How do we get back to the traditional basics of the miliary?

SFC Randy Purham — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 07:24:34 -0400

My question about "what is considered archaic/traditional that we need to get away from?" The responses were - well read them. I made the intentional absurdity - with valid argument - that formations need to become minimal (up in arms we go!) From an objective viewpoint many of these traditions have faded away. But, now that they are gone and holistically changed the military. How do we go back?

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made Apr 5 at 2016 7:30 AM

SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 07:30:32 -0400

SFC Randy Purham I would say discipline and good order. Respect and dignity up the chain and down. Get back to the core ethic values!

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 5 at 2016 8:26 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:26:12 -0400

The first question that needs to be answered is "Why do we go back to the basics?" Does it make us a better fighting force, now and in the future? There is a reason why we no longer train the shield wall or testudo formation?
If we find it is something we do need to bring back, why did it go away? It is actually pretty easy to bring something back, IF the top leadership says it is coming back.

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Apr 5 at 2016 8:46 AM

SSG Ed Mikus — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:46:24 -0400

We start by instilling better discipline, pride, and build with a more defined focus and clarity/transparency of mission.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Apr 5 at 2016 8:50 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:50:09 -0400

Define them.

The first thing to do is define the basics. If you are writing a paper, you build an outline. If you are building a house, you make a plan. If you are going "back to basics" define what the "basics" are.

What are the fundamental building blocks which are necessary for the performance of our role? A few examples:

1) What is the objective of Marine Corps Leadership?
2) What is the purpose of the Marine Rifleman?
3) What are the USMC Leadership Principles?
4) What are the USMC Leadership Traits?
5) What are the General Orders of a Sentry
6) What is the purpose of close order drill?
7) What is a MAGTF?

There are countless others, but these are "simple" ones which can be expanded and scaled based on need. They are "fundamental building blocks" which everything else is built upon.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 8:52 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:52:03 -0400

We are taught the basics in basic training or boot camp that is where we all become basically trained. We continue the teachings of good order and discipline throughout the initial training phases. I don't think we need to go back to the basics but need to continue what we already know. Fortunately many things talked about in the other thread aren't going anywhere.

Not all units are even service branches are created equal when talking about "archaic/traditional." The most important thing is that we remain the words best fighting force.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 5 at 2016 9:24 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:24:02 -0400

It's generally accepted that over the last decade of war, we have placed a lot of standards to the side in order to facilitate the war effort. Over the course of the war, there has been a great deal of institutional change and lessons learned. Now, my question(s) are the following;
If, in the course of our war fighting, which is the primary mission for our Armed Forces, we set certain standards aside as being irrelevant to the war effort, and the mission was a success, does that not indicate that those standards may not be needed?
If so, now that the wars are winding down, why would we reinstate those standards? Is that not just ignoring a decades worth of lessons learned? Is it wise to institute standards that we know are obsolete to the actual mission for the sake of "well, we don't have anything else to focus on without a mission"?
Should we not be examining our performance over the last decade and creating NEW standards based off of lessons learned and not just rehashing what we just got done discarding as irrelevant or not vital to the mission?
Does the end of the current conflicts HAVE to mean going back to the way things were? Can we not move forward instead of backwards?

Response by SFC Randy Purham made Apr 5 at 2016 10:41 AM

SFC Randy Purham — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 10:41:05 -0400

Everyone says: "we need to go back to the basics", "Traditions shouldn't change!" But, what everyone has seem to miss and/or forget - they have! The basics have now changed. What are they now? Whatever we need them to be for the situation we are in apparently, because we are still redefining ourselves as a modern military. Sure, you can reinforce some land nav - provided you don't get issues from range control, and your risk assessment, and logistics are all in order. Yeah, we can take Soldier to the range all day long - provided the Ammo is forecasted 90-days ago (goes back to planning), the range is laid on (God forbid range maintenance days), and vehicles, fuel, food are all in order. Now, lets look the budget cuts that circumvented the modern leader from training.

Here comes the EST 2000, On-line Mandatory training, and simulators (that have glitches and operations are on M, T, W, Th from 0930-1130/1130-1500) Hey, lets go to the field for a week - not when you have Command & Staff, Training Meeting, 1SG meeting, CSM Meeting, Safety Briefing, and oh by the way, Soldiers have to do barracks maintenance and have to be back in before 1600 Friday for that BN awards Ceremony. How dare you plan to train SSG! So, I now formulate the honest question - what basics are we truly going with?

The military has evolved and changed so rapidly we lost ourselves in the mix. Another thread that is rambunctious at best, all concur we need to keep traditions. Uh, too late. Your Stars, Bars and Chevrons before you took them away for whatever purpose and reason they did - where were you at to yell and fuss about keeping them then? Your results are what we have. Now, moving forward we create new standards and forget the old, because we - logistically - can't bring them back to visit them again anyway. Or do we continue to complain and ETS?

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Apr 5 at 2016 10:51 AM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 10:51:25 -0400

I don't think we have the discipline and drive for the basics.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 5 at 2016 11:01 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:01:10 -0400

The only traditions of the military is what are the values, what is the mission of the service. What needs to be done. Everything else that happens around that is part of the ever evolving world.

Response by COL R. Bruce Chisholm made Apr 5 at 2016 12:05 PM

COL R. Bruce Chisholm — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 12:05:51 -0400

Return to the prohibition of males carrying umbrellas. It scares the horses.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 3:04 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 15:04:21 -0400

Enough of the SHARP training already!

Response by Cpl Jon Westbrook made Apr 5 at 2016 3:31 PM

Cpl Jon Westbrook — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 15:31:00 -0400

Look guys, this shift in the culture of the military is part of a larger shift going on in our country right now. That's what people don't seem to understand. The whole world is changing. Some ways for the better, some ways not so much. But this question of "How can we make things like they were" is never going to be answered because it isn't possible. People have already moved on and think differently. See Trump campaign for more details.

The point I'm trying to make, is that our issues don't lie in formations or tattoo policies, or even BAS being taken away from soldiers in Korea. The deeper and more fundamental issue here is that people don't really know how to react yet to a rapidly changing world. Everything is being questioned and evaluated. From gender roles to religion to politics, and even what we stand for as a country. This isn't the first time this has happened, and it wont be the last. Things will get better, and there will come a day when America and her military have the respect and prestige that they deserve. But right now were basically reliving the 60s. Shits crazy.

Response by SGT Kevin Blinn made Apr 5 at 2016 5:36 PM

SGT Kevin Blinn — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 17:36:42 -0400

Return to when we were respected and didn't have to change standards because of hurt feelings.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 6:21 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 18:21:10 -0400

Having minimal formations is a excellent idea. My command used that and had section accountability. It worked extremely well. Especially when you have over 300 soldiers

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Apr 5 at 2016 7:36 PM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 19:36:27 -0400

The purpose of the Military is to protect the nation by force or threat of force. It's important that the methods of achieving that don't become paradigms. In 50 years or so the Manual of arms may be impossible to do because the Infantry soldier's weapon may be no bigger than an I-phone.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 9:51 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 21:51:40 -0400

By my observation, "Back to the basics" is a euphemism for "we aren't funding training right now". Pretty much the opposite of what they say.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2016 3:59 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2016 15:59:49 -0400

Remove any and all DIRECT political influence, and seriously limit INDIRECT, as well. Second, lean on Senior NCOs for far greater input at every level, from the unit to the branch, itself.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2016 10:10 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 22:10:10 -0400

http://terminallance.com/2016/04/22/terminal-lance-422-truck-tradition/

This may be a tradition we can get rid of

Terminal Lance - Terminal Lance #422 “Truck Tradition”

The Marine Corps is an organization of many customs and traditions. It values and reveres the courtesies and rich history of those that came and served before them. Some traditions take the form of dress uniforms and various greetings of the day. Others are just confusing, like the one that says that the trucks always have to be comically late to pick you up from the armory prior to a field op.