How do we achieve equality?

Cpl Ray Fernandez — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 01:31:21 -0500

I see a lot of discussions here that discuss equal rights and treatment in the military, and others that are critical of changes to the military like gender equality, sexual orientation and how they affect mission readiness. My question boils down to how do we attain equal opportunity without sacrificing the fighting power of the military. Do you think it's possible to do so without weakening our fighting power, or do you think that the military is being forced to be a social experiment that risks our national security?

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jan 8 at 2014 2:40 AM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Wed, 08 Jan 2014 02:40:29 -0500

I believe that our volunteers, fully understanding the multi-gendered nature of our force, will rise to the occasion and become the greatest military the world has ever seen, where the personality and loyalty of their battle companions is all the matters. I do believe we will get past the issues of who has what below the belt and what the orientation if their buddy is. One of the key tenets of being an American is acceptance of diversity, and of Service, is respect for any who chose to serve.

Response by SSgt Lonnie Montgomery made Jan 9 at 2014 1:30 AM

SSgt Lonnie Montgomery — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 01:30:37 -0500

If the person can pass the physical and mental prerequisites of a combat MOS then they are in. If there is to be acceptance don’t change the requirements, no special treatment, no special equipment, and no special rules. And by special rules I am also talking not circumventing a commander’s authority on discipline and morale. The reason BUDs /SQT works so well (going ‘70s old school here), is the knowledge that anyone that wears the “Trident” qualified using the same standards regardless of rank, religion, gender or what color car they drove. So what I am saying is keep the standards for a combat MOS high, no short cuts, and no specials… on the other end anyone wearing the “patch” went through the same qualifications and you have to respect that.

Response by CPT Keith Steinhurst made Jan 9 at 2014 7:00 AM

CPT Keith Steinhurst — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:00:31 -0500

Loaded question, but philosophically flawed and the challenge is insitutional, the very concept of 'equality.' Unless one is speaking metaphorically, as in, all human beings are equal in worth as human beings, and leave it at that, then from that point on the argument is baseless. No two human beings are identically equal, not even twins. No two human beings are developed with exactly equal experiences - period. The best, most optimal that one can hope for is true equality of opportunity for two otherwise similiar individuals - and that can be legislated / dictated, but one still has the subjective experience aspects that tend to render moot even the best intentions of an increasingly PC environment. Now add the inherently artifical environment of the military which is by definition hierarchical, intuitively, and institutionally NOT equal and the challenge compounds. Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcome that is wanted? Equality aong E2s? or equality among E2s and O2s? NEVER going to happen. Equality among 11Bs and 35Bs or 70Hs? Again, not realistic. SImiliar outcomes for males and females of equal rank in the same MOS and in the same service branch in the same location of the world - closer to reality and easier to compare yes, but can equal outcomes still be guaranteed - NO - statistically impossible (and I do know something about descriptive sadistics - pun intended - and I realize that a skillful statistician can order data to say whatever one wants . . .). But, I digress . . .

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 9 at 2014 8:43 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 09 Jan 2014 08:43:37 -0500

My simple answer? Do not acknowledge race, gender, sexual preference, religion, nationality etc... AT ALL! No forms should include sections for race, gender, religion, etc... If we are all equal, than all of those are irrelevant, so there's no need to track it. Also, no special holidays. There's no such thing as "XXX" history. There is only HUMAN HISTORY.

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Everyone should be regarded solely through their own merits, not through happenstance of birth or genetics. We don't celebrate hair colors or foot sizes, so why celebrate any other genetic irrelevance like race, gender or color? Those aren't accomplishments, they're just random variables at birth, much like eye color.

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In short, treat everyone the same, and stop focusing on our differences. No more "strength through diversity" campaigns. Let's start having "strength through competence" campaigns.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2014 3:42 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 03:42:49 -0500

I can't imagine there will ever be true equality among the sexes in the military until they're required to meet the same standards across the board. Why shouldn't a woman have to keep up with me on a run if she's to have the same job as me? Should one sex only be required to have an AS degree when the other is required to have a BS degree in the business world? Equality comes without exceptions for differences. I don't care if you're built differently than me if you're trying to drag my wounded ass out of the line of fire, as long as you're capable of dragging said ass.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made May 28 at 2015 11:31 AM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Thu, 28 May 2015 11:31:06 -0400

There's one race "human race". Stop acknowledging how everyone is different, and start focusing on how everyone is the same.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 1:41 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 13:41:37 -0400

By establishing blind criteria for positions and letting the numbers sort itself out. The same way the football draft, NBA draft, etc sorts it all out... I've said this before but it applies here as well.

The problem we wrestle with in gender or racial ... etc. "quotas" is not a gender or racial one. The problem is expectations of integration without recognition of ability or crucial differences. We all cannot grow up to be Arnold Swartzenager, Michael Jordan, Elton John, Margaret Thatcher, Florence Nightingale, Mahatma Gandhi or name your famous successful person. We can not do everything we desire and want. Yes it is true... many of our parents lied to us when we were small. We cannot all grow up to be whatever we want to. I cannot will myself tall or heavy enough to be a Pro basketball or football player. I cannot will myself to be a genius of the likes of Stephen Hawkins. It's not about will or desire and my inability to reach those goals do not reveal societal prejudice but simply genetic realities. We need to accept that we ARE all inequality different and amazing: we are not the same so it is ignorant to assume we can achieve anything. Equality once again is the opportunity to have the chance to both succeed at something and fail. No matter how badly I want to be a Mother my biological and genetic makeup does not permit it. We must accept and embrace our inherent differences and maintain common sense. Standards of excellence and professional performance should be race, gender, age, religion and sexual orientation blind.

We must embrace the fact that making a decision against or for someone based on their race, gender, sexuality etc IS a civil rights violation. Meet the criteria or move on.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 4:11 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:11:28 -0400

When Molly Shattuck can get probation and 48 weekends in prison for the same actions that got Jared Fogle 5 years, we are far far away from gender equality.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 27 at 2015 11:57 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:57:04 -0400

The crux of the matter is, women and men have different bodies. Do we give accommodation to women, or do we uphold them to mens' standards?

Response by SFC Christopher Springs made Sep 20 at 2015 11:00 PM

SFC Christopher Springs — Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:00:47 -0400

You create equality by eliminating inequality. The reason for special observances are highlighted by the answers of the individuals below. The fact that many people look at diversity, equality, and equal rights as something funny or a nuisance is the reason why changing our culture is so difficult. The mentality of most is that if it doesn't affect me it must not be necessary. Or the fact that these special obaervances are only about minorities. I am a former Equal Opportunity Advisor who used to host the events that these individuals made comments about. At every event I read the presidential proclimation that states special observance are about the contributions of all those who helped us shape our american culture. Meaning that we should not be looking at race or color at all but at those who have helped to make this country the greatest in the world. The bottom lines is that in order to achieve equality everyone has to see equality as being beneficial. However as long as that idea is not prominent and the attitude towards equality is shown as those who have commented below we still have a long way to go. Change after all is the most difficult thing for people to do.