How do you recognize symptoms of PTSD & also foster a successful post military career?

Capt Brandon Charters — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 18:34:57 -0500

I've heard this question from both military families and recruiters working in industry who enjoy hiring veterans. To put it into a professional context, how would a civilian recruiter be able to recognize the symptoms and best facilitate a job seeker through the employment process and beyond?

If a recruiter identifies someone that exhibits symptoms, should they be doing something more than just cordially speaking with the candidate and talking about future opportunities?
Would a private venue versus an open job fair interview be best?

Joseph Wong - Thanks for providing this context: "I met a soldier last week and am working with one today that both exhibit PTSD symptoms. One couldn’t speak to us eye to eye and kept drifting his gaze to the crowd, he was pretty nervous. The other drops off the radar for weeks at a time and doesn’t call the recruiter back, or answer emails. When he does, he is still very interested in the job."

What would be your advice in facilitating this near term interview process and also mentoring these veterans after being hired? Thanks in advance for your help in answering these questions.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 6:47 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 18:47:57 -0500

You know it when you see it. They always stare past you.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 8:24 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 20:24:19 -0500

I think that every case will look, feel and behave differently. I often try to coach potential employers on PTSD and what it usually is....and what it isn't. Foremost I tell them that it often doesn't result in violent or dangerous behavior (this is a HUGE concern for civilians, mostly based on pop-culture and media). Unfortunately, in many professional settings, if the hiring manager or recruiter doesn't have a good experience from a disengaged applicant, they likely won't be advanced in the process. To add, laws prevent recruiters or hiring managers from asking questions that would identify PTSD or any other condition.

In the workplace and in interviewing, like any other disability, we have to be careful how it is addressed so that someone isn't feeling excluded, singled out, discriminated against or having their rights violated. In the military, this is a bit different...a bit more direct.

In some cases (outside of the military, or in the workplace), and much of this is un-tried, un-tested and un-documented, mentorship or sponsorship is a good start. Creating a professional contact for that person to lean on (preferably someone who has "been there and done that", like another veteran) is a first step. Setting ground rules and expectations is also key. The mentor and protege both have to realize the "contract" of the mentorship, which might include addressing apparent issues and information that isn't being openly volunteered. If one or the other parties isn't willing to be open and honest, the mentorship may not be effective.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Feb 3 at 2015 8:44 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 20:44:13 -0500

Great thread brother. I'll respond if I ever land a post-military job...lol.

Response by MAJ George Hamilton made Feb 3 at 2015 9:27 PM

MAJ George Hamilton — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 21:27:26 -0500

I am not the least bit qualified to know the difference between what is PTSD, and what is just pure nervousness in learning to deal with the civilian world. With that being said, if I did feel strongly that the Veteran I was talking to was suffering from PTSD, I would most likely do the following -

1. Take a pause in the interview (grab coffee or something similar)
2. Start a conversation that put us on equal ground as combat Veterans
3. Try to make a more informed assessment based off of that interaction
4. If I was convinced he/she was in real trouble, I would offer my personal number, and ask that they give me a call to talk after the conclusion of the interview, and then help them out as a fellow Soldier.

Doing anything at your place of work in trying to help or make this assessment is fraught with risk and legal peril. I would always encourage my brethren to help as much as they can - but don't put your co-workers at risk in the process.

This would be a very difficult situation to navigate in a productive way for sure.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Feb 4 at 2015 12:06 AM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 00:06:11 -0500

I think all we can do is talk to our employers and make them aware that PTSD is not what Hollywood portraits. It is our jobs as Veterans and Active Duty/Reservists to educate the public sector. It is sad, but with all things, normally the struggle pays off in the end!

Response by Joseph Wong made Feb 4 at 2015 9:07 AM

Joseph Wong — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 09:07:27 -0500

Hello, I was one of the people posed this question to Brandon. Since I am a civilian, it is hard for me to post to the RP forums.

I understand that PTSD takes on many forms and is a very deep, individual experience; so there is not one process to govern all of our reactions from the corporate perspective.

However, if we can be more sensitive to the needs of all Vets, I am all for figuring out if there are better ways. For example, a couple of weeks ago, we were at Ft. Hoods Mega Hiring Event. There were thousands of attendees and hundreds of companies. Like all job fairs, we were set up behind an 8 foot table and trying to conduct high level conversations with interested soldiers. I noticed some of the soldiers seemed very uncomfortable: lack of eye contact, trying to face the crowd, etc.

Here are my questions to Vets and any other with relavant experience: What can we do differently? The job fair format won't go away, it is something that has been done before we had computer based submission. Do we try to find/rent a more private space? Do we try to orient our table differently?

We are trying new ideas to open doors to those who are uncomfortable in such large settings, with the help of companies/forums like RallyPoint, we are open to trying new ideas.

As a follow up, if I speak to someone who is demonstrating distress, or stress, is there anything I can do?

I deeply appreciate any insight and can use the help. Losing 20 veterans a day is a staggering loss and the more we understand, the better.

Response by MAJ George Hamilton made Feb 4 at 2015 11:19 AM

MAJ George Hamilton — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 11:19:28 -0500

I feel this bears repeating -

None of us are doctors, and the symptom range of PTSD is huge. As a matter of perspective, the VA is finding that a large percentage of those they thought had TBI (mood swings, insomnia, short-term memory loss) are actually suffering from PTSD.

It is absolutely not in your best interest to try and address this in any kind of professional capacity. You must do it away from your employer as a private citizen. I know this sounds harsh and uncaring, but the potential negatives of trying to address someone you think might have PTSD in a professional environment far outweigh any good you may do.

We have an obligation to take care of our brothers and sisters in arms - but we have to do it by getting them to the right places and people, not thinking we can fix it ourselves.

Response by LCDR Mike Roshaven made Feb 4 at 2015 8:05 PM

LCDR Mike Roshaven — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 20:05:39 -0500

I would like to be more aware of how to recognize signs of PTS (I refuse to label it as PTSD- others can and that's fine). I was a Cold War Navy guy, and so never had contact with anything close. I've been in military recruiting for a while, and have not experienced most of the symptoms mentioned below. However what I have learned is that PTS is not limited to military- emergency responders, assault victims, or just a witness to a person getting hit by a bus- civilians experience these things too, and to just label vets as those that suffer from, and pose a threat as a reult of PTS is wrong- flat out wrong. It is not a disorder, not a threat to the civilian workplace, and not something that should be held against a vet looking for a job. Just the fact that they are trying to be active in theri job search should speak volumes about their recovery. I also feel confident that in most cases, PTS is treatable, and accomodations can be made in the workplace for those that have more difficulty with their treatment.
Perhaps we need some 'experts' in the field to let us know what to look for, what are facts, what are fallacies surrounding PTS.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 9:03 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Feb 2015 21:03:05 -0500

Have to say the squeaking wheel gets the grease. You have to accept the regular civilian probably hasn't even seen full metal jacket let alone have a brain cell of care that we fought for there rights. I have even ran into former service people Vietnam era that don't think we have served. War is what it is and its not natural to see the things that happen. Its best just to listen and only talk about things relevant to the job. I don't have pstd as a diagnosis but the VA says I have 95 percent of the symptoms. I do feel like people want to kill me if a debate erupts. So I may say things yell etc that could cost me my job. Every room I am in generally look whats a weapon what it coverage how quick to exit etc. Problem is we can't turn our mimds off like the typical brainless civilian. I am always thinking if something goes south what to happen. Training maybe I call it paying attention to your surroundings. As far as eye contact I say look there chest or something. Not directly in the eye as most will say try to. To me eye contact pisses me off personally. Just my .02

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 11:10 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 23:10:03 -0400

These are all good responses overall. I see from all perspectives. Addressing this condition in a professional environment like Maj George Hamilton said, it is not something that should be addressed during an interview, especially as it can apply towards a discriminatory action against the employer. I would suggest that people continue to educate themselves regarding this condition and seek the right places and the right resources as Maj Hamilton said.

Those of us who have suffered from this condition should really just stay focused on getting better before searching for a job. You can't be any good to the employer if you're not strong and focused and ready to work. Trust me, I know!

Response by CPT Bruce Rodgers made Jun 10 at 2015 3:26 PM

CPT Bruce Rodgers — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:26:31 -0400

Ok, that is not an easy question, but I will try.
PTSD presents differently in almost every case, but there are some general symptoms that can be found in the DSM. That being said I hate the DSM because it pigeon holes everyone into a box. I work extensively with anxiety disorders like PTSD and the symptoms are very similar to other anxiety problems.

So what might look like PTSD might actually be AAD. Like I said before I hate these labels and try to treat the individual.