How do you legislate equality?

PFC Jim Wheeler — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 20:26:58 -0400

For those that think we can, how do you do it?

There are a lot of people who believe we can do better about making sure people are treated equally, but how do you make that happen? Is it even possible? Any opinions welcomed here, although I would like it to stay civil if at all possible.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Oct 30 at 2016 8:39 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 20:39:37 -0400

Government can't legislate equality. That is the natural/God-given right of every person. (Just to be clear, we are talking about equality under the law, equality of opportunity) Nor can government legislate that all people will treat all others equally. Prejudice will always exist. It is an undesirable though innate quality of human nature. It is up to people of good will to insure that their government treat all citizens equally and stand against those who act on their prejudices. Sadly, we don't teach this lesson to our children anymore, least ways not in school. Take bullying for example. Children used to know how to handle bullies. Now they're not allowed to. The teacher will do it for them and they're punished if teachers fail to take care of the problem for them. Thus, children learn to wait for authority to take care of their problems for them and grow into adults expecting the same from their government.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 30 at 2016 8:49 PM

SFC George Smith — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 20:49:13 -0400

the more you try to force some one to do something they less they will like it...

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Oct 30 at 2016 8:50 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 20:50:26 -0400

Your cannot legislate equality for the simple reason that people are not equal. You can legislate equality of opportunity and equality of treatment under the law but past that it cannot be done. People are not the same intellectually, physically or otherwise. No matter what you are discussing some people are superior to others and no one is superior in all areas. Normally when the government attempts to make people equal it does so by tearing down those at the top of the scale to benefit those at the bottom and it never works.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Oct 30 at 2016 8:51 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 20:51:28 -0400

It's totally impossible to govern and treat everyone the same. There are just to many factors and it's not always racism.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 30 at 2016 9:03 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 21:03:13 -0400

First, let me ask you a question....

Equality of Opportunity?
or
Equality of Effect?

As an example. Two boxers get in a ring (Equality of oppurtunity). One gets his tail handed to him. The following night the other boxer doesn't get to deliver a beatdown (Equality of effect).

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Oct 30 at 2016 9:05 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 21:05:24 -0400

I am just curious how you achieve quality in a merit system based on a Free Enterprise Market Economy. If you think about it, it is a ridiculous goal that will never be achieved on planet Earth. It sells good to the electorate though and thats why it is an issue in this election.

Response by Col Rebecca Lorraine made Oct 30 at 2016 9:12 PM

Col Rebecca Lorraine — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 21:12:02 -0400

Good question. We teach children and raise them to be good neighbors, good citizens and know that life isn't always fair. Education is the key to understanding history and human behavior. We hold everyone accountable for their behavior. If they break the law or are not civil or respectful, we should avoid them and not empower them. We treat others as we would have them us and our families. We recognize when we are being judgmental and prejudiced towards others. We use our voice responsibly. Government has the responsibility for looking out for the health and wellness of all Americans. We have asked and demanded that our governments (state and federal) provide us with security, certain entitlements and the rule of law and management of our tax money. Unless we coalesce on the foundation of our republic including amendments to the constitution. We must believe and the rhetoric is so divisive now we are talking about the equality of Americans. One American- One Vote. Children learn from their parents first, friends second. Raise them right.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2016 9:17 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 21:17:32 -0400

Outside the enumerated powers and Bill of Rights, the states and the people are supposed to be self-governing. Knowing that socialist and republican forms of government are not equal, how can anyone who has sworn to defend the US Constitution support any candidate who supports anything not resembling the founding documents? Centralized government is foreign to a Representative Republic. Equal opportunity will not ever equate to equal outcome because people will either work hard, innovate or stagnate. Those who chose not to to work or innovate will stagnate and it is their own damned fault if they never try or get up when they fall.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Oct 31 at 2016 9:21 AM

MSgt James Mullis — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 09:21:33 -0400

The best a government can do for equality (without becoming dictatorial) is equal treatment under the law.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Oct 31 at 2016 10:03 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 10:03:52 -0400

You can not legislate equality. That is an impossible task no matter how hard you try. The only equality we have is we each have the opportunity to shape our own destiny for richer or poorer.

I've heard the arguments that we need a 50/50 split in diversity in jobs in order to be called "equal". The problem with that is our population bases are not at a 50/50 split. Let's use the black/white populations for example. The black population totals 13-15% of the entire country. So if we started in one corner of the Country and started dishing out the jobs in a 50/50 split, eventually we would run out of the black population to fill those jobs.

The same can be said with any minority group. I've heard we need more trans in the military. The trans population is 0.3% of the entire country, while the people who serve in the military typically make up 1% of the population. So do we sit idly by and disqualify fully capable volunteers until a trans person is interested in joining???

We have all been given the opportunity to choose whichever career path we want. It is no one's fault that a woman would aspire to be a kindergarten teacher while a man aspires to be an architect. You can't legislate to force people to choose jobs they don't want.

We have members of the black population in the highest positions of power. We have women in politics, running companies as CEOs. We have the LGBT in the military now and at one point in time we added women to our ranks.

My wife is currently in college getting her business degree... not a typing course... a business degree.

I honestly don't know how much more equal we can honestly get. I mean let's be serious here. Let's all crack open a history book and see how far we've come as a society. Our Country is only 240 years old. Some Countries have existed 2-3 times longer than we have before they gave up their slaves or gave their women any form of rights. We may not be the best Country in the world, but we're pretty darn good when you see how far we've come.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2016 12:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 12:48:56 -0400

Making it illegal to discriminate based on race, age, gender, sexual orientation, religion or ethnicity is a good start.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Oct 31 at 2016 12:53 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 12:53:31 -0400

Government can legislate equal treatment under the law. It can enforce such law as necessary. We cannot change the hearts of people by legislation; however, providing a society where equal treatment under the law is common and expected sets a norm that can be communicated to children through their parents, teachers, and religious institutions. Unfortunately, we have taught too many of our citizens that unequal outcomes are unequal treatment under the law and they are victims.

Response by SPC Makissa Lewis made Oct 31 at 2016 12:56 PM

SPC Makissa Lewis — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 12:56:38 -0400

I don't think treating people equal makes sense. Since, they are groups of people operating at a deficit. The video below comes to mind.

https://youtu.be/vX_Vzl-r8NY

The Unequal Opportunity Race

Short film for the African American Policy Forum, showing metaphors for obstacles to equality which affirmative action tries to alleviate. All graphics and a...

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Oct 31 at 2016 2:39 PM

1SG Al Brown — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 14:39:03 -0400

Well, our American legislative ancestors wrote up a Bill of Rights and it was a good start. However, there wasn't real equality, so legislators added amendments that included protections and the enforcement of civil rights for discriminated women and others. Lastly, and lately, we have legislated against discrimination in a number of areas from sexuality to lack of mobility. That's were we're at right now in America.
The problem of legislating with the goal of equality, is that equality doesn't really exist beyond the general definition. To wit, protected classes receive additional benefits to "level the playing field", yet equal people compete for limited resources. Equal means becoming good or bad, rich or poor, based on equal opportunities but unequal choices. We may be equal in the eyes of God, but equality stops the moment each equal citizen makes a daily life decision, from investing hard earned savings to throwing the dice down the green table in Vegas.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Nov 2 at 2016 11:48 AM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 11:48:18 -0400

Check out Harrison Bergeron. Short story by Kurt Vonnegut. That's how you do it.

Response by SFC Dennis A. made Nov 2 at 2016 6:41 PM

SFC Dennis A. — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 18:41:35 -0400

The government can not regulate equality. It takes people that are caring and ethical.

Response by PO2 Sybil "TT" I. made Nov 3 at 2016 3:14 AM

PO2 Sybil "TT" I. — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 03:14:23 -0400

All's we can do is try to level the playing field a bit where we find extreme inequalities. But, the reality is no one is born equal. We're all dealt a set of cards (race, wealth, intelligence, health, ect). Some hands are better than others. All's we can do is play the cards we have to the best of our ability, and try not to step on or bankrupt anyone else in the process.

Response by CPT Fred Ehlers made Feb 9 at 2021 12:15 PM

CPT Fred Ehlers — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 12:15:08 -0500

Hmm. Someone mentioned Equality under the law and Equality of opportunity. Methinks thou art confused. They are not the same, although it appears people equate them in their minds and discussions. You can legislate equality under the law. However, that opens up a can of worms into what laws are equitable, what laws are just (again "equal" does not the same as "just"). One can never ever in a billion years legislate equality of opportunity, unless we are willing to remove all children from their parents at birth and raise them in a central location, all with the same teachers/mentors/parents. That's a statistical and physical impossibility, given the number of children - at least until we fully develop an AI technology.
Having said all that, what does "equality" mean?? Who decides that? Does that mean the decision maker is somehow "better" than you or I and therefore superior, which is not at all equal.
To this I also ask - who decides when an addict or alcoholic has had enough and joins AA and "gets right"? If all this "legislation" is already out there to keep you from making a bad decision like drinking excessively or using, why do people do it? If all this help is out there, why can't you "legislate" sobriety? Take it a step further, if we can't legislate sobriety, how do we legislate health?
The answer is, of course, you can't; and despite people's knowledge of the outcome, they will still decide to do something harmful. If we can't legislate all these "good" things, what makes one think we can legislate "equality"? In all the previous examples, it's a personal choice - what makes one think equality isn't a choice too?