How do you help a financially irresponsible soldier?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 03:25:27 -0500

I'm trying my best to juggle personal tasks and my soldiers but it's been tough being able to focus on both. It seems I'm always missing something. I currently have three soldiers and one of them is damn near broke a week after payday. He's E-4, makes around $930 after taxes/TSP every two weeks. We've been through a company finance class, in-office class and the SM has had a visit with the finance CTR in our unit all within the past six months. Somehow he ends up with no money before his next paycheck... I have counseled him on managing his finances and to write a report on what he spends once a week but I somehow feel he's not telling me the truth. That he's lying about what he's really buying or paying for.

Being a fresh NCO, I'm still not sure of my limits when it comes to finances nor am I the type to get into one's financial privacy thus why I trusted him to write me an accurate weekly report. However, something isn't adding up and I would like to get to the bottom of it. If it's really necessary I don't mind taking a look at his bank statements and view his credit card statements over the past few months so that I can come to my own conclusion. Is that allowed or stepping over the line?

He only told me of his balance when I asked the other day, during his monthly counseling beginning of the month he was fine. No expensive car, no major purchases that I've seen...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2022 4:39 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:39:11 -0500

Just protect yourself, and line up your ducks that you did the right thing.

There are those that are going through life with insufficient financial education, and plenty of businesses willing to take advantage of that. That is the population of folks I am more than willing to go out of my way to help set on the right path, and educate toward a sustainable personal financial plan.

Then there are those that want more in life their means allows them, and you are not going to be able to do anything about it.

The military, places on your shoulders the burden of your subordinates' incompetence and irresponsibility. You as a leader can only extend so much help. You have no obligation to ensure this soldier succeeds past that help.

When the axe fall from a result of this solider failing you want to be in a position to deflect that axe toward the next level up from you in the chain of command.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2022 4:41 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:41:28 -0500

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I served a long time ago and will let current service members offer advice. It sounds like you are an excellent NCO. Many folks have problems managing their money. During my civilian career, I would hold brown bag lunches where I would help women co-workers with the basics of money management.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2022 5:07 PM

SP5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 17:07:11 -0500

SSG Private RallyPoint Member You are to be commended for the effort you are putting out to help the troop. Great model for an NCO. However, you have other troops to manage as well, so your time is finite. Keep a good balance, and when you are at the end of your resources to help, get the COC involved for their input and guidance.
A thought comes to mind - this troop is spending around $60 per day. Can't eat or drink that much - gambling could be one outlet for the money. Good luc.k getting the issue resolved

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Feb 10 at 2022 6:28 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:28:05 -0500

It seems you are doing well at what you can do for the soldier. Obviously he's had the check writing classes and how to balance his account. The only other thing I would suggest would be for him to get a Debit Card so that, say $150 a week, would be deposited every week. At the end of the month the rest to be placed in a saving account not on the post but maybe at his home-of-record. When the debit card was empty - no more $ until the next Monday. I say Monday because if it was Friday there wouldn't be $ there after the weekend.
I would emphasize that you can't make those decisions for him. If he does choose to follow that regiment then he could still change it whenever he wanted/needed (after counseling with COC) but would have to go to the bank to do so. The money at the other place saving account would be more or less out of sight/out of mind.
Best of Luck. Recommend this action be briefed to your COC so when he starts complaining (I expect him to do so) you are protected from the IG. The only alternative may be to discharge him - which probably isn't in his best interest. Sounds like he just needs to mature.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2022 6:46 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:46:55 -0500

You've done everything you could do. Trying to help him build a budget and control spending is going an extra mile. I would add that you need to stress to the SM that they're at risk of losing their clearance

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Feb 10 at 2022 11:07 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 23:07:11 -0500

Is there any debt or is this just a simple task of a mismanagaed pay check?

The money is going somewhere. Whether it’s the strip club, girlfriend, liquor store, gambling, child support or something else the money is going somewhere. If it becomes a large issue it could result in them losing their clearance. I had a similar issue where a Marine of mine was taking advantage of people and loaning money and never paying them back. He evidently had 3 cars with only one of them working. Tried to get him to reduce his costs but there was always an excuse. It got to the point where people were calling the office wanting money. Even a retiree loaned him $350 at the hobby shop on base trying to help a Marine out.

The kid refused to manage his money so he ended up losing his clearance and was transferred out of the section as he couldn’t work there anymore.

The Command asked me why he shouldn’t have a clearance and I said if a guy rolled up with a lunchbox full of 20’s and offered to make a trade for intel I didn’t have enough confidence that he would do the right thing.

Do what you can to work out direct deposits to pay his bills on time but eventually he has to make the decision to grow up or he won’t.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Feb 10 at 2022 11:08 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Thu, 10 Feb 2022 23:08:15 -0500

That was my room mate back in the day, completely upside down with a massive alcohol problem. A SSGT took him under his wing, straightened him out , he was basically forced to re-enlist because he needed the bonus money to get himself above water. I had great Sr NCOs, everyone one of them imo walked on water and would do anything legal to help a younger Marine in need. Great Marines, but Greater men.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Feb 11 at 2022 8:05 AM

SPC Steven Depuy — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 08:05:36 -0500

I always kept enough for smokes, a haircut, and laundry, but my pay was gone by Sunday apart from that. Its part of being young and not thinking past today. If I had it to do over, I would have gotten rich lending 10 for 20 on payday, which the ones who were smart with their money did back then.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2022 8:59 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 08:59:17 -0500

I'm doubtful of you being able to by order look at his personal bank statements, as the Army already has issue with personal belongings and orders. That said the Army does have regulations on financial responsibilities.

I would try and key your SSG and PSG in if this issue continues and show that you have attempted to aid the Soldier via counseling and suggestions. Another step might be to have the Soldiers signed up for additional finance classes, though whether they listen or not is up to them.

Another option is to eat with your Soldiers as a group at the DFAC. Forces the individual to eat at a place already being provided for less expense, and of course give you the opportunity to talk as a group and build the NCO relationship. I suspect, and I have been guilty of this myself, that your Soldier is nickel and diming his paycheck away by eating out and visiting the shoppette instead of meal planning, etc. It does more hurt on your wallet than you realize.

It's impossible to be there 100% of the time, you have additional responsibilities and of course your own time needed to de-stress, but if the issue becomes worse you want to show that you did what you could with what you know.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Feb 11 at 2022 3:56 PM

PO1 Lyndon Thomas — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 15:56:19 -0500

As a former Navy financial counselor. My honest answer would be "You Can't". Simply put, you can do everything possible by the script, and even toss in some personal advice, assistance, and more. Truth of the matter is, you can't help someone who doesn't Want to be helped.

Response by PO1 Lyndon Thomas made Feb 11 at 2022 3:59 PM

PO1 Lyndon Thomas — Fri, 11 Feb 2022 15:59:15 -0500

If his issue causes problems with him preforming his duties. A hardship discharge would be the only option. If he refuses to manage his finances, he'll only become a burden upon his unit. That, is unacceptable. The "One Bad Apple" will have to face harsh judgement and punishment. The Unit Must go on!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2022 8:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Feb 2022 20:49:11 -0500

As an NCO you cannot force a Soldier to provide private financial information, however you can offer to go through it with the individual Soldier and make suggestions on where they can trim the fat. I have personally done this for one of my Soldiers who was on the brink of being evicted and having their car repossessed. But I must stress the fact that if they choose not to they absolutely cannot be forced to do so, however seeing as you are a signaleer I would assume that your Soldier is as well and therefore has a security clearance to consider as well. Financial difficulties is one of the quickest ways for someone to lose their clearance. Good luck. Also feel free to seek guidance from your NCO support channel as well, your Platoon Sergeant and 1SG are amazing resources that should be utilized as I am sure they have had similar experiences throughout their careers.

Response by SPC Zoe Jane Halo made Mar 11 at 2022 9:11 AM

SPC Zoe Jane Halo — Fri, 11 Mar 2022 09:11:15 -0500

Life as a parent and sibling has taught me to follow the money. When the money has no trail then it’s probably going to things it shouldn’t. You might have a high functioning addict or alcoholic on your hands.