How do you feel about whistle-blowers?

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 04:09:40 -0400

-Edited-

Thank you all for your responses. I was apparently given some misinformation about the Manning and Snowden cases. The two of them were just an afterthought from my original point.
The reason for my question was to get a bead on what the military community thought about the general idea of whistle-blowing. Obviously each case must be treated differently based on the information released and the implications of who sees that information.

I was originally researching the recent WikiLeaks development. The original angle I was looking at the problem from was not one of endangering national security, but from the position of integrity violations, and violations of the law by, lets just say for the purposes of this post, "hypothetical senior officials."

Personal violations or a collective group's professional violations.

I know we are extremely limited in what we can say and do as members of the military, and that we all took oaths to obey the officers and officials appointed over us. My primary concern is the issue of deteriorating integrity.

Slightly off topic:
My personal grid square is very small compared to many of the individuals here so I have no doubt my perspective is limited, but what do we do (if anything) in the event that the officials appointed over us violate the constitution that we have also sworn to protect?

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 4:13 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 04:13:26 -0400

Obviously something like this needs to be treated on a case by case basis and whether or not it could put lives in danger, especially service members.

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 26 at 2016 4:25 AM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 04:25:23 -0400

There is honor in whistle blowing and remaining to face the storm of consequences. There is not honor in whistle blowing and high-tailing out the back door.

Response by Capt Michael Greene made Oct 26 at 2016 4:38 AM

Capt Michael Greene — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 04:38:56 -0400

Ninety-nine percent of the time, government is a good thing. A tiny percent of the time, there is corruption that needs reporting and correction. Whistleblowers and the mediA do us a good service then. On the other hand, sometimes the CIA DoD or president sees an existential danger, but they have no legal way to handle it. Sometimes, you have to do a bad thing to keep the country safe. These incidents need to remain cliassified and unknown for several decades, in order to safeguard our country. In these cases, the media needs to recognize that they need to keep the secret unpublished.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 5:05 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 05:05:11 -0400

It now becomes obvious that clearer picture comes into focus. With nothing to hide, we find out who has been pulling the strings all along. Amazing dichotomy is my take. hmmm.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 5:07 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 05:07:02 -0400

Manning was not a whistleblower. He released the documents as a means to "get back" at people and to make people pay attention to him. He had no intentions of helping to expose an issue, his actions were purely to hurt.

Response by SSgt Joseph Marquis made Oct 26 at 2016 6:37 AM

SSgt Joseph Marquis — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 06:37:29 -0400

Tread lightly LCpl.... Big brother may be watching? Bad mouth the Govt when you are not representing yourself by rank and service branch.... especially with a pic of you in uniform... this is how they censor you. And calling out the Presidents administration while in uniform will get you burned! I recommend you do this type of opinion based speech away from social media.
Besides that though, yes I think whistle blowers are a valuable part of our checks and balances system. And even though others would disagree, even if you are ratting out wrong doing out of spite it’s still protected.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 26 at 2016 7:37 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 07:37:52 -0400

If you're going to take a hard stand and say something is wrong, you stand. You don't run away. You don't hide in the shadows. You live with the consequences of your actions. The system will vindicate you if you're right. Or the system is truly broke.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Oct 26 at 2016 7:53 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 07:53:11 -0400

What matters is, the damage done to national security, intent and results (e.g., lives lost). Politics and anything illegal are fair game. Being somewhat of a contrarian, I can see why beating feet may seem like a good at the time, I can't think of a single instance that turned out well for a leaker or whistle blower.

Response by SGT David T. made Oct 26 at 2016 8:18 AM

SGT David T. — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 08:18:58 -0400

I judge on a case by case basis. In some cases it's a good thing in other cases not.

Response by SPC James Harsh made Oct 26 at 2016 10:13 AM

SPC James Harsh — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 10:13:17 -0400

After serving I have more of a tolerance because if someone doesn't speak up about something that is not right and something goes wrong down the road, there is a problem. Now if someone told the enemy the plans that is unacceptable.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Oct 26 at 2016 10:52 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 10:52:18 -0400

Niether of those two individuals are in trouble for whistle blowing, they are in trouble for turning over the documents to a third party hostile to the United States which was a violation of their Oath. Either one of them could have approached the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee via it's Military or Civilian liason arm and they would have been fine. So the problem wasn't with whistle blowing it was with breaking the Security Clearance and approaching a power outside the U.S. with the information.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 26 at 2016 11:00 AM

SFC George Smith — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 11:00:55 -0400

Sometimes its a necessary Evil...

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Oct 26 at 2016 11:41 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 11:41:00 -0400

There's a legal and honorable way to blow the whistle and an illegal way. Although it gets sticky when it involves classified material, you can certainly blow the whistle on the generic result, not the method, means, etc. Choose wisely.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Oct 26 at 2016 12:08 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 12:08:30 -0400

You are correct that knowing does change your outlook. I don't have an issue with whistleblowers, it's the manner in which the whistle is blown I have an issue with. Using Manning and Snowden as an example... I don't have an issue with them exposing corruption or anything shady. My issue is because it wasn't just exposed to the American citizenry, it was exposed on a global scale.

This is stuff that could have been used against us. This is stuff that could have caused irreparable harm to us. This is the reason they are labeled as traitors, not for releasing classified information, but for releasing it on a global platform.

What if it contained the names and addresses of the Presidential Security detail? Maybe the itineraries of the nation's VIPs? What if it came out that we had undercover agents planted in positions of influence in other governments?

What if there was something in those released documents that was the tipping point to provoke someone to push the big red button and let the nukes fly???

I can be supportive of whistleblowers and see the dangers of blowing the whistle as well. Discretion is key.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 1:04 PM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:04:49 -0400

Whistle-blowers are a good thing - when done appropriately. Here's an example. The whole taking back the National Guard bonuses. If you knew something about that was illegal or that the Guard was planning on doing this to get "the money they needed" - then an IG or letter to an external entity such as congress, may be a very smart move. Whistle-Blowers are not necessarily criminals. They are people on the inside who keep their organization honest. Snowden was an idiot and instead of getting an investigation started, just threw everything on wikileaks... There is a right way and a wrong way.

Response by Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin made Oct 26 at 2016 1:11 PM

Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:11:55 -0400

There are already plenty of avenues to report criminal, unethical, and immoral practices by the US Government from those within the system. But most people who have spent enough time in the government also come to the realization that they don't necessarily know all of what s going on with any given issue. This is why we have IGs, to investigate the whole story when issues are reported. Understanding these avenues is required training, especially for those who have access to our most sensitive secrets and capabilities.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 26 at 2016 1:32 PM

SN Greg Wright — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 13:32:48 -0400

Manning is no whistleblower. He's a traitor, full stop. He did what he did out of spite, not any desire to help anyone, and people died for it. Snowden lost whistleblower status when he tucked tail and ran.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 2:03 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:03:48 -0400

Okay Manning and Snowden are traitors and I'm sure thousands of people have died from the revelation of the information because as you know in the military everything has to have a grid coordinate so if you talk to this holy man or that Shepherd or that mayor it all has a grid coordinate. I'm sure many of the people who have fled to Western Europe fled because of those idiots. The whistle-blowing topic is a good one I just wanted to put these two idiots in the perspective first

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Oct 26 at 2016 2:15 PM

MGySgt James Forward — Wed, 26 Oct 2016 14:15:36 -0400

And off to jail if you do that. We are still bound by regulations, unlike Manning and Snowden and Hillary. Semper Fi.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Mar 24 at 2017 12:30 AM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 00:30:13 -0400

I blew the whistle on a survey once. It cost me my job. I never filled out another survey.
M. Morris RVT