How do you deal with NCOs that severely compromise the corps Values?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 00:41:22 -0500

An NCO that everyone is afraid to tell on. Screams at his soldiers and fellow NCOs. Belittles people. Keeps his Soldiers late at work for no reason. The list can go on. Everyone has had an experience like this, where you either grow with a peer and see them become toxic, or get to a unit where the toxicity already exists. If you're trying to remain professional with said unprofessional, what would you do?

Response by SSG Malcolm "Chris" Canada made Dec 10 at 2015 1:01 AM

SSG Malcolm "Chris" Canada — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 01:01:47 -0500

Don't be afraid of that guy, pull him to the side and say something. You are a leader for a reason and your judgement has been proven. Chances are leadership already knows he's a chode and they're probably hoping his peers square him away.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 1:17 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 01:17:43 -0500

Pull him to the side SSG. Whether he is the same rank or a subordinate. Be professional and get your point across. It has worked for me.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 1:23 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 01:23:14 -0500

Yeah SSG, I gotta agree with these two fellas. Pull the guy over to the side and have a man to man conversation with him. Regardless if you know him personally or not. We, leaders, harp constantly to "police your own" when dealing with joe and handing out punishments. Yet, we are most of the time the absolute worse at following this practice. Chances are you won't get through to him on the first shot, but consistency is key. Figure out what's going on with the guy and target the issues. Eventually he'll come around or the command will notice it and move him elsewhere. Also your subordinates, like children do, see and hear everything. They'll notice you trying to square the guy away and respect you that much more for trying to adjust a peer.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 3:50 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 03:50:42 -0500

I pictured an NCO that outranks you when I read the subject header. That's tough to deal with. Same rank or lesser, pull him aside and lay it out to them. If they can't take criticism, then find more like minded individuals and have an intervention.

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made Dec 10 at 2015 6:19 AM

SSG Thomas Gallegos — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 06:19:57 -0500

First and foremost always go above and beyond what this individual is doing. Your post tells me it's not hard to do.
Do not bad mouth him/her because that does nothing for you. If the command is allowing it there is not much you can do other than deal with it
I see you tagged EO so that may be a path. Create a log of any personal interaction with this NCO.

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Dec 10 at 2015 6:41 AM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 06:41:09 -0500

embarrass him publically and anonymously....

Response by SGT Matthew Madrid made Dec 10 at 2015 7:47 AM

SGT Matthew Madrid — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 07:47:43 -0500

I've experienced this a few times. Try talking to him and ask him how his life is going. Maybe he's having trouble at home. Maybe he has PTSD issues he hasn't dealt with.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Dec 10 at 2015 10:49 AM

SFC Stephen King — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:49:30 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member Clearly, you have Identified the problem. Now, when you speak to this NCO describe it to them in a non-threatening way accurately and objectively. Express your concern. Ask them for their perspective and if they understand the behavior their displaying. Show them that if they they can change this behavior it will benefit them as well as their Soldiers.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 11:21 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 11:21:42 -0500

Just challenge him like a recruits in boot camp :P That worked very well for me ... for now.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 10 at 2015 12:53 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 12:53:26 -0500

What is his rank?

Response by SSG Paul Forel made Dec 10 at 2015 1:06 PM

SSG Paul Forel — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 13:06:26 -0500

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Dec 10 at 2015 2:33 PM

SSG Audwin Scott — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:33:36 -0500

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth lol, just kidding. Seriously though I personally would take the NCO to the side and see if I can talk to them and see what's going on in their lives to see why they are being a blatant asshole. Of course this depends on their rank and how you make this approach. I have had run ins with senior NCO's when I was a buck SGT and I held my own on a one on one basis if you know what I mean.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Dec 10 at 2015 2:49 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:49:36 -0500

Where is this Sergeants PLT SGT? Where is his 1SG? Have any of the Soldiers made a complaint on this "Sergeant"? I use the title "Sergeant" being a NCO wouldn't do dumb stuff like this for no reason. If the rest of the section or unit is "afraid" to deal with this person, then that's a leadership failure on their parts. No reason for you to be part of that mess. If you know it's happening and fail to act on it, what does that say for you as a NCO? I'm not calling you out, just speaking to the situation. "Accomplishment of the mission and the welfare of my Soldiers". They might not be yours personally, but you are above them in rank, so they are YOUR troops too.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2015 3:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 15:18:33 -0500

Straight up face to face man, gets the job done and make sure you have someone their to co sign and witness what your backing up.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2015 12:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 00:25:14 -0500

Man what type of Soldiers do you guys have in your unit? Today's Soldiers usually are quick to use the COC and NCO support channel. And my favorite IG. Lol.
Where is the 1SG is he tracking what's going on?

Response by SSG Clarence Blackburn made Dec 11 at 2015 2:05 AM

SSG Clarence Blackburn — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 02:05:20 -0500

I agree with the other NCOS, pull him aside and have a talk with him. Remind him of the NCO Creed, if that don't work start taking it up the chain.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2015 5:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 05:16:12 -0500

Tactfully get said individual of questionable ancestry into a room and explain to him in no uncertain terms that his unprofessional actions negates anything he says about being a professional.

Also, remember that the new paperless Army loves paperwork. Write him an Informative Counseling about how his actions fail to hold to the standards described in the NCO Creed, how his behavior reflects on the rest of the NCO Corps., and that if he continues on his current path he could lose his stripes for conduct. Dig into the Leadership FM (22-6).

Who knows, perhaps losing his stripes will make him a better NCO. It worked with me. When I got promoted back to E5, I wasn't simply a E5 or a Sergeant again, I became an NCO and now I try to live the NCO Creed. I may not be able to recite it word for word, but I try to LIVE it.

Response by PO3 Brad Phlipot made Dec 11 at 2015 8:02 AM

PO3 Brad Phlipot — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:02:02 -0500

That is a tough one SSG I'm going with this person is your equal or senior or you would have probably handled this yourself. You have several options in this. Pull the person aside and advise or express what is being said within your group. Take it up a notch by going above this person, I would note that if you select this option I would get witnesses to write their experiences formally, collect them and then advise your superior of your efforts to help this NCO or their refusal to change. JMO I have been out for along time and things have changed allot.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Dec 11 at 2015 9:09 AM

SSG Byron Hewett — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 09:09:18 -0500

Try and speak with this NCO and if that doesn't work your unit should have an open door policy in place, just remember there is a chain of command you should still follow but if you think it will go nowhere then go to the 1stSGT and Commander.

Response by SPC Raul Santiago made Dec 11 at 2015 2:01 PM

SPC Raul Santiago — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 14:01:06 -0500

I had a E7 like that never bother me until I was his Target. I for one know how to follow I also know how to lead. I did everything ask of me. The day came where he did something completely illegal and in formation and I blew up. I ask to speak to him aside and freely. I let him know that what he did was un call for and illegal Keeping my composer. He didn't like it at all I ask to use the open door policy after he was done with me. Went to Toc and the Captain about a week after they conducted a investigation he was strip and had to formally apologize in formation for his action. When I said strip I don't mean his rank but of his being able to lead the troops. I did not take it personnel until he made it that way. Every one has a different way of leading that comes with how you are taught but at the same time some have underline issues that need to be address.

Response by SSG John Caples made Dec 11 at 2015 3:59 PM

SSG John Caples — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 15:59:24 -0500

That Nco is not a Professional and he use's his bullying techniques to get his soldiers to not see, he does not know his job, and how to do it. Piss poor management. The Nco needs a serious talk to

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Dec 11 at 2015 4:33 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:33:37 -0500

I will blame the Officers in charge for not being vigilant and for failing to not have a good open chain of command that counters the effects of poor NCO's.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Dec 11 at 2015 4:41 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 16:41:20 -0500

Eventually we all answer to someone BUT first, as a leader, I think the first step is to go to this leader and find out why they are acting the way they are? Sometimes, when we are brought into all the information, our opinions are changed, sometime they are confirmed and sometimes we are able that the truth is somewhere in between?
If there is something needs correction, point out what you consider the error and offer a possible correction? Often, we assume someone knows something...especially those of higher rank...when they are really not aware of their errors? "We have always done it this way?" "That is how it was done to me?" ETC.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Dec 11 at 2015 5:08 PM

SFC Stephen King — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 17:08:53 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member use your judgment be assertive in your communication approach the SSG and be firm in your convictions. If a one on one conversation does not resolve the problem. Inform your supervisor.

Response by SSgt Ed Lewandowski made Dec 11 at 2015 5:28 PM

SSgt Ed Lewandowski — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 17:28:54 -0500

take it higher up

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Dec 11 at 2015 6:15 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 18:15:43 -0500

Luckily I never had such a situation. I never had a company commander or a 1st SGT that would have allowed it. Probably I was lucky.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2015 10:39 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 22:39:36 -0500

Suck it up, and press on. Life is not fair, but you can handle how you react and deal with it. Do your best. If an NCO treats subordinates in that way, it does not go unnoticed to his superiors.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2015 3:50 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 03:50:13 -0500

I'm TPU, but I perform Military Funerals during the week. All 70 funerals I've completed so far this year have been two-man details. We go to cemeteries, churches, funeral homes, etc. As soldiers we are expected to be professional and should be able to supervise ourselves. Most of the soldiers I work with are competent, but I've worked with several ate up senior NCOs and officers. Generally, it's uniform violations, often items on the ASU just not positioned correctly. However, I've seen soldiers come to funerals in their ASUs wearing do-rags, knitted beanies, earbuds hanging out of their shirts. I've had a LTC (O-5) trying to add in his own material to the funeral which is a violation FM 3-21.5. I had an E-7 scrap mud off his shoes onto someone random person's tombstone right in front of the funeral procession. I know 'how' to professionally and politely tell someone that they're ate up, but as a new NCO, admittedly I'm still intimidated to tell an O-5 they're wrong. This week I printed out relevant AR and FM (AR 670-1, AR 600-25, and FM 3-21.5) to study and keep in my leadership binder that I bring to funerals. Instead of telling them, "I 'think' that's against Army AR," I can confidently tell them, " That 'IS' against Army AR," the next time I see someone jacked up.

Response by SPC Stacey Lowell made Dec 12 at 2015 3:52 PM

SPC Stacey Lowell — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:52:14 -0500

I had an NCO just like that. He was a SSG just off of recruiter status and I had just returned from Panama - Operation Just Cause - and before I had the computer set up and running he comes bitching to me about a memorandum that was due like three days ago. And for some reason he struck me (I was an E-4) and I cleaned his clock and wound up on the psych unit at Baynes-Jones Army Community Hospital at Fort Polk. Suffice to say, the NCO was done for and I was done for as well diagnosed with PTSD and a couple other things which sent me to a medical board and a medical discharge. I stayed in Louisiana for about 5 years and I wound up going to church one Sunday and ran into said former SSG. The meeting was not pleasant, and so I sold off my VEAP so I could pack and leave the state for good. I hadn't had a bad day since.

Response by CMSgt Mike Esser made Dec 12 at 2015 4:26 PM

CMSgt Mike Esser — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:26:06 -0500

Senior leadership, if doing their job need to catch and address this. However, I learned as much from toxic leaders as I did good leaders. Pay attention to what troops respond to

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2015 10:25 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 22:25:09 -0500

You make them E-3s

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Dec 15 at 2015 7:52 AM

SSG Brian MacBain — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 07:52:19 -0500

I agree that pull him aside and be professional. However, I would have another soldier equal or higher in rank with me to cover my six. If that does not work, bring the issue up the chain of command. They might know already, but waiting for the soldiers to say something.

Response by SFC Bryson Amaral made Dec 15 at 2015 10:20 AM

SFC Bryson Amaral — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:20:36 -0500

Counsel him, remind him of the NCO creed which he has forgotten. Counsel him again. Make sure it's written on paper. Or some good ole wall to wall counseling to set him straight

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2015 7:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 19:08:24 -0500

Hold him to the standard. It's easier said than done, but I agree with a majority of the comments below: pull him aside and professionally talk to him. If he's that volatile, have someone of higher rank there with you to mediate.

Response by SSG Nick Moler made Dec 24 at 2015 8:11 PM

SSG Nick Moler — Thu, 24 Dec 2015 20:11:37 -0500

IG and don't be afraid to use your chain of command it goes all the way to the top mot just your company command !

Response by SSG Antonio Borden made Mar 1 at 2016 8:48 AM

SSG Antonio Borden — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 08:48:20 -0500

It is your duty to report this NC to his COC. Nothing boils my blood more than to see a soldier being abused and belittled. Do everything you can to get that NC counseled and/or reprimanded. When things become toxic or you arrive to a unit where everything is toxic, you may want to find another duty station/assignment. If the COC doesn't act on correcting that NCO, then you know that you have your marching orders. Always do the right thing and what's best for the Army. I trust that you will brother. God Speed.