How do we refocus our efforts on recovering individual liberty in the USA?

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 17:54:05 -0400

I took this photo at Seattle Pride yesterday. Political equality issues aside, I think this demonstrates a level of individual liberty that we should strive for in the US. Not just on specific days, but everyday. If you look close, you'll see all types of people - black, white, Asian, other; children, parents, youth, workforce and retired; gay, straight, trans, bi, and everything in between; rich, poor, middle-class, unemployed, government workers, business owners; clothed, nude, sparkle painted, puppy masked; all aspects of humanity are represented in this picture. All of these people, getting along, having a good time, being who they want to be.

This is individual liberty. This is what we should be striving for - for everyone, everyday. How do we get there from where we are today?

Link to the same photo where you should be able to zoom in and see more - https://goo.gl/photos/e9mCriVCPZFvpQAf6

New photo by Bryan Zeski

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 6:09 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 18:09:28 -0400

When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty - Thomas Jefferson

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the limits of the law" because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. - Thomas Jefferson

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 6:09 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 18:09:37 -0400

Fewer laws and less government.

As Government expands liberty must subside.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 7:38 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:38:39 -0400

Congressional term limits would be a start!

Response by PO2 Robert Aitchison made Jun 26 at 2017 8:05 PM

PO2 Robert Aitchison — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 20:05:51 -0400

We need to move away from political extremism. Adherents to either political conservatism or liberalism will seek to undermine individual liberties (in different ways).

Response by MSgt Jason McClish made Jun 26 at 2017 9:58 PM

MSgt Jason McClish — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 21:58:19 -0400

Individual liberties have been attacked for as long as I remember. A more united country would more than likely translate into more individual liberty. Though not mutually inclusive, there are more similarities between the two than differences. People as whole need to listen more than we do. Listen to understand not to talk. HUGE problem for just about all of us, myself included. By listening, we'll be more susceptible to the agree to disagree mindset and respect the opinions, versus a tendency to completely disregard someone's opinions and even loathe that person for that viewpoint. Academia is part of the problem as the open flow of ideas and viewpoints is often squashed on even graded on the professor's opinions on certain subjects. But I digress.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2017 12:44 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:44:47 -0400

The issue lies within how you define liberty. In your example, liberty for that group doesn't include my family because I wouldn't take my kids somewhere with nude or sparkle painted people. I personally don't think that sort of behavior should be on display outside. I'm not bashing them or their belief system or telling them how they should live their lives. It's just that the way some people choose to live directly interferes with how others choose to do so. Is that individual liberty?

I think it's great when people with different views and beliefs can get together peacefully. That's what we all should be doing. All the time. But we should do so while also respecting those around us. What happens when who I want to be conflicts with who you want to be? While nude people may not offend everyone, I think we can all agree that something offends us. What if one guy in that group wanted to play music at 500 decibels with no regard for those around him? That's just him being him right? No, obviously there are lines. Liberty does not mean we can all do whatever we want at all times. I realize that you did not say that outright. It's just the message I got from your post as well as our society.

Response by SSgt Holden M. made Jun 27 at 2017 2:06 PM

SSgt Holden M. — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:06:59 -0400

I agree with you but individuals also need to have a respect for individual liberty of people that don't agree with them. The first thing that pops into my head in the bakery being sued by a gay couple for refusing to make the gay couple a wedding cake because it goes against the sole owner and operators beliefs. It is the gay couples individual liberty to be gay but it's also the sole owner and operators of the bakery's individual liberty to stick to their beliefs. Individual Liberty can't be one sided or only when it's convenient.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2017 4:35 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:35:17 -0400

My sister stood on the corner for 22 hours at the pride parade in a large city near by my home as a police officer. She had to witness people breaking the law - and be told to leave them alone because they are a protected class of citizen. They are gay so therefore public sex acts are permitted. Nudity permitted. The number of drunken slap fights and violence was off the charts. She was abused and taunted and called names for being a cop.

Yeah - super open minded celebration of liberty. If this was a "hetro" parade - theyd be arrested for public sex acts and nudity but because they are a protect class - cops must look the other way.

Nudity and public sex acts should be an offense you go to jail for if in public. Wanna join a nudist colony, by all means...but there was a time when polite society was polite and people had ethics and morals. that time is gone and it is not a good thing.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Jun 27 at 2017 5:29 PM

SGT Tony Clifford — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 17:29:55 -0400

That's a difficult question. Ultimately things like this are great, but it doesn't truly reach to the heart of the matter. To be sure, LGBT rights are about individual liberty. The real problem however is that people tend to view rights as something granted by governments. In fact the government more often than not restricts rights. You're born with rights. The tricky part is that liberty is scary, it's ugly, it angers people who disagree, and it's always one generation from extinction. Sadly, we're closer to this date than ever before. People now believe that they have a right to infringe on others rights because others freedom offends them. For freedom to exist, we must allow horrible things to be spoken. In a marketplace of ideas, no subject is off limits. Silencing bad ideas allows them to fester and become entrenched. Good ideas always win out when open dialogue is allowed.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Jun 27 at 2017 6:00 PM

SFC Jim Ruether — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 18:00:01 -0400

I don't see me there at all? I wonder why? Maybe because I am a straight, Christian, hetero-sexual, male who likes women, guns and beer.......possibly? Oh and the order is correct too!

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jun 27 at 2017 10:27 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 22:27:13 -0400

How does this demonstrate "individual liberty"? I don't see it. Now if there were someone in the midst of this crowd of homogeneous ideologues espousing some alternate narrative and not being vilified for it, that would demonstrate "individual liberty". This no more demonstrates individual liberty than a Nazi rally during Hitler's reign. They got along as well. No, I'm not saying these people are Nazis. I'm merely drawing a parallel between their group behavior and a truly vile example.