How do we control the gang members that come in the military?

2015-10-23T10:04:17-04:00

How do we control the gang members that come into the military, then takes there training back to the streets and use it there and teach others the tactics of how to kill and ambush police and other people?
I was just watching a tv series of gang land where the gangs are coming into the military to learn how to kill and get education on tactics. How do we get a hold of this and to stop the senseless act of violence that is going on?

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Oct 23 at 2015 10:09 AM

2015-10-23T10:09:56-04:00

Well, we already have background checks. It's probably impossible to keep out everyone who shouldn't be here.

Response by TSgt David L. made Oct 23 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-10-23T10:11:23-04:00

There isn't enough time in the day to babysit the regular problem children without trying to figure out who is a gang banger. They join the military to learn TTP, and unless they slip somehow, you may never know their true motives.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Oct 23 at 2015 10:28 AM

2015-10-23T10:28:59-04:00

The only thing I can think of is more intense screenings while at MEPS , most like to brag about their gang affiliations by tattoo's so just like in prison they take photos of tattoo's that identify a persons affiliation with gangs. I saw a documentary a few years ago how Ft. Hood had it really bad for gang affiliations .

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2015 10:44 AM

2015-10-23T10:44:05-04:00

You really don't have a choice to who comes in the military or not. Either gang affiliated or not, you treat everyone equally. It's a free country. If they QUALIFY to be in service. Yes all capitalized for my enthusiasm, then they qualify! You don't got no say in this. Recruiters truly in this world get to decide whether they have to meet their quota and/or need a certain number to be in a certain MOS. truthfully in my opinion the army is the biggest gang in the world. For those who have been in for a minute you will understand what I am saying. For those who don't I am sorry. But yes it's a hard decision to understand. The concept is critical because if you got a pure heart you would know if a person is gang affiliated or not. But no one in this world is perfect. We all lie in this world of positive and negative! I think it's best we all focus on ourselves instead of worrying about others. Just remember that how can you take care of someone else if you can't even take care of yourself!

A great special forces ranger commander once told me that, "whatever happens in the dark will come out to the light"

Basically means take care of yourself! Stay focused! Don't put more food in your plate that you can handle, be humble! And stay focused. Those who do wrong will be drawn towards negativity and those who do right will be noticed now or later! Someway somehow! No one in this world should live in this world with negativity! If they do?, then they personally choose to.

Hope that helps!

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2015 10:50 AM

2015-10-23T10:50:36-04:00

Develop a mind reading machine!!!!! ops ... that is not a good idea ...

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Oct 23 at 2015 12:42 PM

2015-10-23T12:42:11-04:00

I've seen that episode and honestly you can't. Not sure if there is a way to stop this. You control (or try to mold them properly) them while they're in, but the moment they get out....you can only hope for the best. Controlling those that come in is another problem all in itself. Not all come in with the intent of keeping that life alive, but even though they could be "free" of the life, their families are still in the areas that caused the situation in the first place, sucking the troop back. It's a vicious cycle.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Oct 24 at 2015 4:59 PM

2015-10-24T16:59:46-04:00

Are recruiters not running background checks, looking at police records, and documenting tattoos anymore?

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Oct 24 at 2015 5:10 PM

2015-10-24T17:10:56-04:00

Sorry I accidentally hit the thumbs down. I will offset it with a thumbs up. Didn't realise this was a problem in the military. Given the restrictions on tats' I'm surprised they get in.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 6:59 PM

2015-10-24T18:59:08-04:00

the real question should be, how do we allow gang members to join?

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2015 1:56 PM

2015-10-27T13:56:38-04:00

Let them know they've joined a far larger, much older organization with a huge retiree community and a lifelong dedication to the nation. If their "gang" is more important than that they need to leave.

Response by SCPO Carl Wayne Boss made Oct 27 at 2015 4:29 PM

2015-10-27T16:29:23-04:00

SSG Bell; Don't potential Recruit's Police records get checked during the pre-enlistment process anymore?

If you find out some one has or even "had" gang ties and you enlist them, you're taking a chance. I worked in Recruiting for 10 years and many Recruiters ignore past gang affiliation, because they want to report high numbers for enlistments as often as possible and it's getting tougher to get them as it is.

Even after you enlist a troop they need to be looked at every now and then, especially if gang ties were/are suspected. Units need to check with local law enforcement where their assigned troops live and see if there is any current gang involvement, actual or suspected and if so, place these troops in the IRR while they're being scrutinized or give the individual an "unsuitability discharge" if questions or problems continue to arise.

As a Law Enforcement Organization, My Service couldn't afford to have the question of gang affiliation go unanswered or left unaddressed with when it popped up after enlistment.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2015 9:13 AM

2015-10-28T09:13:05-04:00

You don't control them per say - you identify the ones who still "identify" and remain "actively affiliated" with their past criminal organizations - you counsel them on their negative behavior (develop the paper trail), and you continue to monitor them as you would any troubled Soldier. I would go even a step further to see if you could actually talk to them - seek out what keeps luring them back to their old "organization" and why. Sometimes it may be something they have no control over and other times it might be simply due to the fact they are knuckleheads.

Sometimes you might be able to help them get on the right path, sometimes you can't and in those cases - you have the documentation to start the process to remove them from service.

In regards of bringing their "training" back to the streets - gangs have had service members long before now and still suck at tactics. So I'm not to worried about the local organization setting up linear ambushes, as I walk around downtown. If they do - guess I'll be their huckleberry.

Response by SPC Ken Sawyer made Oct 28 at 2015 12:25 PM

2015-10-28T12:25:11-04:00

To me the bigger question is with the president bringing in the so called refugees how many of them are hostile to the US but will join to learn tactics. To get the training that will then be used against us.

Response by SGT James Hunsinger made Oct 28 at 2015 2:16 PM

2015-10-28T14:16:45-04:00

Well, people are big into back ground checks for purchasing fire arms so, do a back ground check on a recruit and if they have gang affiliations, too bad so sad.

Response by Cpl Shawn Halloran made Oct 28 at 2015 6:56 PM

2015-10-28T18:56:35-04:00

I am at a loss here . when I went through boot they broke us down so far there was no chance of still being something you were before . has the present bootcamp gotten that soft ???

Response by SA Mason Bradfield made Oct 28 at 2015 10:14 PM

2015-10-28T22:14:33-04:00

Train the recruiters to be more selective and how to spot signs of gang affiliation in their A.O. Also it is possible the problem has been exaggerated by the television show.

Response by SSgt Laurie Sayles made Oct 29 at 2015 2:05 PM

2015-10-29T14:05:48-04:00

Have there been evidence that this is going on?

Response by SPC Keelan Southerland made Oct 30 at 2015 10:52 AM

2015-10-30T10:52:38-04:00

One of the best ways you can combat this in the military is to talk with the local Gang Task Force with the local PD or Federal Agencies about recognizing these jokers. If you can ID them within the ranks you can get CID, NCIS to investigate them and their buddies. This is a problem in the military, but as an NCO you have two obligations looking after your troops and protecting "the people." Part of that entails watching out for the crap recruiters let slide in with the lies and waivers. If you can tie off with the Gang Task Force and start up a Gang Recognition Program without some POS crying EO you will succeed at your mission protecting your troops and the people.

One problem you will have comes from the culture within the military. When I was in we had a class about this very topic and it was given by a Butter Bar. The vast majority of the gangs mentioned were White Gangs, I mean of the 100 there were 3 Black gangs and 4 Mexican. Everyone in the crowd, 400ish looked around and started calling BS. When the Q&A came around we all started asking why the Power Point presentation was so one-sided and why is only whitey bad? It was not me asking these questions, it was SGM's, 1SG's and various officers. The problem you will have instituting anything is getting past those who will cry and whine about racism and EO when their feeling gets hurt.

If you can get the Base Commander on-board with this program and show the problem through local and federal law enforcement he will be more inclined to do something about it, rather than pass the buck off to someone else.

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2015 9:03 PM

2015-10-30T21:03:27-04:00

Do background checks and if they have been in a gang, do not let them join. It really is that simple.

Response by SPC Steven Sciotto made Oct 31 at 2015 10:57 AM

2015-10-31T10:57:10-04:00

This has been a 'cyclical' problem for some time, though you could make a very good argument that it's worse than it's ever been.

In peacetime, the answer is simple; you don't let them in to begin with. You deny an application for enlistment to anyone with a criminal record or known association with organized gangs or extremist organizations.

In wartime, or when there's a pressing need for more infantrymen, these things are often overlooked. The situation you describe is worse now because we've been at war for so long.

When I went through boot camp, it was during a winter cycle at Ft. Dix and quite a few of the young recruits were gang-bangers who were told by a Philadelphia judge: "Army or jail, take your pick".

More than once during our cycle, one gang member 'ambushed' another; often while he was asleep in his bunk...I remember staying up all night in the front-leaning-rest position with the rest of our basic training company until someone fessed up to the crime.

On another occasion, one of them took a swing at a drill sargent. We were in formation, and one of the drills grabbed this particular soldier to dress him down in front of the whole company.

He didn't much like it, and the left hook he threw landed squarely on the drill sargent's right cheek, with significant effect.

As if they were one body, the other drill sargents jumped on this guy and proceeded to do a dance on his face.

We didn't see that soldier again after this unfortunate incident; we also didn't have any trouble with gang activity after that, either.

There were still quite a few who were 'punks' and acted like they were always spoiling for a fight, but they'd settle down real fast when the men with THE HAT entered the barracks.

In AIT, part of the education at the company level - aside from the formal job training at that location - was to get each soldier to identify with the Army as their new 'gang'; and up to a point, this was a good thing. (We were the 'green' people.)

Likewise, it served to 'weed out' those who couldn't take on that new identity.

Where it went awry was when the cadre began to 'encourage' our soldiers to get into fights with the company of Marines in the barracks next door.

You could argue all day that it's always been that way between rival services and - once again - no argument from me. But, I'd argue back that it's probably inappropriate in a training environment.

On my graduation day, I went to see the commander of that Marine Corps Training Company and explained this practice to him, that our soldiers were being 'put up' to this behavior by our cadre, and that he should probably speak to the (Army) company commander about it, because it served no good purpose and was likely to get someone injured; and that was completely contrary to the purpose of the training environment.

He agreed and thanked me for my input.

The point of it all is that you have a basic structure (the cadre) to deal with 'problem recruits'; what's needed is enlightened leadership as to how they should use the power they've been given which - when applied in the right measure - can do a world of good for the Army as a whole.

But when misapplied or mismanaged, can make a bad situation worse.

I made these observations over 20 years ago; but I made them as a mature man, not an 18-year-old d*ckhead.

Does that answer your question, Sargent?

Response by LCDR Jayne Garland made Oct 31 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-10-31T12:56:33-04:00

Great question. But you may not like the answer. First, it is my understanding that it is not just gang members who are doing this. Terrorists are also benefiting from military training. But to your point, how does one determine if one is a gang member? Do they have a record? Do they sport gang related tattoos? If so, this might prevent recruitment. On the other hand, is there pressure on recruiters to ignore certain information in favor of meeting recruiting numbers? Unless there is specific unlawful behavior prior to service or while on active duty or in the reserves there is little the military can do to address this concern. And once a member has been released from all military obligations it becomes a civilian concern again.

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made Oct 31 at 2015 7:30 PM

2015-10-31T19:30:58-04:00

Nothing you can do, sometimes unethical recruiters tell candidates how to beat entry drug testing and may fudge test scores and other paperwork

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made Oct 31 at 2015 7:35 PM

2015-10-31T19:35:39-04:00

Before the wars started in the late 90's early 00, fort hood had a ruthless gang lead by a female SPC, they did drug dealing and alleged murders

Response by SFC Richard Murrell made Nov 2 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-11-02T16:30:17-05:00

I understand that in life sometimes people will fall through the crack, I also know for a fact that a True NCO will train and develop a young soldier to be bigger and better than themselves. I think the term gang is relative because a young man/lady economic status will determine who they will become at the end of the day. Joining the military and teaming up with that NCO who cares about that recruit will mold, shape, develope, and train them to become seasoned professionals. That has been my experience.

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 2 at 2015 5:42 PM

2015-11-02T17:42:13-05:00

How about address the problem of gangs - instill value in education, address the root source of broken homes, and stiffer penalties for drug dealing. Instead we build a welfare system that encourages single parent homes, we legalize drugs and no repercussion for not having a high school degree which is free - no high school diploma no benefits, convicted of selling drugs no benefits. Have a kid and don't know the father no benefits. Seem like that would encourage people to stay away from gang bangers.

Response by SFC Ernest Thurston made Jun 18 at 2020 6:42 PM

2020-06-18T18:42:32-04:00

As a Drill Sergeant one cycle, I actually had a platoon with about 10 gang members in it. I spent a lot of extra hours in disciplining and correcting a handful of privates that cycle, but eventually, they toed the line. The military is a gang of sorts. A lot of fear and peer pressure produces results. You just have to channel it in the direction that you want it to go. Once you establish who is the Alpha Wolf in the pack, the pack follows. That's part of what Drill Sergeants do every day. Then on graduation day you just pray that the NCOs in their home unit are good leaders and follow up on your groundwork. I had a couple that thought they could be badasses when I left them in the bay and bully the other troops. You do not want to be on my bad side for 16-17 weeks. As the Borg say "You will be assimilated!" You either change or go home.