How do you define Toxic?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 07:02:15 -0400

How do you define Toxic? When do you know as a leader, that your way of business is out of touch with the modern Army and your subordinates view you as a "Toxic Leader"? As a Leader you think that you are enforcing standards when in reality you are actually perfection seeking and making your subordinates miserable, because YOU can never be satisfied. Can your subordinate ever meet your standard if you, the leader keep raising it?
This is not to counter the idea of goal setting where in which a leader and their subordinate set new goals once they, the subordinate, have accomplished a previous marker or achievement. The subordinate won Soldier of the Month and you start training them for the upcoming Soldier of the Quarter it the over arching goal that you both set to win Soldier of the year. But to purposefully set a maker so high, often times without them even knowing, they can never achieve it and look down on them because they did not.
There are things my old leaders did that today would easily be considered toxic or demeaning. This is no longer their Army and as a leader we can either adjust or move on and out of the way. It's not a softer Army just different and things are done differently. I remember a lot about the old ways and like the dinosaurs their time has come and gone.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 7:13 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 07:13:22 -0400

The dinosaur comment holds some water but, at the same time sharks haven't had to evolve and still sit at the top of the food chain.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 6 at 2015 7:58 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 07:58:03 -0400

What you define in your commentary SFC Private RallyPoint Member IMHO is good leadership. A good leader sets the bar high to encourage subordinates to excel. I agree that demeaning someone or setting unrealistic goals is definitely toxic. Expecting a soldier to win soldier of the year or get 300 on an APFT is not realistic. In those cases you're saying the max is the minimum standard and you will settle for nothing less.

I was taught, ask for 100% and be happy with 90%, meaning set the bar high but recognize when subordinates are making the effort to reach it. Those who do hit or exceed the bar can then be rewarded for excelling. You also don't want to set the bar too low and end up with under achieving soldiers. If you aren't challenging your soldiers enough that leads to complacency which can be just as toxic.

Response by SSG Martin Fox made Jun 6 at 2015 8:43 AM

SSG Martin Fox — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 08:43:51 -0400

The problem is with the word "Toxic" itself. There is goog and bad leadership, but Toxic? I am not sure about that. It's such a strong word. I believe that there are far to many leaders out there that are worried about themselves and ensuring that they look good and could give a crap less about the soldiers under them. I hear far to often, "I am looking out for the soldiers", when in reality that is just a Political talking point that leadership (E-5 all the way up to Generals) use to amke themselves sound good, when in reality all they care about is just that, making sure that they look good and that is reflected on their OER's and NCOER's. There are thsoe that only care about numbers, those are bad leaders. There are those that don't or won't take the time to sit down with those below them and teach them, instead they say "go figure it out yourself" or "here's the regulation, go read it", thsoe are bad leaders. There are thiose that tell you what to do and what needs to get done but will not get out and help, that is bad leadership. There are those that "hunt schools" but won't recommend soldiers for schools", that is bad leadeship. There are those that want awards but won't write one for soldiers, those are bad leaders. There are those that won't take a hit for thier soldiers but instead blame soldiers for evverything. There are those that afraid of taking a hit. There are those that are far to political.
I for one never cared about padding my NCOER. I do my job and take care of soldiers to the best of my ability. I am not perfect, far from it. Maybe that is why I am still the rank that I am. But I am ok with that. I have a clear Conscious. How many others can "honestly" say that?

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 6 at 2015 9:17 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 09:17:33 -0400

We used to joke about this, and call this leadership thru terrorism. It is a the opposite of leadership, in fact. We knew about it along before, we started enforcing it.

https://commandperformanceleadership.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/toxic-leadership/

I would recommend you research George Reed, and Craig Bullis, both retired officers who have written and spoken widely on toxic leadership. Luckily, after many many years, the Army leadership is starting to enforce this.

Toxic Leadership

Last week, I posted Authoritarian Leadership vs. Democratic Leadership~ The Officer Corps Explained, discussing the contrasts betweenbeing anautocratic leader and a participative leader. At the...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 11:13 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 11:13:10 -0400

Unrealistic expectations are a sign, as well as an utter lack of flexibility for troops who may be having a difficult time with a subject or concept. Using punishment and threats of punishment as a sole "motivator" and yelling and troops who are performing their duties already, but the "leader" thinks he needs to "turn things up a notch" for no reason.
Also, refusing to pitch in and help, and literally standing there watching soldiers struggle to accomplish something while hurling abuse at them: "You better have that camo net up in 15 minutes or there'll be Article-15s for everyone!"

Vigorously enforcing rules on subordinates while brushing off the same infractions when applied to themselves or their peers. Leaving early (or finding excuses to be away) when there's work to be done by all.

All of these things I have seen displayed at one time or another by so-called "leaders" who I would not trust to lead me out of a box canyon.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 6 at 2015 12:51 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 12:51:25 -0400

To me, a toxic leader does not treat the troops with dignity and respect, and sucks all the enjoyment from work.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 6 at 2015 2:01 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 14:01:07 -0400

From the USMC side, we have "Mission Accomplishment, Troop Welfare."

A leader who runs counter to those concepts would be considered "toxic."

You have to accomplish the mission. That is the first priority, but you can't do it at the expense of your Marines. You also have to take care of your Marines, but not at the expense of the mission.

A leader who neither adheres to this, or fosters an environment where these are not the primary concerns. That's "introducing a turd to the punchbowl" or basically making a "toxic environment." You wouldn't drink out of that water.

I realize this is probably an overly simplistic view, but sometimes simplistic works.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 11:57 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 23:57:06 -0400

A toxic leader is one who is immoral, unethical, a criminal, and a person who has never learned the lesson from their poor judgement call. One who is a danger to themselves and others. One who is not considerate and unprofessional.

I think I wrapped it up in this statement.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2015 1:35 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:35:14 -0400

I don't believe there is anything wrong with setting extremely high goals for your soldiers as long as the proper mentorship and counseling is there. I feel that things begin to get 'toxic' when the leader doesn't take the proper steps to train the soldier and takes the failures out on the soldier instead of changing his way of guiding and influencing the soldier to his goal.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2020 9:29 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 30 Nov 2020 09:29:23 -0500

You'll know it if you see it. Learn how not to lead from it.