learn to be a NCO but completing PLDC successfully will give you the confidence you need but it will also give the junior enlisted confidence that you, their first line supervisor has the Confidence and trust of command in your ability to lead men and woman. After all that is what you aspire to be right!

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made May 19 at 2020 4:35 AM

Cpl Rc Layne — Tue, 19 May 2020 04:35:04 -0400

Document the behavior and push it up the chain. Run him out and protect the taxpayers.

Response by Capt Bob Soldner made May 19 at 2020 4:15 PM

Capt Bob Soldner — Tue, 19 May 2020 16:15:19 -0400

GIVE HIM TO MEEE!

Response by PO2 Ron Gunsolus made Jan 2 at 2021 1:20 PM

PO2 Ron Gunsolus — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 13:20:09 -0500

burn pit duty, toilet cleaning, endless shit jobs... midwatches at useless new posts,

Response by TSgt Timothy Backstrom made Jan 2 at 2021 1:21 PM

TSgt Timothy Backstrom — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 13:21:16 -0500

Had an airman in my shop at RAF Lakenheath the 1st Shirt and CC had to send back home to PA for failure to adapt. He could not get up in time in the morning to make it to work on time. 1st Shirt, his supervisor, and myself worked with him for 6 months to find a solution; but nothing worked. About 3 months later his grandmother contacted the 1st Shirt to ask him why we sent him back home.

Response by COL William Oseles made Jan 2 at 2021 1:58 PM

COL William Oseles — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 13:58:34 -0500

Write up Formal Counseling and provide to the 'soldier' what is expected of him and detail his inappropriate behavior. It is apparent that lead by example is not working.
If he fails to come around then action should be taken and it is time for the Chain of Command to step up and do their job.
The Chain of Command has obviously noted his actions, so you need to provide the documentation.
As for the NCOIC, probably needs to find a new job if that NCOIC is ignoring all the issues, especially the "making inappropriate comments in front of females".

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Jan 2 at 2021 2:56 PM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 14:56:22 -0500

I know it's a different Army these days, but what kind of chain of command dumps this responsibility on a SP4? When I was in, the Specialist rank was a pay grade, they didn't command troops, at any level. That was the purview of hard stripers, which is who should be handling it, and soon. This "Give a sh*t" attitude can be contagious. What's curious to me is how this guy and his attitude got thru basic training and AIT.

Response by SSG Matthew Koehler made Jan 2 at 2021 10:14 PM

SSG Matthew Koehler — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 22:14:38 -0500

Document, document, document. If this soldier fails to perform to standard, take his drill pay away for unsat performance