How do you handle the cultural shock of transitioning from military service to civilian employment?

CPT Jack Durish — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 12:19:27 -0500

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/12/31/more-than-100-muslim-employees-fired-after-walkout-in-demand-of-prayer-time-289752
What these Muslim employees attempted to do isn't so very different from what I've seen former military members do when they enter the civilian workforce. The same issue that got these Muslims fired can get you fired: Culture Shock.

I well remember the young men who served in my commands dreaming wistfully about what they were going to do when they got back to "the real world". Sadly, their expectations were sorely out of whack with reality. The civilian world has uniforms, SOP's, routines, and a hierarchy just as does the military. However, they're all different, very different, and former military members would do well to lie low and scope out the situation before they plunge in and try to change it.

How do they try to change it? Funny but they typically try to reinvent their civilian workplace into a verisimilitude of the military one they just left (in many cases the very same one they were recently complaining about). Again, can you see the similarities with what these Muslims attempted to do?

More than 100 Muslim employees fired after walkout in demand of prayer time | BizPac Review

About 150 Somali-Muslim employees of a Colorado meat processing plant were fired after they walked out on the job, demanding prayer time, and refused to return. Approximately 200 employees at Cargill Meat Solutions in Fort Morgan staged the walkout, demanding various blocks of prayer time throughout the day, but a small number returned, according to …

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jan 1 at 2016 12:33 PM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 12:33:48 -0500

In regards to the story: While I am not necessarily defending the Muslims demanding prayer time, they were allowed it at one time yet the policy was reversed. However, when they arranged their "No call, no show, walkout" they did deserve to be fired.

I do agree that it was a bit of a culture shock when I first got out of the military. Though it was somewhat softened since I was working for a defense contractor and the contract I worked on was a quasi-military environment.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jan 1 at 2016 12:42 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 12:42:08 -0500

Typically there's a "reasonable accommodation" aspect when it comes to time off for religious needs. I believe an issue can come up wherein you have a continual production line and the number of employees demanding the same time off during the day (a few times perhaps) cannot be accommodated in a reasonable manner. 150 and likely more at once isn't workable in those work situations. I've had Muslim employees who wanted prayer time who were glad to extend their work day to get their job done while taking time out for prayer. That was an office environment where you typically could pick up where you left off.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 1 at 2016 1:02 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 13:02:54 -0500

My wife and I were talking about this yesterday.

Here was what we got from a different article.

200 employees, 2nd shift (afternoon shift from our understanding). Official policy (in effect for several years) on Prayer breaks had not changed. However that does not mean that "Unofficial" policy had not.

First shift showed up. No problems. Second shift no showed. 3 days in a row. Company had tried to work with them in regards to the issue to make reasonable accommodations.

What "I believe" happened. Second shift would take them through Sunset, which is a variable time for Prayer. This would make the "reasonable accommodation" significantly more difficult to accommodate. If I have my prayer times correct Sunrise (variable, but before 1st shift, no impact), Mid-morning (not variable), Noon (not variable), Mid-Afternoon (not variable, pre second shift), Sunset (Variable). This created a "Burden" on one shift, but not on the others, hence the issue.

Now, that doesn't necessarily explain the walk out.

What "I think" happened was that Policy had been enforced in one way up until a specific point, and then began being enforced more "strictly" or just "differently" at another. What Home Office sees is not necessarily what Branch is reporting.

But... culture shock is a hell of a thing. My biggest thing was having "multiple bosses" who didn't report to each other. A "non-hierarchical" system. Drove me batty. Absolutely hated it. Decided I didn't want to work for that company and found a company that had clear delineation.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 1:09 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 13:09:52 -0500

CPT Jack Durish what a great analogy to transition and assessment of proper execution. One of the areas constantly being critiqued in Corporate America is culture. And, finding the right "fit" between employee and employer. And, so much of culture is based on "attitude" which is invaluable in life.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jan 1 at 2016 2:06 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 14:06:31 -0500

Unions are like that. You shouldn't make threats you are not willing to carry out and then live with the consequences. I cannot imagine veterans pulling a stunt like that.

Response by SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury made Jan 1 at 2016 3:06 PM

SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 15:06:03 -0500

I think I had time to prepare. Many years before I retired I had one of civilian employees make a comment that "most prior military have problems on the outside because they think thy can still act like they did in the military." It took me years and a lot of thinking and observation to see what she had been talking about.

When I was preparing to retire I had to go into a civilian job search knowing that regardless of my experiences and education that I was less knowledgeable about life in the civilian work force. It makes you a hybrid "entry-level" to some regard. I had to educate myself on that and found some excellent mentorship away from the military machine. This was the building blocks from which I prepared for retirement.

I chose to avoid the civil service work force, even though I looked at job openings. I sought a life away from the military and military base after I hung up the uniform. I had proven myself successful in the military and wanted to do so away from it - as far as possible. It wasn't that I resented it in any way, but that I wanted to prove the growing number of people who believe that Veterans cannot make it on the outside wrong.

While it has been different, I had some good mentorship from many great people and a wife who is a Veteran as well. While there have been highs and lows, it's all in what you want. I chose and have embraced the life I wanted - and now have. It's a great thing.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 5:13 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 17:13:02 -0500

I keep seeing this theme. I would say call on your experience. You have just completed a tour where change was constant. You changed assignments, you changed jobs, you changed where you lived, You were promoted and given new responsibilities.

Call on that and enter civilian life the same you you fulfilled these changes in your life.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 7:00 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:00:32 -0500

Just going by what the article describes, it sounds like the employer was not very smart about this. I wonder why after all this time they made the change to the enforcement of the policy? Could it be pressure from anti Muslim people who don't think it's right to allow someone any sort of religious accomodation at work?(unless it's for Christians) I mean, after all, the company even had a prayer room set up. If it's about a 5 minute break, I wonder if they are going to stop smokers from taking smoke breaks throughout the day? I've worked places where smokers can't make it to their scheduled breaks without a cigarrette, so they all go outside to the smoking area and puff away for 5-10 minutes several times a day. Yet no one seems to complain about that accomodation.

I think there must be something else to this story than the article indicates. But in general, in the civilian world, employers do things to accomodate employees often. Ever read about all the things Google does for its emloyees? How about the whole concept of flextime to accomodate people with kids? If the company has hundreds of Somali workers doens't it make sense to accomodate them? So I suspect there was something else driving this change than just the fact that they need prayer time.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Processing plants like this typically pay very low wages, and are staffed with immigrants who can't find higher paying jobs. I wonder if there will be lots of people flocking to fill those 200 positions? It reminds me of the plant in either Alabama or Georgia, I'm not sure which, that couldn't staff it's plant after the state made stricter laws about undocumented immigrants. Many of the workers left, and no Americans were willing to do such hard work for such little money.

Response by SFC Dave Parker made Jan 1 at 2016 7:35 PM

SFC Dave Parker — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:35:26 -0500

If they want prayer time in our culture, they need to buy their own company and schedule prayer time. Or, just assimilate into our culture. Take it, or leave it. We are not a muslim culture, nor do we intend to ever be a muslim culture.

Response by CW3 Dylan E. Raymond, PHR made Jan 2 at 2016 2:46 PM

CW3 Dylan E. Raymond, PHR — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 14:46:54 -0500

I say start from the beginning when you we t from the civilian sector to the military, that was certainly a culture shock going to basic training. So you adjust the military did not adjust for you....you adjusted if you wanted to be there. So I agree with PO2 Madison it has to do with attitude think about it when you leave the military you are more of an asset to the civilian organization because of your service and experience the key is to learn how to package it and communicate to an employer how you are going to solve their problem. They do not quite understand what you bring to the table so that is the key learn how to package it and communicate it.

Also when you deploy the military will give you cultural awareness training so that you know how to navigate the culture, So bottom line is to start preparing for not transitioning from civilian to military think of it as reentering to the workforce. If you serve 1 day or 20+ years you will reenter the workforce or you decide to stay with comfortability and stay with state, city or federal because of familiarity with the military. So the issue is not whether you are muslim, christian, a smoker its all about learning that culture once you learn it then you decide if you want to work there or not

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 2 at 2016 7:05 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 19:05:15 -0500

If you have questions about ETS or Retiring, it is best to answer them while you are in service. If you have problems remembering things it might behoove of you to take your spouse to the ETS briefings. Fill of journal of all your skills, deployments, responsibilities, accomplishments to the out-process center to work on your resume. Network with buddies. Find corporations that hire veterans. Learn about the USA Jobs site. Learn about Resumix if it is still used.

Response by James Adair made Jan 3 at 2016 6:01 PM

James Adair — Sun, 03 Jan 2016 18:01:45 -0500

from what i understand it is a shock depending on what your MOS was if you were a mechanic and became a civilian mechanic the change shouldn't be a that bad aside from the sensitivity you might face I.e sensitive little bitches

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 11:45 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:45:12 -0400

I'm NG. The biggest problems I'm facing is that they don't really care what experience you bring to the table. By this I mean my fellow management, not my crew. I think I've absorbed my military leaders way of doing things. It allows me to be engaged with my crew and when correcting something to use it as an opportunity to teach.

My management team however is more keen to just yell (in a disrespectful manner) and write people up and fire them rather than work on improving the crew member with guidance and training. I've voiced my concerns about this and have pretty much been told, "Well you're used to being yelled at in the military." Yes and no. I've never seen an NCO or Officer yell at anyone for unnecessary reasons and not try to correct the problem.

My situation is due to bad leadership in my opinion. I think we can transition fairly well into regular employment but it's going to take time and patience. I have the benefit of being NG so unless I'm on AT or deployed then I'm able to work with my employers regularly but I do think Civilian employers have trouble understanding our habits or ways of doing things.

Response by SrA Chris "Shadow" McGee made Sep 6 at 2016 12:36 PM

SrA Chris "Shadow" McGee — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 12:36:37 -0400

Go back 18 years and fight harder against the med board that put me out so that I could have finished my 20........

Response by SGT James Murphy made Apr 13 at 2020 3:00 PM

SGT James Murphy — Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:00:14 -0400

Great Article Cpt. Durish. In my case, it was a pretty quick transition because I was attached to ASA (Dates Me Pre-1973). We were already acting like civilians in-country so taking the plane home and getting to drink real milk etc that was the only shock I experienced. Uh... Except for getting spit on. I kind of remember that and always will....For the rest of my life.