How do you deal with Cadets/Officer Candidates in your unit?

2016-02-23T14:12:20-05:00

In various functions you may find a Cadet/Officer Candidate/Midshipman in your unit. I know that West Point sends their Cadets to units to get exposure to how officers function in the field. Also, ROTC units send their cadets to reserve units. I am not sure about the Reserves but I know in the Guard they have a program in which soldiers that contract with the Army will drill with their previous Guard unit in order to gain exposure much the same way as West Point.

I have seen this occur over and over again. I can't really say I have seen a consistent approach to this. Some of my acquaintances that attended West Point had a great experience while I have seen some Cadets not find the same to be true.

Has your active duty or reserve unit dealt with this? What have you seen to be some of the better practices to have or to avoid?

If you are a cadet what have you dealt with if you did participate with a unit? What would you recommend going forward as to aid future cadets?

Response by BG David Fleming III made Feb 23 at 2016 2:14 PM

2016-02-23T14:14:20-05:00

Mentor them as you would any young officer! They are our future leaders always keep that in the back of your mind.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 2:16 PM

2016-02-23T14:16:37-05:00

When I was a BN CSM the commander basically made them the platoon leader for the duration of their CTLT. I ensured the enlisted Soldiers treated them the same as a commissioned officer, I mean they are going to be commissioned eventually. I know the whole "they are just college kids/cadets", the proper way to address a cadet is cadet, blah blah blah. The purpose of CTLT is for the cadet to experience what it's going to be like when they are commissioned and are charged with leading Soldiers. They should be treated accordingly.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Feb 23 at 2016 2:21 PM

2016-02-23T14:21:20-05:00

It greatly depends on the attitude of the Cadet. If they have the attitude they are an officer and want to throw their weight around, then I've seen them get treated as the glorified E5 they are. If they have the attitude they are there to learn, assist and learn, then they get treated as the future officer they will become.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 2:23 PM

2016-02-23T14:23:17-05:00

In my last unit - the cadet spent time with each section of our company:
HQ section - the cadet had a look into what a command team does on a daily basis, as well as what the support staff does and what they bring to the table.
CMOC - the cadet got an overview of who does what within a CMOC and ultimately - what does a CMOC do.
CA Team - The cadet shadowed a different team every few days to gain a clearer understanding of team dynamics, what CA teams do/plan for in garrison.

In previous units - the cadet was usually assigned to a company and either left in the HQ section or "loaned" out to a platoon, to shadow the PL and PSG for however long the cadet was there for.

When I was in the Navy - the middies would be assigned to a work center and were treated like everyone else within that work center...so if there was dirty work or painting to be done...the middie was getting dirty like everyone else.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 2:29 PM

2016-02-23T14:29:33-05:00

I was an SMP Cadet for 2 years. In that time I had mixed experiences. I had one Commander who was very interested in mentoring us and had us shadow his PLs. During annual training he had us run a CO TOC while the Company shot gunnery. His replacement would've been happy to shove us in a closet and forget about us. Thankfully, a Commander in another Company was short on Lieutenants and asked for us to fill PL slots. I had the opportunity serve as an acting PL for our BN Scouts during a gunnery cycle, which was great experience.

Since taking command I've had two Cadets assigned to me. The senior Cadet I had fill in as my XO, while the junior Cadet I assigned as my RTO. This decision was more based on the individuals than any sort of design however. Within my Brigade I know there are several Cadets filling PL positions. Overall I think the SMP program is a great opportunity for ROTC Cadets.

The biggest issue I've seen is units treating Cadets like overpaid Privates. If the unit leadership doesn't value the opportunity to mentor future leaders, the Soldiers won't either. There's nothing worse than being a Cadet in a unit that views you as a burden.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Feb 23 at 2016 2:36 PM

2016-02-23T14:36:49-05:00

Back when I was at the Basic School in 1982 they pitched an assignment to some lucky dozen or so newly graduated lieutenants. Or so we thought. Stick around for the Summer and honcho the upcoming junior Middies at their USMC familiarization course, which was called CORPSTRAMID (who could make up something like that?).

I volunteered but I didn’t get picked. In the fall one of my TBS buds showed up at Camp LeJeune. He got picked for this deal. “How did it go?” I innocently asked. He said it was a nightmare. Breaking curfew, drunk, fraternization, unruly. Like a bunch of children. Yuck.

Walt

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 23 at 2016 2:52 PM

2016-02-23T14:52:06-05:00

Just pretend they are 3rd Lieutenants and treat them as you would any other bright eyed and bushy tailed new LT...

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 2:53 PM

2016-02-23T14:53:33-05:00

We get the CTLT from West Point every summer. We put them with a platoon leader so that they can "shadow" that officer to see what day-to-day operations are like. We also give them tasks like a simple OPORD, PT session, etc. At the end of the process the BN CDR gives them an OER. Be careful about matching them up with the right platoon leader. Don't pair one up with "that guy"....there is one on every unit.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 23 at 2016 2:56 PM

2016-02-23T14:56:35-05:00

I was a SMP cadet with an Army Reserve unit. The two 2LTs over me talked about how to look pretty in the uniform and not to do anything with the hands in front of the enlisted. I learned profound bad lessons from them.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 3:08 PM

2016-02-23T15:08:08-05:00

My last brigade received ROTC and USMA Cadets every summer as part of the CTLT program. We did our best to give them a taste of what being a Lieutenant in the Army is. Unfortunately, a lot of time does go into sugar coating it, but we did make it fairly realistic. As a ROTC Cadet I participated in the CTLT program and got something out of it, not as much as some other cadets in other units on the same post, but still something. The important part is not to sugar coat anything and don't change the training cycle for them, just do your best to give them a true experience covering field time, admin time, and training time. Include them in everything and try to prepare them for what is to come. Help them to understand what your unit and branch really does so they can choose wisely. Also, get them exposed to all of the aspects of the unit possible. They are there because they want to be whatever branch the unit primarily is, that doesn't mean they'll get it, so try to give them a good idea if everything do that they are prepared for anything.

Response by SGT Robert Cupp made Feb 23 at 2016 3:24 PM

2016-02-23T15:24:22-05:00

Cadidiots. All the pay of an nco but the respect of a pfc.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 3:31 PM

2016-02-23T15:31:29-05:00

I have always, and will always, treat and mentor them the same as a brand new 2LT coming into my unit and ask for guidance from the NCO side of the house. Sure, being an NCO and a mentor to a future Officer may seem a bit weird, but bearing in mind that having both sides of the house do the mentoring, I think it helps give the future LTs a better and broader perspective of the game as a whole.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 3:50 PM

2016-02-23T15:50:43-05:00

In my last unit, we had three cadets that shadowed our PLs. Our CO put out that we were to treat them with respect, but we did not need to go to attention for them, salute them, or even call them sir (unless we chose to do so, out of habit). We referred to them as "Cadet So-and-So," but generally spoke to them the same as we would a civilian. Courteously and respectfully, but not as a superior, but an equal (the CO's reasoning was that they were still civilians, and we were to treat them as such).

Response by SGT Larry Prentice made Feb 23 at 2016 4:31 PM

2016-02-23T16:31:49-05:00

Treat them with the same respect you would an Officer but at the same time, mentor them from your NCO mind.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Feb 23 at 2016 4:35 PM

2016-02-23T16:35:37-05:00

West Point sends some up to Fort Drum every year. When I was a PL I gave instructions to mine and pretty much let him lead the platoon with supervision...as required by the program. He did alright but decided against Infantry. El O El.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Feb 23 at 2016 4:41 PM

2016-02-23T16:41:40-05:00

Mixed bag, those cadets.

In my Reserve unit, we have an ROTC cadet as our PL. She works well in her capacity and we give her the level of respect commensurate with her position and competencies with an eye toward her future commissioning. She belonged to our company as lower enlisted prior to this, so she has a working knowledge of what's up from down, which cannot be said of all cadets.

When I was on AD, I had the pleasure of a front row seat to my platoon sergeant lighting up a future ring-knocker cadet who suffered from the delusions associated with a terminal case of a General Patton complex during our 6 week NIE/field training exercise.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 4:48 PM

2016-02-23T16:48:49-05:00

We have 2 cadets in my unit, however, they tend to be left to just float around with no mission all weekend. I ended up being the battle buddy for our female cadet and she hung out with me and my senior enlisted. The other male cadet was hanging out with the not so desirable PFCs and SPCs. During this drill weekend the officers were involved in a executive decision making class that lasted the whole 3 days at drill, but wouldn't it make sense to have our future officers just involved or briefed on what the officers went through instead of putting up the drash with enlisted and most likely learning bad habits from the ones that tend to be in trouble. In short our officers at my unit need to take these cadets under their wing and show them what is generally expected of them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 4:51 PM

2016-02-23T16:51:26-05:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I was enlisted before I became an SMP cadet which I had to do because of policy. It didn't change a lot for me within my unit, with the exception that I sat in on more leadership meetings and had more to do with planning. I still worked just as hard as I had before, I was still a part of the team. I was asked to "straighten out" other cadets. When comparing notes with other SMPs over their experience, they said they were asked to do virtually nothing in their units and spent most of their time studying.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Feb 23 at 2016 4:51 PM

2016-02-23T16:51:43-05:00

In all my Reserve units going back to the late 70's all cadets were first unit members that joined ROTC while in college, therefore they were SMP cadets who worked within their MOS while being mentored by NCO and junior officers.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 4:55 PM

2016-02-23T16:55:11-05:00

Kind of depends on the cadet. I have seen worthless lumps of clay that just sit around on their phones or reading and I have seen highly motivated ones that try to do everything they can. These latter types are the kind that get leadership tasks in the unit such as convoy OIC range safety officer.

Personally, I like to treat cadets as if they were already LT's..at least when they act like it.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Feb 23 at 2016 5:31 PM

2016-02-23T17:31:18-05:00

Teach them to listen to their NCO's , and to treat them with respect. They need to remember NCOs and lower enlisted will cover their butts in a fire fight.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 6:43 PM

2016-02-23T18:43:47-05:00

While my experience is with midshipmen, the same principles apply: teach, mentor, train. While I, personally, wouldn't give them command opportunities, I'd make sure they have the opportunity to shadow the SMEs and commanders IOT gain an understanding of what type of things they'd have to make decisions on in the future. Make sure you ask questions to see not only if they understand but to view their decision making process; that last point especially, so you can guide them in that capacity.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Feb 23 at 2016 9:00 PM

2016-02-23T21:00:20-05:00

With kindness and a firm will as they find their voice providing them the best information I have and standing ready to teach any task I know... MilitantCrip

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2016 11:39 PM

2016-02-23T23:39:41-05:00

If you are lucky enough to get a cadet that sees it as a learning opportunity vs a vacation from wherever, then you can treat them as fellow officers. On the other hand I've had to be fairly strict with a couple cause I'm not a taxi, a chaperone, multi party sponsor or a "bro". Treat me with respect till they prove otherwise.

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Feb 24 at 2016 7:33 AM

2016-02-24T07:33:52-05:00

I started out treating them like a unwelcome pimple
Then as I advanced in my career I understood what they were and did I had mostly amazing cadets that all turned out to be awesome officers
Every cadet except one was a Soldier from the unit that went SMP I was proud to assign them XO roles, PL , Operations Officer etc etc
My Commander always had one as an XO and we discussed what position the Soldier would shadow in. I will say this the last three Cadets I was helping mentoring I viewed them as brand new LTs and had to reel them in as they were used to being joe. They always worked longer hours and harder than others as they were given responsibilities that helped the unit out immensely

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 8:39 AM

2016-02-24T08:39:02-05:00

In my unit we basically treat them as an NCOs, given basic tasks to complete and such. Though one was Beach master 24/7 during gunnery last AT. The company really likes him so we jokingly call the room to attention, salute him and over do it with "Sirs" which really ticks him off. He keeps saying "I am not a sir yet dang it!"

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2016 3:08 PM

2016-02-24T15:08:53-05:00

I've seen Cadets treated two ways:
1) Like a poorly treated Specialist.
2) Like a junior officer.

By all means, please treat them like a junior officer. These people don't have to come to your unit. They are doing this to learn and become better officers. They are hungry for mentorship and learning more about the daily functioning of the military. If you treat them (or any other soldier) as someone you have to babysit, that's who they'll become.

Pair them up with another officer, preferably at least a senior 1LT, not a 2LT who hasn't even been to BOLC, and let them shadow them, then slowly start taking on more responsibilities.

My last unit was near the University of Alabama, so we always had ROTC cadets. While a platoon leader is usually the desired shadow position, we've been able to successfully use them in the BDE S3 and S4 shops, as well as HHC XO. Those three sections always have more work than people, so having someone willing to learn, who is more than likely more tech saavy than some of your CPTs or senior NCOs is usually a godsend.

Teach them well, because who knows when you'll run into them again.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Feb 24 at 2016 5:12 PM

2016-02-24T17:12:25-05:00

As an SMP, I was an acting anti-Armor team Sergeant (with training wheels I didn't note at the time), shadowed the HHC CO CDR for a while, and was the commo PL. No "acting" involved in the second one, in any sense. Despite what the regs might say, I was the PL. The prior incumbent may or may not have had .... issues.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2016 1:17 AM

2016-02-25T01:17:57-05:00

So, it's a lot of extra work to manage, and I find that in 95% of ARNG/USAR units, cadets are mismanaged. SMP should be used as a broadening opportunity for cadets, as well as a recruitment tool. Some cadets have already committed to the Guard/Reserve through Minuteman Scholarships or GRFDs, but a lot of them also haven't.

Usually, a cadet gets attached to one PL and then they shadow that person for the duration of their cadet careers. I think this model gets it wrong. I honestly think that cadets should be on a rotation system, and should be exposed to various roles, whether that be various leadership positions and branches. If the cadet is interested in AV, SUTA them to go to the Aviation unit to get that exposure.

I also find that this is also an opportune time to expose them to things that aren't taught in ROTC, whether that be in the regs, etc. I think it's important to keep them engaged, have them conduct tasks, and then adjust fire as necessary.

Response by CPT(P) David Thorp made Feb 26 at 2016 10:37 AM

2016-02-26T10:37:22-05:00

Front leaning rest

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2016 6:18 PM

2016-02-26T18:18:37-05:00

I had an ROTC cadet in my unit. He was given all the shit duty's: mess officer. property book officer, etc. and he was kidded a lot. I ran into him about 15 years later at FORSCOM and he was an AGR LTC. You never know.

Response by MAJ James Fitzgerald made Feb 29 at 2016 5:08 PM

2016-02-29T17:08:24-05:00

I had two ROTC Cadets as a CPT...one was simply outstanding, while the other one was not as polished and poised. I had them work with each section chief, got input from that section chief, then worked with the E-7's, Top and the XO, getting input from all of them...I don't know whether they made the military a career, either AD or Reserves, but I asked the team to be tough on them during each cycle, but not a 'horse's rear' as it were. I think they received some quality input, support and counseling during that time...I know this, they were not mistreated, but they were not spoon fed either...they worked hard to get better...I appreciated that about both of them...they were addressed as Cadet and last name.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 6:32 PM

2016-02-29T18:32:09-05:00

I'm actually in the process of getting a Cadet to SMP with my current unit. It's a fantastic training tool that many National Guard/Reserves units don't know how to use. As long as the Cadet knows AR 600-20 and is motivated to succeed, I'll love having them around!