How do we "police up" our recruiters?

Fri, 11 Apr 2014 01:00:04 -0400

I know we have all head of the "bad" recruiters. I know, personally, I had a few recruiters try to lie to me about different options. Fortunately, I had military family members and friends to help guide me as well. However, I have seen many instances where recruiters told recruits to lie or hide information on their paperwork or made promises that were obviously false. Recently, some of this "advice" came back to bite a good friend of mine who may lose his MOS. While, I know everyone is accountable for themselves, and the members of MEPS encourage you to be honest, how do we "police-up" the recruiters who are encouraging recruits to make bad decisions? I would think as a recruiter, you are looking to pick your replacements and future teammates. I would expect you would want the best in these men and women. Thanks.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2014 8:45 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 08:45:40 -0400

I have seen some recruiters utilize some abhorrent behavior, especially when the quotas were high. They would tell applicants to lie about the most rediculous things, then these same trainees would be busted during BCT. We had three get pulled out of my Reception alone for major criminal issues that did not show on the recruiters precursory police checks. All of them claim they were told to lie. I have had a few applicants come to me, or to others that I know, and ask if what their recruiter told them was accurate in regards to omitting information from thier background.  With the quotas being lower now, I would figure that this would have subsided quite a bit. I know that the majority of recruiters are great NCOs, but these few that would continue shady practices are not living by the NCO Creed or providing the best prospects for our services. I think that if an applicant is busted lying or omitting information at MEPS or during another portion of the application process, that the Station Commander should be investigating where the recruiter failed. Did the applicant lie to the recruiter or was the applicant coached to lie? Given, it will be a "he said, they said" sort of deal, but you might be able to develop a pattern.  As far as recruiters lying about certain options or painting a rosier picture about the Army....that's a tough one. Often people will hear what they want to hear, or interpret things differently. Given, if it is blatant, then we are talking about a problem. However, I feel a lot of the onus on this falls on the applicants. Many fail to do their own research. They know that they want to be the next Super Trooper Special Forces Qualified Underwater Nuclear Physicist Space Shuttle Door Gunner, but they have no idea what that really entails. Heck, they often don't even understand the basics about what is going to happen and what their options are. Recruiters will give them the basic information, but if they are not researching more or asking deeper questions, they seem very distraught when things are not exactly like what they thought it would be.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 11 at 2014 1:43 PM

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:43:28 -0400

I was a recruiter from 2003-2006 and I never lied about anything.  You can't get away with lying when a kid is sitting there with a smart phone.  I found that the best way to get information across was to inundate them with data.  You want to be a 11B?  Here is the MOS description for 10-40 level, your rates of promotion, your pay scale, Other similar jobs in case 11B isn't available, and a whole lot more.  They can fact-check it all if they want to.  Lying to someone isn't necessary and recruiters know better. Here's a funny story: I was interviewing this kid with his father (Who refused to sit down) and we got to the discussion of compensation.  So I pulled out the pay scale and showed what they would be earning as an E-1 - E-3 (If they could advance prior to shipping out).  The father grabbed it and started yelling at me!  "I served in Vietnam and I got $68 a month!  There's no way a PVT makes this much, you're a liar!!!"  I took out the expletives because there were a lot.  I tried to explain that times had changed and he could go online and would find out the same information.  He just kept screaming that I was a piece of shit recruiter who was lying like all the rest! I didn't know how to react.. I kind of stood there blinking and not moving.  Did that just happen?

Response by SFC Stephen P. made Apr 11 at 2014 6:12 PM

SFC Stephen P. — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 18:12:50 -0400

Remove the mission, no incentive to lie.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2014 8:37 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 20:37:06 -0400

All the blame can't be put on the recruiter. The individual needs to know when to put their foot down and be the better man/woman.

Integrity is personal to each one of us, why let someone else morph it?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2014 11:01 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 11:01:24 -0400

I can tell you, currently serving as a recruiter, that command is aware of these things and is policing them up.  The sort of thing you mentioned, lies, instructions to conceal, etc. are punishable offenses, and the command does investigate reports.  At this point, even knowing that a fellow recruiter did these things and not reporting them is basis for relief. I respectfully disagree with those who think removal of quotas will fix the problem.  Because just like any other job in the Army, we have a mission to accomplish, and we need to try our best, within the bounds of our values, to accomplish that mission.  That said, USAREC has taken steps to lower the individual stress on recruiters by making missions assigned by Center, and not to an individual recruiter.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2014 11:01 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 11:01:28 -0400

I can tell you, currently serving as a recruiter, that command is aware of these things and is policing them up. The sort of thing you mentioned, lies, instructions to conceal, etc. are punishable offenses, and the command does investigate reports. At this point, even knowing that a fellow recruiter did these things and not reporting them is basis for relief.

I respectfully disagree with those who think removal of quotas will fix the problem. Because just like any other job in the Army, we have a mission to accomplish, and we need to try our best, within the bounds of our values, to accomplish that mission. That said, USAREC has taken steps to lower the individual stress on recruiters by making missions assigned by Center, and not to an individual recruiter.

Response by CPT Erik Fedde made Apr 28 at 2014 1:03 AM

CPT Erik Fedde — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 01:03:27 -0400

Recruiters are policed in a variety of ways. The first step is the station commander, who reviews all the paperwork and talks to a potential recruit. The next step is the MEPS, where a recruit has to take the ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery) and a physical. If they qualify on the ASVAB, and pass the physical (not guaranteed) they see a career counselor. The career counselor is the one who actually draws up the enlistment contract. This is a legal document explaining the length of service (to include individual ready reserve time after active duty), the recruit's Military Occupational Speciality, and, if there is a choice, where the recruit will be stationed after advanced individual training. This session is usually where the problems start. A lot of recruits don't actually read the contract. So, when they find out that the Army is not for them (usually in Basic Training), they say the "recruiter lied to them." Now the real policing starts. A recruiting company commander (not the commander of the company of the recruiter) is assigned to investigate the entire process from recruiter to MEPS. This has the same force as a pre-court martial investigation. Once it is done, the investigation goes through the recruiting battalion commander (a lieutenant colonel) and on to the recruiting brigade commander (a full colonel.) Either one of them can pull a recruiter out of a station, and do anything from a written letter of reprimand up to demotion. If the offense is bad enough, there may even be a court martial. That's pretty rare. Over the years, a series of scandals- from recruiters coaching recruits on the ASVAB, for example- have forced the Army Recruiting Command to really tighten up on standards- and quite often, the Company Commander and First Sergeant of a "bad" recruiter will also catch a reprimand. Physical standards also have been tightened up- it used to be that a recruit could lie about things like asthma, even schizophrenia (don't laugh- I saw it happen and the kid went to Iraq for two tours). Football players were notorious liars- they would deny ever having a concussion (name one football player who didn't take a hit that cleaned his clock) or deny having problems with their knees. The physical is awfully hard to catch problems- and the docs assume the recruit is telling the truth.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2014 5:27 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Apr 2014 05:27:03 -0400

I dont know how you police up people being dishonest. How is it policed up in life in general? As you mentioned when you joined you had people lie to you about options which I would doubt, no offense, but recruiters don't choose options they will let you select whats available theres no incentive not to. Now the problem is many people know people who have joined or who are in or were in the military and somehow believe that makes them a subject matter expert. Basically unless the person your advice is coming from has availability to updated recruiting regulations and messages they have no idea what can get you disqualified and what makes you qualified. Now as far as your friend losing his MOS if he/she is losing their MOS I guess thats a good thing in the end because as you said we want the best men and women in the MOS's that they are qualified to be in. Now I believe that the recruiter should have been honest as well but Im not ready to blame just that recruiter when the applicant your friend had many chances to reveal accurate information. Not trying to lash out at you but it just seems that we are painting recruiters with broad strokes not all recruiters lie and the ones that do generally get found out.