How do you handle civilian employers who have no idea how the "citizen soldier" concept is supposed to work?

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 07:11:19 -0400

As a ARNG SM, I don't think civilians employers or the majority of the civilian population understand our role to the nation and how unique our situation is as "citizen soldiers". Many of my civilian friends/employer didn't know the Army had three different components. Do any of you encounter this?

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made May 15 at 2015 7:15 AM

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad — Fri, 15 May 2015 07:15:34 -0400

I have actually had to take fellow (non-veteran) supervisors aside and explain to them the role of the reserves and national guard and WHY it is important to support their employees that are members of these.

Response by LTC John Shaw made May 15 at 2015 8:15 AM

LTC John Shaw — Fri, 15 May 2015 08:15:43 -0400

You must have a sit down to explain the process. I provide a letter each year of planned BA and AT dates.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 8:32 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 08:32:47 -0400

The ESGR is an excellent resource. They have dedicated ombudsmen who can help with employer issues. I've had to get them involved on more than one occasion for some of my troops. Unfortunately there are a number of employers out there who will violate USERRA law and then bully the employee over it.

Response by LTC Gavin Heater made May 15 at 2015 8:45 AM

LTC Gavin Heater — Fri, 15 May 2015 08:45:04 -0400

Every state and territory including DC has an ESGR Committee. Services range from Ombudsment to Military Outreach to Employer Outreach to Employment Initiative to name a few. Guardsmen and Reservists can also ask for employer training and/or employer recognition, including breakfast with the boss. USERRA clearly outlined service me member and employer responsibilities. Go to http://www.esgr.mil or call [login to see] or http://youtu.be/F2DmYIFIK2U. Contact me if you need support. I am a volunteer Military Outreach Coordinator.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made May 15 at 2015 8:49 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Fri, 15 May 2015 08:49:52 -0400

For me, as self employed, it's my customers I have to deal with. Living CONUS, its been tough, but most of my customers have stuck by me while being deployed. I tried to make sure there was someone available to shoe their horses when I was gone, if they chose to use them. When I returned, all I had to do was tell many of them I was back and soon I was back in the saddle. After saying this, after I returned in 2004 from being gone for 14 months, it took me two years to get my bushiness back up to what it was.

My problem is I have to watch and not treat my customers like soldiers. I have to put on my kid gloves and watch my attitude. I've lost more customers with my harsh attitude, so we have to tone down a bit maybe?

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 15 at 2015 8:51 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Fri, 15 May 2015 08:51:33 -0400

It's not your fault your employers are ignorant and uneducated but you can change that by sitting down (on the clock) and explaining the difference between active and "part time" to include dates for drill weekends and AT. I have heard of some nightmare stories.

Response by LTC Damon LaCour made May 15 at 2015 9:15 AM

LTC Damon LaCour — Fri, 15 May 2015 09:15:22 -0400

My civilian employer, Burns & McDonnell, is very tuned into me & the other "citizen Soldiers" at the company. They've always gone above & beyond in their support of my military career. Burns & McDonnell also hosts a Veterans Day breakfast every year. I will admit that they are probably not the norm, but always going above & beyond is how they "Create Amazing" for their clients & employee-owners, alike!

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made May 15 at 2015 9:53 AM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Fri, 15 May 2015 09:53:45 -0400

So, I think there are at least two different issues that may be being conflated here.

Issue 1: Employers relationship with a reservist Employee. This is pretty cut and dried. It has legal requirements (on both sides). If it is an issue with a specific employer, the escalation path would be:
A. Explain it to them.
B. Show it to them in writing.
C. Recruit assistance from CMD/JAG/ESGR/HR/etc.
D. Litigate (or quit)

Issue 2: People don't understand/appreciate what I do as a reservist. Actually, this isn't an issue. Just a statement (and likely an annoyance). They don't NEED to, as long as they are living up to their obligations under Issue 1. IF you feel so inclined, you can always attempt to educate them. However, avoid being "that annoying person who is always going on about....."

Response by SGT Curtis Earl made May 15 at 2015 9:56 AM

SGT Curtis Earl — Fri, 15 May 2015 09:56:03 -0400

Beyond the other issues stated below, I've had issues with retired soldiers! My last boss was a retired COL (West Point Graduate), and he seemed to take it very personal when any of us needed to use our military days. My old job generously offered 15 paid military leave days on top of our sick leave, personal business, and vacation days. HR would even extend your paid military days if you supplied a copy of written orders.

Fort Jackson fell within my district along with Shaw AF nearby and prolly a dozen reserve and guard shacks within driving distance. I'd say that nearly 75% of our staff was either former military, retired military, active drilling Reservist/Guardsman or married to one of us. My boss would loudly complain about how he didn't like all the missed days and often treated us different. We often got grouped together to do the shit duties. It was little things like that. You'd hear rumors from other people that he cussed you or the 'air national guard' personally for 'taking advantage' of the system to get double pay. He actually told me when he hired me that he'd had bad experiences with Army techs. I always assume that if he'd read my resume prior to the hiring manager extending the offer, I'd not have gotten the job.

I'm venturing a guess that no matter how proud he was of his military career, he secretly hated how the GWOT was messing with his staffing decisions. Businesses want to support the troops, they just don't want to make any sacrifices.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made May 15 at 2015 9:59 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Fri, 15 May 2015 09:59:52 -0400

Yes, on both sides. Some knew that the three existed but thought that they where all the same. I have some that didn't know that there was three services inside the one. My employers have all been in the dark. I have lost a couple of jobs to the National Guard. Yeah I know it is illegal and so do they. But when your in the interview and everything is going awesome, and then come to military service. Oh I see you are in the Guard, when do you get out, and are you reenlisting. you tell them the date and then that you are re enlisting and you see the demeanor change right then and there. Then HR calls and "we are sorry to inform you that the hiring manager has decided to go a different route." what happened. "Oh your credit is bad, or they decided you what to much compensation, or blah blah blah!"
Good way to get the employer involved is through ESGR. Put your immediate Super in for an award. they come out and do a small ceremony, and talk with them. let them know how they are appreciated and if they have questions they get them answered there. Even if you are having problem the award might somethings over and the rep can talk to them about the issues that you are having. My rep called me and we went over somethings, when they came out to do the award, they worked the issues into the conversation. They weren't even brought up it was a discussion point. Kinda like did you know kinda stuff. It also makes thet super feel good that he got the award!

Response by COL Jon Thompson made May 15 at 2015 11:50 AM

COL Jon Thompson — Fri, 15 May 2015 11:50:55 -0400

I left active duty in 1996 and joined a reserve unit as a battalion S3 in 1998. I worked job in the transportation industry that ran 24/7/365 and did not have a set schedule. I had to go into my boss and explain to her what I was doing and that I needed to have one weekend off each month. I was lucky that I always had strong support from my employers. Some things you can do are: (1) Provide your drill schedule well in advance, preferably the entire year's worth. Do the same thing with your AT. Let them know as early as possible. (2) Also make sure they know what you do as a Soldier and how important your role is. (3) If you have the opportunity to invite them to any special events, do that so they have a better connection with the Army. (4) Set a good example in your civilian job because you are representing both the Army and your employer.

Response by 1LT Richard C. made May 15 at 2015 12:16 PM

1LT Richard C. — Fri, 15 May 2015 12:16:16 -0400

As a Military Outreach Coordinator with ESGR, I have to applaud and second these comments.

Bottom line up front - start the conversation.

I can tell you from personal experience that I found a great start point was to talk about what I did over the drill weekend with my coworkers. NOTE: I did not say gripe and complain... No matter how bad the drill or annual training went, I would come back to the office with the fun stories. 'There we were in the pouring rain, eating soggy fried chicken and tray pack cherry desert..when one of the troops asks if we have a napkin'. All the while with a smile on my face and laugh in my tone.

Every military holiday, I would either wear my dress uniform (when appropriate), bring my medals or coins and I would often have military photo's pinned up in my cube. These are all conversation starters that helped them know what I was doing on my time away from the office. On a few occasions the manager would great me in the hall with positive comments of what they heard coworkers say about me and my time in the military. I would also very often come across coworkers who where also veterans, but never spoke up before.

The important part is to start the conversation. The more positive you bring to it the more you will receive.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made May 15 at 2015 1:19 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 15 May 2015 13:19:56 -0400

Just give them the facts, as it pertains to your MOS and training requirements and deployments requirements and the law that protects you. In my was refused teaching positions because of deployments or because I was not a good fit for the school, I did not mind because I was deploying a lot and volunteered for other deployments. So for the good of my students I switched to substitute teaching. It is a give and take like a regular relationship a marriage, one in which what can you do for my company.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 1:28 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 13:28:35 -0400

I am an 882A Mobility Warrant. I have been working at UPS for 11 years, and have 12 years in service as a logistitian.
My bosses have no clue that I have been doing their jobs, and their boss' jobs for YEARS. Not only that, but with 3 deployments, college education, and life experience, they still see me as a kid. (Mostly because even at 30, if I have a high and tight I look like I'm 17)
There is no explaining it to them. Their egos get hurt when you display your qualifications, an you are more qualified than they are. They also are incredulous when you tell them your qualifications, because "what the Army does is not what we do, so your experience is not exactly of value". Yes, their words, not mine.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 2:15 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 14:15:32 -0400

My biggest thing was sitting down with my employer and giving it to him straight. I recently got ADOS orders and left my civilian employer. I will be returning to this employer after completion of these orders. I found it best to give it to him straight. I explained the role of the guard and my subsequent role in the guard. I laid out my drill weekends and everything when I was initially employed. He had some problems with me and i have told him on multiple occasions that my guard service will come first and when he still had problems I reminded him that he was legally obligated to maintain my position.

The hardest thing was leaving my clients. I had to leave within a week and was unable to explain it to my clients.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 2:57 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 14:57:19 -0400

I give my my employer my drill dates, they usually ignore it or forget

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 15 at 2015 3:21 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Fri, 15 May 2015 15:21:45 -0400

As much as I'd like to say, "With a very big stick", point them towards ESGR. I know in RI there are a lot of events that employers can attend to stay in tune with what their employees do on the NG side.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2015 1:07 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 May 2015 13:07:18 -0400

About every two days I have to remind my Grandma that I am in the Guard not the Reserves. And then I use to argue with my old employer about why I am not going to drill the same weekend Pvt Snuffy is. They couldn't understand that I was in a different unit than him. And then I had this one boss who started complaining about me leaving for AT, I just walked him over to the giant poster that has USERRA rights spelled out... and explained that my Plt Sgt is a Captain in the local PD and I can be arrested for missing drill. He got real quite after that.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2015 11:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 May 2015 23:28:40 -0400

Invite them to your training events so they can see first hand why you are away from your job. Invite them to your family or organizational day to publicly thank them for supporting you and your unit. For me, it has all been about comminication

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made May 16 at 2015 11:39 PM

MSgt Keith Hebert — Sat, 16 May 2015 23:39:07 -0400

I have to agree with everyone here
Use ESGR and all other resources and I think one thing not mentioned is do not take advantage of the employer

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2015 11:40 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 16 May 2015 23:40:41 -0400

Until they themselves serve, they will not fully understand.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2015 1:21 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 May 2015 13:21:28 -0400

It has been my experience that hostility towards the Guard and Reserve members is largely due to a lack of education on the manager or company's part. I had to have a very pointed conversation with a former manager on a couple of topics. I contacted ESGR first, told them the situation and they gave me some pdf material to give to my manager. I also had them draft a letter to my HR Rep and my Manager that I sent in my name an email. Once HR got involved, it was smooth sailing.

One of the best things you can do is tie what you do in the Reserve Components to is to relate what you do to some core facet of your civilian job. Additionally, explain that you will minimize the impact it has on your current position, as long as you are in a position to do so.

On another note: with companies who say that they "love to hire veterans", I have noticed on a few occasions that they really mean "those who are ETS'd, Retired, or otherwise out." Some bigger companies like the background of the military and prefer that it remains there: quietly tucked away in the background.

Response by SP5 Rod Cross made May 20 at 2015 11:58 AM

SP5 Rod Cross — Wed, 20 May 2015 11:58:36 -0400

It depends largely on the organization. Take Waste Management for example, a lot of our workforce is made up of current and prior service personnel. Service members make a seamless transition to many of our operational opportunities across the enterprise affording us to rank consistently among the most military friendly employers.

We also have a internal Veteran's Network that meets quarterly to discuss issues affecting service members and to disseminate information.

Please visit http://www.wm.com to view career opportunities.

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Response by BG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 1:03 PM

BG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 13:03:23 -0400

Unfortunately, even when you have a semi-supportive boss who knows the rules, you get the "wait, you're going again?" and "you sure take a lot of military duty". I can't tell you how many times I have been asked "so this is your two weeks duty?" and I have to explain that the Army Reserve involves a lot more than two weeks a year especially if you are a leader. The unfortunate thing is that you often cannot prove the prejudice that may be in decision makers minds when they are selecting the next person for promotion. They seem to think that if you are taking days here and there, then you must not be dedicated to your civilian job, when the common fact is that you are putting in extra hours on your civilian job so that you can go perform your military duty without letting the civilian performance suffer.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 1:17 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 May 2015 13:17:48 -0400

I feel a bit dumb for asking this, but trying to get smarter. SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member mentioned that there are three different components to the Army. My thought is Active Duty/Guard/Reserve. Am I correct in this, or is there something I am missing or not aware of?

Response by LTC Brian Croteau made May 20 at 2015 4:03 PM

LTC Brian Croteau — Wed, 20 May 2015 16:03:12 -0400

From the dim recesses of my memory... When I got off active duty in 1983 as a 1LT and went looking for work, I got a lot of 'thanks for your service but what do you really know how to do?'

I finally got smart and talked about the $$$ involved - 4 armored personnel carriers, with machine guns, anti-tank tracking equipment, communications equipment, and so forth, worth over $500,000... Oh, and the first-level maintenance for all of it, including reading & understanding the manuals. Not to mention the training, accountability, and discipline of almost 40 soldiers.

Ultimately what it took was another veteran who was looking for a take-charge young guy, and I got a job.

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made May 20 at 2015 7:49 PM

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Wed, 20 May 2015 19:49:18 -0400

There is more than one side to this discussion. Even for a veteran, former USNR sailor, and military-friendly employer.

The problem is that "the deal" has changed in a number of ways. An employer (even a 24x7 operation) can program around 2 weeks per year and 1 weekend a month - and deployment in the event of "war." Once upon a time, this was very viable. Today, we have a war that goes on forever and seems to have no connection to national interests - employees on their 2nd or 3rd deployment in a 10-year period. Nobody bargained for that - I suspect not even the Guard and Reserve members. I wonder that there will remain many members, or what the reenlistment stats will look like.

Then there is the duty beyond 2 weeks and 1 weekend that seems to suck the time out of those who rise to leadership positions. The Guard, in particular, seems to expect its part-time officers and NCOs to take full-time responsibility for its other part-time members. Off duty guardsman gets locked up for DUI, his PSG or LT has to bail out of work to deal with what is purely a civilian issue.

And then there is the attitude. I am happy to learn how wonderful the Army has become, because some members returning from a deployment or 2 week training come back and spend lots of time telling their co-workers how badly the company sucks, compared to the Army.

This all comes with a cost to the civilian employer, some of whom are not profit-oriented private organizations.

I guess that there are also guardsmen and reservists who forget that the civilian side of that "citizen soldier" is important too. Folks with military training and experience can be invaluable resources to their civilian employers. If they so choose.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made May 21 at 2015 11:48 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Thu, 21 May 2015 11:48:02 -0400

I find the concept depends on (1) employer size and (2) location. For example, I once lived in CT. People there had no clue. I refrained from clocking somebody who once called me a Weekend Warrior. Smaller employers generally don't (or choose not to know) their obligations under Federal law when it comes to Reservists' duty. Larger employers - certainly the big contractors such as Lockheed and Boeing - are VERY aware they have Reservists in their midst. In the DC area, MOST employers make up the difference between the Reservists' pay and what they would make at work - usually up to 30 days. That's a far cry from CT.

Response by 1LT Wayne Travers made May 21 at 2015 12:12 PM

1LT Wayne Travers — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:12:35 -0400

As mentioned by previous members, ESGR is an excellent resource. My suggestion would be to contact your state ESGR committee before a major issue arises, as ESGR Employer Outreach volunteers can hold a "Briefing with the Boss" event where information on the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA) can be shared. It's important to note that USERRA protects both employers and service member employees and establishing good communications is a key element in avoiding misunderstanding and conflict.

On http://www.esgr.mil, there are employer-focused resources where one can direct a supervisor who may have USERRA-related questions.

Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve > Home

With an ESGR committee in each state, territory and the District of Columbia, there is an ESGR representative able to help you forge a stronger bond with your supervisor through a greater understanding of your military service.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 12:21 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:21:19 -0400

This is where you need to have a good understanding yourself and be able to explain it to everyone in simple language. It is part of our "job" to tell the Guard story. I tell the story all the time explaining our dual role (without going into a lot of jargon, acronyms or details) of working for the Governor and being able to be called by the President as well. I wouldn't go into too many details such as Title 10 vs Title 32, etc. Just let them know you have respond to requests from the State as well as the Federal government to help and to protect.

I tell this story to co-workers, superiors and anyone else that shows an interest in what I do as a Guardsman.

Response by SMSgt Paul Ringheiser made May 21 at 2015 12:35 PM

SMSgt Paul Ringheiser — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:35:26 -0400

As an AF Reservist, I was an IMA that was assigned an active duty unit, attached to the PA Air National Guard and had additional duties to CAP-USAF. There weren't too many in the military that understood my situation, let alone civilians. Fortunately, I was an Army Material Command civilian employee and was able to relate more with the active duty than most of the civilians I worked with (even though I was blue in a green world). I spent about 4 months a years in uniform. Most of it was in a paid status, but a lot was un-paid, which a lot of folks didn't understand or relate to either. Perseverance is the answer. Don't dwell on who you are, but how you fit into the total force.

Response by SSG Brian Kresge made May 21 at 2015 12:42 PM

SSG Brian Kresge — Thu, 21 May 2015 12:42:36 -0400

I see a lot of great responses about ESGR and USERRA.

People have to understand, though, that even within that, your options can still be limited. There is little or no recourse against employers, especially those in "at will" states.

This has been an ongoing struggle for me in my Guard units since 2005. We often have MUTA 6s and MUTA 8s, Annual Training that exceeds two weeks. I can deal with mobilization. It's planned, it's understood, and everyone is generally looking when a deployment occurs. But a MUTA 8, particularly when you lose a Thursday and a Friday, is tough.

I've gathered over the years, especially during a stint as a readiness NCO, that neither the USGR nor Guard units are necessarily accustomed to supporting soldiers with professional jobs. My last unit has a lot of state workers, like corrections or law enforcement. My current unit has a high amount of Guard employed technicians, AGR, and ADOS soldiers. They just can't relate, in many cases, to either needs of a soldier who is on oddly scheduled truck driving routes, or one who works in a professional services field. In many cases, I struggled less with the employers and more with the Guard in terms of communicating this. Our drill schedule for the coming year, in fact, demonstrates how out of touch our brigade is with soldiers in civilian careers.

Most employers can middle through a two week AT. I don't know many that can swallow a 21 day IT, particularly smaller shops where that means increased workload for everyone else.

This is all a two-way street that needed addressed, and sadly wasn't, 10 years ago. We make it work, but it's not easy.

Response by COL Roxanne Arndt made May 21 at 2015 1:00 PM

COL Roxanne Arndt — Thu, 21 May 2015 13:00:58 -0400

SGT Hall you are right on! Most people think that as a Reserve soldier you only do 1 weekend and month and 2 weeks out of the year. Depending on what type of unit you are in or your position in the unit you can quickly accumulate more than the requisite 48 points a year! Many of us do admin duties during the month aside from weekend duty and not to mention the training and TDY's you some times have to attend aside from your regular duties. Thanks for posting this!

Response by CAPT Hiram Patterson made May 21 at 2015 1:02 PM

CAPT Hiram Patterson — Thu, 21 May 2015 13:02:01 -0400

I've never had a problem with civilian employers, partly because I worked for state agencies or universities which have specific rules for governing civilians in the military. At my current employer we have many retired military officers in senior positions and former officers/enlisted so we have a very positive support culture.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 1:04 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 13:04:53 -0400

Weekly. I have found that having a sit-down with a cup of coffee, giving said friends/co-workers/boss a 1-2 minute intro to the NG or Reserves and then letting them ask as many questions as they can think of is the best way to overcome that.

A more pressing issue lately seems to be getting the NG or Reserves to understand that they aren't on the same level as the citizen side. That they are 4th place (or more) in the priority list to 1. Spouses, 2. Children, 3. Civilian job. Us "part-timers" seem to be expected to put in a full-time job's worth of time and effort. And then the powers that be don't seem to understand why they're having such a hard time with meeting manning goals.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 2:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 14:15:26 -0400

I've experienced the same thing, but I take it as an opportunity to educate those friends and colleagues on the ways that the reserve components are different than the active duty components. I've also tried to develop a formal education plan for recruiters and hiring managers inside my company so they fully understand the military branches and components and how employees who are serving in the Guard and Reserves need to be supported in the workplace.

Lastly, I agree that ESGR is a great resource if you need someone to step in with your employer, on your behalf. Hopefully, in your current situation, it hasn't come to that.

Response by Lt Col John Laverdure made May 21 at 2015 2:26 PM

Lt Col John Laverdure — Thu, 21 May 2015 14:26:28 -0400

I was blessed I guess for the 16 years I was fortunate to be working for two companies SRA International and Hewlett-Packard that both appreciated and supported my time in the Air Force Reserves.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 2:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 14:28:24 -0400

i have been very fortunate in my civilian career to have great supervisors that understand what i do, it also helps to work for the DoD as a civilian. at the same time we need to understand the position we put them in when we leave for duty, especially when we gone for extended periods of time.

Response by LTC Eric Soults made May 21 at 2015 2:52 PM

LTC Eric Soults — Thu, 21 May 2015 14:52:40 -0400

Communicate, communicate, communicate. Give them the "so what" of why you are doing what you are doing. Provide them the details of your upcoming training and the importance of this. Of course it really depends on the culture of the organzation that you belong to. Provide them the plan of action while you will be away on training (i.e. how is the work going to get done and by whom while you are out). Some employers are more supportive than others. We do things like Boss Lifts or be a Soldier for the day where you bring these folks into your Guard / Reserve unit during a weekend. Information operations...

Response by SgtMaj Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 3:05 PM

SgtMaj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 15:05:47 -0400

Some interesting responses here. I just retired after 30 years combined service (7 active, 23 reserve), 11 of those years as a SgtMaj. Very few issues with employers personally or with my Marines. Can probably count them on my hands. More often than not, the blame lay on the service member failing to meet their obligation to inform the employer "within a reasonable amount of time unless precluded by military necessity" as USERRA clearly details. Yes, some employers are jerks about it. USERRA will not change that and while they may abide by the letter of the law, they will not embrace the spirit and intent of the law. With regard to ESGR, useless on the whole... far too conciliatory to the employer. They look for the easy out to make the pian stop; not find a solution. Much better utilizing your command element to make the phone call and have the conversation with the employer if you are unable to resolve it. I never had a situation that was not resolved by direct intervention by the command.

Response by SPC Joe Meisch made May 21 at 2015 3:46 PM

SPC Joe Meisch — Thu, 21 May 2015 15:46:30 -0400

I found through being in the Reserve and Guard 13 yrs. you are best served by educating the person as to the detail of what it means to serve. What it means for the citizen soldier and for the employee or teacher.
I was on federal activation a few times and had been removed from a class at a junior college. The teacher was not cool with me and he was a well know local theater teacher who taught the late Robin Williams. He was arrogant in wanting me out and actually kicked me out of his office. I stood in the hall way with all the other students looking at me after he loudly told me I was out and it was humiliating. I stood at the door looked down the hall and felt maximum embarrassment. Indignation is what I felt for about 10seconds. Without moving from the door I turned my head back to face the door and knocked. He yelled through the door “WHAT” I realized the individual has failed to recognize and take seriously that was serving. I went in and straight up told him you can deal with me right now or deal with the IG. He reluctantly agreed to talk after I told him what the IG stood for. I had to tell him I was stopping looters from taking other people stuff after their house was ruined by an earth quake, helping people obtain health care supplies, clearing roads and moving massive amounts of material for the county, talking with my NCOIC after he helped recover a body and all the other shit I did. And so although you may take and build your machismo by kicking me out and embarrassing me in front of the CLASS! I would always fight to help you should you ever be in need and I am called upon to STOP MY LIFE and serve YOU. SO your choice, what’s it going to be? IG call from me or your call to reinstate me?
I stood tall and proud to walk back into that class that night.
Although I went on to earn my AA from that junior college on the GI bill I could not be at the graduation because I was on AT that summer. Again I was serving.
Educate people as to what you are doing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 4:16 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 16:16:35 -0400

I have found that people know less of the Guard and Reserve and next to nothing about the mission of the guard and how we work for the state and can be called by the governer for state duty. I believer that communication is key when dealing with employers. I have a couple soldiers and if they act at their civilian job the way they don't drill I can see why they have employer problems. On thing I have done is asked the commander for a thank you letter that the joes can give to their employers. one other thing I have been thinking about is meeting their employers in person.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 4:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 16:24:01 -0400

I've learned that when you give your boss or supervisor your training schedule they tend to not pay attention to it. So when it is time for you to do some type of military training they act as if they don't know about. Then I've learned that you should also give your training schedule to your human resources department. By giving your schedule to the HR department it should also stop your boss or supervisor from stopping you from attending any training. The HR department should know the policy regarding military activities and what actions should be taken. That way three different groups have it. That would also mean giving copies of your orders to all three groups as well.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 4:28 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 16:28:02 -0400

Back when I was serving in the PA Army National Guard 2006-2012, I was also attending Wyotech Blairsville Campus in Indiana County, PA, 4 hours from where I was drilling at Fort Indiantown Gap, Annville, PA.
When the recruiter from the school came to my National Guard Unit, he told us that the school was military friendly and that they would work with us when we were having MUTA 6, 8 & 10 drill weekends, Annual Training, State Active Duty, SRP, Pre Mobilizations, Mobilizations, and Deployments overseas.
That claim couldn't have been farther from the truth. It was completely 180 degrees backwards. They would dock you hours and if you hit 25 hours over a 6-8 week time frame you had to start the class all over again.
Dumbest attendance policy ever seen.
I would print out drill and AT schedule from my unit, make numerous copies have them out to those instructors, and different department heads and I would still get no where. Even had an instructor asked me if I wanted out of going to drill.
I took him outside and let him have it. Had to sit him down and explain the reasons why I can't get out of going to drill with everything from being marked AWOL,end up with a bad year on Military record, having my school funding cut, end up with Article 15s, and even an other than honorable discharge. They still didn't get it. They don't understand that when you serve in the United States Military no matter what branch that you are bound by a contract, that you have to be where you are supposed to be doing what your commanders, and NCO'S expect you to be doing by supporting the military mission.
I went through my chain of command, JAG, and eventually my congressman.
I eventually ended up leave because I was getting absolutely no where with them and got sick of dealing with a school that was wasting my time, wasn't honoring my military obligations and was giving me the education that I was there for to begin with.
Now I find out that the company that was running the school (Corinthians College) has been forced to sell and shut down because of false information on funding and graduate rates.
They treated all of us service members who were still serving in the National Guard and Reserves along with the rest of the Veterans like dirt.
We had one VA rep at the school for 600 veterans / service members where we could only meet up with her during certain times of the week because she was dealing with civilian students too.
A lot of us veterans and service members had to wait weeks upon weeks after we were supposed to get our checks from the VA because our veterans rep would wait until the last minute to submit our attendance forms to the VA.
The only reason they were military Friendly was because they were Title I'VE federally funded from Chapter 1606 to post 9/ 11 GI Bill, veterans rehabilitation, and all the other federal money from the military and VA for us to be there.
It was all about the money.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 4:30 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 16:30:23 -0400

For the most part, I've been lucky enough to work in govt/military related civilian jobs so most employers are at least somewhat aware of what Reserves/Guard employees will have to endure during employment. I did have one job that forced me to use my PTO days for annual tour duty. Needless to say I quickly left them soon after. From my experience, as long as the employers are aware of my status and I make it a point to inform them of upcoming time away at least 60-90 days in advance it usually does not cause a problem.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 4:33 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 May 2015 16:33:48 -0400

I encounter this all the time. It's hard enough not being able to get a job because I am An infantryman. The most we have is doing lawenforcment. Ontop of that you have employers that don't hire you just because you're in the Army guard. It just makes no sense to me.

Response by SPC Steven Garcia made May 21 at 2015 6:00 PM

SPC Steven Garcia — Thu, 21 May 2015 18:00:38 -0400

I had 15 years in. And chose to take a guard contract and some money. My AD MOS was downsizing. Bad mistake. Civilian employers and employees are like space aliens to me. I should have finished my 20 years, and then retire off of my retirement pay and VA disability pay. Now the next 10 years is going to be a living hell.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 2:22 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 02:22:33 -0400

How do you handle civilian employers who have no idea how the "citizen soldier" concept is supposed to work? .......Interesting question....My "civilian employer" happens to be the Department of Defense. I work in a Joint Medical Treatment Facility as a GS healthcare provider. You would think that of all the civilian employers "they", the department of defense, would know how the "citizen soldier" concept worked....right? I mean they are THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT who created the laws and protections for the "citizen soldier"...correct?
My supervisors over the years, have always been active duty military medical officer, and my peers have all been active duty medical officers or their civilian equivalent. The vast majority of them have never been deployed, they have never worked six out of seven days, 72-84 hours on average per week nor do they have any intentions to...they live in their happy little active duty bubble working their 6-8 hr work day, 4 maybe 5 days per work week if someone is on leave.

With all that being said I cannot tell you how difficult it has been for me to be an Air Force Officer and a GS employee. My reserve commitment, like so many of the members who have already replied to this post have mentioned, goes far beyond the "one weekend a month, two weeks a year" type of commitment which is to be expected for those of us who hold leadership positions...we all know that.
I go above and beyond letting both my supervisor and the chain of command know what my drill schedule is well in advance. I annotate in the "Request off Book" my drill schedule and projected TDY's at least 12 months in advance if not more, furthermore; If I do have a last minute tasking that comes down that could in any way impact the providers' schedule or the scheduling of my patients my employer is the first to know even before my husband who is now having to juggle his job and all the kids (6)!! .....It still does not matter....they still schedule me to work on my drill weekend, and then insist I find a suitable replacement.....they say "No" "We can't support you going on that TDY" "Your primary responsibility is here at this treatment facility, not your reserve unit". "Our mission is more important than your reserve mission", "Your hobbies (being in the reserves) should not impact or interfere with your job" ...."You should feel "lucky" that we allow you the time off that we do", "We don't "have" to give you time off...you can use your annual leave" These are just a few of the fantastic replies I have been given verbally and Oh yeah...in writing via email!!! To make matters worse (for them) the emails they (my supervisors) have sent containing these fantastic replies are also CCed up the Chain of Command....who have done nothing to correct this behavior thus the corrupt cycle continues. And I know for a fact that I'm not the only reservist in the facility that this is happening to.....Now so far I have only mentioned the difficulties I have encountered just "getting off the time" I haven't mentioned the retaliation I can always count on upon my return...for example: Say I went TDY for 7 days which includes 1 travel day, so that equals 56 hours....they will schedule me to work 80 hours ....24hrs on....24hrs off...every other day over 5 days followed by an 8 hour clinic day...giving me 136 hours total in a two week period, an oh it gets better I ONLY GET PAID FOR 80 HOURS!!!! .....Or how about....."We can't support your reconstitution leave following your six month deployment...you can have 3-4 days off once you get back, but we are going to need you to come in and make sure that you have computer access because you have a full clinic scheduled the following week". ESGR has sent numerous ombudsmen over the years on my behalf and even they have hit resistance. The last one told me I needed to contact the department of labor!! And yet the DOD is perplexed as to why the reserve suicide rate is as high as it is!!

Response by SGT Brian Oxley made May 22 at 2015 10:34 AM

SGT Brian Oxley — Fri, 22 May 2015 10:34:00 -0400

That's a great question as I'm a construction worker in the Union but I'm a soldier first and carry my self as so at guards or at work.
Not our job to understand others or their reason for thinking as they have no understanding about what being a U.S Soldier is as the reason we keep trying to educate them.

What we have is Honor, Pride and Joy of putting on that uniform for they'll never understand the sacrifice we all gave , seen, done and have lost..
Never shall I forget my brother's and sister's, who I've served with on all so many tours, the times of sitting on the back of a MRAP from a 100 mile convoy sharing stories, MRE'S and corcomforting each other from a lost of our fellow soldier.
This something our employers and coworkers will never get or understand as the reason to remember the uniform you put on ...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 11:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 11:35:22 -0400

I’ve experienced the most flack working for active duty military supervisors in the DOD, but it has never been outright hostile. Once I was asked if I was going to resign my position so they could hire someone else for a 3 month training absence, which of course I declined to do.

My civilian federal agency supervisors have always been 100% supportive.

I have heard the the Federal Government has the worst track record for USERRA violations, but it may just be that the government is a very large employer.

Response by SSG Joseph Messineo made May 22 at 2015 12:51 PM

SSG Joseph Messineo — Fri, 22 May 2015 12:51:35 -0400

Despite providing employers all of the information both verbally and written, they seem to outwardly wave the flag while denying those who defend it basic employee rights. I have always worked in public sector as a firefighter, and even those employers violate the laws frequently. While in the ILARNG, I was not able to be hired until after ETS. I had to reassure the fire chief I was not going to reenlist in order to be hired. AFTER 911, I wanted to reenlist and was told I would be fired. This was at the Melrose Park, IL FD. I was told that they had run into this issue before, and I would go broke waiting to get rehired and receive any back pay. When I pushed the issue, they tried to back door fire me by stating I had issues with PTSD, despite never being deployed to a combat area. I ended up leaving departments anyway, and although my most recent employer has officially stated that they could not bar me from reenlistment, they took me aside and pointed out that they could "make my life miserable." Just my experience, perhaps.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 1:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 13:23:16 -0400

Quite recently my employer told me that she needed my post orders and an exemption letter with a DOD stamped letter head when I told her I needed Friday off for drill, hilarity ensued.

Response by LTC Martin Metz made May 22 at 2015 3:30 PM

LTC Martin Metz — Fri, 22 May 2015 15:30:46 -0400

Here is an article by Marine Corps Reservist Zane Jones that may have some useful ponts and perspective: "Veterans of all stripes offer potential employers an outstanding known product: diligent, loyal individuals with an established track record of working with a team to accomplish goals. These savvy corporations have a clear understanding that veterans offer a base set of skills that, with proper workforce training, can transition them from the battlefield to the board room. However, while the benefit of hiring veterans continues to gain traction in the corporate space, the skills and attributes that reservists bring to the table are less understood. Upon my own return from an 18-month sabbatical from banking to join the Marine Corps Reserve, I quickly realized that while most organizations are open and ready to accept transitioning veterans, very few understand where reservists fit into that mix." http://taskandpurpose.com/4-reasons-why-employers-should-hire-military-reservists/

4 Reasons Why Employers Should Hire Military Reservists

The commitment reservists make to their country says a lot about them and the person you could hire.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 4:22 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 16:22:55 -0400

Unfortunately, in my experience the law is worthless. The worst violators tend to be the federal govt. and active duty. A lot of the problem I saw was jealously. I was quite a bit older then a lot of my bosses, but they were out of shape and fearful of my leadership skills. When I was with the post office ESGR and DoL talked the talk but did nothing. Don't even consider being a teachers, those LIBs will hate you. ComTek which is a contactor of ROTC was terrible. I had an Active Duty LTC boss. He deployed once to Kuwait. The cadets and NCOs would come into my office to see my Love Me wall. I had five deployments and did Jump school when I was 44, but to him I was "just a reservist". ComTek is interested more in powerpoint production and how much you can kiss ass to the university. The good news is I knew what to expect, saved my money and started a business slowly on the side. I now own 6 rent houses, four of which are paid off as well as is my home. I work a 15 hour week and next year my retirement starts. Hang it there!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 5:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 17:52:07 -0400

I used to work as a contractor, and my supervisor was in the Air National Guard. Despite that, he seemed to think that the Army National Guard does things the same way. He didn't seem to understand that I can't just ask to be excused from drill because we had a deadline on a part of our project. I made sure the boss's boss knew my drill dates and AT dates, that way I was covered. If they continued to hassle me about it, I'd remind them of legal repercussions.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made May 22 at 2015 11:12 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Fri, 22 May 2015 23:12:11 -0400

Some employers don't get a clue. Not long after I left the military, I applied for a security position within a retirement community. I had the training, experience and knowledge to do the job and it seemed like I was a shoo-in for the vacancy. However, the topic of my reserve status came up and I could tell he had an issue with me being gone one weekend a month. This was due to his policy of having a rotation of people working every other weekend. I explained that I had no problem with his scheduling practices and if I had to commit to working an extra weekend, so be it. In the end, I didn't get the job and I soon left the reserves.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made May 23 at 2015 12:49 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:49:14 -0400

The other side of the coin are Guard and Reservists who tell their boss they'll be gone starting tomorrow and have dropped a big pile on the deck for others to clean up. That tells an employer you're not interested in the success of the company. It only takes a few dirtbags to create a negative stereotype. Don't be one of them. Communicate and work out the in/out transitions to minimize impact to your regular work. That said, there are times some leave now orders were coming over my FAX. I always worked to be able to leave on short notice as that was typical.

I had a senior GS who proclaimed I'd never get promoted because of all the Reserve crap I did. Interesting miscue because the Skipper's and my Flag were the same. That case of Foot in Mouth Disease was cured quickly. Unfortunately, it's rare to have the same big boss on both sides.

We also had a Reserve at work that would be a "dump dirtbag". Having the same big boss spoke volumes. He was invited to retire from the military side.

Response by SPC Daniel Killam made May 25 at 2015 1:20 PM

SPC Daniel Killam — Mon, 25 May 2015 13:20:33 -0400

Is this a real question, or are you expressing your opinion and looking for people that agree with you?

Response by LTC Mark Thaddeus Gray made May 26 at 2015 11:32 AM

LTC Mark Thaddeus Gray — Tue, 26 May 2015 11:32:57 -0400

Wow, where do I start? It always amazed me how uninformed most people where about the military. Even childhood friends and college "buddies" would say the most ridiculous things to me about the army. My first reaction was to offer polite corrections or rebuttals, but I usually got "blank" or uncomprehending stares from my civilian friends.

However, I never considered the knowledge gap between civilians and military (i.e. any person who has ever served in any military capacity for 180+ days), until started talking to employers and human resource (HR) professionals.

Many HR professionals consider military service to be equivalent to leprosy. I have heard uniformed HR people make statement like "All soldiers suffer from PTSD...." or "Do we really want to a trained killer in our office?" or "Employing a ARNG or reservist is a risk because the military may mobilize them at any time, and take our employee away for years." "X was in the army, I guess he couldn't get real job out of high school/college"

But my favorite, and this is the one that nearly drove me to lawyer's office was "You were the top candidate for job, but we needed someone we could count on to be available so we offered the promotion to another employee." My supervisor followed this up with a question, "Why are you still in the US Army Reserve, if you want to do some thing to help you country you could just work overtime at XXX (government) agency?"

So that is my perspective on the problem. Most civilians are completely UN-informed about military service and most view soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen like cancer survivors. Now not to overstate the problem. SOME employers appreciate and recruit young first tour active duty military into civilian jobs, AND very senior military personnel are also valued for their connections and name recognition (e.g. Peterus or McChrystal, etc). However, the perception of value does not extend to the National Guard or Reserves.

Too many HR people, and the employers they advise, view National Guard or Reserve obligations as a big negative, and a dangerous risk. as if the stigma national service and combat experience is not enough; the operational reserve concept (where periodic "active duty" deployments are assumed); along with the proposed reductions in retirement benefits; will further decrease the pool of potential National Guard and Reserve members.

But here is a dose of reality, the number of people who have every served in military in any capacity is small and is shrinking. Most people who join the military do not make it a career. Personnel costs are one of the primary cost drivers of the military, and the number US Government can afford to have at any moment is a political/budgetary decision.

Since I retired from the US Army Reserve in 2011, I have built up a whole new set of credentials, and experiences, and expertise which I can express in terms civilians can understand. Instead of saying I planned and executed Brigade movements from the US to the middle east, I now say that I was responsible for moving thousands of people and tons of equipment to Europe and other overseas destinations. Both statements are true, but civilians understand the second one much better than the first.

In sum, you cannot be angry or upset or even UN-nerved by civilian ignorance. Now I just smile and appreciate the difference between the lives of the many and lives of us few. My feeling today is that Colonel Jessep from the movie "A few good men" had it right about our fellow citizens:

" I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way...."

Think how wonderful it is for civilians to go about each day in blissful ignorance of the real world: Pearl Harbor and 9/11 are historical events that happened to other people; ISIS is far away; and everything you need to know about the military is in the movies, television, internet or in video games. Watch the history channel, view a few movies, play HALO and you too can become a military expert. All you can really do now as soldier, sailor, marine or airmen with your civilian counterparts is to set an example. Demonstrate the values of your service and your life in everything you say and do; respect civilian expertise, but correct any outrageous statements you hear; and lead an honorable life.

Final point, their was a short lived post Vietnam television series called "LOU GRANT" starring Ed Asner. It was about reporters, publishing the equivalent of the Washington Post or LA Times. In one episode, a passionate reporter was pitching a story idea to Lou and the other editors about "How all Vietnam veterans are prone to violence and how most are drug addicts".

Just then one of the editors, who was shy, quite and very diligent, spoke up he said that had served as a combat infantry soldier in Vietnam, and felt that her story premise was wrong. Everyone at the table looked at him and was shocked by his admission. "You were in VIETNAM?" the reporter stammers. "You seem so normal...."

"Yeah. Yeah, I am..." He says "Make sure that gets in your story as well."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 4:27 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 16:27:05 -0400

I have been the civilian employee, the civilian boss, the young enlisted Soldier, and the in-ranks leader. Each position has held its unique piece of the pie in working to ensure both jobs are covered. It is always a constant give and take on all parts.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 6:32 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 18:32:42 -0400

All the time. People ask "National Guard? Is that like the Reserves?" So I just explain the differences and move on. Now, employers who don't understand their requirement to let their employees attend Drill and AT are another story. I once worked for a Police Department that had to get a warning shot from another officer's Reserve unit. Apparently he had drill the weekend after mine (when he was scheduled for work), they didn't make the adjustment on the schedule, and then tried telling him he couldn't go. That wasn't a mistake they made a second time. Also had a buddy of mine who was terminated by a previous employer because of his Guard obligations...that worked pretty well in his favor.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2015 12:46 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 May 2015 12:46:23 -0400

While my experiences since transitioning from active duty to the Army Reserve in summer 2001 have been up and down, there's one civilian employer I cannot sing the praises of strongly enough: my current employer - Booz Allen Hamilton.

With some companies, being 'military-friendly' is little more than lip-service, but BAH walks the walk. It's so much more than just lip-service. They get it, and they go above and beyond in accommodating reserve service members.

I'm holding on to this civilian job as looooong as I am able.

Response by SPC Steven Garcia made Jun 13 at 2015 10:43 PM

SPC Steven Garcia — Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:43:44 -0400

I'm lucky, all of my supervisors, and most of my fellow employees are ex-military, or pro-military.

Response by SSG Clyde Rainey made Jun 19 at 2015 3:19 PM

SSG Clyde Rainey — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 15:19:12 -0400

I did a long time ago when I was a U.S. Army Reservist. I had a good employer but I kept getting laid off. What eventually happened is that I went full time Army and got a better job and more stable future. I was really fortunate at that time. I am retired now. I would not know what to do if I had go through what you mentioning now. You are protected through ERG plan but I don't know the specific regulations.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2015 9:38 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 21:38:37 -0400

We encounter this daily in Europe. Just educate them. I talk with my Soldier's employers on a regular basis.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2015 9:37 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 09:37:57 -0400

I found this to be an interesting article....happens at the Federal level too....
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/16/playing-army-military-reservists-with-dea-jobs-say-agency-bosses-ridiculed/?intcmp=latestnews

'Playing army': Military reservists with DEA jobs say agency bosses ridiculed their service

More than a dozen senior DEA agents are accusing the law enforcement agency of discrimination due to their military service according to interviews and court documents obtained by Fox News.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2021 3:03 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Aug 2021 15:03:47 -0400

Sadly I think it comes down to how your supervisor is. I work in the VA and my previous supervisor was the worst when it came to anything with military duty. She was provided copies of drill schedules and half the time when I’d put in leave she would ask me for orders even after explaining to her that IDT is not active duty training, does not have orders, and is still required.

Things are light years different now at my new job in the VA, but sad I had to constantly contact the union and HR to explain to my power tripping supervisor that sorry she was not in charge of the Army reserves too.