How do we make Corporals in the Army relevant?

SSG David Dickson — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:27:59 -0400

If I could wave a magic wand, I would automatically make all promotable Specialists Corporals. If they don't deserve Corporal; stripes, they don't deserve Sergeant's stripes. If they lost their promotable status, they would then revert to Specialist. This would make the enable leadership to promptly identify and place hard charging E-4's in positions of greater responsibility without deference to senior E-4's who are not motivated to go through the promotion board process. Thoughts?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1SG Private RallyPoint Member SGT Ben Keen CPT Laurie H. SPC Tyler Frampton @

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Aug 25 at 2015 3:37 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:37:19 -0400

How to make them relevant, do what my 1SG did with me when I was a CPL, trust them and empower them to take charge. You'd be amazed at the real talent we have in our formations if you simply trust your people! Give them guidance, ensure they trust you enough that they can come to you for additional guidance if needed and allow them to surprise you with their initiative and injenuity.

SSG David Dickson you are spot on with your thoughts and I completely agree. I often get pushback from senior leaders not wanting to go along this same route...."the CPL is an NCO and should be serving on an NCO position"....my thought is the CPL is a 10 level position, let them learn about themselves, let them learn about leadership before they are a hard striped SGT....keep pushing your idea and get traction where you can - you are on the right path to leader development!

Response by SPC Tyler Frampton made Aug 25 at 2015 3:46 PM

SPC Tyler Frampton — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:46:01 -0400

I really think that this would be a good idea for the hard charging specialists. They need it to stay motivated and move up in leadership positions. We need more of that motivation and drive not the sham shield types.

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 25 at 2015 3:52 PM

SPC David S. — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 15:52:46 -0400

Sounds like a good idea. The Army should start doing that.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Aug 25 at 2015 4:05 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:05:56 -0400

I disagree that all Specialist should be Corporals. I actually think the majority have little or no business being corporals. I think all all E-4 should be trained and mentored in such away that they are ready for the next level but it seems like you want to make corporals E4.5s?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 4:09 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:09:10 -0400

Only if they're promotable.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Aug 25 at 2015 4:14 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:14:35 -0400

You might ask the Marine Corps, our Corporals are pretty relevant.

Response by SFC(P) Jonathan P. made Aug 25 at 2015 4:21 PM

SFC(P) Jonathan P. — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:21:42 -0400

I totally agree with this makes much more sence and weaves out the shyt bags

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Aug 25 at 2015 4:35 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:35:31 -0400

I agree on the waving the Magic wand. Before the Board put them to the test. Give them stripes, Make them leaders. Also stops the bitching and the moaning of the other E-4's in the squad saying that they are the same rank and they don't have to listen! it's just a lateral. A 4187 giveth and can taketh away. No ART-15's demotions, no bad counseling statements to ruin the career. Just the fact that dude you are young and suck as a leader. Thanks for your time and swap the stripes for a shield and move on. Then the soldiers gets a little more experience more training. Knows where he messed up and can change. Not pin the stripes on and oh you suck as a leader. Try and transfer said soldier of art-15 to reduce back to an E-4 and ruin a career!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 4:57 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:57:49 -0400

I support it. It'll provide the soldier a chance to properly develop leadership skills.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 5:13 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:13:20 -0400

I would agree. When I got my first team leader slot my maturity level wasn't there. My leaders tried to develop me, tried to help me grow into a leader and though I had the knowledge, I lacked the skill and maturity, so my platoon sergeant at the time had the foresight to pull me from that position, and put me where I can be an asset. Fast forward to today in the guard component, and that kind of action by leaders won't happen. Army wide a policy needs to be implemented of "put out, or step out" give corporal to e4 team leaders, give them the resources and support to succeed, if they succeed quit wasting time and pin them, if they fail put them where their experience is useful. This trend of promoting people to their level of incompetence hurts the military as a whole.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2015 5:17 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:17:16 -0400

Yes, I do agree with you. Spc P's should earn the Cpl stripes. This will empower them and motivate other jnr enlisted as well.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Aug 25 at 2015 5:44 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:44:43 -0400

In the late sixties we had lots of corporals in basic training units and AIT schools. We were always short of drill sergeants so the 3rd Army NCO Academy created a drill corporal course. It was the same as the drill sergeant course except two weeks shorter. People selected for the course could be either specialists or PFCs. Upon completion of the course they got corporal stripes and were assigned as an assistant to a drill sergeant. When they were promoted to E5 they could go back to the academy and take the other two weeks and become a regular drill sergeant. If they didn't hack it as a drill corporal they went back to being a Sp4 and were sent on their way. Most did a pretty good job and it helped them get promoted fast. It was easy to get rid of the ones who didn't. I don't know if a program like that would work today or if it would work for other jobs but it worked for us then.

Response by SGT Jay Thorne made Aug 25 at 2015 5:50 PM

SGT Jay Thorne — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:50:24 -0400

In the mid 90's 3rd Corp on Fort Hood made everybody that completed PLDC corporals didn't really work the way it should. Soon after I recieved PCS'ed too Korea where i had to take stripes off but then was promoted to E-5 SGT next month. While at Ft Hood the NCO didn't conssidder me as one and neither did the EM. Corporal is a shit rank unless given power by the Company level unit

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made Aug 25 at 2015 7:07 PM

SGT Patrick Reno — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 19:07:15 -0400

I think that is spot on. When I passed the E-5 board there was a freeze on spending, so all promotions were frozen. I was slotted for a squad leader spot. So they gave me a lateral promotion from Spec. 4 to Corporal. Then I could fill the squad leader spot. It was kind of cool, I was the only Corporal in the whole Battalion. I think it would be the best way to set these E-4's apart from the others and give them some leadership training and better prepare them to be NCO'S.

Response by SGT Ronnie Warford made Aug 25 at 2015 8:27 PM

SGT Ronnie Warford — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 20:27:15 -0400

You don't need stripes to exercise initiative and motivate others around you. Putting on corporal would be a slap in the face to most soldiers. If they show promise as a specialist then mentor coach and guide them. Soldiers don't respect corporals who think just because they have 2 stripes they can treat the soldiers like crap.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 1:17 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 01:17:42 -0400

The magic wand is just 4187 signed by the commander. While I generally give the corpral stripes to my e4 in tm ldr positions, I may hold off a little bit to see how he takes charge without relying on the baby nco stripes to get his men to follow him. It helps to back him up ie, enforce parade rest from his team to that leader whether or not he has the stripes. The stripes don't make the leader.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Aug 26 at 2015 5:52 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 05:52:55 -0400

SSG David Dickson Just because a SPC is promotable doesn't mean they can be a CPL. By regs they need to be in a leadership position and not all SPC(P) are in such a position. Now for your question of how to make them relevant. I treated my CPLs exactly like they were SGTs. Not all NCOs do that. A lot of them hammer CPLs with the lesser taskings because they have to have an NCO present. I did not do that. It was like when you get frocked. You get to do the work of the rank you are frocked to but don't get the pay.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 2:16 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 14:16:57 -0400

Now I think it would be different per unit. Because when I first arrived at my unit shortly after I was acting squad leader while I was rear d plus also I held squad leader position as a pv2. Love the idea wish BIG army would notice our intelligence

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 3:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 15:11:30 -0400

Honestly, with the new pin-on requirements for E5, it makes sense to make more use of the CPL rank.

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/enlisted/2015/08/17/changes-ncos-new-requirements-and-promotion-points/31410931/

Changes for NCOs: New requirements and promotion points

Starting Jan. 1, soldiers must meet new education requirements to get promoted to sergeant and staff sergeant.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 7:14 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:14:02 -0400

The army should go back to the older rank system. So those who don't want to become NCOs don't have to.
However, leave it available with incentive.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Aug 27 at 2015 2:18 PM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:18:31 -0400

That sounds reasonable to me.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Aug 27 at 2015 3:19 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:19:25 -0400

Sounds like a plan to me... I never went to the board and got my "P"... too busy keeping birds flying, and enjoying what little "down time" I had was more important. When I PCS'd to a different unit, I knew I wasn't going to make the Army a career so I didn't bother.

However, we had a CPL that came from a unit that didn't require the level of work, consequently he spent more time developing professionally... but wasn't as good at the MOS. So while I had awards and points, had run my own engine shop, filled slots meant for 8 soldiers, he had the stripes. That's fine, he followed the course that earned them... it just seemed like the course was flawed.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 27 at 2015 3:46 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:46:16 -0400

It is important that the soldiers see the NCOs are empowering corporals.

Response by SPC James Burkett II made Aug 28 at 2015 4:33 AM

SPC James Burkett II — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 04:33:38 -0400

CPL is a rank that the Army forgets about SPC(P) should be CPL it would set them apart and give them a little boost to move forward and it could help solve the issue of the dreaded Buck SGT.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2015 2:25 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 02:25:11 -0400

The problem here is the misuse of promotions to CPL. It's original intention was to indicate the leadership role and responsibility of a fire team leader which is found only in combat arms MOS's. If you're not leading soldiers, there is no need for you to be a CPL. Corporal is not a rank that is meant to denote promotable status, yet that is where I see it most. I feel that the use of Corporal rank should be highly scrutinized and that those who hold the rank should at least be responsible for the health and welfare of actual soldiers. Otherwise, Specialist is just fine for the masses.

Response by SPC Anthony Davis made Aug 31 at 2015 5:28 AM

SPC Anthony Davis — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:28:46 -0400

First check your facts, not all MOS's use corporals. I know back in my days in Aviation you were given SPC4 because you deserve the promotion but one of two things. First they didn't need a squad leader, second your MOS doesn't allow you to have the corporal rank

Response by SPC John Drummey made Sep 1 at 2015 8:23 PM

SPC John Drummey — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 20:23:50 -0400

spc are the backbone of the working force, its not a cpl or a sgt that is going to fix a problem. The spc may rock the sham sheild but if you want those aircraft up and running it will the spc to have it up and running the fastest. if you get rid of the spc and only have cpl then you will be relying on pfc's to fix things and you will see a lot more broken aircraft.

Response by SPC Paul Chavarria made Sep 2 at 2015 1:15 AM

SPC Paul Chavarria — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 01:15:04 -0400

That's actually an amazing idea although some spcs will become lazier after getting the rank so just gotta be careful with it

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Oct 26 at 2015 3:49 PM

SSG Audwin Scott — Mon, 26 Oct 2015 15:49:54 -0400

We make them relevant by just like you said SSG Dickson, I was actually latterly promoted to corporal and placed in a squad leader mode because we were short NCO's and I was also promotable.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2015 12:22 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Oct 2015 00:22:22 -0400

What do you do with a "private E4" that due to college, comes out of AIT with E4 rate and barely 6 months TIS? If they happen to make it to secondary zone with 18 months TIS, they typically only have about 10-12 months time outside of training. Do these soldiers, after getting their "p" merit the Corporal Stripes? Does just the fact that they were recommended in the secondary zone justify their leadership potential as a corporal, even though they have only about a year of time to establish themselves as potential leaders?

I am just posing these points as things to consider in this discussion. In general, I agree with most of the poster's assessment about making SPC (p) a CPL

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 9:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:35:02 -0500

That position is a double edge sword good and bad. It has the power to command the troops so long as its not abused but no where to go up in rank unless a E5 is promoted or retires leaving the slot vacant. If there is a lazy old trimmer in you way that likes his power position you may only have one option around him is to transfer.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2015 1:36 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Nov 2015 01:36:16 -0500

You make them corporals, they waste SGT slots on MTOE, and reduce your chances of getting slotted incoming personnel.