How do you deal with mediocre superiors and their lack of leadership?

CPT Chris Loomis — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 21:52:29 -0400

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 9:54 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 21:54:34 -0400

I submit that you do your best, CPT Chris Loomis, and set the example for YOUR troops. While you're at it, you may have an influence on those mediocre superiors. They'll see you doing things right and they just might follow your lead.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Oct 26 at 2014 10:02 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 22:02:17 -0400

I will answer your question in a more general way which is "how to influence up" which is not dependent upon if your superiors are good or bad:
1. Use Sun Tzu. Know yourself, your enemy (superiors in this case) and the terrain. Know yourself by knowing your own strengths/weaknesses, goals/objectives, opportunities/threats and endstate. Know your superiors by knowing their guidance, personalities, and process/procedures/systems. Know the terrain by knowing your operational environment.
2. Know doctrine. Best time to influence is before highers OPORD (not after) and know echelon timelines and issues.
3. Take decisive action. Do this by anticipating and acting, creating opportunities for engagement, pushing information higher, proactively engaging, and picking your head up from the bayonet fights that you are in.
4. Do not expect decisive results on every engagement. Be tactically patient and plant seeds early. Then harvest these seeds at the appropriate time.
5. If all else fails, remember that among your job, your boss, and your current location; one of the three will most likely change out within the next year.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 10:50 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 22:50:26 -0400

Personally I have always been blunt with subordanates, peers and superiors. I have never been disrespectful or untactful in my criticism, concerns or suggestions. But have never been afraid to step on toes if necessary. To be a true leader you must watch, listen and learn from all sources and avenues to develop your successful approach. If you fail to take criticism and suggestions you will fail. So don't be afraid to add your concerns or suggestions. Good luck!

Response by Sgt Stephen Springer made Oct 26 at 2014 11:03 PM

Sgt Stephen Springer — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 23:03:01 -0400

Have a good idea and make it look like it was theirs. Timing is everything

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 10:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 10:03:21 -0400

I manage my "four walls" and take care of my formation while shielding them from as much as I can. Hopefully it rubs off on those appointed over me.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 12:28 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:28:58 -0400

Sir, John Maxwell has a course entitled the 360 degree leader and it specifically addresses leading up. Which is basically working to help you leader be more effective as a leader and manager. There are about 7 steps but the first one is the most important and that is do your job very well first. Without doing your job extremely well and gaining credibility with your leader you will never be able to influence them in any way.

Once you have gained that credibility and rapport with you leader you can then help them to become better. Also, you should probably be able to speak to their failings in a manner that invites discussion...not easy for most of us!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 5:08 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 05:08:55 -0500

I view myself as a "bullshit umbrella". PV2 Snuffy doesn't need to hear the waffling back and forth about "Is there LIK this month?" or stress about the fluidity of our next mission. He needs to be able to show up and execute. They don't need to see me sitting there, angrily throwing things around in my office....pissing and moaning about the trials that we all endure. They need to see me and know that I'm going to bust my ass to take care of them. Their only concern should be "How can I add to the team and support my leadership?" My concern is everything else.

I do my best to assess my leaders early and often. For me, I tend to push hard when it is important.....so at times I'm sure my superiors shake their head when they see me coming. I've ranted and raved in their offices like a madman when it's important....but it's because I care about my troops.

Mediocre/lack of leadership I can deal with more than incompetent/overinvolved leadership. I can guide my troops independently......sometimes pushing someone's nose out of my platoon/company is harder than dragging someone by the dog tag chain to get my Soldiers' needs met.
v/r,
CPT Butler

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2015 10:21 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Feb 2015 22:21:40 -0500

I have found it useful to only interact with them when absolutely necessary and focus on getting things done at the working level which is where the work gets done anyway. Being competent and being willing to share credit are keys to success in my opinion.

Response by CPT Keith Steinhurst made Feb 12 at 2015 8:39 AM

CPT Keith Steinhurst — Thu, 12 Feb 2015 08:39:18 -0500

Well LT I'll tell you - welcome back to the zero defect Army - when I first started LT OERs were not masked, then they were, now they are not - again . . . The idea was that there is a learning curve for junior officers and that a good leader would allow (within reasonable limits) their subordinates to make mistakes and learn by doing - I always tried to mentor my subordinate leaders and would, as long as their acts were not contrary to policy, regulation, or law, subsidize mistakes. Bad leadership happens. The best advice I can give to you and any other junior officer reading is this - you can not pick your 'boss' in the Army - so good, bad, or ugly, you will have to deal with it. The best way to deal with it IMO is to NOT take thing personally - it is not personal, it is the Army. Also, remember that whatever you are doing, it is the Army and the Army's - you don't own that product - it was produced on Army time using Army material and coordinated with other soldiers. Learn this, live it, love it and your time in ACUs will be enjoyable - don't and you will live in a miserable 'hell' of your own creation until you PCS or REFRAD. Cheers!

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Feb 12 at 2015 8:34 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:34:16 -0500

2LT Loomis, as an O1, your biggest job is to learn how to be an officer. What you got in Officer Training is of very limited use in the real world. Learn from your Senior Enlisted, learn from those above you in the chain.

You will always run into people with severe cranial-rectal inversions. Sometimes you have to just sick it up in the military. Learn from what you see, and try to avoid making the same mistakes you see them doing. However, I will counsel you with this aphorism, children in their teens think their parents are clueless idiots. When they are 35, they become amazed at how much wisdom their parents gained in 20 years. Note:the parents didn't change. ..

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Oct 22 at 2017 3:49 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Sun, 22 Oct 2017 15:49:33 -0400

The only mediocre leader we had was a Gs10... wasn’t worth a hill of beans. I be wotking with the cooks assigned me and getting production done showing them how to put more professionalism into their product.. he’d come along say I was wasting his money showing them ‘that stuff’. He was getting me to the point of doing s’thing Zi didn’t want to do... “Mr. L,
I ask you kindly to vacate my AO so I can instruct these young Airmen to be more
Professional in preparing their product., Please!”.. at that he purposely knocked the pan of garnishes on the floor.. I looked at him and looked at the mess he had made. I knew the NCOD upstairs and called him from the office.. then I went back to the kitchen snd suggested he take some more cough syrup, he was sounding hoarse.
(He drank that stuff like water and it was loaded with Codiene). A few minutes later the NCOD came down(it was the weekend). He smelled that guy’s breath and asked him to go upstairs with him..
he resisted at first and the TSG called up to the Operator to call Security Police he had an inebriated person in the kitchen ..
we had a small crew of Sec. Police assigned to the Hospital and they were ther in a matter of about 5 minutes. Later at his board hearing he insinuated I entrapped him. I stated that he should take some not drink half the bottle.. he put himself in the precarious sitrep.. They would have suspended him two months or check into mental health for alcoholism. (Which was 3 months but it go on his record as a medical leave). When he got off I was enroute to my new base in ND.
I had 6 days travel, 30 days leave. I used 3-1/2 To 4 days travel and no leave... that guy didn’t give up.. he said I cheated them out of 15 days work .. AF said I can use my leave or not use it.. I was a couple days into travel when I decided to get to base and sign in and save the leave. I had just had some leave in May.. The Civ. Said he was drawing up charges and I’d have to go back out and answer to them..
Grand Forks said; “don’t worry, you’re mission essential personnel here. We got you covered SSG. No civilian feather merchant is going to “F” with our aF Personnel . You belong to SAC, Now!
Now, that is what I call supportive.. All they knew is about the leave sitrep and that’s all they needed to know. Before I Left, The CMSG endorsed me a 8s and 9s
APR which was top of the line and forwarded Personnel a copy and gave me a copy and sent one ahead to my gaining Unit. I got a phone call from a friend in my Section and he was livid.. said he claimed that CSG had no Authority to endorse that like that(when in fact he did).
I had good faith that my Comrade was being truthful. I had my CMSG Super check to see if any amendment could be made. He assured me that it wojldn’t Matter, I’d been in the Command too long at that point(9 mo.).. excuse me for saying;.. I think that civ gs10 had a “hard-on” for rectifying what he thinks I put him through.. along with the leave sit-rep..

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Oct 22 at 2017 4:14 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sun, 22 Oct 2017 16:14:23 -0400

I guess it depends on the job and position you’re in. If it’s in the combat arms, such as training and leading soldiers into combat, you probably don’t have too much of that, otherwise soldiers will probably get killed. If it’s in a support position, I would probably try to work around them, unless I had no other choice. A lot of people that are in leadership positions, shouldn’t be…not that they’re bad people, they are just not natural leaders, no matter how much training they get. Just a thought.

Response by Sgt Michael Reyes made Dec 13 at 2018 2:00 AM

Sgt Michael Reyes — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 02:00:10 -0500

Let him know anonymously that he is going to get fragged during the next firefight unless he corrects himself.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jul 17 at 2019 6:50 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 06:50:12 -0400

You know, I entirely perceive your rationale for asking the question, I think, however, in all the time I was in, quite honestly, I never had one that was like that...God knows I was, on reflection, being entirely honest about it, at least till I learned gradually how to function in the role, albeit too late, as turned out to be the case, however, candidly, of all those I was under, and there were many, both active duty, as well as civil svc, none of them were ever like that, honest, incongruous and unlikely as that might seem...some also positively floored me, when I'd met them, honest, incl. one O-9 Apollo astronaut when I was at USAF OTS, the O-6 who was the Lackland OTS Commandant while I'd been there, he'd been a personal friend of the Apollo astronaut,and the O-6 CO of my unit, who'd just been selected for O-7, with whom I sat once for a solid hour, who'd been awarded the DFC, and, as I'd only learned much later, flew over 400 combat missions in O-2s in Vietnam...then there was the O-9 of my unit, whom I saw twice, the O-6 who was base commander where I was, with whom I'd once spent an entire day...quite honestly, the limitations and mediocrity were entirely with me, candidly, never them, I assure you....

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 17 at 2019 2:17 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 14:17:48 -0400

Suck it up and drive on. One of you will PCS first.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2019 4:29 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:29:54 -0400

Make them feel like the heroes they mistakenly believe they are so they don't ruin your career.
Zero career points for pointing out what is obvious to everyone but them.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jul 17 at 2019 5:23 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 17:23:11 -0400

Unfortunately you will run into this throughout your career. My way of dealing with this was always show respect and avoid interacting with this type of leader as much as possible. Granted avoidance is not always possible but treat each interaction as a learning experience for yourself and push your lack of confidence of the superior to a far back burner. The biggest mistake you can make is to let your lack of respect show, thare is almost no way to recover from that when you are dealing with a mediocre superior. As others have said, one of you will move on, so suck it up and take the high road.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Jul 17 at 2019 10:15 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 22:15:38 -0400

I raise my level of performance where possible so that mediocre leadership is not evident

Response by SSG Jess Peters made Aug 22 at 2020 1:07 AM

SSG Jess Peters — Sat, 22 Aug 2020 01:07:17 -0400

Take charge

Response by PO3 Josh Higgins made Jan 25 at 2024 11:09 PM

PO3 Josh Higgins — Thu, 25 Jan 2024 23:09:09 -0500

When I was in, I had just been academically dropped from the Nuke program, and force converted from Electronics Technician to Data Systems Technician, and sent to a 'C' School for the AN/UYQ-21 Combat Display Systems. After graduating from the 'C' School, I was giving orders to the USS Carl Vinson. When I first got there, command was happy with me and talking me up and at first talking about how they were going to give me great evals for the upcoming test etc etc. Then as the time approached, they decided all of a sudden, they had too many E-5 already and didn't want another E-5 in the department (I was an E-4). So, of course I was a tad pissed, after they just spent the last 3 months blowing smoke up my ass. Well then, they had the "Command Retention Team" going around department to department trying to get NCOs and above to reenlist etc.
They CRT team really wasn't happy when I told the Senior Chief "you must be out of your fucking gord if you think I am going to re-enlist, after y'all pretty much lied to me". But then he had to admit, he would be a bit salty too.